PDA

View Full Version : It don't mean a thing ....(if it ain't got that Jim)


dottie
18 May 2003, 14:42
Go buy Classic Rock - Where Legends Live
May 2003 Ģ3 30p

IN A NUTSHELL -" Meat himself has successfully fought the flab, but this album could do with a visit to Weightwatchers" - you seen the general tone :x of this review

Quote "Like Laurel and Hardy and fish chips, some things are just meant to come in pairs. Unfortunately for mighty Meat Loaf, his other half doesn't always want to play ball."

Quote "Meat never quits, although the remainder of the album does. "Tear me down" is a horrible rock'n'nroller, and there's a horrendous live "Bat out of Hell" tacked onto the end.

I was absolutely furious at this review :evil:

Quote "He would anything for Jim, but he won't wait seven years between albums"


Reveiwed by Jon Hotten (This man talks out of the back of his a..e)

Ben
18 May 2003, 14:51
GGGGRRRR :evil:

Tim
18 May 2003, 14:53
That is not a nice review. Very hard.... but maybe there is some truth in there.... (i know i'm making enemies right now). But let's face it, an album that is made without Steinman is not such a great album.

The Butcher, tim

dottie
18 May 2003, 14:56
GGGGRRRR :evil:

I quite agree - I'm still :x as hell.

Jon Hotten needs to be sent "Back into Hell" where he belongs

Quote "He finds writers who approxiamte Jim's style, and gives it all he's got. It never works" :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:

Ben
18 May 2003, 15:00
Go buy Classic Rock - Where Legends Live
May 2003 Ģ3 30p

IN A NUTSHELL -" Meat himself has successfully fought the flab, but this album could with a visit to Weightwatchers" - you seen the general tone :x of this review

Quote "Like Laurel and Hardy and fish chips, some things are just meant to come in pairs. Unfortunately for mighty Meat Loaf, his other half doesn't always want to play ball."

Quote "Meat never quits, although the remainder of the album does. "Tear me down" is a horrible rock'n'nroller, and there's a horrendous live "Bat out of Hell" tacked onto the end.

I was absolutely furious at this review :evil:

Quote "He would anything for Jim, but he won't wait seven years between albums"


Reveiwed by Jon Hotten (This man talks out of the back of his a..e)

if you ask me i think that its narrow minded reviews and self centered people like Jon Hotten who stop ablums getting the reconision (sp?) that they deserve and stop them getting to no.1 in the charts.

dottie
18 May 2003, 15:00
That is not a nice review. Very hard.... but maybe there is some truth in there.... (i know i'm making enemies right now). But let's face it, an album that is made without Steinman is not such a great album.

The Butcher, tim

Tim if you read the complete review believe me you will be madder than hell - Shall I type it up :??:

Tim
18 May 2003, 15:02
Still very strange, in some Dutch music magazines, Meat Loaf is portretted very good. With a new come back... 4 stars for the album... titles like "he came back, and how" and all that stuff.

So don't botter, reviewers don't know nothing about music and writing. They have had no education hahaha :lol:

Ben
18 May 2003, 15:02
if u dont mind dottie, please. :D

aussielovesmeat
18 May 2003, 15:09
Yes, please type the rest dottie
I'd like to see the rest of what this brainless idiot has written :x

Aussie
xxx

dottie
18 May 2003, 15:25
Steinmans irregularity is commercial sucide for a garralous man like Meat.Jim can't hit a record company schedule, he can't write three-minute tunes.A zealous perfectionist, he is unable to delegate. So nimble are the forgers fingers on the opening, seven minute CHSIB that one is hard pressed to say that it is not one of the great mans songs. Wondeerful performance from Patti Russo, Only the smallest details , a line that doesn't quite scan, a clumsy chord crash before a piano break - give it away.Its as good as this record gets, though- this is a long record.What the songs lack are Steinmans cleverness and attention to detail, his lyrical puns and inversions are always a joy, his use of musical motifs and phrases always beyond mere effect.
Meat never quits but remainder off the album does.Forever Young is surely a Michael Bolton parody, dripping in squishy schaltz. Meat remains a terrific singer - no one does quivering, unfullfilled lust quite like he does - and a marvelously baroque stage character.. But he is at the whim of another mans music and there is no escaping it.

Had to edit this as it is so long.

heat
18 May 2003, 15:35
:evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:

D'ya think we should organise the lynch mob now??? :wink:


Heat
xxx

badger
18 May 2003, 15:46
Forever Young is surely a Michael Bolton parody, dripping in squishy schaltz

This shows how much this 'reviewer' knows about music then.

I do agree that nothing can ever compare to Steinman, but that doesn't mean that nothing else can be good.

greg
18 May 2003, 16:07
i must say i like about 5 tracks of the new album nobody gets as hurt as me when they start having ago about meat loaf than me. but i must agree with tim, nothing will ever live up to jim steinman as far as i am concerned, good album , but i know the meat laf fans are really waiting for bat 3. i know you might all be waiting to have a go at me now , but thats my view :?

Asha
18 May 2003, 16:12
I agree with Badger, Steinman writes great music and lyrics, and meat can sing them like nobody can, but i've heard a great many songs that have become classics and are performed great that are not steiman's or meat's.

So were does this reviewer get off with this nonsence. I think he believes every song should be ABABCB, 3 minutes long or else it's not music!!!
I get the idea that he thinks without steiman meat cannot make darn good music.......WRONG!
Totally.

Anyway my 2 cents....
Asha

Tim
18 May 2003, 16:12
:evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:

D'ya think we should organise the lynch mob now??? :wink:


Heat
xxx

Oh oh... Heat... just breath normally... don't think stupid or strange things... keep away from the knives... :lol:

original sin
18 May 2003, 16:18
Just picture a stream flowing gently through the valleys......The sun is shining and the breeze is blowing the long grass making it whisper sweet melodies.......

Meat's music will be played long after these reviewers are worm food!!!

Asha
18 May 2003, 16:21
Well said Original Sin.....

I'm wondering is he even listened to the music...
and not just to the arrangements, lyrics and so on.

To rate any music you should al least once JUST listen to the music....
Sit back, kick of shoes, relax and listen to it ALL......and not the pieces/parts of it.

Renegade Angel
18 May 2003, 16:30
Im with Tim and Greg on this one.
I consider myself a massive fan of Meat's and im totally behind the album, single, tour ect, but I think that most fans would prefer an album of Steinman material and that is what the reviewer is saying that the new album is great but as far as the music press is concerned a Meat Loaf Album without Jim is not as good as some of Meat's older material.

I actually Love this new album as I have done with every other Meat album but you've got to remember that the press will always give their own opinion and if they don't like the album then they are going to to knock it.

jcmoorehead
18 May 2003, 16:53
I think the point is. This is a great album but reviewers won't let it be good because Steinman had nothing to do with it.

mariella
18 May 2003, 16:56
Hi Dottie,

Furious!!! :evil:

Know there are a lot of narrow minded people out there. This is definately one of them. Sorry for him though, if you write like this, don't think you are a very happy person. Too bad for him..

Please tell me one thing, did he also say the bit that it don't mean a thing if it ain't got that Jim? Hope not, because that would be very disrespectful.

Well, of to throw some (old) plates on the floor as hard as I can, be back soon 'my happy self'!

Mariella

greg
18 May 2003, 18:12
well said ren angel i would like to say i got a reply from meat loaf when he was on line on bbc radio 2 that this tour will be a mix of chsib & old stuff so i am well pleased with that

dottie
18 May 2003, 19:13
:evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:

D'ya think we should organise the lynch mob now??? :wink:


Heat
xxx

YES! This is one of the most biased reviews I have ever read, usually I let this kind of thing pass me by - but I was furious - to read the complete review (which is a full page of bile) sickened me. Can I tie the noose please :!:

dottie
18 May 2003, 19:17
Forever Young is surely a Michael Bolton parody, dripping in squishy schaltz

This shows how much this 'reviewer' knows about music then.

I do agree that nothing can ever compare to Steinman, but that doesn't mean that nothing else can be good.

This is why the review infuriated me so much , that fact that the complete review is very long and time and time again the writer draws comparisons between Midnight, Welcome to the Neighbourhood. Blind before I stop etc., in fact all the albums which were made without Jim.

dottie
18 May 2003, 19:21
i must say i like about 5 tracks of the new album nobody gets as hurt as me when they start having ago about meat loaf than me. but i must agree with tim, nothing will ever live up to jim steinman as far as i am concerned, good album , but i know the meat laf fans are really waiting for bat 3. i know you might all be waiting to have a go at me now , but thats my view :?

Greg this is precisely what I was so cross about - Jon Hotten completely disregarded Midnight, Welcome to the Neighbourhood etc., as not worthy of Meat - But us Meat fans wouldn't be true fans if we didn't accept that artists need to spread their wings musically wise.

dottie
18 May 2003, 19:22
Just picture a stream flowing gently through the valleys......The sun is shining and the breeze is blowing the long grass making it whisper sweet melodies.......

Meat's music will be played long after these reviewers are worm food!!!

Well said Original Sin :D

dottie
18 May 2003, 20:01
I think the point is. This is a great album but reviewers won't let it be good because Steinman had nothing to do with it.

Verily so

dottie
18 May 2003, 20:05
Hi Dottie,

Furious!!! :evil:

Know there are a lot of narrow minded people out there. This is definately one of them. Sorry for him though, if you write like this, don't think you are a very happy person. Too bad for him..

Please tell me one thing, did he also say the bit that it don't mean a thing if it ain't got that Jim? Hope not, because that would be very disrespectful.

Well, of to throw some (old) plates on the floor as hard as I can, be back soon 'my happy self'!

Mariella

Yes Mariella thats the actual title of the article which is very long

mariella
18 May 2003, 20:41
Thank you Dottie, whoever wrote this should go wash his mouth with soap right now. He is a fool who doesn't know what he is talking about.

So, what do we do? Lynch this guy, or ignore him?

Might be better to ignore him, won't have any plates left if I give this another thought.

But if you guys should decide 'to go after him' I am with you!!!

Mariella

coupe-de-ville
18 May 2003, 21:26
I actually picked up this magazine in the supermarket and read the article whilst I was stood there. The things he was saying, really got me annoyed. Why must some reviewer compare every album to Bat 1 etc, every album has its own unique sound and CHSIB sounds fantastic to me.

Chris
18 May 2003, 21:55
Just bear in mind that when the magazine publishes its lists of the staffs' record collection/all time faves etc etc, Meat never appears there. I suppose that when these people have made their minds up that they do not like an artist they then close their minds to all other possibilities.

Also, if people are anyhting like me (whcih very few people are thankfully!!) Ask yourself how many times you ahve heard 1 bad song by an artist and it has put you off that artist for a while??

Having said that, pass me the shotgun folks, theres a varmint needs shooting!!!!!!

Rob The Badger
18 May 2003, 22:44
Hey, long time no see for me. But I thought I needed to say something.
Music critics are only doing their job.
Now, this review is not biased. He has a point. Meat Loafs non-Steinman albums are always lacklustre when one compares them to the likes of Bat I and II and even Dead Ringer. Not to say that these albums are bad, but Steinman's albums are so good, that they fail in comparison. Now, the purpose of a review is to inform the consumer. What he is trying to say is to people who have never bought a Meat Loaf album. He's saying, don't buy this, buy Bat Out Of Hell. And I totally agree.
Now, the problem lies then in finding another rock songwriter as good as Jim Steinman, and you'd be hardpressed to find one, that leaves you with a sense of Steinman wannabe albums, which always end up not making the grade, in comparison to Steinmans albums.
Of course, I do agree that to continually base ones opinions on an artist soley in comparison to the greatest album they ever made is narrow-minded, there are some valid points.
And of course, we as fans are biased to some degree.
So I say, read reviews by guys like Stuart Maconie.
If you want to read unbiased music reviews, go to www.q4music.com, or buy the mag.
Amyway, I have a great deal of respect for the music press, and it irritates me when people get the wrong impression.
Sorry.

mariella
18 May 2003, 23:43
Hi Eyore,

I haven't read the whole 'review', not going to either. But I think it is VERY disrespectful to say 'it don't mean a thing if it ain't got that Jim' no matter 'how funny' this may have looked to him.

To suggest that anyone who has never bought a Meat Loaf album should buy Bat, is really saying, well Meat is only doing something worth listening to if Steinman wrote the songs. I think this is absolutely ridiculous.

I usually just ignore 'bad' reviews, the only reason I even bother to react to this one, is because I feel it was disrespectful.
All other negative reviews (and even this one) serve a purpose, people talk about the album. And I really don't think they have that much influence if people buy the album or not. People can listen for themselves..

Great day to you,

Mariella

Michael Marxen
18 May 2003, 23:50
Most of the comments here donīt do the review justice.

1. It is the biggest featured review in this month classic rock (two full sides wit the picture), which means good promotion anyhow.
2. It rates the album "Good" (3/5)
3. It shows deep inside knowledge of the world of SteinMeatmusic.
4. Many things said are true IMO, like that it is Meats best non- Steinman-album or the mentioned fillers (Do It and Because Of You).

Although the review does not share my enthusiasm about CHSIB at all, I was actually pretty satisfied when reading it.

ChrisBelfast
19 May 2003, 01:44
I was annoyed at this review in parts too. But before we comment its only fair to look at both sides. Yes the review had negative points, but it had good too, id rather focus on them. "His best attempt yet" and also " Meat remains a terrific singer" " And a marvelously baroque stage character." It then gives the album a "Good" rating(3/5)
I think this review is getting at the song writers, not Meat.

By the way there is a 1/2 page advert for BOOH 25th Anniversary in the mag. Q magazine also has a 1/2page add for CHSIB.

Meanwhile, go vote for Meat as the best live act on Rolling Stone Magazine online
http://www.rollingstone.com/survey/dynamic/default.asp
You need to type him in the “others” box as he isn’t one of the acts already listed!

Finally Meat is in this months FHM magazine

ChoccyBat
19 May 2003, 01:51
Eyecore:

The reason we get wound up with a lot of the music press - but by no means all- is that they seem to have something against meat, something which physically prevents them from saying anything good about him. I mean go back to Bat 1 - he was absolutely SLATED and called the worst rock artist in the world - FACT! - yet now the press are saying that Bat 1 is fantastic and the only album of meats we should listen to!!! And that is only because it is one of the top 3 selling albums of all time. They are very fickle, and continue to slate this album in some quarters despite the fact it went in at number 4 and is still in the charts at 16.

None of us are biased enough to think this blows Bat 1/2 out of the water, but if you strive for perfection you are always dissapointed. Anyway, they slate him for not being as good as Steinman and then when he produces something excellent like the Single CHSIB, they say he is just doing a JimItation!!! The guy can't win!

Anyway its the public that counts and the sales of the album and tour dates show what they think of him!!!

ChrisBelfast
19 May 2003, 01:55
One thing tho, ive read british magazines for this month with meat reviews in them and they all LOVE Love you out loud, i think it wasQ Mag, must check, that had it as the highlight of the album. So if meat needs any ideas for the next single, this one is very popular even with the critics.

Kat
19 May 2003, 01:59
Hey he's entitled to his opinion!!
"Come writers and critics who prophesise with your pen...."







yeah I know I can't spell

ChrisBelfast
19 May 2003, 02:03
3. It shows deep inside knowledge of the world of SteinMeatmusic.


This was good to see, at least the reviwewr did his homework before casting an opinion, unlike many other reviewers. He knew things about Steinman i dint know - that he couldnt drive!!??

mariella
19 May 2003, 09:59
:lol: :lol: :lol:
So, Jim can't drive a car.
Yes, very important detail.

Great day to you,

Mariella

ChrisBelfast
19 May 2003, 13:29
he knew a background of meat and jim albums, he knew of pandorra box, amonst other things, all im saying is at least he took the time to research. How many reviews have u read that does that? By the way the driving comment was a bit of humour

mariella
19 May 2003, 13:52
Thank you for making me laugh, Chris.
And you are right, at least he did some research.

Great day day to you,

Mariella

Rob The Badger
19 May 2003, 15:51
Some critics are terribly overbiased sometimes...and I do agree that is disrespectful to say things like this, I don't think any harm was intended.

Renegade Angel
19 May 2003, 20:36
The music press have always had it in for Meats music, although Q magazine did give CHSIB a pretty good review and they gave a great review to the Bat 25th Anniversary.

Anyway Good subject to discuss, well done to Dottie for starting it off.

dottie
19 May 2003, 21:47
The music press have always had it in for Meats music, although Q magazine did give CHSIB a pretty good review and they gave a great review to the Bat 25th Anniversary.

Anyway Good subject to discuss, well done to Dottie for starting it off.

Thanks Renegade Angel

tbuck
19 May 2003, 22:11
Yes dottie, glad you brought this up.

This is the review I referred to in an earlier thread, thought it was worthless so didn't go much further than to post this fact- in the text of this CHSIB review, Jim is mentioned by name 16 times and Meat 15 times.

The reviewer is using the release of CHSIB to praise and laud Jim, not to actually review the album. Very poor work on his part. JMHO

T

MBrevard
20 May 2003, 01:17
Hi, Terry! Thanks. I hadn't realized this was that same article. No wonder everyone is up in arms!!!

The Steinman website posted a copy of it a couple weeks ago or more and I was infuriated by it then! Of course, THEY loved it. It's all about Jim--not Meat!!

This is NOT a case of unbiased reviewing by any means! It was obviously written by a Jim fan who can't see Meat beyond Jim. And what a shame that is because there is SO MUCH MORE to Meat Loaf than just Jim Steinman!! It's not that I don't love them together because, like everyone else here, I do! But Meat has so much more to offer than just that pairing.

It's just TOO easy (and totally unfair) to dismiss albums like CHSIB or Welcome to the Neighborhood because of Jim's lack of involvement. Plus, it's a total cut of Meat's talent and creativity, as well as his ability to select the songs that are good for him, right for him--ones he wants or needs to sing!!

I know that a lot of you feel the same as I do about this particular debate--but I suppose we'll be having it from here to eternity. It's just so unfair AND inaccurate to dismiss Meat and HIS contribution(s) to every project he's been involved in!!! It's infuriating and maddening, isn't it??!!

And I know, as the album after this one (you know, the one we're NOT talking about until next year :roll: ) gets closer to completion, these kinds of discussions are bound to get more heated and devisive.

I love Meat. I love Jim. I have absolutely NO PROBLEM enjoying their work together, as well as the works they have continued to do individually. As far as I'm concerned, it's good for partners to go off and do other things, because when they DO come back to each other, they have new things to bring to the mix! It's healthy! It's an expansion of horizons. How can that NOT be good for everyone concerned???!!

For the life of me, I just cannot understand why there must be this 'competition,' this animosity, this rivalry that the fans set up between them! I've tried to understand and to take the history of the two into account. But it's still feels SO senseless and such a waste of time and energy!!

Love to all,
MB
xxx

sherrie87
20 May 2003, 04:14
Preach it, MB!!!!

Sherrie

Fire Ball
20 May 2003, 04:39
I agree with MB, Eveyone in the band has had words with that site ,We have never understood them. Do not understand that site.

Meat

Dave
20 May 2003, 04:50
I agree with MB, Eveyone in the band has had words with that site ,We have never understood them. Do not understand that site.

Here! Here!

I have given up on them a long time ago. It is very sad to see someone tell you in an AOL instant message they LOVE the album, but cannot say so in a public forum because they are worried about who they would offend. Do they not care they offended me by saying this. I have lost a couple online friends over this album. It is worth it! I would say this is SIMPLY THE BEST product Meat Loaf has ever put out that is a collaboration of many different songwriters. Each and every song is perfect for the completion of the "feel" of the project. It might be just me, but this album was meant to be listened to as a "whole," not a portion at a time. When you haul one song out of the mix it takes away some of the perfection of the "piece."

ROCK ON FIRE BALL!!!
CANNOT WAIT TO SEE YOU IN IOWA & CLEVELAND!!!

MBrevard
20 May 2003, 05:28
Thanks, Meat!! :oops:

Love you,
MB
xxx

cerysmeatloaf
20 May 2003, 10:30
omg ive just read the review im a bit mad no sorry im a lot more than mad this person doing the review doesnt know what he is on about

sorry i have to change the subject a sec cos i have some grate news my 2year old daughter could never say meatloaf she sayes milky but omg today she said meatloaf it was so sweet

ChrisBelfast
20 May 2003, 12:42
If the classic review rocker loves jim so much then we should expect a 5 star review of bat 3 from the way he goes on.

The jim website is simply jealous in my opinion, as much as i love jim as well as Meat, the jim steinman following knows that Meat can do a job without Jim (Welcome to the neighbourhood and CHSIB) where jim fails without meat (Bad for good). Also meat then had some of jims songs from bad for good on bat 2 and by him recording them, they became hits eg Rock and Roll Dreams.

I have read reviews of CHSIB, like classic rock, with negative comments in them, but there was good ones too which in my opinion far outweighs the bad. Never yet have a saw a rating lower than 3/5 which is the equivalent to "good". So congratulations Meat!

I also read of the mailing list that CHSIB has gone gold aleady, maybe Meat could confirm it for us.

Finally, my dad was in a shop yesterday and was telling the girl who worked there that he was going to see meat at the Belfast odyssey for his 50th Birthday. She said she'd only started listening to Meat through the new album she had bought, and which she loves. She now calls herself a meat fan! So a new following could be emerging..... Then again about 20,000 people have helped sell out both meats belfast shows - now if 20,000 go to a concert, why can't a record company only print 5000 singles. But thats dead and buried for now!

Oriel
20 May 2003, 18:02
Fireball,
There's one main difference between this site and the Jim site - we don't kiss Jim's a.ss everytime he farts. If anybody says a bad thing on this site, s/he couldn't show their face again for weeks.
But on the Jim site however, opinions and free speech are encouraged.
There is constructive criticism and, sometimes, downright disapproval.

Of course - I'll be honest, I bought CHSIB, of course I did. I feel that the first half contains strong songs, but then the latter half sounds like B-sides (Do It!?)
But, at the same time, I will say the same thing about Pandora's Box.

Fireball, I hope you continue to check into the Jim site from time to time. It's one of the best communities out there. We have sung your praises aplenty. And yes, we have critisised aplently. I thought you'd have gotten used to the ups and downs by now.

Please see past the surface...

Sinecure.

mariella
20 May 2003, 19:54
It's always very confusion for me if two people have the same avatar.
But "I got it' now, don't worry, Shane :lol:

Great day to you,

Mariella

The Flying Mouse
20 May 2003, 20:00
It's just plain daft to constantly talk about Jim in a review of CHSIB.OK,a nod of the head and a quick comparison to Bat is inevitable,but this is beyond me 8O .
Jimmy and Meat have done their best work together.But they have also done great things away from each other,and both deserve recognision for this.
It would be just as unfair to rant about Meat in a Steinman review as it is to rave about Jim in a Meat review :evil: .To constantly try and force them into each others shadow is wrong,unfair and an insult.

This bull.... caused a lot of trouble between Meat and Jimmy years ago,not through any fault of their own,but rather by the propoganda fed to them by the people around them.The record company only wanted to focus on Meat,then they were telling Jimmy he didn't need Meat.With preasure like that EVERY DAY is it any wonder that bad feelings crept up?
Luckily,they were both able to grow past this,see this crap for what it was,and get back to doing what they do best.I have enormous respect for them for being able to do that.
If they can do it,why can't the reviewers and the fans do likewise.

As for ... kissing,hey if free speech is your bag,all power to you,but the way I look at it is that we have been lucky enough for Meat to join us on these forums.How long is Meat going to visit us for?What do you want to say to Meat?What would you want to say to Jimmy?These are the guys we've followed for years.Why,when you have a once in a lifetime chance like this to actually talk to one of them,would you want to concentrate on bad stuff?

Here's a test.
You get to say one sentance to either Meat or Jim.
This is the only thing you will ever be able to say to them.
Which one would you say...
(a)I love your work.
(b)That song on this album isn't very good.

Think about it.


My 2 cents :mrgreen:

badger
20 May 2003, 20:49
It's always very confusion for me if two people have the same avatar.

lol, that got me too!

It is a great shame that artists often get labelled if they have a major success early on and then diversify. All to often reviews try and compare. Why does something have to be rated against something else? Surely you can listen to an album and say whether it is good or bad etc without always likeing back to something else? It seems that it is more down to poor reviewing.

Eveyone is entitled to their own opinions, including the music press ( :oops: ), and I guess you just have to hope people will make up their own minds.

Anyone else here think CHSIB rocks? :wink:

mariella
20 May 2003, 22:06
Yes Badger, I do :bunny:

Very good to have you here,

Mariella

Shane
21 May 2003, 02:08
There's one main difference between this site and the Jim site - we don't kiss Jim's a.ss everytime he farts. If anybody says a bad thing on this site, s/he couldn't show their face again for weeks.

I don't think we kiss Meat's ass here either. I don't know about others, but if I say something, I mean it. There are differing opinions here too, believe it or not.

Of course - I'll be honest, I bought CHSIB, of course I did. I feel that the first half contains strong songs, but then the latter half sounds like B-sides (Do It!?) In some ways though, it is different (on the surface), but if you look below the surface (as you suggest we do), you will see that it is a great song for Meat.

I disagree, especially re "Do It!". You should see Fire Ball's (Meat's) post on the subject. I think that song is very much him. It might not be `Jim', but it's Meat. I think this song will end up becoming one of Meat's most underrated. Not every song has to be an "Anything For Love" or a "For Crying Out Loud". Jim and Meat have commonalities but also differences. I have read reviews which say or imply that albums and songs are never good without Jim, which is a totally unfair comment to make. You can't compare an apple with a bus (as Meat has said here).

Fireball, I hope you continue to check into the Jim site from time to time. It's one of the best communities out there.

It's not my kind of community. Of course, discussing things openly and allowing dissent (as happens here) is great. I visit it occasionally, and read both Meat and non-Meat posts. But there, things are often talked about in an `academic' style. I come to forums like these to get away from the rigours of every day life, not immerse myself further in it. I don't enjoy over-analysing things. I prefer a more laid back atmosphere.

The posts I have seen on Dream Pollution seem to be mostly close minded to Meat's non-Jim stuff. Anything non-Jim is compared to Jim. They talk about so-called rip offs of Jim songs (eg I'd Lie For You), and make unfair comments.

evil nickname
21 May 2003, 03:21
Well, I stood on the point of giving up on this forum, when I read the following:

Eveyone is entitled to their own opinions, including the music press, and I guess you just have to hope people will make up their own minds.

And I thought: Hey, there's hope! Someone is saying something that makes sense. Of course you should think for yourself! If you believe everything someone (musical press or not) says or writes, you're bound to find yourself being let down.
Fire Ball says on the Janice Long Show that CHSIB is the only perfect album he's done since Bat. Well, okay, sure he's proud of his new album... but that does not mean that people who think otherwise do not have the right to say so. Be it on mlukfc.com, be it on jimsteinman.com, be it anywhere.
As I've said before, first time I heard CHSIB, I was disappointed with it. Only "Do It!" worked for me the first time 'round, followed by DIST?, LYOL, CHSIB, Testify and TMD on the spins after that... Why isn't that Enough is slowly starting to grow on me, as is Because of You, but I doubt if that will happen with YRIWW, Man of Steel and Forever Young... that's my opinion, and I'll stand by it. You go try and tear me down!
I'm a regular over at jimsteinman.com, and I certainly do not agree with everything what is posted there. I visit this board on a fairly regular basis the last couple of weeks, but I'm losing my interest here, because no one seems to be capable of a somewhat objective view.
And please do note I say 'somewhat'. I know that when it comes to Meat's music, I'm not able to be completly objective. I like most of it, but I'm able to recognize that not every song is as good as any other. I don't like Paradise and Two out of Three that much, or the whole BBIS album for that matter... so sue me!
I've seen Meat performing in Amsterdam on the 23rd of April, hell, I even was at the meet&greet! Would I go there if I, like all the others over at the Steinman board, think that the fact he's breathing is a bad thing? Come on, and get real! Or even better: would I be able to say that my collection of Meat's music is so complete that I have at least one version of *every* song he has ever recorded in studio and was released (and that includes the 2 Popcorn Blizzard tracks on LP too, thank you very much!) if I hate him? I know for a fact that not everyone at the Jim Steinman forum hates Meat, or says bad or untrue things about him, because I am one of them.
But following the same logic I *could* be very urinated (since it seems to me I can't say I'm pissed) off about the fact, that at least a large portion of the people here hate my guts for "hating" Meat. Which is not true, and a lie, and just as negative as is most of what is written here about me [being a part of the community over there].

I'm not going to suggest that we should let this topic rest, because I think that every one should be able to voice his own opinion on this matter. But please, do it based on the facts... don't stare blind on everything you read... and for christs' sake: use your mind.


This post was brought to you by a slightly aggitated William....

Bart
21 May 2003, 23:55
Since Januray this year i am on this forum and on another Meat Forum. And i always thought that if people like the same music then they don't make war and look what is going on. Everybody makes war. I think it is pathatic. We all love the Loaf, we all love the Jim, we have all the same wonderful feelings when we listen to their music. We all cry when we listen to it, we all cry when we hear his voice, we all have shiver down ou spines. we ALL have the same interests, so let us joy and stop all those stupid, stupid, very stupid things which everybody is saying to somebody here. It is so, so, so sad and silly.

mariella
21 May 2003, 23:59
Very well said, Bart! I couldn't agree more.

Great 'holi'day to you,

Mariella

Bart
22 May 2003, 00:15
Yeah, thanx Mariella, i am gonna rock those fooles up there in Lanzarote :mrgreen:

evil nickname
22 May 2003, 01:02
Since Januray this year i am on this forum and on another Meat Forum. And i always thought that if people like the same music then they don't make war and look what is going on. Everybody makes war. I think it is pathatic. We all love the Loaf, we all love the Jim, we have all the same wonderful feelings when we listen to their music. We all cry when we listen to it, we all cry when we hear his voice, we all have shiver down ou spines. we ALL have the same interests, so let us joy and stop all those stupid, stupid, very stupid things which everybody is saying to somebody here. It is so, so, so sad and silly.

And this is what I mean, please allow me to make up my own opinions... the closest I've been to crying about a song was when I first heard Freddie Mercury sing "Too Much Love Will Kill You" or the Ayreon song "And The Druids Turned to Stone". I haven't had a similar experience with Jim's / Meat's music/voice. I'm not much of type to cry over a song, so don't say I do.
And NO, we don't have ALL the same interests (thank god, what would the world be a boring place if we did!). I can't imagine that everyone here is interested in "Copyrights and legal music distribution in the digital age" or "when to use what type of open source licence". Again, you're making up what I should think / like / cry to / be interested in! Stop that dammit!
Let us all think for ourselves, and stop all those stupid, stupid, very stupid things where everybody is sayiong to everybody what to say... or actually, NO, figure that out for yourself.

And this post was brought to you by a more aggitated William.

mariella
22 May 2003, 01:37
Hi Evil Nickname,

I know you are upset, and from what I just read I might get the impression that you are saying Meats music doesn't tough your soul. And believe me, it doesn't HAVE to. But somehow I believe his music does mean a lot to you.
You just don't cry over a song easy, that's okay, you don't have to either.

That's what I love about people, they are all different.
But at this place, we do have one thing in common, we all love Meat Loaf.
That's the reason we come here. Not all of us feel the same about everything related to that, that's what makes it interesting.

Have you been reading everything? And if so, do you really feel we don't 'dare' to say anything negative about Meat?

Maybe you don't feel comfortable with this 'happy' attitude some of us have over here. Because from what I've read you have every record, went to the amsterdam show, even to the M&G if I am right. So, this music must be important to you. You wouldn't 'bother' to come over here if it wasn't.

And you CAN make up your own mind, everyone here does that, I think it just doesn't seem that way to you.
That is not my problem.
If I focus on positive things, I feel better...

Great day to you,

Mariella

JulesB
22 May 2003, 03:35
Well, I've read all the posts and I think many good ideas surfaced, however I have a hard time agreeing with posting negative and rude comments under the guise of free speech. Debating an issue is one thing, if all sides can back their ideas with fact and not let personal feeling and emotion enter into it. If you think about it, you are attacking someones work and if you're anything like me, I don't like people judging me unfairly and making uneducated assumptions of my work. Constructive critisism is something we all have to endure, but to attack with no basis of fact is something that is unfair to anyone.

I really don't think the majority of the posters here kiss Meat's a.ss, they just prefer to keep a positve spin on their posts. I was raised to believe that if you can't say anything nice, say nothing at all. Now, I do not always follow that, I am human and have many flaws. But if I am going to say something on a public forum I try to adhere to that philosophy. I have a feeling that is why many here have been judged to be blind followers. Personally I find them to be polite and mature people with manners.

Thank you all for being such great people to talk with. And it's about the MUSIC that makes us smile (or cry) and escape from the day to day crap we all have to cope with!

Jules 8)

Fire Ball
22 May 2003, 04:32
To the writers from The Jim site, What you written here is you have Freedom to say what you want on that site, Yes you do, but some of the things that have been said on that site are stated as facts not opinions, and the facts are wrong. Let me say that again THE FACTS ARE WRONG!!!! I've read more crap on that site, and some of the things that are said about me are not opinions they are hate mail, If someone wrote about Jim that way on this site I would be at their front door. You can have your opinions that's fine, you can not like something, fine!, but when it becomes a pack of wild animals tearing a living flesh it is unforgivable , it is no longer just opinions. I have invited several people from that site to talk to me face to face but no one has the nerve, to confront me BECAUSE THEY KNOW THEY ARE FULL OF BS and that they are wrong. They would much rather tell lies than the truth , they are afraid of the truth!! Oh my word they could be wrong!! (an opinion) but maybe, just maybe that could be the TRUTH. Have your opinions but when it gets that personal it is totally out of line!! You just continue to enjoy that site but don't come here and tell everyone here that their site sucks, just don't come here , you are more than welcome here just don't complain that you don't like it . That makes you look stupid for being here.

Tim the Butcher I disagree with
You :-)

Meat

Fire Ball
22 May 2003, 04:33
there should be a have after ...... what you....... what you have written here........

Dave
22 May 2003, 04:59
WOW!

Meat Loaf you took the words right out of my mouth!

It makes me sick to see "fans" who claim to adore you on Meat lists/sites, yet the same people are less than flattering when it comes to posting on the Jim list/board.

I think the problem is Dance Of The Vampires failed without Meat's wonderful imput; wheras, Couldn't Have Said It Better is near perfection without the inspiration of Steinman!

Meat Loaf has just released the best album of his entire career without the expected element of a sucessfull Meat Loaf album (Jim Steinman), and for this, people are a tad upset.

I am a frequent poster on Dream Pollution - I am a big fan of Jim Steinman, but it is just plain silly. I can say that you have more than likely seen my last posts on Dream Pollution. I have given up on trying to defent Meat there. They are brain-numbed zombies out to idolize Jim, in the EXACT same manner they accuse of of idolizing Meat. I just wonder what the Steinfans would think if they really knew what a load of rubbish I thought Pandora's Box was? At least on the MLUKFC, if you are less than thrilled with something, you will not be stoned by your peers. Yes, some might get angry, but I have never seen personal attacks on other people's personal lives just because of a disagreement on the MLUKFC message board.

On a personal note, this has been a very difficult week for me. I have gone through a hell of a lot, but I want to tell each and every one of you who sent me PM's, e-mails, and chatted with me on the instant messengers...you guys are awesome. There is a love among Meat Loaf fans that I just cannot describe. Never be afraid of your passion, always speak your mind, and as Meat Loaf says at the end of every concert..."never stop rockin!"

ROCK ON FIRE BALL!!!

heat
22 May 2003, 06:22
YOU TELL 'EM FIRE BALL!!!!! :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

David - hope things are ok with you, hun :)


Heat
xxx

Fire Ball
22 May 2003, 06:37
One more Thing, in Response to ...... Why, as your site calls it ... I Take over shows..........BECAUSE I CAN....... THE SAME WAY AS ROBIN WILLIAMS OR JIM CARY....... Because the shows know what I do, that I'm quick, good at improv and will be funny AND THEY LIKE IT!!!!!!!!! it makes good TV for them and I'm not like everyone else. If there is serious interview to be made I will do that too. It is not because I'm afraid of criticism... You must be Kidding... you people can really reach for reasons.... Can't you just say it's funny or it's the way He performs or he's pretty good , How about, he has a lot of engery..... No you can't ..... Meat Loaf has always got to have a Flaw.
What are you going to say about Bat 3!!! You can hate me but I least I'm out here doing it...... I must be doing something right I'm still working.....
Oh I forgot.... I have nothing to do with it,.... It's all Jim.... I can't sing, I can't act, I eat the wrong food, I have the wrong band, I wear the wrong color shoes, I wear the wrong clothes. I'm too fat, I drive the wrong car, sleep in the wrong bed, our drums are wrong on tour, we ride in the wrong bus, we stay at the wrong hotels, we talk to much, we talk to little, I walk funny, I don't walk enough, I dream wrong when I sleep, I have the wrong doctor, I should have never been born ... AND I had nothing to do with BAT.......... And all of you could do what I do ....BETTER.

Why don't you send a message back to that group.
Tell Them..............................................
I love them all and God bless them all. Someday they will know the truth.

All The Best
Meat Loaf

mariella
22 May 2003, 09:11
David, I really hope you are feeling better now!

Meat, love you. Well said!

Great day to you,

Mariella

Louise
22 May 2003, 11:34
Wow, Meat, that was a rant and a half! I'd really hate to upset you and then see you face to face! :D

Sue K
22 May 2003, 11:36
i haven't read all the posts...but reading the one that got the topic into discussion? i can't understand why someone would post a hurtful review to a board they are aware that Meat reads and responds to...

would someone please explain that to me?

thank you.

tink

dottie
22 May 2003, 11:47
i haven't read all the posts...but reading the one that got the topic into discussion? i can't understand why someone would post a hurtful review to a board they are aware that Meat reads and responds to...

would someone please explain that to me?

thank you.

tink

Tink here on this forum free speech and opinions abound, I was really upset that yet again a reviewer has to compare CHSIB with B o o H. The albums are separate entities and I love them both. I also am personally pleased that Meat gets a chance to read the posts on here, so that he is aware of what is being said, and can give his opinions as well. We love Meat here I'm one of his biggest fans and have been for 33 years.

dottie
22 May 2003, 11:49
i haven't read all the posts...but reading the one that got the topic into discussion? i can't understand why someone would post a hurtful review to a board they are aware that Meat reads and responds to...

would someone please explain that to me?

thank you.

tink

Tink here on this forum free speech and opinions abound, I was really upset that yet again a reviewer has to compare CHSIB with B o o H. The albums are separate entities and I love them both. I also am personally pleased that Meat gets a chance to read the posts on here, so that he is aware of what is being said, and can give his opinions as well. We love Meat here I'm one of his biggest fans and have been for 33 years.

Please keep posting Tink as your opinions likes and dislikes are important to all of us.

Love dottie
xxx

evil nickname
22 May 2003, 12:20
First off, Fire Ball, you've go a pm :-)

I know you are upset, and from what I just read I might get the impression that you are saying Meats music doesn't tough your soul. And believe me, it doesn't HAVE to. But somehow I believe his music does mean a lot to you.
You just don't cry over a song easy, that's okay, you don't have to either.

There are few things that touch me less that Meat and Jim's music... I get, like, "in the zone", if you know what I mean...

Have you been reading everything? And if so, do you really feel we don't 'dare' to say anything negative about Meat?

I've read a lot here, and I can't really recall any 'critical'/negative posts. But that could also be the beer :-) or my memory failing me

Maybe you don't feel comfortable with this 'happy' attitude some of us have over here. Because from what I've read you have every record, went to the amsterdam show, even to the M&G if I am right. So, this music must be important to you. You wouldn't 'bother' to come over here if it wasn't.

The one record I'm missing is the 1974 More Than You Deserve, so if anyone can help me with that...[/shameless plug]. But other than that, I'm always trying to be possitive about everything, but as I've said in my PM to Meat, it hurts me when its being implied that I'm a liar who hates him, and when I feel I'm wronged, I speak my mind. And well, I'm getting really annoyed with all this bitching back and forth... so maybe it was the straw that broke the camel's back...

And you CAN make up your own mind, everyone here does that, I think it just doesn't seem that way to you. That is not my problem.

Well, in my last post, I was specically replying to Bart, who said that:
Everybody makes war -- I don't (well, at least I don't bomb other countries)
We all love the Loaf, -- I do
we all love the Jim, -- again, I do
we have all the same wonderful feelings when we listen to their music. -- how can you know that?
We all cry when we listen to it, -- I don't
we all cry when we hear his voice, -- I'd be crying a lot then, but again, I don't
we all have shiver down ou spines. -- sometimes it happens because of the music, sometimes because of the draft I'm sitting in :-)
we ALL have the same interests, -- and that can't certainly be true.

Don't state things as a fact when you can't back it up... (hmm, where've I read that before?) and this is just so silly... if you have that, fine, but don't assume of me I have that to...

Great day to you,

And to you too, and a fine meal, with bits of bacon in it :-) (as a certain Dutch preacher would say)

William

CarylB
22 May 2003, 12:28
I have no idea why people want to post such reviews to here Tink, and even less as to why people on the Steinman list/board feel the need to be so gratuitously unpleasant about Meat, for I don't think I've ever seen Meat Loaf fans be so about Jim. And I agree with Jules and others who have posted in similar vein, being positive and polite isn't A-kissing. (Hey .. I finally found a way to convey this .. the board has an Auntie Beeb nanny built in :) ) There are plenty of performers I don't like .. but I don't seek out forums to post negative and unpleasant things about them .. what's the point?

One of the things that always beggars me is the constant need to pick at every non-Steinman song Meat records, looking for similarities and suggesting they are attempts to imitate his work .. for to me they miss the common denominator that is MEAT!! It's HE who makes a song sound like it does imo .. so if someone can hear a similarity between AFL and I'd Lie For You or DIST for example, I think the reason one hears that is because it is Meat delivering the song.

As to him "taking over" interviews .. he PERFORMS for heaven's sake .. that's what he does, it's what the TV company wants, it's what his fans expect. He is a consummate performer and 150% entertaining .. watching him on the Graham N show was the best couple of hours entertainment I have ever seen .. and when he was singing CHSIB I caught Graham's eye and whispered "Thank you .. that was wonderful" .. and Graham's reply? "It's not me .. it's HIM. He's incredible!!" .. and there perhaps we have it re those who always seek to pull him down. Perhaps they resent his success in his own right .. certainly they seem to resent any suggestion that he would have had the success he has had without JS. I've had arguments with people who post here about this. (One not so very far actually :) ) My own view .. someone with Meat's voice and skills as an actor, versatility of talent, and drive and determination would have been a success whomsoever he met or didn't. He was destined for success. May his star never falter.

Finally, it's not a competition! Jim has written some great songs .. he's a composer. Meat delivers songs in an outstanding way .. he's a performer. Bathtubs and bobcats .. Elton John composes songs and delivers them, Bernie writes the lyrics. You don't see arguments raging about Elton versus Bernie .. and imo those about Meat v Jim are pointless. For me Meat's the best. That's why I come here. I don't kncok Jim, I do applaud Meat. That's not A-kissing .. it's being a fan .. and it's more laudable than A-kicking!!

MBrevard
22 May 2003, 12:48
:(

dottie
22 May 2003, 13:17
Oh my God - So much anger on here - wish I'd never started this topic.
All this negative vibe is making me feel ill - I think it might be a good idea to ask if this topic could be locked.

MBrevard
22 May 2003, 13:29
Oh, Dottie! No! I hope they don't lock this topic. Perhaps Meat, himself, might want to say more, after he's had some time away from all this and has calmed down.

And don't feel bad about starting it. Don't feel bad--period!

If these problems and concerns hadn't surfaced here, they probably would have somewhere else. Some things just have to come out, you know, in order to get resolved!

I'm hoping everyone will/can come together and work things out!! We have such a terrific bunch of people here and they have the great capability to love and to forgive and to work through the difficult times!

Here's to happier occasions in the days ahead!! (Like another showing of G.N. :mrgreen: )

Love to you,
MB
xxx

Oriel
22 May 2003, 13:30
* and MBrevard is carried away screaming in a straight jacket...

Firstly,
MBrevard: Meat is the only person "shouting", (and yourself now).

This thing has been blown all out of proportion (thanks MB).
The main thing is, it is only a few people who are causing this "trouble".

Meat,
Please don't consider all of us at the Steinman site to be the way you so eagerly described. We have a few of these people, yeah, but then what board doesn't?
Also, any facts that appear on Dream Pollution come from other sources, not from us.

I'm not going to apologise for anything on the site, as I am obviously in no position to do so.

I think you should sort this out once and for all. I've been going to the Jimmy site for 5 years and have seen everything, but I think you have been misunderstood on a few occasions. People have got their wires crossed...

Meat, I genuinely think that you could make your peace with "them", and I for one would like to see it happen. A lot has been said, but not everything has been listened to...

Sinecure.
[/b]

MBrevard
22 May 2003, 13:46
Hi, Sinecure! Thanks for continuing the discussion, although, with a bit of a Rockman Philharmonic response. 8)

No one accused you of shouting. In fact, the invitation was to calmly discuss things, including your points of view.

Meat's reaction shows that things were already "blown out of proportion," as you call it.

But I'm SO glad you said what you did to him! And I mean that! I wish more folks from the other site would come and tell him that! I'm sure all of us here are hoping that things can be resolved peacefully for everyone's sake---LONG before the next Bat album is ready!!

Love,
MB
xxx

evil nickname
22 May 2003, 13:47
MB, you've said some smart and true things, but you're comepletely and utterly wrong on this one...

I don't know how else to say this, but it is just plain RUDE to come to a person's fan club and put them down. There are plenty of other places in which that can be done, if you so choose. The Rockman Philharmonic is one of those, because that's the way it's been set up.

So you say that The Rockman Record (the message board) and Rockman Philharmonic (The Jim Steinman Society for the Arts) are set up to put down Meat. That's a lie, and you know it... or as you like to call it yourself, just plain rude. You're doing the same now...

FYI,
Rockman Philharmonic - The Jim Steinman Society For The Arts exists to honor and highlight the Accomplishments, Style and Wit of this innovative VIRTUOSO!

And that does not read: "Rockman Philharmonic - The Jim Steinman Society for the Arts exists a) to honor and hightlight the Accomplishmenst [editorial note: which include Bat, DR and Bat II], Style and Wit of this innovatie VIRTUOSO! And b) to put down Meat Loaf!"

Oh and another 'nice' bit:
Two of them come here! Either we learn to live with them or they won't stay long.

Nice to know I'm welcome here.[/sarcasm]

As I said, you started out smart, but you went and made the same mistake you accuse others off! I was feeling a lot better... but after reading you post... well, I don't know anymore...

heat
22 May 2003, 14:01
Bloody Hell :evil:

There's a right hornets nest stirred up here, aint there???

I don't want to get into an argument or fall out with anybody - we are all entitled to our opinons after all - it's just when it gets personal then people start to get hurt, and i think thats the last thing anyone on here actually wants.

I think perhaps we should all calm down a little, take a deep breath, and get some perspective here.


Heat
xxx

Oriel
22 May 2003, 14:03
Evil Nickname:
I think we could submit MB's post for an English Literature coursework text :D ...and I tihnk don't we all have time to study it... :wink:

MBrevard:
Thanks for your kind words, and encouragment. I'm trying to resovle something that, in my eyes, shouldn't exist at all.

Dottie:
I think that locking this topic would be a bad idea - people have things that they want to say, blocking them from doing this will not be for the greater good of the board and it's users.


Both sets of fans are pedalling in the same direction, it's just that some aren't really in control of the bicycle ALL of the time.
So, from now on, how about trying to make this more of a discussion, rather than an argument y'all?

Peace,
Stephen.

MBrevard
22 May 2003, 14:19
Hi, William!! Quick responses this morning. That's good! Middle of the night here for me, so I have time to respond.

First of all, thank you for writing back. I love to talking with people and I also love the chance to work through problems.

The main point of your last post was a line from mine and now we have an excellent example of how easy it is to twist things and misinterpret things--something we all do!

What I was trying to say was that the Rockman Philharmonic and its message board was set up to be totally free--with few restrictions placed on it. So it's a place where all comments are welcomed. I was NOT trying to say that it was set up TO BE "rude" to Meat--or actually, ANYTHING to Meat at all. I agree with you--that would be a ridiculous statement, since R.P. is all about Jim, NOT Meat. :)

So, I am sorry for that misunderstanding and I hope you'll go back and reread that section with the real meaning in mind.

I think, in terms of discussion, that covers the first two of your comments about my posting.

The third one is a sad statement, isn't it, but true. And it's not that you're not welcome, William. But when people come to a place like this one, as Bart stated so well earlier, to have fun, to have a good time, to relax with people whose company they enjoy, then they don't want to see the place be downgraded to a war-like situation. And we have people writing in like Dottie a few minutes ago about the anger and feeling sick from it. Feeling bad about having started this topic. That's not what this place is all about. I'm sure you can understand that.

That's why I invited you to share more of your points of view here, so that all of us could better understand where you are coming from, where your comments were coming from.

And I hope you will continue to do that.

Here's hoping you feel better about things now.

Hi again, Stephen! Thanks for the name, by the way! I'm so glad you stayed around to talk some more!

I agree wtih you that this situation between Meat and Jim's fans should NOT exist! Especially now, when there is hope for the next album. When three songs from it have already been written and we all have heard that they are "amazing"!! This should be a time of great joy for all of us!!

Right now, of course, we are concentrating on Meat's new album. But there is so much to look forward to in the future. And it would be wonderful if ALL of us could do that together!! :D

Thanks, Heat!! Couldn't agree with ya more!! :lol:

Love to all,
MB
xxx

Niné
22 May 2003, 14:35
Meat i agree. I saw the show in Amsterdam. And yes it was dynamic and you give everything. And it was funny too. Wait till they come to see a show than they will talk different.

evil nickname
22 May 2003, 15:31
Middle of the day over here in The Netherlands, and I'm having a day off, so I have nothing better to do... so...

The main point of your last post was a line from mine and now we have an excellent example of how easy it is to twist things and misinterpret things--something we all do!

What I was trying to say was that the Rockman Philharmonic and its message board was set up to be totally free--with few restrictions placed on it. So it's a place where all comments are welcomed. I was NOT trying to say that it was set up TO BE "rude" to Meat--or actually, ANYTHING to Meat at all. I agree with you--that would be a ridiculous statement, since R.P. is all about Jim, NOT Meat. :)

So, I am sorry for that misunderstanding and I hope you'll go back and reread that section with the real meaning in mind.

Okay, I can see where you come from, but if you read the snippet I posted, and you do some subsitution it might look like this:

I don't know how else to say this, but it is just plain RUDE to come to a person's fan club and put them down.
There are plenty of other places in which that[=putting them down] can be done, if you so choose.
The Rockman Philharmonic is one of those [=a place where you can put people down], because that's the way it's been set up.

It could be that I overanalyze sentances, maybe its because English is not my native language, but too me, that's what it says. And that is not true... maybe you meant it in a comeplety different way, but this is what I make off it.

The third one is a sad statement, isn't it, but true. And it's not that you're not welcome, William. But when people come to a place like this one, as Bart stated so well earlier, to have fun, to have a good time, to relax with people whose company they enjoy, then they don't want to see the place be downgraded to a war-like situation. And we have people writing in like Dottie a few minutes ago about the anger and feeling sick from it. Feeling bad about having started this topic. That's not what this place is all about. I'm sure you can understand that.

I'm not here to 'downgrade' the forum. Like you, I come here to have a good time. But when people here are constantly bashing on an other place where I like to go and have fun, and seem to do so with 'ficteous' reasons, well, I feel bad and hurt too. Because I *know* that not everyone hates Meat there. I keep saying that, but then I keep running into walls over and over again... If I didn't give a ratt's butt about what happens here, I would not even bother to punch in lengthy replies, and read them again and again just to make sure it says what I want to say... I would go like, "whatever" and don't show up anymore. And sarcasm and cynicalism (is that a word by the way?) are some of my trademarks...

That's why I invited you to share more of your points of view here, so that all of us could better understand where you are coming from, where your comments were coming from.

And I hope you will continue to do that.

Well, seems I'm at it again. My whole point in this matter is just this: just like Meat doesn't like to be "constantly be put down by everyone over there" (which isn't true: fact), I don't like being put down here for something that I didn't do in the first place. If you don't know what's going on, how can you have an opinion about that? That's stupid, and even dangerous! And you can't know what's really going on somewhere, if you don't participate/seriously lurk around, and just take a quick peak every now and then.

I'd like to close with a quote from Live:

All this discussion
Although politically correct
Is dead beyond destruction
Though it leaves me quite erect

[snipped]

Look where all this talking got us, baby

Couldn't've said it better myself ;-)

CarylB
22 May 2003, 16:05
Evil Nickname, a lot of what you say is spot on .. although I think it's also fair to say that there are those on the DP board and the Gospel list who take a delight in knocking Meat .. but that isn't the majority. However, when they get going they are pretty mean spirited in what they say. I also stand by what I said which is that I've never heard Meat fans put down Jim ..

Meat fans tend to be supportive rather than critical of Meat .. well there's a surprise! Jim fans tend to be the same. And before anyone tells me that they've been critical re DOV .. most blame it's unfortunate demise on everyone else involved in the production .. understandably .. they're Jim fans .. but it goes to show that fans will support their icon.

But I'm surprised at people getting their feathers so ruffled at what has been posted in the last few pages .. people have views and opinions and have expressed them .. that seems fair to me .. there has been nothing really vicious .. not since the initial calls to send the reviewer "back to hell where he belongs" . I think there's been more epithets applied to, and harsh words thrown at him than at anybody in this discussion!

But I also think Meat's big enough not to be crying into his Starbucks, nor to need this thread locked down :) No-one likes pot shots and half truths/lies aimed at them .. He feels strongly and reacts .. it's called passion .. and it's what makes him the performer he is :)) Someone with his resilience and strength may need our support .. but not our protection. He's a big man .. and he lets off steam with a big rant :)

CarylB
22 May 2003, 16:07
Oh .. and meant to answer your question .. it's CYNICISM .. but you were close :))

Asha
22 May 2003, 16:45
I have been reading this topic for the third time today, and I do not know these Jim forums everybody is talking about (so shoot me, but at the moment I'm not intersted in them)

I do know how I would react is someone makes a personal post about me that's not true. I would be mad, and I would most probably make a reply wich would be hurtfull, and in my opinion true. And, yes, it would be something ugly (I have learned through alot of shame not to do it anymore, so I mostly keep my mouth shut) The biggest problem is that the other person would feel hurt, and he/she would be the last person to forgive and forget...
I have been hurt more by my own remarks about people then they have, probably.

You try and make peace with someone you called something ugly a few minutes earlier, well in my experience, that's not likely to happen.

But I have learned that is you say something negative about someone, and you say it constructively, it goes over much better.
So, what if I didn't like Jim's way of writing e.g. (I do like his music alot, just an example) I could call him a big ....(Something ugly) for writing this music, or I could say: I do not like you music because I think...(you think of something). Wich would you prefer?? I know wich I would like better.

So, if you do not like to keep the peace you would probably say the first, otherwise you would say the latter.

So, I like meat's big voice, his energy, his performances, the way he entertains...eventhough i do not like/love every song he ever performed.
It also doesn't mean Meat is my live.
I also love my family, my Job, you name it. My job is stressfull, dealing with a lot off other peoples hurts..and i like to unwind to good rock music, not only meat's though.
So I might not understand what you see in Robbie Williams e.g. I don't dig his music, does it make me less human??? So if someone likes robbie and not meat, does it make them less human?? I do not think so...
I might not understand why they like that music, but I can try, and I can accept it for their opinion.

I just hope we can all give some constructive critism on this board, and not just say, you are wrong, and I am right, period.
That is not a discussion, it's a yes and no game. If you want to speak your mind, and it's not so possitive, fine, go right ahead, but don't go saying to someone, you are this or that, when you do not even know them.
If you do not like what i have said, fine, I respect you for that, but don't say to me that I'm wrong, because this is the way I feel, and for me this is true.

Anyway I wish all off you a great day, and I hope everybody can let off some steam. Live isn't always fair, but we can make the best of it.

Asha

MBrevard
22 May 2003, 18:04
Hi again!

William, thanks for continuing the conversation. Good to hear from you! It's morning now in California, so it's not as easy for me to come and write here. My time is usually spent taking care of my elderly parents!

But I wanted to take a few moments to respond to your last comments.

Sorry that that one section continues to bother you. The last time we talked about it, I tried to share with you what I had meant to say. I can't say more than that. If it wasn't clear in my original post, then I apologize for that. But my last response still stands. That is what I meant.

Now, let me take a moment to explain something to you. I am a recent poster here, but have been lurking for 2 to 3 years, coming once or twice a day, reading everyone's posts, feeling as though I was getting to know so many of the wonderful folks at the MLUKFC.

But I'm usually the shy type, so it took me a while to get going and I only did that because, after so much time reading everyone's thoughts here, I felt comfortable doing so.

But I have also been lurking at the RP message board for that SAME LENGTH OF TIME--at least once a day, sometimes, twice. And I have to admit, it would NEVER be a place I would post to--mostly because of the attitude I have found there from some of the major posters--not everyone, mind you. But some of those who post regularly.

I suppose that's another reason I react so strongly, when Meat does on this subject, because for the most part, I, too, have seen what he is talking about!

But before you start to respond, unlike him, I do NOT think that everyone there feels that way about him. I have seen some positive posting. And that's why, in my original post to him, I was trying to put some perspective on those numbers.

But you know what I have also felt there, William? That people who do NOT feel the same way as these major and frequent message board posters, DO NOT post positive Meat statements to counter the few who are throwing out the negatives so freely!!

So, it may be true (and I believe it IS) that not everyone at that board hates or dislikes Meat, but for the most part, those who feel differently, do NOT express those feelings openly. Therefore, it's so easy to walk away from the board believing, as Meat does, that everyone there hates him! I can understand that entirely!!

If anyone were to go through the past couple of years' messages there, I think they would see or feel the same thing!

Does that make sense, William? I hope so. If you feel differently about Meat, and obviously, from all you have said here, you do, then, would YOU feel comfortable going to the JS board and posting very positive statements about him??

Again, I am NOT being facetious here. I am being serious and straight with you. If you (and some of the others who like Meat) would speak up more readily, more openly than has been seen in the past, that might just make all the difference in the world--to Meat and to all of us who do read that board and have that same sad feeling, after leaving it!

And I am truly sorry that you feel you're being mistreated here. I hope that by everyone continuing the discussions as we are right now, things will be better for all who come here and want to share their opinions no matter what they are. :lol:

Talking to each other like this is always good!!

Glad to hear you have the day off there. I hope it continues to be a good one for you!!

Asha, what a wonderful message! Thank you SO much for making the point that putting one's point of view in a positive way, is ALWAYS a better way to communicate than sharing the negative side of it!! I couldn't agree more!

I used to run a very large website and fan group for another actor--did it for several years. And in the discussion areas of it, because I, myself, was not comfortable with a lot of negative thoughts, I always asked people that if they wanted to disagree with things others had said, to please turn them around and express them positively, sticking to what they FELT, NOT to how they disagreed with someone else. (I'm not sure that's clear--and so I may have William or someone else on me again. :mrgreen: )

But in other words, being positive about how one feels is better than just putting someone else down if you don't feel the same as they do!!

I couldn't agree more and thank you SO much for making the point!! :bunny:

Well, forgive me. It's breakfast time for two 89-year-olds. So, I have to go downstairs for a while. If you wish to continue the conversation, William (or anyone else) I'll try to be back here later!!

Continued love to all of you,
MB
xxx

Asha
22 May 2003, 18:28
Thx MB,

I just wanted to say that if you do not agree with someone tell them why you do not agree, don't just say you're wrong.

If you wanna tell me that I am and a..s, say: I think you are an a..s and plz tell me why.
Don't say to me: You are an a..s.
That doesn't go over well, anyway, can't say it different, these kinds of discussions are better when you can look someone in the eye.

Asha

Peat Loaf
22 May 2003, 19:10
Yeah getting wires crossed seem to have been happening quite a lot these days and people getting the wrong end of the stick I know I have had the hammer come down on me BIG style for something I never did there is nothing worse than being accused of saying and doing things you have not said and done and that is plane to see here but if I can add my bit with a post I put up else where I thinks it appropriate here to so here goes

Hi Guys

Might as well get in on the act here too the thing with the Steinmeanies is they hate Meat coz he is the one that got all the fame and the biggest accolade from Bat but what they don't seem to get through there thick skulls is yes Jim did put meat on the map so to speak but and a big but at that Meat also put Jim on the map too more infact you see Meat has proved time and time again that he can sing any ones songs and perform them like no one else I have heard other people singing Jim’s songs and even Jim him self example I remember seeing Jim’s own rendition of Rock n Roll Dreams on German TV some years ago but look at that and then Look at Meats version of the same song sorry Jim but there's no comparison.

I am over the moon the Meat and Jim are back working together as when they are and all the leaches and scumbags stay out the way there is no better combination as we all (apart from Jim's fanatics which is no bearing on Jim I might add) Know. So if I dare say Big Guy don’t let them get to you bro as we all know what the down is and we don’t care what they say and any way there's more of us than there is of them

Pete 8)

ps. Just another thing for the Steinmeannies to think about is i don't see any Jim Steinman Tribute Bands out there do you ???


_________________
Another New York waltz at 4 am and the canyons lost at night the citys just a jail for me full high rise prison walls

Oriel
22 May 2003, 19:18
Oh dear...and yet another hostile attack on us Jim fans.

And you think we're bad?

:(

Stephen.

Peat Loaf
22 May 2003, 19:26
No it is not you (not you personaly) have been attacking Meat for years for the reasons i have said and it's a FACT and beleve me when i tell you there is no one in the world right now that has more reason not to be a Meat Loaf fan than me just now. But at the end of the day what i posted IS the Truth

Pete 8)

Fire Ball
22 May 2003, 19:48
Didn't Know CAPTIALS was yelling...... Sorry....... Just making a point for me. I don't go to the Steinman site....... the 2 times I have, I have read lies . It's not telling the truth that gets me....... They can say anything they what..... They just seem to be angry depressed people (opinion). Don't worry guys I'm fine with what they say until they start quoting me and it's wrong. Example: I Was to have said that Nikki Sixx can out write Jim. The day that happens the Ice will melt at both Poles .( Lets get this straight I like Nikki and what he has done.)< no more miss quotes.> But they had me saying it!! oh by the way it came from the Nikki Sixx web page. But I was the one who said it. I wrote a lot of posts over there on that site about that, but I don't believe they thought it was me, also wrote 4 emails to the person who started it, but he never replied, even to ask if I had said it, he just continued to write the Lie . His web site says he's a big fan of mine. something funny about! Over there I think it's mob rule, and people are afarid to go upstream. but Let's hope he gets the album, then we will be at 400,001. again I don't go there... the thing about the TV shows just came to me in an e-mail. Jim is Great I'm pretty good and together we made 2 great records, BOTTOM LINE (not yelling).
A couple of the records I made without him were ok, but CHSIB is very special (TIM :-) ) and will still be saying that in 25 years, maybe I'll put that on my tombstone along with "told you I was sick". To everyone at both sites Have a great day, and to the people at the Jim site try and be Happy :-) I know it's hard for you but Just say "I know I can , I know I can" (joke).

See You on Tour
We have 2 incredible Guitar players
A dream come true and a girl on guitar OH BOY!! (shouting)

Love Ya
Meat

mariella
22 May 2003, 19:49
Hi Sinecure,

Pete is a Meat Loaf-tribute band/act (I don't really know) from his point of view it's not so strange to think of other tribute bands. I really don't think he was 'attacking' Jim-fans.
I don't think we should go on about this, if we do we start comparing and WHY would we do that??? :??:
That sort of 'discussion' will not work out for any of us, I think.
But it's very good too see what's been happening here today. Thank you!

Pete, I really respect the way you talk about Meat, specially with what has happened recently. Just wanted to tell you that.

Great day to all of you,

Mariella

Is it too soon for a 'group-hug'??

dottie
22 May 2003, 19:55
Fire Ball if your're still on line just wanted to say - this topic has strayed so much from the original that I started - and I don't like this any more than you do.

Thanks by the way for the fabulous show :wink:

Love dot wigley
xxx

Peat Loaf
22 May 2003, 20:03
Mariella Said


Pete, I really respect the way you talk about Meat, specially with what has happened recently. Just wanted to tell you that.


Thank's Mariella but when you have been what i have been though and pulled back by some one you cant just turn feeling like that off like you can a light switch

Pete 8)

mariella
22 May 2003, 20:03
Group-hug!?

Love,

Mariella

Sorry Pete, we posted at the same time. Keeps happening to me these last few minutes.
This was my response to Dottie's post.

I can imagine it must be difficult, but I respect how you handle this.

heat
22 May 2003, 20:17
Glad to see people are starting to calm down a little now - was beginning to wonder if i'd hafta get me bouncers licence out!!! :P

Pete - i'm so glad to see you have stuck with it here hun - i know the past few weeks have been hard for you, but glad to see you back on full form, so to speak :)


Heat
xxx

evil nickname
22 May 2003, 20:48
It's me again! :-)

MB,

Sorry that that one section continues to bother you.

Don't be. My last 'take' on it was just to show that what you wrote, was not what you meant to write. Kay? Fine.

Does that make sense, William? I hope so. If you feel differently about Meat, and obviously, from all you have said here, you do, then, would YOU feel comfortable going to the JS board and posting very positive statements about him??

Yes it does, and if I see the need to post very positive things, I will do so in a heartbeat. But I also believe that if people over there 'hate' Meat for some reason, that that's their problem, they should sort it out, and if they step over the line, they've got something coming. If they try to take a shot on me for 'ficteous reasons' (I like that expression), they've got another thing coming. Same as they do here...

Peat,

ever heard of punctuation? (spell schek please!) Man, I barely can comprehend what you wrote! long sentence... :-)

Meat,

As far as I remember, Nikki said in an interview with MTV that you called him, saying that. When people take something what someone wrote about what someone said you said for the truth, well, you've seen what happened... and bottom line, I don't agree with a lot that's been said.
Oh, and I'm happy ever since you said you'd be back in Holland in December, playing For Crying Out Loud! If you'd throw in I'm Gonna Love Her For Both Of Us for old time's sake, I'd be happy til the day I day, and then some... :-)

Love ya all back the same...

William

[edit: I'm off soon, so most likely: speak ya all tomorrow :-)]

Renegade Angel
22 May 2003, 20:50
Fireball - I was just wondering if you've had any feedback from jim about CHSIB, i.e what's his thoughts on the album?

I must admit the album has grown on me a hell of a lot these past few weeks after playing it non-stop in the car and at home, so I can't wait to hear some of the tracks LIVE in November (only another 6 months to go!!!!)

heat
22 May 2003, 20:55
Not that you're counting, eh, Angel??? :D


Heat
xxx

Peat Loaf
22 May 2003, 21:03
Peat,

ever heard of punctuation? (spell schek please!) Man, I barely can comprehend what you wrote! long sentence... :-)

Well that just about say's it all :) no one else seemed to have a problem comprehending what i was saying :D but then again, you guys have a habbit of only seeing what you want to see

Pete 8)

Renegade Angel
22 May 2003, 21:07
Heat

im counting the days!

Tim
22 May 2003, 21:09
Didn't Know CAPTIALS was yelling...... Sorry....... Just making a point for me. I don't go to the Steinman site....... the 2 times I have, I have read lies . It's not telling the truth that gets me....... They can say anything they what..... They just seem to be angry depressed people (opinion). Don't worry guys I'm fine with what they say until they start quoting me and it's wrong. Example: I Was to have said that Nikki Sixx can out write Jim. The day that happens the Ice will melt at both Poles .( Lets get this straight I like Nikki and what he has done.)< no more miss quotes.> But they had me saying it!! oh by the way it came from the Nikki Sixx web page. But I was the one who said it. I wrote a lot of posts over there on that site about that, but I don't believe they thought it was me, also wrote 4 emails to the person who started it, but he never replied, even to ask if I had said it, he just continued to write the Lie . His web site says he's a big fan of mine. something funny about! Over there I think it's mob rule, and people are afarid to go upstream. but Let's hope he gets the album, then we will be at 400,001. again I don't go there... the thing about the TV shows just came to me in an e-mail. Jim is Great I'm pretty good and together we made 2 great records, BOTTOM LINE (not yelling).
A couple of the records I made without him were ok, but CHSIB is very special (TIM :-) ) and will still be saying that in 25 years, maybe I'll put that on my tombstone along with "told you I was sick". To everyone at both sites Have a great day, and to the people at the Jim site try and be Happy :-) I know it's hard for you but Just say "I know I can , I know I can" (joke).

See You on Tour
We have 2 incredible Guitar players
A dream come true and a girl on guitar OH BOY!! (shouting)

Love Ya
Meat


Hello Meat Loaf!!!
2 new guitar players and a girl on guitar..... man, love to see that. And i know that CHSIB is a good album, but not the best. But that is my opinion. Think you can be very proud of that album!!!
Very funny text Meat Loaf!! Love it. and thanks for saying my name hahahaha.

Hope to talk to you sometimes again!!!

The butcher Tim

Michel
22 May 2003, 21:20
I like two guitar players in the band. Especially when one is a woman.

Meat, I agree with you about the people on Jim's site. They don't see the great work you both did. We all see it here. We like you the most, we like Jim for his lyrics. We like the non-jim work you did (but the jim work is the best. But I hate when they telling lies about you. I also hate the promotion for your single here in The Netherlands from you record company.

R.
22 May 2003, 21:24
Very funny text Meat Loaf!! Love it. and thanks for saying my name hahahaha.
The 1st subtle hint towards Tim made me grin, the 2nd made me :lmao:.
Remember that DIST thread, Tim? :))

original sin
22 May 2003, 21:44
Just picture a stream flowing gently through the valleys......The sun is shining and the breeze is blowing the long grass making it whisper sweet melodies.......

Meat's music will be played long after these reviewers are worm food!!!

Hate to repeat myself but I still feel the same........
I am a Meat Loaf fan pure and simple, Who he works with to me is totally irrevelant (IMO) as I trust his decision's as the true artist, showman and entertainer that he is. He wants to produce quailty...be it music, movies or interviews and hey it's worked fine for me for more years that I care to rememeber.
I would not presume to tell him what to do, or who to work with. All our lifes are full of stress and our own issues and if your playing field is a big as Meat's then the highs and lows of the rollercoaster are going to be even further apart.
Each new venture is an evolution an emerging of different themes, talents and a blend and combination of all.
As a Meat Loaf fan I'm quite happy to leave the decisions as to with who and how to him.......and I trust him not to let me down

dottie
22 May 2003, 22:22
Just picture a stream flowing gently through the valleys......The sun is shining and the breeze is blowing the long grass making it whisper sweet melodies.......

Meat's music will be played long after these reviewers are worm food!!!Precisely - thank you Original Sin - Phew!!

Hate to repeat myself but I still feel the same........
I am a Meat Loaf fan pure and simple, Who he works with to me is totally irrevelant (IMO) as I trust his decision's as the true artist, showman and entertainer that he is. He wants to produce quailty...be it music, movies or interviews and hey it's worked fine for me for more years that I care to rememeber.
I would not presume to tell him what to do, or who to work with. All our lifes are full of stress and our own issues and if your playing field is a big as Meat's then the highs and lows of the rollercoaster are going to be even further apart.
Each new venture is an evolution an emerging of different themes, talents and a blend and combination of all.
As a Meat Loaf fan I'm quite happy to leave the decisions as to with who and how to him.......and I trust him not to let me down

Shane
23 May 2003, 01:45
One more Thing, in Response to ...... Why, as your site calls it ... I Take over shows..........BECAUSE I CAN....... THE SAME WAY AS ROBIN WILLIAMS OR JIM CARY

And please don't stop doing that!

Vickip
23 May 2003, 02:02
David, I really hope you are feeling better now!

Meat, love you. Well said!

Great day to you,

Mariella

I couldn't agree more Mariella :)

Vicki

Vickip
23 May 2003, 02:03
One more Thing, in Response to ...... Why, as your site calls it ... I Take over shows..........BECAUSE I CAN....... THE SAME WAY AS ROBIN WILLIAMS OR JIM CARY

And please don't stop doing that!

Exactly Shane !!
Vicki

MBrevard
23 May 2003, 02:27
Ohhhhh, so nice to come here and everyone is feeling better about things!!!!

Thanks, Meat, for stopping by and letting us know YOU are feeling better today! Means a LOT to all of us! (Capitals 'yelling; only when they go on for a while. :wink: )

Love you back!

William, thank you for the last response you wrote! :lol:

Mariella, Dottie and everyone: Group Hug sounds good to me!!! :D

Lots of love to you all,
MB
xxx

sherrie87
23 May 2003, 04:52
Whew, I was off line for a few days due to multiple graduations and end-of-the-school-year mess and I came back to all of this! I'm sure glad that I've arrived here at the "end" of all this - it all sounds like too much drama if I had "been here" for the thick of it. It makes me flash back to poor Rodney King: "why can't we all just get along?" Thank goodness we can all relax now and just enjoy Meat's music.

Today was my last day at work, no students, so I wore my ML "Everything Louder Than Everything Else" tee and a number of people commented on it. I told each of them that the new album will be out (here in the US) on August 21 and to a man (and woman) they were all excited. A (maybe 17 year old) checkout boy at the grocery even crooned "Anything for Love" for me as he rang up my groceries! The excitement is building here, we just have to get the word out among Americans.
Sherrie

Peat Loaf
23 May 2003, 04:58
LOL yeah it's like the build up to Chistmas well it is for most of the peeps i know and it's still 6 months away over here :)

Pete 8)

evil nickname
23 May 2003, 11:28
Well that just about say's it all :) no one else seemed to have a problem comprehending what i was saying :D but then again, you guys have a habbit of only seeing what you want to see

Pete 8)

well its not that I'm dumb or so but thanks for implying that anyway its just that i find it very difficult as a non-native english speaking person to struggle my way through sentences that go on for like you know ages without as much as one single point or comma in it so that it really becomes a endless sentence my experience learns me that that is unreadable at least for me but anyways thank you for just showing your about as much as good a person as us guys who just see what we want to see it takes one to know one if you happen to catch my drift but no its not your fault heaven forbid it is propably just my thick skull what gets in the way

William }:-)>

Sue K
23 May 2003, 11:51
williiam...

does this mean you're not interested in a group hug?

tink..with hugs to all on a friday morn...end of the week..and beginning of a THREE DAY WEEKEND...YIPPPEEEEE....lol...XO

Louise
23 May 2003, 11:59
Thanks, Tink. That's the first hug I've had all day! :)

CarylB
23 May 2003, 12:13
William .. thanks for my first laugh of the day :))))

Sue K
23 May 2003, 12:14
saaaLOOOT luvvie.. (that's tinkertawk for "you're welcome"..lol...)... and here's wishes for many more...

tink..in a grande mood...momentarily..lol....XO

Sue K
23 May 2003, 12:17
oh my LOAF..it's MAGIC...!! MEAT JUST CAME ON THE DIGICHANNEL SINGING...SINGING...OH...HOT SUMMER NIGHTS...aka TOOK THE WORDS...or vicey versy...

jeez...i'm all aquiver..what a NICE SURPRISE... :-) ...

tink..meatied up... :-) ...

Peat Loaf
23 May 2003, 13:05
Lol well William seems you really do have a problem understanding the English language, well reading it any way. At no point was I accusing you of being Dumb!! I only write facts not assumptions. But I was accusing you of being ignorant to the facts I put in the first post

The point I was making in the second post was, what I said in my fist post was spot on (FACTS !!!) and all you chose to do was comment on the punctuation and nothing of what was said in it (trying to make ME ! look stupid :) ) so please get your facts right next time :D

I do hope you find this a lot easier to comprehend



Kind Regards

Pete 8)

dottie
23 May 2003, 13:41
[quote="tink"]williiam...

does this mean you're not interested in a group hug?

tink..with hugs to all on a friday morn...end of the week..and beginning of a THREE DAY WEEKEND...YIPPPEEEEE....lol...XO[big hugs back - hope I have typed this correctly now - inside quote - dottie/quote]

CarylB
23 May 2003, 14:24
I think Peat Loaf that given the number of people on this board to whom English is a second language, punctuation does help! And I am the first to admire our Dutch friends' superb grasp of our language. But I'm now wondering what a "fist post" is .. delivered with force perhaps? :)

Peat Loaf
23 May 2003, 14:45
I totally agree with you it's fantastic, but being Dyslexic I have to rely heavily on the spell check and as clever as Bill Gates is some times it gets it wrong :D


Pete 8)

evil nickname
23 May 2003, 16:13
Peat,

What I said was not meant personal, I just couldn't get through that text. Dyslexia is not something to joke about (and I wasn't aware you were), as I can tell from a couple of friends who have it. That remark was in no way meant to bring you down, otherwise I wouldn't have put a ':-)' at the end...
But then again, I'm still standing behind every word I said, since your replies still don't convince me that you've been listening to a word I wrote (and that's an intended paradox). But no hard feelings, I hope?

Tink, of course I'm in for a group hug with a fairy! That would be sight (me being 2.05 m / 6 feet 7 inch tall)!

CarylB, thank you... I'm trying the best I can...

And on a last note: I'm off to my parents in half an hour, so I don't know if I'll have the chance to chek in this weekend (or I'll have to kick my 'lil brother away from the computer :-)... but I'll be back... monday the latest...

William

(PS: Pete... Bill $ucks... :-D )

CarylB
23 May 2003, 16:23
William said:
(PS: Pete... Bill $ucks... :-D )

Now THAT's a sentiment I can hug!! :))

Enjoy the weekend :)

martha_mae
23 May 2003, 16:31
Dottie hope your feeling better now the thread is calming down but thanks for posting the original thread, even if it did stray.

Thanks Tink for the group hug i think we all needed that

For those of you lucky to have a 3 day weekend enjoy.

Chris
23 May 2003, 21:47
I ahve to agree with Sin on this one. Meta is the consumate arist adn whoever he chooses to work with he always gives his best and makes great music.

When Meat comes to my newsagents to tell em how to serve customers, then I will presume to tell him who to write songs with!

besty01
24 May 2003, 00:40
can i just say ,i have just read 7 pages of pure s**t
jim writes songs for a living
meat sings songs for a living(apart from acting 8O )
thats it
maybe jim brings the best out of meat
but you have to change because people get bored listing to the same type of songs every time a new album comes out
i will commend meat for taking the plunge years ago for singing songs written by other people
to these narrow minded people who only like meat singing jim songs (wise up)broaden your horizions
as to people slaging off people on other web sites (get a grip)
if it takes jim 7 years to write an album good because we (the real meat+jim fans)are going to enjoy every last second of it
for my pennys worth i really like jim singing bad for good
it suits him
but meat IS a singer and thats why it sounds better when he does it
but back to thread
i think why chsib is alway being compared to booh is because meat said it was his best work since booh
they are 2 very different albums
jim wrote booh
jim didnt write chsib
that is it full stop
i dont kiss anyone arse if i dont like something i say it
if it annoys anyone then sorry
life is not all peaches and cream
but as i have started to notice on mlukfc people are saying what they feel in their hearts
so keep up the good work everyone on mlukfc keep the site going as it is
I LOVE THIS SITE IT IS ROCKING
P.S FIREBALL KEEP ON POSTING

Di
02 Jun 2003, 02:33
WOW!

Meat Loaf you took the words right out of my mouth!

It makes me sick to see "fans" who claim to adore you on Meat lists/sites, yet the same people are less than flattering when it comes to posting on the Jim list/board.

I think the problem is Dance Of The Vampires failed without Meat's wonderful imput; wheras, Couldn't Have Said It Better is near perfection without the inspiration of Steinman!

Meat Loaf has just released the best album of his entire career without the expected element of a sucessfull Meat Loaf album (Jim Steinman), and for this, people are a tad upset.

I am a frequent poster on Dream Pollution - I am a big fan of Jim Steinman, but it is just plain silly. I can say that you have more than likely seen my last posts on Dream Pollution. I have given up on trying to defent Meat there. They are brain-numbed zombies out to idolize Jim, in the EXACT same manner they accuse of of idolizing Meat. I just wonder what the Steinfans would think if they really knew what a load of rubbish I thought Pandora's Box was? At least on the MLUKFC, if you are less than thrilled with something, you will not be stoned by your peers. Yes, some might get angry, but I have never seen personal attacks on other people's personal lives just because of a disagreement on the MLUKFC message board.

On a personal note, this has been a very difficult week for me. I have gone through a hell of a lot, but I want to tell each and every one of you who sent me PM's, e-mails, and chatted with me on the instant messengers...you guys are awesome. There is a love among Meat Loaf fans that I just cannot describe. Never be afraid of your passion, always speak your mind, and as Meat Loaf says at the end of every concert..."never stop rockin!"

ROCK ON FIRE BALL!!!

Hi David,

I just saw this post today, and I would like to say a few things if I may? This is my first post here and I am a fairly new fan of Meat Loaf's. I just discovered him seriously about six months ago; I became familiar with him through Jim Steinman's work. And, I have been listening to barely anything else since first discovering BOOH, BOOH II and Dead Ringer. :)

You say in this post that Dance of the Vampires failed without Meat Loaf's input, and I really do think that is totally incorrect and a bit unfair. Tanz der Vampire is a highly successful show without any influence from Meat Loaf at all, and if any one artist could be attributed to it's success in a recording or performance it would have to be the original artist who played Krolock, Steve Barton. DOTV failed not because Meat Loaf was not involved, it failed because of other factors entirely. Now I can say that in my opinion Meat Loaf certainly would have made a better Krolock than Crawford and the show could possibly have been more a success with him, but I do not believe Meat Loaf's absence sealed the fate of DOTV in any way whatsoever.

Since I cannot get CHSIB in the US, I purchased the new CD recently on a trip to Stuttgart, Germany to see Tanz and I really love it. I think it is a great CD and every time I play it I enjoy it more and more. But to say here that it is the best album of Meat Loaf’s career seems a bit surprising to me. As a new fan, I have been listening to all his work with new found enjoyment, and even if I did not know that BOOH and BOOH II were classics I would know that there is something very magical and special about them indeed. To belittle in any way those recordings to bring up an opinion on this new CD seems so unnecessary to me…. But of course if that is your honest opinion than you are more than entitled to it. :)

I would like to say something now for Meat Loaf although it feels so odd to address him here on this webboard. Thank you SO MUCH for the happy hours that you have brought into my life through your music. I love so much your expressive voice, your passion and vibrancy, and the way you tell a story through your presentation of the songs. I will be seeing you for the very first time in concert in Anaheim, California in August, and I can hardly wait!! :) I would like to wish you every success on the new CD, I think it is absolutely wonderful, and it is so great to hear you singing new material! Also, all positive energy and best wishes on the future recording of Bat III!! Hope it comes soon, and that it brings to you all good things and the continuing success that you so much deserve.
:)
Thanks for the space to post some of my own feelings and thoughts,
Di

Dave
02 Jun 2003, 03:16
I think the problem is Dance Of The Vampires failed without Meat's wonderful imput; wheras, Couldn't Have Said It Better is near perfection without the inspiration of Steinman!

DOTV failed not because Meat Loaf was not involved, it failed because of other factors entirely.

Di,

First off let me say how very EXCITED I am to have you on the MLUKFC message boards!

Your posts are among the few that I miss from the Jim List - overall life is much better having unsubscribed many months ago.

You are a little out of the loop in your response, not your problem becauase you are new here, but let me clear myself up with this.


This whole thread is about the misguided statments of some critics who think that Meat Loaf is near nothing without the input of Jim Steinman.

The argument I was trying to make is that in recent history, Meat has been far more sucessful without Jim than Jim has been without Meat - nothing more - nothing less.

What I was meaning in my statement is that I was bringing up the point that Jim is not infallable without Meat, at least recently. Jim had a lot of problems with the sucess of DOTV (without Meat); whereas Meat Loaf has done some of his greatest work ever (CHISB) without Jim.

Hope that clears things up a little!

tbuck
02 Jun 2003, 03:37
Hi Di,
Nice to see you here. :D

Glad you get to see a concert in Anaheim, just disappointed we won't get to meet you in Cleveland. But, good for you, tell us all about it.

Loved what you had to say to Meat. Always nice to see someone else who appreciates some of the same things you do. I think people in our small town think we're nuts. Nice to have a group here to identify with.

T (for T + Jules)

Sapphire Lady
02 Jun 2003, 17:42
I would just sum this whole thing up by saying that both Meat and Jim are musical geniuses in their own way but put them together and you get a partnership so awesome that the music industry may never see the likes of this again after Bat III.

Di
03 Jun 2003, 02:08
Di,

First off let me say how very EXCITED I am to have you on the MLUKFC message boards!

Your posts are among the few that I miss from the Jim List - overall life is much better having unsubscribed many months ago.

You are a little out of the loop in your response, not your problem becauase you are new here, but let me clear myself up with this.


This whole thread is about the misguided statments of some critics who think that Meat Loaf is near nothing without the input of Jim Steinman.

The argument I was trying to make is that in recent history, Meat has been far more sucessful without Jim than Jim has been without Meat - nothing more - nothing less.

What I was meaning in my statement is that I was bringing up the point that Jim is not infallable without Meat, at least recently. Jim had a lot of problems with the sucess of DOTV (without Meat); whereas Meat Loaf has done some of his greatest work ever (CHISB) without Jim.

Hope that clears things up a little!

Hi David,

Thank you so much for the warm welcome. :) I actually have done a bit of lurking here, and signed up for the forum a few months ago. Didn't really feel I had too much to contribute though as I am pretty much absorbing still.

I am very sorry to hear that you unsubscribed from the Jim list. :(

I do appreciate the clarification on what you meant in the prior post you made in this thread that I was addressing, it did read quite different to me than what it now seems you had intended. I still do not necessarily agree with your points or arguments, but I really am appreciative of being able to post in response here and receive such a very polite reply to my own thoughts. :)

To tbuck,

I am so sorry about Cleveland! I know a few Steinfans are planning on going to that concert and I would have loved to have met up with you! But Anaheim is just so close, and with the recent trip I took to Germany I opted to get tickets to a concert that I could attend without hopping on a plane. ;) I WILL tell you all about it, I more than likely will be bursting to rave about it someplace where people will be willing to listen. ;)

Thank you again to you both for the welcome!
:)
Di

Asha
03 Jun 2003, 02:13
I don't think anybody minds if you rave about a concert meat did here, Pandora.
BTW welcome on these forums..

In this topic many things were said that people misunderstood..and so we got into a big blowout here, but I think most hurts are healed...

Asha

Baal ??
03 Jun 2003, 02:23
..................hi................ :D

**But they had me saying it!! oh by the way it came from the Nikki Sixx web page. But I was the one who said it. I wrote a lot of posts over there on that site about that, but I don't believe they thought it was me.**

I'm the one who eventually posted the link to the nikki sixx website. You never replied to my post, confirming or denying. I believed it was you, and tried to provide some evidence for *our lies*. It is far to say that we on the Steinman board live on the crumbs they feed us. Steinman is not the most publically oriented writer in the world, and also not the most poplular. We tend to flock around and defend his *hounor*. The quote did not sit well, especially after we heard the song in question. And we were (are) still cheesed off after the Crawford Fackup Spectacular regarding DOTV, and most of us think Meat would make a powerful krolock. Also, it is amusing to know, Meat did Rockaby Hamlet with Rory Dodd at the Minskof theatre in 1975, same theatre as Dotv played in.

**also wrote 4 emails to the person who started it, but he never replied, even to ask if I had said it, he just continued to write the Lie**

You know, some people suxs.


**again I don't go there... the thing about the TV shows just came to me in an e-mail. **
Um, I posted about your TV shows in Sweden and Norway, if that is what you are talking about, and if so, I'm sorry about the remarks I made. But, I really did not understand the meaning about the red bucket, and you could have thrown in a date for scandinavian release of the album. I loved how you changed chairs with the interviewer, and the lesbian of the year joke was priceless... CONGRATULATIONS !


**A couple of the records I made without him were ok, but CHSIB is very special (TIM :-) ) **


I personally love the song Lost Love.... Why not put it out again ? It got lost off the midnight album, degraded to a Maxi single.


**and to the people at the Jim site try and be Happy :-) I know it's hard for you but Just say "I know I can , I know I can" (joke).**

Hehe, did you hear Michael Crawford sing Original Sin ? We had to live with that shit..... Jokes we can take alright...


See You on Tour

Are you plannng Oslo ? Or should I book the train to Stockholm ? Need to pack my blankie if so....

Regards, Baal

evil nickname
03 Jun 2003, 12:31
Hey Baal! Nice to see you here too!

Markus
04 Jun 2003, 12:36
I agree with MB, Eveyone in the band has had words with that site ,We have never understood them. Do not understand that site.

Meat

After that I doubt itīs Meat posting here.... - sad but true.

Markus.

CarylB
04 Jun 2003, 13:43
I on the other hand doubt Meat would attend a Meet and Greet organised by an imposter!! To quote Himself .. get over it

Raptor
04 Jun 2003, 14:04
Markus how can you say that? How do you know it's not Meat posting here? How can you say "sad but true", how the hell do you know it's true that he is not posing here?

Meat seems pretty p*ssed off about it and if I were him I'd meet up to sort all the BS out. But like he said, they won't meet him.

Dave
04 Jun 2003, 14:40
I agree with MB, Eveyone in the band has had words with that site ,We have never understood them. Do not understand that site.

Meat

After that I doubt itīs Meat posting here.... - sad but true.

Markus.

Markus,

I cannot speak for Meat, as I have not had the pleasure of an audience with him, but I have heard negative comments about Dream Pollution from various band members.

R.
04 Jun 2003, 20:25
After that I doubt itīs Meat posting here.... - sad but true.
It's him. Without a doubt.

Testify
04 Jun 2003, 20:32
i do believe its him. but im just curious of how you know?!?!

Markus
04 Jun 2003, 22:00
I agree with MB, Eveyone in the band has had words with that site ,We have never understood them. Do not understand that site.

Meat

After that I doubt itīs Meat posting here.... - sad but true.

Markus.


I just canīt believe Meat IS like that. To judge from a few posts he read on RR. I believe he isnīt that narrow minded! REALLY! And "sad" is the fact that posts like these make it hard to believe (for me) that itīs really Meat. I still believe, but I wonder WHY he acts like that...!?

People, please donīt twist my words. Meat himself knows I adore his work like I adore Jims work. Told it to him in private messages before. Like I told him that I love "CHSIB". You can see: All I wantet to say is that I really love this great opportunity to speak to the man who has the voice! Thank you Meat for coming here and for talking with (some) of us from time to time. You made a dream come true Jim will NEVER do.

I never knew why there is this disunion. I never understood this and surely I never will. Maybe itīs only because of those really blinded fans on both sides that are no longer able to criticise or to take positive meant criticism!? Anyway - I still hope Meat comes back to the RR and talks to us only for a few times. He should know there are some people telling things that are just not true. Some may be true but he just donīt like it. Ah well, that happens to ME and ALL people ALL the time. We have to deal with it or just to ignore them. ;-)

How someone can state that the people on RR hate Meat is far beyond me. Thereīs just NO basis for such a comment. Of course they worship Steinman. Itīs a Steinman board. Here you worship Meat and thatīs okay! But the people on RR also say that Jim receycles too much. That he made bad mistakes on broadway, etc... But to say we hate someone only because we state some things we donīt like is.... well, a reason to consult a doctor if you ask me.

Calm down and talk. Thatīs all that helps. *T*A*L*K*I*N*G* not yelling.

Markus.
(enjoying CHSIB and waiting for BATIII)

Raptor
05 Jun 2003, 15:57
what is the site address of the Jim Steinman site RR?

evil nickname
05 Jun 2003, 17:44
try JimSteinman.com for a start...

Testify
05 Jun 2003, 19:42
i shall repeat myself shall i, i believe that it is Meat that come on here!! BUT HOW DO WE KNOW????


Plz answer me someone.

dottie
05 Jun 2003, 19:55
i shall repeat myself shall i, i believe that it is Meat that come on here!! BUT HOW DO WE KNOW????


Plz answer me someone.

Have Faith it is believe me

mariella
05 Jun 2003, 20:03
i shall repeat myself shall i, i believe that it is Meat that come on here!! BUT HOW DO WE KNOW????


Plz answer me someone.

Have Faith it is believe me

Yes, it is!
Have always believed it was Meat but was at the M&G in Amsterdam, Fire Ball talked about the forum there. Wanted to know our 'nicknames' and where Dottie was!!! :lol:

Some other forum-members have also met him and talked about the forum.
He said his nickname was Fire Ball on Dutch radio and talked about it on TOTP.

Great day to you,

Mariella

Peat Loaf
05 Jun 2003, 20:22
Yes and i can 1,000,000 % confirme that Fire Ball IS !!! Meat Loaf and believe me i should know

Pete 8)

Testify
05 Jun 2003, 20:34
i BELIEVE IT IS HIM, i was just curious how!!

thanks

mariella
05 Jun 2003, 20:50
i BELIEVE IT IS HIM, i was just curious how!!

thanks

I didn't mean in any way you didn't believe it was Meat. If I would have thought that I wouldn't have answered it.

Dick the fire Wizard (please don't look at the spelling) has been to an Irish tv show with his mom, posted about it here aswell. Now, if I could only remember the name, Kelly-show??

Love,

Mariella

Testify
05 Jun 2003, 21:12
i heard him mention his nickname on TOTPs

Guppie
05 Jun 2003, 21:44
Plus he told R. to tell Guppie that Fire Ball was really him.
(I couldn't believe it was him at first, but now I know) :)

Testify
05 Jun 2003, 21:46
Oh rite, so is R. like good friends with him?? or summin??

R.
05 Jun 2003, 22:14
Could we please stop hijacking threads?
Post on topic, please!

Guppie
05 Jun 2003, 22:27
Sorry, I only read the last page, thought it was about Fire Ball :roll:

madonna123968848
29 Jul 2003, 23:05
So many twats in the world ....

Ignore them and God bless ya Meat ...

Steven Steinman
30 Jul 2003, 00:41
Wow what a topic its all going on. I only started looking in on you guys a day or two ago, what have I been missing. I think you all need chill pills calm down and just sit back put on a Meaty album and have a glass of wine.

Sapphire Lady
30 Jul 2003, 10:52
sit back put on a Meaty album and have a glass of wine.

Sounds good to me :mrgreen:

Peat Loaf
30 Jul 2003, 12:13
PMSL Hi Steve

I'de watch what i say around here bud peeps tend to be a bit sensertive when it comes to bad mouthing the Big Guy :)

Pete 8)

Bart
30 Jul 2003, 12:56
Why? he is not a saint? He is a giant Wangerian Siegfried from hell! :D