View Full Version : are bootlegs illegal?
RadioMaster
24 Jul 2008, 11:26
Dont scream NO yet, read my post first ;)
We had a discussion on this last night:
My point of view was that bootlegs are only illegal when you sell or buy them. Would it be legal to trade/pass them on then?
As far as I know the main reason why MLUKFC doesnt approve bootlegs (correct me if I'm wrong) is that Meat Loaf himself clearly stated that he doesnt approve them. But would it legally make a difference if he did?
Loads of other artists dont have a problem with bootlegs being traded. So would their fans still do something illegal?
It's another point that bootlegs are recorded illegally (see the signs at the venues), but how about those recordings which were published officially? Speaking of radio/tv broadcasts here. Would this still qualify as a bootleg? I think that in these cases the copyright is another issue...
My point is that a bootleg actually is the creation of the person who recorded it (same as photos), so the copyright would lay with them, right? it should be their decision to pass them on or not?
Im very confused about this subject...
AndrewG
24 Jul 2008, 11:36
It's why bootlegs are often a grey area. Recording the show is indeed illegal but trading shows for free is not something that people can do much about. Perhaps if you were to offer shows for download, especially on a large scale they would hunt you down. But then I think they are much more interested in protecting copyrighted studio material.
Look at Bruce Springsteen, every show since the early 70s has been bootlegged and traded. He knows there's been bootlegging of his concerts / studio material since 1975 but he hasn't done much to stop it and I doubt it has harmed him financially.
Pudding
24 Jul 2008, 11:42
Pearl Jam did the right thing ages ago and started selling their own bootlegged concerts. I'm sure Meat Loaf offered to do this years ago.
Pud :twisted:
AndrewG
24 Jul 2008, 11:52
Pearl Jam did the right thing ages ago and started selling their own bootlegged concerts. I'm sure Meat Loaf offered to do this years ago.
Pud :twisted:
Yeah he said so in Jan 2004 that we would get all shows for each city.
The Pearl Jam approach is the best as they still make money out of it and we get the best quality then. It wouldn't take too much effort to post every show in mp3 format on Meat Loaf's website, even if they included some horrible copy protection I would want it. If he did I def would pay the $40 subscription a year.
I'm sure Rainer will explain this better than I can as he has a better understanding of the issues and how they affect mlukfc.com.
As I understand it, it's a complex legal issue that is made more complex by the varying laws applicable in different countries around the world. This site is hosted in Germany and the laws around this issue are much more stringent there than many other countries.
I know of a number of Springsteen bootleg sites that have been closed down over the years and Bruce himself was in courts in the UK a couple of years ago to fight the release of some very early bootlegged Steel Mill material.
Meat talked about offering the sound board recordings for sale during the CHSIB tour I think, as I remember it, it was a one off comment that he made on here, and as with many things nothings ever come of it.
Here a little provocating question:
Why aren't there any bootlegs of 2008 out?;) Or for 2007? Seems for the 80s and 70s are more available...
Theortically, nowadays it should be easier to record something with a mp3 player.
I go sometimes to the record/CD shows run here...the place is FULL of bootlegs...in fact, it's mostly bootlegs of everybody and anybody...still a legal show with wide advertisement and all...confused the hell out of me first time I went there...
Julie in the rv mirror
25 Jul 2008, 10:00
It's why bootlegs are often a grey area. Recording the show is indeed illegal but trading shows for free is not something that people can do much about. Perhaps if you were to offer shows for download, especially on a large scale they would hunt you down. But then I think they are much more interested in protecting copyrighted studio material.
Look at Bruce Springsteen, every show since the early 70s has been bootlegged and traded. He knows there's been bootlegging of his concerts / studio material since 1975 but he hasn't done much to stop it and I doubt it has harmed him financially.
Hi folks!
I'm a newbie here, so I don't want to overstep my bounds here... but I spend a fair amount of time on a Springsteen board where this subject has come up, so I feel as though I may have something to add.
To answer some of the questions/ comments here, it definitely is a complicated issue. The way I understand it (I'm not a lawyer) though, is that technically, it is illegal to even posess bootleg recordings, whether you sell them or not. Would you get busted if you're just collecting and/or trading with other fans? Probably not. If you're selling them, maybe.
There is also a difference between pirated material, which is an unoffical copy of an official release, and a bootleg, which is for example, an audience recording of a concert. The poster who stated that the person who made the recording has the copyright is correct; however, distribution rights is a separate issue.
Different artists have different viewpoints toward boots. The Grateful Dead, for example, allowed taping of their shows. Bruce, while not exactly condoning the practice, has pretty much looked the other way as long as stuff is not being sold. His (bootleg) stuff is available free on several sites, and he has not made an effort to stop them. The live show recordings don't seem to bother him as much as studio outtakes, which have gotten out in the past.
In answer to the question about whether fans would do something illegal- the answer is yes. However, I get the feeling form the board I frequent that most fans (Bruce's anyway) have no issue with downloading a boot for free, but will pay for official releases as a matter of principle.
Julie in the rv mirror
25 Jul 2008, 10:05
It's another point that bootlegs are recorded illegally (see the signs at the venues), but how about those recordings which were published officially? Speaking of radio/tv broadcasts here. Would this still qualify as a bootleg? I think that in these cases the copyright is another issue...
Radio and TV broadcasts that are recorded "unofficially" by a fan are still considered bootlegs. Some of the most famous Bruce boots are of radio broadcasts from '78.
AndrewG
25 Jul 2008, 10:20
Radio and TV broadcasts that are recorded "unofficially" by a fan are still considered bootlegs. Some of the most famous Bruce boots are of radio broadcasts from '78.
Those ones are excellent. 7/7/78 in Roxy,LA is terrific.
Perhaps Meat is keeping all these recordings in a vault for release during his pension. At least I hope we get quite a few more live shows from throughout the years. I'd love to have a high quality copy of a full 1988 show and also some of the shows I've been to myself of course.
Pudding
25 Jul 2008, 11:16
I doubt that many people will care much about a shows recording several years after the event. He'd have been better pretty much releasing a recording as soon as a show is finished via his website to get maximum sales through maximum interest.
The Meat Loaf shows I went to see I'm not really interested in hearing them again several years after, had the recording of the shows been avaible shortly afterwards, then I'd definitely would have bought them, because I was still in the moment.
Pud :twisted:
Julie in the rv mirror
25 Jul 2008, 18:43
Those ones are excellent. 7/7/78 in Roxy,LA is terrific.
:D Yes, they are! People often debate which one is best, but it's splitting hairs...I like Winterland 12/15/78.
Julie in the rv mirror
25 Jul 2008, 19:02
I doubt that many people will care much about a shows recording several years after the event. He'd have been better pretty much releasing a recording as soon as a show is finished via his website to get maximum sales through maximum interest.
The Meat Loaf shows I went to see I'm not really interested in hearing them again several years after, had the recording of the shows been avaible shortly afterwards, then I'd definitely would have bought them, because I was still in the moment.
You might be surprised... Bruce has had some "legendary" shows that people still listen to and talk about long after the fact. But, maybe the Bruce community is unique ;) (Most peeps think we're crazy!)
Although, it is really cool to have a recording of a show you have been to. I have a few boots of Bruce shows I have seen :D And they are usually available very soon after the shows. ;)
BjornParee
28 Jul 2008, 00:18
If there would be any bootlegs of concerts of Meat Loaf that he would sell than I really would buy this (if the quality) is ok. CD's are nice but live concerts are my real favorite !!
RadioMaster
28 Jul 2008, 09:28
I think most fans would buy them, especially as it's not too hard to get them ready, as he records every show anyway.
What Id love to see would be something like LATW 2. A collection of the best live tracks of his career.
Pudding
29 Jul 2008, 02:45
I think a lot of fans would buy the recorded show pretty much straight afterwards, but a couple of years 'after the event'? I don't think many will both at all.
Pud :twisted:
djfierce
29 Jul 2008, 18:12
yep i agree, of course you have the so called 'collectors' who will buy everything but personally it doesnt mean the same if i wasnt there or a few years later.
I think a lot of fans would buy the recorded show pretty much straight afterwards, but a couple of years 'after the event'? I don't think many will both at all.
Pud :twisted:
Hmm Would you Buy the RAH soundboard if it were sold after a Casa concert?
It's been two years but with it's quality shows like that or the London Excel concert would be terrific no matter if your in the moment or not.
RadioMaster
11 Aug 2008, 23:05
that only applies to a) people who have been to the show or b) people who know a lot about Meat Loaf's concerts though, and I think the market just inst big enough to justify a release.
geordieloaf
11 Aug 2008, 23:12
Hmm Would you Buy the RAH soundboard if it were sold after a Casa concert?
It's been two years but with it's quality shows like that or the London Excel concert would be terrific no matter if your in the moment or not.
I was at the Excel and i wouldn't want to hear a recording of the show!
As a whole show it was great but vocally wasn't, if there were to be release's of this tour i would say Nottingham (from what people have said i wasn't there) or Castle Howard which was vocally excellent would be the better one's to go with.
I agree that if your at a show it would be nice to listen back to it but random recent show's wouldn't really interest me.
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