What Bad for Good could have been [Archive]

Mr. Happy

09 Mar 2010, 11:26

This really is a pointless post...but I found these on YouTube and just felt that I had to share them

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HcWqOe5iBl0 - Meat Loaf, on the ORIGINAL bad for good song.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N73QlcodOy0 - Meat Loaf, version of Dance in my Pants

While I've loved ALL the covers that have been done of the Bad for Good album songs (particularly the ones on Bat 2), the ones off Bat 2 lacked the Steinman feel to them. These videos are a good example of what the Bad for Good album could have been - terrible time for Meat to have lost his voice. Particularly the versions of Stark Raving Love and Left in the Dark were amazing on the album - sadly, I didn't particularly take to Meats version of Left in the Dark and am still waiting for a Stark Raving Love cover :D

Basically, I'm just depressed that we missed out on what was potentially an amazing album. Steinmans voice simply didnt cut it for the songs.

Evil One

09 Mar 2010, 12:58

You'll wait forever for Meat to do Stark Raving Love. He's said that he hates the song.

carole

09 Mar 2010, 15:46

Welcome to the Forum, nice to have another Aussie among us.

Carole

besty

09 Mar 2010, 18:23

Evil One

09 Mar 2010, 19:10

I hated the sound of the piano on the Bat 3 version, it sounded like a cheapy upright thing that we had at primary school.
Yes. I'm not the only one who thinks this!

DazLoaf01

09 Mar 2010, 19:44

Yeah, I would of loved the Bat III version to have been like this. A missed opportunity.

Wario

09 Mar 2010, 20:05

glad you liked the videos i posted. the whole concert is great.

AndrewG

09 Mar 2010, 20:42

I absolutely adore this live version of BFG, and you're right Jimmys voice just didn't do the song justice on the original and the pacing was all wrong on the Bat 3 version, plus I hated the sound of the piano on the Bat 3 version, it sounded like a cheapy upright thing that we had at primary school.

DIMP is just a silly song and to be honest it doesn't sound like Meat is enjoying singing it very much in this live version IMO.

Indeed there was not enough piano on Bat 3 and it did not sound full enough. Certainly on BFG that was wrong plus the fact there were not enough guitar solos on there and why was the God Speed part missing. I loved that bit on the original. If they were running out of time and that was the reason they should have cut off one of the other songs or so. The Brian May intro was awesome though as were Meat's vocals. Nothing wrong there imo.

A Slice Of English

09 Mar 2010, 20:51

Well I'm going to chip in my five cents worth and say that I LOVED the Bat 3 version and it was right up there in my top 3 on that particular album.

I dispute the "lack of Steinman feel" about Bat 2 as well. that album was and will always remain a masterclass in sheer musical perfection. That album holds very very special meaning to me and I could listen to it daily without ever getting tired of it. For me, that album was like the Sun and the Moon coming into perfect alignment and as much as I have enjoyed Meat's other albums over the years, Bat 2 remains my all time favourite.

daveake

09 Mar 2010, 20:59

I dispute the "lack of Steinman feel" about Bat 2 as well.

I think he means Bat 3.

Hope so anyway.

A Slice Of English

09 Mar 2010, 21:02

While I've loved ALL the covers that have been done of the Bad for Good album songs (particularly the ones on Bat 2), the ones off Bat 2 lacked the Steinman feel to them. These videos are a good example of what the Bad for Good album could have been - terrible time for Meat to have lost his voice. Particularly the versions of Stark Raving Love and Left in the Dark were amazing on the album - sadly, I didn't particularly take to Meats version of Left in the Dark and am still waiting for a Stark Raving Love cover :D

Basically, I'm just depressed that we missed out on what was potentially an amazing album. Steinmans voice simply didnt cut it for the songs.

Nop, think he's quite clear in his opening post he means Bat 2 :)

WhenItComes2LovingU

09 Mar 2010, 21:07

Let's try this again:

While I've loved ALL the covers that have been done of the Bad for Good album songs (particularly the ones on Bat 2), the ones off Bat 2 lacked the Steinman feel to them.

He means the Steinman covers that weren't on Bat 2. It's just worded badly.

A Slice Of English

09 Mar 2010, 21:11

Ok NOW it make some sense, lol

However, I still disagree with him!!

PanicLord

09 Mar 2010, 22:13

I think it was the general lack of someone trying to kill a grand piano that makes Bat 3 feel not quite properly Batty (plus of course some of the non-Steinman songs). Saying that, as a Meat Loaf album (forgetting the Bat title) it is still an awesome rock record.

Anyway, great youtubes - thanks!

Jayd

09 Mar 2010, 22:46

I thought myself Bat 3's version was fine, one of the better songs. Left In The Dark as well was a lot better thn the BFG version. :D

lorenzoduke

10 Mar 2010, 00:01

I've got to disagree with you on Meat's version of Left In The Dark, it's one of my favourite things he ever did. The production on Welcome To The Neighborhood is crisp, dark and perfect for the most part, and I think its a very underrated album.

Any of you guys see Meat do Left In The Dark in Sheffield on the Neighborhood tour? That's still my favourite performance of a single song by anyone that I've ever seen live.

MeatLoafFanRay

10 Mar 2010, 00:06

I thought myself Bat 3's version was fine, one of the better songs. Left In The Dark as well was a lot better thn the BFG version. :D

I was thinking the exact same thing. Personally I prefer the Bat 3 version of Bad For Good to this live verison. Don't get me wrong I think this live version is really good but I think I prefer way Meat performs Bad for Good live now.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-sty-IkaA4

Evil One

10 Mar 2010, 00:10

The best Bad For Good is the Steinman version. It's a shame it doesn't have Meat's vocals!

PanicLord

10 Mar 2010, 00:18

I thought myself Bat 3's version was fine, one of the better songs. Left In The Dark as well was a lot better thn the BFG version. :D

I agree! 2 great recordings of those songs. Just would have liked a teeny bit more pianocide on BFG. But when I first heard Meat sing "for the good of one hell of a NIGHT" it sent shivers down my spine. Awesome.

CarylB

10 Mar 2010, 00:20

Well I'm going to chip in my five cents worth and say that I LOVED the Bat 3 version and it was right up there in my top 3 on that particular album.

Me too :) For me it's the voice .. the Bat 3 version is wonderful, and live on the tour it blew me away each time. To me the album is great, and no less a Bat album than any other.

@ Lorenzoduke who said:
I've got to disagree with you on Meat's version of Left In The Dark, it's one of my favourite things he ever did. The production on Welcome To The Neighborhood is crisp, dark and perfect for the most part, and I think its a very underrated album.

Any of you guys see Meat do Left In The Dark in Sheffield on the Neighborhood tour? That's still my favourite performance of a single song by anyone that I've ever seen live.

Yes to both :) A very under-rated album, immaculate in so many ways. And whilst I'd find it hard to say any song is my favourite performed live, because there have been so many memorable performances in so many concerts, that rendition of Left In The Dark was very, very special. I'm not sure I appreciated it properly on the album until the live performance .. which is often the best gift one takes away from a concert :)

Caryl

besty

10 Mar 2010, 00:21

JayD, I agree with you, the BFG on Bat 3 was fine, maybe I came across as a bit critical in my comment, BUT the live version posted in this thread is absolutely breathtaking in parts and I think the OP was saying that it would have been amazing to hear BFG done when Meat was at his peak, and I agree with that.

On he other side of the coin, I think there are certain songs which will always sound better live than in the studio and I think this proves that BFG is one of those songs. A perfect example of another one is "Frying pan", I still think it sounds tooo slow on Bat 2, although the production is fantastic, I prefer the pacing of the live version (and actually the version on "Bad for good" in terms of pacing works better, although everything else is better on the BAT 2 version IMO).

As for left in the dark, it's a toss up for me, I really like the spoken intro on Bad for Good and both Jim and Meat have the intensity in their versions, but quite simply Meat is a much better singer than Jim so Meat's version edges it. For what it's worth I think the production of the Cecilia Wennersten version beats them both and also it's clearly a female vocal and I don't like Streissand!!!

This is the beauty of loving music for me, the fact that we all like different versions of the same song and long may it continue.

Evil One

10 Mar 2010, 00:43

the Bat 3 version is wonderful, and live on the tour it blew me away each time.Caryl
At the show I went to on the Bat 3 tour it was amazing. However a good many people on here will be basing their opinion on the 3 Bats live DVD which contained a less than amazing BFG.

Having said that, The Lost Boys & Golden Girls arrangement of BFG was much better than the 3 Bats arrangement and the Bat 3 studio version, which I believe was the initial point of this post.

As for the comment above there are many songs that Meat does much better live such as Lemon, Frying Pan, Midnight, Modern Girl, most of Bat 1... There are also songs that are never as good live as on the album: FCOL, AFL, RARD, Bad Attitude... It's just a case of swings and roundabouts.

batcity

10 Mar 2010, 00:45

Bad for good meat s version sucked on bat 3, if he's put it out on Bat 2 it would have been really good.... I love when he did BFG at birmingham 88 (brings back memories of in my opnion the best concert he ever did)...

I hate Meats version of Left In The Dark!!! it's not got a patch on Steinmans Version,

I love Jims Bad for good cd, its one of my favourites... I think the stuff he's done with steinman is brilliant.. the newer stuff... it hasnt got the magic!!!

I listened to Los angeloser, good song, catchy, annoying in parts..;)

Evil One

10 Mar 2010, 00:48

I may be wrong, but I think Meat didn't want it on Bat 2 as it was too similar to Bat Out Of Hell. Years later, when looking for Steinman material to use on Bat 3 he changed his mind...:whistle:

Wario

10 Mar 2010, 03:42

I may be wrong, but I think Meat didn't want it on Bat 2 as it was too similar to Bat Out Of Hell. Years later, when looking for Steinman material to use on Bat 3 he changed his mind...:whistle:

If they never got int oan arguement in teh first place imagine the world:

Meat's THEORETICAL discograhy if Jimmy and meat stayed together:

BOOH (1977)
BFG (1981)
Dead Ringer (1983)
Original Sin (1985)
BOOH 2 (1987) - ten years apart
Live at Wembley (1989)
WTTN (1993)
BOOH 3 (1997) - twenty years apart
Live with the MSO (2002) - yeah that would be 4 years before CHSIB and would be ALL Jim/Meat stuff. On top of that 2002 was the last great year for Meat's "Three hour show" capability. thats three hours of MSO. i think noone would argue at that. its already a freaking A+++ release.
CHSIB (2006)
HCTB (2010)

i notice I have NCTB, CHSIB, BA, and WTTN which werent jim involved. But he still could've done independent work.

Only downer; we would never have gotten teh Bad Attitude album, which (in my mind) has the best songs (all but the last two are fantastic) then any album of the 80's. Modern Girl would be an exceptional loss :(

Julie in the rv mirror

10 Mar 2010, 04:11

As for left in the dark, it's a toss up for me, I really like the spoken intro on Bad for Good and both Jim and Meat have the intensity in their versions, but quite simply Meat is a much better singer than Jim so Meat's version edges it. For what it's worth I think the production of the Cecilia Wennersten version beats them both and also it's clearly a female vocal and I don't like Streissand!!!

I'm in the (I think) minority of people who prefer Jim's version of Left in the Dark. The spoken intro is a plus. And while I'd agree that, in general, Meat is a better singer than Jim, there is just something in Jim's voice that nails the emotion in the song for me. I don't care for Streisand's version either, although I like her for the most part.

Mr. Happy

10 Mar 2010, 07:20

You'll wait forever for Meat to do Stark Raving Love. He's said that he hates the song.
really? D: I thought it was a great song, definitly my favorite from BFG

Welcome to the Forum, nice to have another Aussie among us.

Carole
Thanks :D Hoping to enjoy my stay here

Let's try this again:

While I've loved ALL the covers that have been done of the Bad for Good album songs (particularly the ones on Bat 2), the ones off Bat 2 lacked the Steinman feel to them.

He means the Steinman covers that weren't on Bat 2. It's just worded badly.

Ow. Typo. I meant Bat out of Hell 3 - Bat 2 remains my favorite album EVER. I definitly enjoyed the songs from Bat 3, but they seemed to lack that epic feel the ones from Bat 2 had applied to them. That said, I still think I prefer this version of BFG - dunno why, the version from Bat 3 seemed to lack the soul this one has

I'm in the (I think) minority of people who prefer Jim's version of Left in the Dark. The spoken intro is a plus. And while I'd agree that, in general, Meat is a better singer than Jim, there is just something in Jim's voice that nails the emotion in the song for me. I don't care for Streisand's version either, although I like her for the most part

I'm with you :D While I enjoyed Meats version of the song on WTTN, there were some aspects of it that were done much better in Steinmans version. The spoken bits at the start and end were great in the BFG version - other then that, I felt that the first chorus was a bit...off, in some way. The piano was done on an electric piano and INCREDIBLY dumbed down in Meat's version, and this was the main thing that killed the song for me. The piano in the BFG version was simply amazing - it remains my favorite piano ballad to date (alongside Objects).

Just my opinion :D

Julie in the rv mirror

10 Mar 2010, 08:42

The piano in the BFG version was simply amazing - it remains my favorite piano ballad to date (alongside Objects).

Just my opinion :D

That would be "The Professor" Roy Bittan! :D (on Left in the Dark, not Objects).

I love Objects as well, but I think my favorites are Heaven Can Wait and For Crying Out Loud.

daveake

10 Mar 2010, 09:34

daveake

10 Mar 2010, 09:36

I'm in the (I think) minority of people who prefer Jim's version of Left in the Dark. The spoken intro is a plus. And while I'd agree that, in general, Meat is a better singer than Jim, there is just something in Jim's voice that nails the emotion in the song for me. I don't care for Streisand's version either, although I like her for the most part.

Same minority as me then.

AndyK

10 Mar 2010, 11:16

carole

10 Mar 2010, 12:10

[QUOTE
As for the comment above there are many songs that Meat does much better live such as Lemon, Frying Pan, Midnight, Modern Girl, most of Bat 1... There are also songs that are never as good live as on the album: FCOL, AFL, RARD, Bad Attitude... It's just a case of swings and roundabouts.[/QUOTE]

I have to disagree with that, AFL and FCOL, especially the MSO DVD one, are absolutely brilliant live. The passion in Meat's voice when he sings them live is absolutely breathtaking.

Carole

MeatLoafFanRay

10 Mar 2010, 13:35

Meat's version of Left In The Dark imo is the best, but it's a shame the spoken intro wasn't included on it though.

daveake

10 Mar 2010, 13:49

Meat's version of Left In The Dark imo is the best, but it's a shame the spoken intro wasn't included on it though.

I much prefer Jim's version. However I did see Meat singing it live once, and thought that was much better than his recorded version.

Dave

TSR

10 Mar 2010, 14:09

I think Meat's Left In The Dark was 'dumbed down' if you like for a reason ...If it carried the epic Bat II style and sound it would of stuck out like a proverbial 'sore thumb' (more so than it ended up doing) and would therefore of totally broken the continutity of the record, which as we know was a story and not just a collection of songs.

I much prefer (musically & stylistically) the original recordings of both 'Original Sin' & 'Left In The Dark, but if they were too true to the originals, then they just would not of worked on 'Welcome To The Neighbourhood'

Evil One

10 Mar 2010, 18:55

I have to disagree with that, AFL and FCOL, especially the MSO DVD one, are absolutely brilliant live. The passion in Meat's voice when he sings them live is absolutely breathtaking.

Carole
I never said they weren't. Just that the studio versions are better.

daveake

10 Mar 2010, 19:40

Agreed. FCOL on Bat 1 goes down as being the best vocal performance ever, by anyone, in my book.

WhenItComes2LovingU

11 Mar 2010, 04:29

That would be "The Professor" Roy Bittan! :D (on Left in the Dark, not Objects).

Actually, not on "Left in the Dark" either. Piano for that track was by Steve Margoshes. (For those about to correct me, I'm referring to BFG, not WTTN.)

Julie in the rv mirror

11 Mar 2010, 09:02

Actually, not on "Left in the Dark" either. Piano for that track was by Steve Margoshes. (For those about to correct me, I'm referring to BFG, not WTTN.)

Really? Where did you find this? I ask because I purposely went over the liner notes again before I posted this, and unless I missed it, I only see Roy listed as playing piano.

WhenItComes2LovingU

12 Mar 2010, 21:11

Matty Morrice24

12 Mar 2010, 23:31

No Weinberg on Drums either for this one. They must have had something on with Springsteen at the time of recording LITD.
Good topic this & a lot of interesting posts. Love that 1988 tour. I prefer the Vienna BFG version actually (Wario Loaf also put that up & it's concert footage! Simply amazing) The guitar solo after "put yer foot on the gas let it go" rips up & I like the 'heavier' feel to it compared to B'ham. He played The Music Hall in Aberdeen, my hometown, & I wish I could go back in time & see it because in a venue like that it would have been mesmorising. My jaw would be on the ground all night.
And yes I agree with poster about FCOL vocal on Bat. Will never be beaten, it's simply stunning.

Julie in the rv mirror

13 Mar 2010, 07:52

The liner notes at the back of the CD insert aren't enough. You have to look at the listings for each song. The band for "Left in the Dark" is:

Jim Steinman: Vocals, Voice and Assorted Keyboards
Neal Jason: Bass
Steve Margoshes: Piano
Alan Schwartzberg: Drums
Backing Vocals: Rory Dodd, Eric Troyer
Orchestra Arranged and Conducted by Charles Calello

We must have different CD booklets- mine doesn't break down the credits for each song.

So, I went to my vinyl copy (yes, I am old ), and didn't find it there either, until I looked at the picture sleeve from the 45rpm of Rock and Roll Dreams, which was included with the album. And yes, you are correct.
As I said, I'm old. ;)

Bruce was recording and touring with The River around that time, which may explain Roy and Max not being on LITD.

renegadeangel

21 Mar 2010, 00:08

If there had never been the "falling out" after Bat, and if Meat hadn't had the vocal problems he had around Deadringer, then I don't think there would ever have been an album titled Bat Out Of Hell II, and since many of the songs featured on Bat II were recycled from BfG and Original Sin then any album released in that time frame would have been susbstantially different to the Bat II we know now, likewise anyting released when WTTN and Bat III were released.

The Bat II title came around as part of the reconciliation between Meat and Jim and the subsequent marketing strategy from Virgin. If there hadn't been a split in the first place there would have been no need for a reconciliation or a comeback.

This is very true. Except that I think that a falling out was inevitable. Jim is far too slow to keep up to the pace of what Meat wanted for releasing albums. Meat released Deadringer in 81, MNATLAF in 83, BA in 85, and BBIS in 87.
He has since indicated that he would have preferred to wait on more Steinman songs but in that same period, Jim actually only had 7 songs up to 1988. That would have been one album for Meat.
After that he had Pandoras Box which he wrote six more songs. So even if that was another Meat album, it would have added up to only four albums for the 80s. Not too bad right? Almost enough for an album every two years. Except Jim takes forever to do anything. Even with Meat pushing him, I doubt we would have seen anything more than this:

Renegade Angel 1981
Dead Ringer 1984
album 1988
album 1992
Greatest hits 1996

All this is very possible if you take into account the touring and promotional schedule and the fact that Jim might be working with other artists as well. Jim would have wanted to go further and even be more over the top with each album. And that would take more time.
Would have been an interesting discography though.