Meat's posts [Archive] - mlukfc.com Forums

Kathy

22 Apr 2010, 00:36

I have been swamped lately, and couldn't visit this site in time to see firsthand what Meat said yesterday. Some of his posts were copied to me privately but I still haven't seen them all. When a heckler causes a problem, Meat often ends up speaking "for" many of us by addressing the heckler directly, using language we cannot. Naturally I wish Meat didn't have to do this, and the heckler's posts could simply be deleted. But when Meat feels forced to reply, I always feel better after he does. I wish the thread hadn't been deleted.

I have kept quiet about the issue of a forum for the new MeatLoaf.net, thinking it's Meat's choice, and if he prefers to post here, fine, I'll post here, too. But I come here primarily to read what Meat has to say. I don't want anyone deleting Meat's posts (other than Meat himself, of course). Locking a thread that has become combative makes a certain amount of sense, but if you do, cut it off right after Meat's last post, and leave it up. In his deleted posts, Meat was expressing opinions and feelings I have shared for some time, but if I posted so freely it would be considered flaming, and rightly so. But Meat should be under no such constraints! Is this a double standard? You bet it is!!!! If Meat can't say whatever he wants on a forum that bears his name, he shouldn't waste his time here, and since I want to read his uncensored comments, neither should I.

Strong words coming from me, but I feel strongly about it. I am hoping that the truth of "you can't have your cake and eat it too" will sink in, the choice will be made to accept the honor of hosting (and not muzzling!) Meat, and the thread (up to and including his last post, with the rest lopped off) will be restored.

hopefully, Kathy

carole

22 Apr 2010, 00:46

Well said Kathy, I am in complete agreement. Meat should be able to come here without being attacked or disrespected. I always feel badly for him when people are rude to him and he has every right to respond in kind. I was annoyed to see his posts had been removed as well.

Carole

duke knooby

22 Apr 2010, 00:47

But Meat should be under no such constraints! Is this a double standard? You bet it is!!!!

gotta agree 100% with you on that

TheDoode

22 Apr 2010, 00:49

Yep, you get my vote! Meat shouldn't have to put up with that sh*t, and he sure as hell shouldn't have to put up with it here (of all places). I mean, the name on the top is MEAT LOAF. Clues in the title, people!

Doode. :cool:

Sarge

22 Apr 2010, 00:53

It was a pretty ugly thread and I'm glad it has been removed. I do not favor censorship but with regard to the reputation of this forum, I think it was the right decision. People who aren't familiar with the background and who stumble over such threads could easily misinterpret them.

duke knooby

22 Apr 2010, 00:58

not one for gossip... but i wanna know who said what

and how did i miss it?

clpmss

22 Apr 2010, 01:03

I missed it too. like to know who and what set him off again

suzieq

22 Apr 2010, 01:14

I'm going to have to agree 100% with Kathy here. I was also made aware of posts that were deleted/locked. By the time I got around to logging on the posts were already gone. I wished to have seen it because Meat does say what others and I cannot. He's the only one that can call someone out on junk and should be able to freely. If we all started defending Meat or Meat's principles then it would turn into a virtual riot....and that isn't enjoyable for anyone. Nor would it a flattering show of a forum, IMO.

So what happens, the more passive person sits on their hands to not go into severe defensive mode and wait for their knight in shining armor to say something.

Today, Kathy, you are my knight....Thank you so much for stepping up to the plate so eloquently. I think the thread should show itself as well. I'm all for Meat saying whatever it is he needs to say and when he needs to say it.

It was a pretty ugly thread and I'm glad it has been removed. I do not favor censorship but with regard to the reputation of this forum, I think it was the right decision. People who aren't familiar with the background and who stumble over such threads could easily misinterpret them.

The reputation of this forum is going to end up being the place for fans to beat up on Meat if it isn't careful here. As well as, the forum in which Meat was censored from which bears his name.

Suzieq

MeatGrl1

22 Apr 2010, 01:14

I have to totally agree with you Kathy.
Love seeing 'Fire Ball' back on here and as you say he has the most right to be here and as it's his site he should be able to post whatever the hell he wants to however I do think sometimes peoples intents are fishing for a confrontation and in turn that ruins it for the latter. Sad but true :shrug:.

Sarge

22 Apr 2010, 01:16

Well, Suzieq, I read the respective thread in it's entirety. What Kathy, you and others defend is something that makes me very, very sad.

Cherry.Loaf

22 Apr 2010, 01:18

Wow thats shocking that people would verbally attack Meat on a foroum for fans I hate trolls

Vickip

22 Apr 2010, 01:19

TheDoode

22 Apr 2010, 01:20

I read the entire thing too, and Meat was completely justified in everything that he wrote. I know I'm relatively 'new' here, but the exact thing that's been getting to Meat has bothered me since day one. And that's the sad thing - if it wasn't for so much negative emphasis by a very small number of people, this would be a great place for everyone.

Doode.

suzieq

22 Apr 2010, 01:24

Well, Suzieq, I read the respective thread in it's entirety. What Kathy, you and others defend is something that makes me very, very sad.

What saddens me is the reason he has to do it at all. Unfortunately we cannot control others and they are going to run their mouths off. Meat should have the double standard and be treated as a guest of honor here.

@Vicki if Meat indeed requested the thread to be closed....I will respect that wish.

Kathy

22 Apr 2010, 01:29

What saddens me is the reason he has to do it at all.

Exactly!! ..and Meat didn't even lose his temper. I agreed with everything he said and the way he said it.

-Kathy

Vickip

22 Apr 2010, 01:31

What saddens me is the reason he has to do it at all.

Exactly :(

MeatGrl1

22 Apr 2010, 01:33

I agree Kathy ... Meat should be able to post whatever he wants and made to feel comfortable,
especially here. I enjoy reading Meat's posts, and it bothers me to see him get upset and have
to defend himself.

Having said that, I admit I didn't have a chance to read through the entire thread yesterday morning.
But from what I did see, I agree with Sarge .. it was pretty ugly and I was glad to see it removed.
Maybe Meat himself even asked someone to delete it :??: IMO it was in his best interest in this case.

It did get extreemly ugly and I am not defending that but it's sad that Meat was pushed to that extreem on his own forum !!

I read the entire thing too, and Meat was completely justified in everything that he wrote. I know I'm relatively 'new' here, but the exact thing that's been getting to Meat has bothered me since day one. And that's the sad thing - if it wasn't for so much negative emphasis by a very small number of people, this would be a great place for everyone.

Doode.

I totally 100% agree with you and I also read the entire thing including Meat's thread AFTER the original got locked. And yes it's sad that a few have to spoil it for others who are excited and want to share Meat's excitement and enthusiasm.

duke knooby

22 Apr 2010, 01:34

if it wasn't for so much negative emphasis by a very small number of people, this would be a great place for everyone.

Doode.

didnt see the thread so can't comment on its content... however,

if theres a negative emphasis from a small number of people? why is that a problem?

respect/opinions/choice/preference etc

The majority have said how great it is, the reviews have been very positive, the sales have been strong

why are you soo insecure that someone may not worship something?

YOU ALL HAVE OPINIONS, YOURE OPINION IS NO MORE IMPORTANT THAN ANYONE ELSE'

TheDoode

22 Apr 2010, 01:39

didnt see the thread so can't comment on its content... however,

if theres a negative emphasis from a small number of people? why is that a problem?

respect/opinions/choice/preference etc

The majority have said how great it is, the reviews have been very positive, the sales have been strong

why are you soo insecure that someone may not worship something?

YOU ALL HAVE OPINIONS, YOURE OPINION IS NO MORE IMPORTANT THAN ANYONE ELSE'

With all the love in the world, don't call me 'insecure'. It's not about people 'worshipping', it's about multiple unessesary posts littering threads with the sole intention (obvious or not) of bringing the general vibe down for everyone else. If someone wants to post something constructive and critical, power to them, if someone wants to post the equivalent of 'shit' after every page... that bothers me. It obviously bothers Meat too.

Doode. :cool:

duke knooby

22 Apr 2010, 01:43

With all the love in the world, don't call me 'insecure'. It's not about people 'worshipping', it's about multiple unessesary posts littering threads with the sole intention (obvious or not) of bringing the general vibe down for everyone else. If someone wants to post something constructive and critical, power to them, if someone wants to post the equivalent of 'shit' after every page... that bothers me. It obviously bothers Meat too.

Doode. :cool:

what if? someone wants to post something critical based on what they experienced?

Sarge

22 Apr 2010, 01:43

Meat should have the double standard and be treated as a guest of honor here.

Or maybe just develop a thick skin about certain comments? ;) Some people provoke on purpose, some are just clumsy when it comes to their wording... Meat has every right to react to certain offenses, yet I think it depends on what that reaction looks like. I have seen too many posts on this board I wish I hadn't seen and which had a very negative impact on the way I used to perceive certain things and people.

Vickip

22 Apr 2010, 01:47

It did get extreemly ugly and I am not defending that but it's sad that Meat was pushed to that extreem on his own forum !!

I absolutely agree with you ... I think it's sad too :(

TheDoode

22 Apr 2010, 01:48

what if? someone wants to post something critical based on what they experienced?

All I can say to that is 'see my previous post'.

Doode. :cool:

duke knooby

22 Apr 2010, 01:49

so critisism is fine, as long as its positive?

TheDoode

22 Apr 2010, 01:50

Or maybe just develop a thick skin about certain comments?

So... Meat should just ignore 'certain comments' while the perpetrator gets to say whatever he wants?

That's all kinds of wrong.

Man, I thought you were all for anti-censorship?

Doode.

AndrewG

22 Apr 2010, 01:51

I can see it from both sides but I am not a Mod or is Meat for that matter so why it was deleted and who requested it is just speculation here. Has anyone actually asked a mod before thinking about starting this debate? It did get ugly from what I read. Surely this is not the right time to have such negative threads around? And in the end this site is paid for and hosted not by any of us so we should respect that as well. Yeah sure you can have the whole democracy debate but perhaps things get removed as that can also be in Meat's interest and reputation?

Opinion are like assholes, everyone has one including Meat.
Showing him a decent amount of respect for his work, as this is a fan forum is a no-brainer though.

TheDoode

22 Apr 2010, 01:51

so critisism is fine, as long as its positive?

One more time, for the cheap seats, 'see my previous post'.

duke knooby

22 Apr 2010, 01:52

TheDoode

22 Apr 2010, 01:52

Showing him a decent amount of respect for his work, as this is a fan forum is a no-brainer though.

And that's the point in one!

Doode. :cool:

duke knooby

22 Apr 2010, 01:53

One more time, for the cheap seats, 'see my previous post'.

one more time for me in the cheap seats, its ok to critisize, as long as its positive?

A Slice Of English

22 Apr 2010, 01:55

No, duke, what he's said is that its fine to criticise so long as its constructive. But a certain someone was posting INITIALLY a constructive response of "I don't like the album and here's why" and then following up throughout the thread after other positive or negative comments with "I don't agree with that" or "I agree, it's not his best" when he'd made his point the first time. It was dragging the thread down and Meat called him on it, that's all. And rightly so.

TheDoode

22 Apr 2010, 01:58

[QUOTE=TheDoode;491905]So... Meat should just ignore 'certain comments' while the perpetrator gets to say whatever he wants?

/QUOTE]

if whatever the person says is within the rules, whats the problem?

Duke,

I've already given my thoughts - I'm all for open criticism, outright dislikes, upfront do-likes, issues, loves, hates... whatever... but needless, mindless, thoughtless comments designed to provoke and inflame don't do anyone any favours.

Thats' all I've got man ;) I'm done on this one.

Doode. :cool:

Kathy

22 Apr 2010, 02:08

Having an opinion and expressing it doesn't create a problem. Say your piece and then let it go. Inserting negative comments in nearly every thread is heckling, and has no place on a fan forum. Any number of hecklers, even just one, is one too many. Even when it doesn't bother Meat, it bothers fans who come here excited and happy and leave wondering why such behavior is allowed.

Setting aside the issue of whether Meat (or his fans) should have to develop a thick skin to come here, I doubt that any of us are going to be bothered by one post. But repetetive negative posts feel like being poked with a stick over and over. It makes ME mad, and I'm (believe it or not!) one of the most even-tempered people you'll meet :)
-Kathy

Vickip

22 Apr 2010, 02:18

duke knooby

22 Apr 2010, 02:19

fair enough.. no issue with that.. as long as its fair.. (and if needs be balanced)

Sarge

22 Apr 2010, 02:22

So... Meat should just ignore 'certain comments' while the perpetrator gets to say whatever he wants?

Don't get me wrong. I did not mean that people should be allowed to offend Meat (or anyone else). I hope you read the rest of my posting, too.

I once heard Ray Charles sing "sticks and stones may break my bones but talk don't bother me". For many years, I had to communicate with people from all over the world, with different personalities, backgrounds and interests. Over the years, I've developed a very good feeling for people and their motivation to say certain things and to behave in a particular way. I believe many comments aren't really worth to be taken as serious as they appear and that many escalations that have happened on this forum were absolutely unnessary. Often people's tongues (or rather their fingers in this case) and egos are just quicker than their mind. ;)

But repetetive negative posts feel like being poked with a stick over and over.

I think that was the actual problem in that particular case. Someone felt repeatedly criticized and attacked by someone else. The thread that got locked wasn't a discussion, it was a battle.

MeatGrl1

22 Apr 2010, 02:26

The thread that got locked wasn't a discussion, it was a battle.

I agree, I felt that too.

CarylB

22 Apr 2010, 02:33

It's not about people 'worshipping', it's about multiple unessesary posts littering threads with the sole intention (obvious or not) of bringing the general vibe down for everyone else. If someone wants to post something constructive and critical, power to them, if someone wants to post the equivalent of 'shit' after every page... that bothers me. It obviously bothers Meat too.

Doode. :cool:

As I don't know why the thread was removed I wouldn't call for it being put back. I agreed with pretty much everything Meat posted, and also that he had a right to call out what was going on.

I continually find it bizarre that when people call for respect to be shown towards Meat there will be some who define that as worshipping or ass-kissing. Meat IS different, he is the performer this site is about for heavens sake, and just because he is interested and approachable enough to come here and talk to us does not mean imo he should be regarded as "just one of the members". It's to most of us an honour and a joy that he comes here, and he should imo be treated with honour.

Like you, I am equally annoyed when I see posts being made repeatedly with the sole intention of bringing the mood down, or as Emma has said with the apparent motive of getting Meat's attention .. the squeaky wheel syndrome. It bothers Meat too as you say, and it was time it was addressed .. and I do agree with Kathy that the one person who should be able to do this, if it's not prevented, is Meat. He spoke for many of us when he posted yesterday. "Freedom of speech" is such an abused term and used too often imo as a shield for behaviour which is rude or disrespectful.

But I can also see that whilst the thread might have sent a message to those here who indulge in that behaviour, to newcomers it could easily be open to misinterpretation, given we have the rather daft situation where Meat can't use his own name. People often take a while to accept that this IS Meat posting, and when they don't know the background that's led up to what took place yesterday, it could look very strange.

Personally I would have liked a clear statement on the forum when this was removed that the behaviour that provoked it is not acceptable, that Meat is honoured here and deserves respect. That if you don't like some of his work you may of course say this but should do so politely, with respect for his feelings. Meat doesn't expect everyone to like everything, and has no problem with that, but do not attack his motives, his character, his person. That if you don't like anything he does you should consider not coming here because what is the point? This is a forum for those who appreciate him. And that it is not acceptable to dismiss those who do, nor indeed those who who do unconditionally because they love him, in negative terms like "sucking up" or "ass kissing". Fansites will have many who do indeed love and worship the performer, and if you can't understand that then at least don't ridicule it or try and bring their mood down.

No-one, not Meat nor us, should have to develop a "thick skin" to post here. Meat has feelings, as do we. There's no justification for rudeness or comments intended to hurt anyone's feelings, belittle them, or belittle Meat's work.

Caryl

CarylB

22 Apr 2010, 02:35

Originally Posted by Kathy
But repetetive negative posts feel like being poked with a stick over and over.

Posted by Sarge:
I think that was the actual problem in that particular case. Someone felt repeatedly criticized and attacked by someone else.

The biter bit in this case imo. Meat, with great control, treated someone to a dose of the same medicine.

Although I agree you have not suggested in any way that people should be allowed to offend Meat or anyone else.

Caryl

duke knooby

22 Apr 2010, 02:38

No-one, not Meat nor us, should have to develop a "thick skin" to post here. Meat has feelings, as do we. There's no justification for rudeness or comments intended to hurt anyone's feelings, belittle them, or belittle Meat's work.

Caryl

totally agree

MeatGrl1

22 Apr 2010, 02:41

Caryl, thank you.
What a fantastic post :up:.

Sarge

22 Apr 2010, 02:51

No-one, not Meat nor us, should have to develop a "thick skin" to post here.

It helps sometimes. ;) Especially when you know why some people make certain comments. It's not about feelings, it's about tactics. It depends on how you react whether you successfully stand your ground or whether you make yourself vulnerable.

There's no justification for rudeness or comments intended to hurt anyone's feelings, belittle them, or belittle Meat's work.

Indeed.

CarylB

22 Apr 2010, 03:05

It helps sometimes. ;) Especially when you know why some people make certain comments. It's not about feelings, it's about tactics. It depends on how you react whether you successfully stand your ground or whether you make yourself vulnerable.

Oh trust me .. I've learned tactics to manage myself through dealing with some frightful people in my working life ;) But here we should be able to come and just relax and enjoy ourselves .. have fun, but not at others' expense. This shouldn't be about games and tactics imo.

And Meat? .. his very passion for and in what he does means he will be sensitive. If he wasn't I don't believe we would see such passion and tenderness in his singing, such commitment to all he does and to his fans.

I loved his description recently "Some travel on a golden road. I walk along a dirt path with rocks and rabbit holes". He has had to fight so hard for what he believes, continues to do so. If he comes here to interact with his fans, those people to whom he always says he owes everything, with a gentle heart and easily bruised feelings, I think we should be able to accommodate that :-) .. and treat him with some of the gentleness he always shows to those fans meeting him for the first time who are close to being petrified where they stand .. as I watched him do this Monday.

Caryl

Sarge

22 Apr 2010, 03:15

By the way, why do we actually argue about some stupid thing that happened yesterday and that many people - fortunately - did not witness? It's in the past!

I for my part will enjoy the rest of the evening... No, wait... ACK, it's already morning! Nevermind... :lawl:

Relax, folks! There's a new album out (which I will hopefully get before Saturday) and there's gonna be a tour, so there are lot of nice events we can look forward to. Concentrate on the things that really matter! :D

MeatGrl1

22 Apr 2010, 03:19

melon

22 Apr 2010, 03:22

AndrewG

22 Apr 2010, 03:25

Exactly !!!

I think the main reason this is here is because so many of us didn't like what we did see but I totally agree there are so much nice and positive things going on at the moment, new album, upcoming tour and most importantly Meat is visiting on a regular basis at the moment so we should be grateful for that and not dwell on a negative thing that happened yesterday and as it is no longer around we should let the matter drop.

:roll:

We seem to be going round in circles.

If people now conclude that the thread removal was indeed appropriate then this thread should be removed too. ;-)

Perhaps the mods/perhaps Meat himself saw this coming quicker or got to that conclusion before some of us did and acted appropriately.

Sue K

22 Apr 2010, 03:27

By the way, why do we actually argue about some stupid thing that happened yesterday and that many people - fortunately - did not witness? It's in the past!

i don't see arguments... i see discussion ... and imo ... why the discussion? ... because what happened yesterday upset folks and they want to express their concerns about it ...

i've seen this thing happen year in year out... album out... tour on ... same-Oh same-Oh ... the man gets poked with the stick... for attention ? ... who knows... but i'd like to see this discussion thread remain to be a guide for others... treat the man kindly ... and don't mock those who love him ... be constructive with your criticism ... peace out ...

CarylB

22 Apr 2010, 03:46

I would prefer a thread like that removed once its out of his system. But I do agree that he should never have to defend himself like that on ANY fan forum, but good on him for doing that, I just don't think that the threads need to be left laying about for long after...... those posts tend to find their way onto other unnamed boards being taken well out of context.

Yes, a very good point Mel.

As to removing this thread? I agree with tink. There are things here that are very relevant to how so many of us feel about Meat and how he should be treated here.

i've seen this thing happen year in year out... album out... tour on ... same-Oh same-Oh ... the man gets poked with the stick... for attention ? ... who knows... but i'd like to see this discussion thread remain to be a guide for others... treat the man kindly ... and don't mock those who love him ... be constructive with your criticism ... peace out ...

So in accord! .. And should this thread be removed , I'd like to see a clear statement on this site of how fortunate we are to have Meat post here and how he should be treated, something which goes beyond "the rules" because he is not "just a member" and will always be prey to those who like to poke the stick.

Caryl

nikox1

22 Apr 2010, 03:54

Kathy well said, and Caryl as usual you said it like it is:D
there is 3 type of people that visit this forum, type 1 is wise guys = they think they can post whatever they want/and they attack easy prey in numbers!! part of a little click, we cant be touched because we are friends with etc etc,, type 2 is the robin hoods = they will confront the bullies, will stand up for people who cant stand up for themselves, and just want to enjoy the forum? sadly theres not enough robin hoods at the minute, type 3 is the sit on the fence people/sweep everything under the rug people? they see whats going on, but they hope someone else will say what they are thinking!! and im sorry, but that is it in a nutshell!! now 99% of the time R and the mods do a great job, i have no problem with anybody on here, but i will defend myself when needs be? i didnt give the mods 100%, because then id be an ass-licker:D,, and of course everybody can have an opinion, it would be boring any other way! but lets face it, meat did not or does not respond to opinions? lets face it people there has been a nasty trend creeping on here in the past while, its plain for all to see? and i must give meat credit for confronting it, most artists would cry out for the person/people to be removed from a forum, but meat called it like it is!! he answered it! now that said, i dont think meat can just attack who he wants, just because who he is? but deep down everybody knew it was coming, people seen what trend was starting to happen? people know and they clearly see it!! im no angel, most maybe dont like what i post? but i only speak out, or argue when i need to? i have a few buddys on here, i like what alot of people write, hell i have some enemys:lol:, but this trend thats crept in, what trend? yeah!! right, we all see it, should be put to bed!! lets enjoy ourselves on here, and get this forum back to the way it was

suzieq

22 Apr 2010, 04:35

... because what happened yesterday upset folks and they want to express their concerns about it ...

i but i'd like to see this discussion thread remain to be a guide for others... treat the man kindly ... and don't mock those who love him ... be constructive with your criticism ... peace out ...

Yes. Wholeheartedly agree here. This thread should remain as a measuring stick. I'm not afraid to tell a newbie WHY it's here or what happened if they were to ask. I will gladly tell newbies who asked what happened; "Welcome to the forum or I know you are new to the forum and may have missed some information. BUT, some member decided to post on every page something negative about a much anticipated album which half the world didn't have yet and they were pissing on someones HCTB parade. Furthermore, Meat got upset about this abusive jackass and called him out. The problem was swept under the rug and the fans who were tired of being pissed on were upset that they didn't get to see their Knight in shining armor's posts. Meat stands up for himself, so let this be a guide as to what makes him tick."

What's the worse thing that can happen? I make a new friend:D. and confirm a person for what they really are trying to do here.

I'd like to see a clear statement on this site of how fortunate we are to have Meat post here and how he should be treated, something which goes beyond "the rules" because he is not "just a member" and will always be prey to those who like to poke the stick.

Caryl

Ditto for me like I said before, guest of honor.

type 3 is the sit on the fence people/sweep everything under the rug people?

lets enjoy ourselves on here, and get this forum back to the way it was

Problems don't go away if you sweep them under a rug.

The forum is fine as a whole....this thread is the only thing that has taken a stand since Meats thread has been locked....and this thread is worthwhile to have.

nikox1

22 Apr 2010, 04:38

Yes. Wholeheartedly agree here. This thread should remain as a measuring stick. I'm not afraid to tell a newbie WHY it's here or what happened if they were to ask. I will gladly tell newbies who asked what happened; "Welcome to the forum or I know you are new to the forum and may have missed some information. BUT, some member decided to post on every page something negative about a much anticipated album which half the world didn't have yet and they were pissing on someones HCTB parade. Furthermore, Meat got upset about this abusive jackass and called him out. The problem was swept under the rug and the fans who were tired of being pissed on were upset that they didn't get to see their Knight in shining armor's posts. Meat stands up for himself, so let this be a guide as to what makes him tick."

What's the worse thing that can happen? I make a new friend:D. and confirm a person for what they really are trying to do here.

Ditto for me like I said before, guest of honor.

Problems don't go away if you sweep them under a rug.

The forum is fine as a whole....this thread is the only thing that has taken a stand since Meats thread has been locked....and this thread is worthwhile to have.

i agree, i posted it all above!! i said all i have to say on the matter!!

Sarge

22 Apr 2010, 04:57

suzieq

22 Apr 2010, 05:28

Meanwhile I have listened to two Meat Loaf albums while having a glass of French red wine and Belgian chocolate. :-) Maybe I'm just lazy, maybe I believe that being concerned with useless arguments (of past, present and future :roll:) that lead nowhere just consumes too much precious time and energy that should rather be used for something nice, useful, creative or constructive. :p

Pretty lucky to have all that 1 hour and 42 minutes of precious time to yourself (because that was the time difference between your last two useless points and posts on this thread)....I'd say you made good use of your time with a couple of Meatie albums that usually span more than an hour each (wait you must have skipped a few tracks) and consuming your treats ;).

Sorry for my delay of 3 hours between my posts, but you know....I wasn't doing anything nice, useful, creative, or constructive with my life......:lmao:

Vickip

22 Apr 2010, 05:32

And I watched the Phillies win the baseball game :wink:
But that doesn't make this thread any less important in my mind ... it's been
a great discussion. People have been making a lot of valid points that could
be very helpful to new members of the forum.

Sarge

22 Apr 2010, 05:51

wait you must have skipped a few tracks

I admit to have done that. :)) (Oh, I'm bad...)

Megan

22 Apr 2010, 07:05

Quiet Newbie here... I go back to a thread what it means to be a fan and this being a fan site. Of course EVERYONE is entitled to their opinions, that's what makes it interesting to read. This is a Fan site.. I find it amazing that Meat comes on to posts and interact with the fans.... WOW how many artists would do such a thing?! I look forward to his posts, that is part of the reason i joined the site and that friends told me it was a great fan site. I find it sad he needs to come on here and defend himself. He has stated he is all for constructive criticism. Don't attack his integrity that is just wrong.

To the moderators of the site.. why does this person who attacks Meat still have an account or can post ... can this person not just get a read only restrictions? I'm not sure of the forum rules. (this is a question not an attack to you or the site) Can Meat or other members request such actions and you do them based on a certain number of complaints? (obviously not one person complaint)

I would have liked to have seen the back and forth to cheer Meat. I respect and am happy he comes on and does that. I hope he is not so annoyed that he won't be back. Like others have said he is the Guest of Honor for this Fan site and should be treated with respect.

Vickip

22 Apr 2010, 07:20

A Slice Of English

22 Apr 2010, 08:57

Can I just say that technically, Meat owes me a new keyboard because one of his comments in that thread made me spit my Pepsi onto it in shock and laughter...

:D

carole

22 Apr 2010, 09:33

As I don't know why the thread was removed I wouldn't call for it being put back. I agreed with pretty much everything Meat posted, and also that he had a right to call out what was going on.

I continually find it bizarre that when people call for respect to be shown towards Meat there will be some who define that as worshipping or ass-kissing. Meat IS different, he is the performer this site is about for heavens sake, and just because he is interested and approachable enough to come here and talk to us does not mean imo he should be regarded as "just one of the members". It's to most of us an honour and a joy that he comes here, and he should imo be treated with honour.

Like you, I am equally annoyed when I see posts being made repeatedly with the sole intention of bringing the mood down, or as Emma has said with the apparent motive of getting Meat's attention .. the squeaky wheel syndrome. It bothers Meat too as you say, and it was time it was addressed .. and I do agree with Kathy that the one person who should be able to do this, if it's not prevented, is Meat. He spoke for many of us when he posted yesterday. "Freedom of speech" is such an abused term and used too often imo as a shield for behaviour which is rude or disrespectful.

But I can also see that whilst the thread might have sent a message to those here who indulge in that behaviour, to newcomers it could easily be open to misinterpretation, given we have the rather daft situation where Meat can't use his own name. People often take a while to accept that this IS Meat posting, and when they don't know the background that's led up to what took place yesterday, it could look very strange.

Personally I would have liked a clear statement on the forum when this was removed that the behaviour that provoked it is not acceptable, that Meat is honoured here and deserves respect. That if you don't like some of his work you may of course say this but should do so politely, with respect for his feelings. Meat doesn't expect everyone to like everything, and has no problem with that, but do not attack his motives, his character, his person. That if you don't like anything he does you should consider not coming here because what is the point? This is a forum for those who appreciate him. And that it is not acceptable to dismiss those who do, nor indeed those who who do unconditionally because they love him, in negative terms like "sucking up" or "ass kissing". Fansites will have many who do indeed love and worship the performer, and if you can't understand that then at least don't ridicule it or try and bring their mood down.

No-one, not Meat nor us, should have to develop a "thick skin" to post here. Meat has feelings, as do we. There's no justification for rudeness or comments intended to hurt anyone's feelings, belittle them, or belittle Meat's work.

Caryl

Very well put Caryl. Meat isn't just another member here, it is his site and I consider it an honour that he posts on here, and it saddens me when he is reduced to having to defend himself, especially when the person in question is supposed to be a fan of his. I was on line while it all unfolded and saw everything that was written and Meat was well within his rights to be upset and say what he did. It's a sad state of affairs when you come onto your own fan site and are attacked. I agree with what a few others have said here, not everyone has to like everything he does, he does not expect it either. But if you don't like something, say it politely and respectfully. Meat has feelings too. He welcomes constructive criticism and takes it on board.

Carole

daveake

22 Apr 2010, 09:49

I have a question. Is this about the thread Evil One started or is this something I've missed?

carole

22 Apr 2010, 10:03

Yeah it's about the one Evil One started the other day.

Carole

daveake

22 Apr 2010, 10:21

TVM

Monstro

22 Apr 2010, 10:24

It's early and I'll probably word this wrong but here goes.....

It took me ages to actually grasp the reality of this site and to this day there are posts that piss me off or I think were written by a complete idiot but it's how I react that's changed. The truth is this isn't Meat's site, it isn't .net, it's an independant fan club run by the fans for the fans, not for the artist.

I agree that it's brilliant Meat chooses to post here (if he didn't I wouldn't have gone to the London listening party) but I also like the fact that not every post has to be I love it, it's brilliant etc etc. Opposing viewpoints are welcomed here, not all fans are going to love everything Meat does, personally I hated Popstar to Operastar and laughed out loud at the BOOH arrangement. Saying that though I think Meat was right, continuosly poking at something is wrong but the thread the way it went was wrong, whilst some think that Meat should be allowed to posts whatever he wants is right, I don't. Personally I don't want to see someone I've admired and followed for donkey's years reduce himself to the level of those just trying to wind him up, Meat called him out and said what many thought and that's where he should've left it, as stated earlier in this thread it turned into a battle not a discussion so it was right it was removed and I'd like to think in the cold light of day Meat would agree with that.

daveake

22 Apr 2010, 10:34

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b159/bat-trick/withstupid.gif ;-)

(Well, it's better than "CHSIB"!)

allrevvedup

22 Apr 2010, 11:17

TheDoode

22 Apr 2010, 11:21

Stop me if you've heard this one:

A Steven Spielberg fan opens a bar and it's the coolest place in town. He even calls it "Speilberg's" (he's not that creative). Everyone who likes Spielberg goes there to hang out and talk the talk. And then one day the man himself shows up, takes in a Bud, and hangs out for a while with a bunch of likeminded people.

A regular occurence, it's like everything's going great, and Spielberg amuses with stories and news of his life and career, and the people, being Spielberg fans, are all sitting there with dumb grins on their faces thinking 'this is great! we get a chance to talk to Spielberg'. And that's when one loud, obnoxious drunk raises his voice in the background...

At first Steven doesn't react. He's professional, he's cool, he lets it slide. But the drunk gets louder, obnoxious even, and suddenly he's attracted the attention of other like-minded drunks. Now Steven, mid-way through a timeless anecdote with a bunch of fans hanging on his every word, is visibly shaken by what's going on.

An hour passes, it escalates further, and Steven finds that he's being scrutinised about things he knows damn well he never even did! And he's getting mad! And he feels attacked, and of course he does - because we'd all react pretty much like that in the same circumstance, right? Right.

I'm just saying...

Doode. :cool:

daveake

22 Apr 2010, 11:29

I see no loud, obnoxious drunks.

I do see someone who wants to censor people's opinions.

TheDoode

22 Apr 2010, 11:43

Cool, point him out to me next time he's in ;-) Because right now I'll tell you that I don't like Wolf at your Door because it's way too poppy and doesn't really sound like Meat, I do like Elvis in Vegas because it's a kick-ass tune, and I'm still not entirely sure about FCOL as the best track of all time (though it WOULD be right up there).

Daveake, you back up 90% of Evil One's posts here, so I'm not even going to carry this on. You know my thoughts, and I can see yours coming a mile off. As long as people go around offending each other and angering the artiste (which is what this is all about, so go on, tell me that DIDN'T happen) then this will be my stance until it stops. Cencorship is the banner the cowards hide behind when they've been called out.

CarylB

22 Apr 2010, 11:49

It's early and I'll probably word this wrong but here goes.....

Not at all .. good post :-)

I think pretty much everyone has agreed here that not all fans will like everything, that not all posts need to be about loving every piece of Meat's work, and that Meat and they have no problem with with that provided it's done with respect. But as you say, the continuous poking and prodding that provoked what happened is wrong. And the back and forth one-liners on the HCTB Experience thread that morning which were later removed, proved to be a final and tasteless straw. Perhaps intended to wind up the many who have embraced the album with delight, they were an insult not only to them but to Meat.

I think most of us arguing that Meat should be treated differently here, are simply saying that he should always be accorded respect, and given the latitude to call people out when they repeatedly try and bait him or pour cold water on the enthusiasm most of his fans have for his work, and in so doing say what so many are thinking. I too hate to see people winding him up in efforts to antagonise him and reduce him to their level. I'm certainly not arguing that the thread should be reinstated for the reasons I've already said, and yes, it became finally a battle ... imo simply because when the biter was bit he refused to accept he'd been called out and drop it. I have no idea whether Meat would or would not want the thread reinstated; for all I know he could have asked for its removal, could have agreed to it. He made his stand and I'm sure moved quickly on to deal with far more important things.

But he did say what many here were thinking. Most of us are full of excitement and enthusiasm for his new album. Let those who aren't say so and leave it at that. Let those who are, do what you might reasonably expect fans to do on a fansite .. celebrate and share Meat's obvious pride in what he's produced .. and do it without continued harrying by those who don't.

Caryl

daveake

22 Apr 2010, 11:52

stuff

I've lost count of the number of posts where you've told people what they can't say. Can you see why that might annoy people?

daveake

22 Apr 2010, 11:55

Let those who aren't say so and leave it at that. Let those who are, do what you might reasonably expect fans to do on a fansite .. celebrate and share Meat's obvious pride in what he's produced .. and do it without continued harrying by those who don't.

I do hope that you're not saying that those who don't like the album are allowed to say so once and then have to shut up, whilst those that do like are given free reign to say so as often as they like.

Bubbles

22 Apr 2010, 12:00

It took me ages to actually grasp the reality of this site and to this day there are posts that piss me off or I think were written by a complete idiot but it's how I react that's changed. The truth is this isn't Meat's site, it isn't .net, it's an independant fan club run by the fans for the fans, not for the artist.

I agree that it's brilliant Meat chooses to post here (if he didn't I wouldn't have gone to the London listening party) but I also like the fact that not every post has to be I love it, it's brilliant etc etc. Opposing viewpoints are welcomed here, not all fans are going to love everything Meat does, personally I hated Popstar to Operastar and laughed out loud at the BOOH arrangement. Saying that though I think Meat was right, continuosly poking at something is wrong but the thread the way it went was wrong, whilst some think that Meat should be allowed to posts whatever he wants is right, I don't. Personally I don't want to see someone I've admired and followed for donkey's years reduce himself to the level of those just trying to wind him up.

yup.

TheDoode

22 Apr 2010, 12:19

I've lost count of the number of posts where you've told people what they can't say. Can you see why that might annoy people?

Daveake,

Save it. I've seen the the disrespectful shit that you and Evil One post on your 'Bat Musical' forum. It's not about me, so don't even go there. If you have the right to trash things, then I have the right to defend them.

Doode. :cool:

CarylB

22 Apr 2010, 12:21

I do hope that you're not saying that those who don't like the album are allowed to say so once and then have to shut up, whilst those that do like are given free reign to say so as often as they like.

I meant precisely what I said. And I credit you with more than enough intellect to know exactly what I (and others who have said essentially the same) mean.

Most of us are full of excitement and enthusiasm for his new album. Let those who aren't say so and leave it at that. Let those who are, do what you might reasonably expect fans to do on a fansite .. celebrate and share Meat's obvious pride in what he's produced .. and do it without continued harrying by those who don't.

You've made it perfecty clear you don't like the album. Fine. Your point is made. But on a fansite the many fans who love it will want to continue to enthuse about it without being harried by the kind of repeated mocking comments which were removed from the HCTB Experience thread yesterday.

Caryl

AndyK

22 Apr 2010, 12:32

There are a number of issues raised in this thread which need to be considered. Some are pretty obvious, some require a little more consideration.

All of the issues raised will be responded to, but rather than giving a "knee jerk" reponse please give us the opportunity to discuss this between ourselves, some of the team haven't been online since this raised it's head and it's only fair that they be given the opportunity to understand all the issues raised. As you all know the team that operate this site are all volunteers, with jmany other commitments and we can't be here 24/7.

In the meantime, please remember that every user has the ability to report any post that they feel is worth reporting, and try to remain respectful with what is posted, whatever your opinion.

daveake

22 Apr 2010, 12:32

Thanks for the confirmation, Caryl.

daveake

22 Apr 2010, 12:35

Daveake,

If you have the right to trash things, then I have the right to defend them.

Doode. :cool:

I have the right to state my opinion. You have no right, seeing as you're not a mod, to tell people what they can't post. As Andy says there's a "report" button if you don't like anything I or anyone else says.

TheDoode

22 Apr 2010, 12:50

I have the right to state my opinion. You have no right, seeing as you're not a mod, to tell people what they can't post. As Andy says there's a "report" button if you don't like anything I or anyone else says.

So far I haven't actually 'told' a single person that they CAN'T post their 'opinion'. What I have done is take a stand at what has offended ME. That's MY opinion. Stop twisting my intentions.

You want to know what I found during my first week of being a member here?

"Some of you really hate me here!"

We both know where that quote came from. And he should NEVER *NEVER* be made to feel like that. So if you've seen me be a little gung-ho about keeping the atmosphere 'positive' (I love how you try and turn that into a bad thing by the way, serioulsy, made ME grin) it's for that exact reason. There's a new album out. The promotion is intense. Doing anything creative demands a good atmosphere, especially if you're sensitive to what people are saying about you. Maybe you find that hard to understand if you've never been there yourself.

Don't try and attack me, Daveake, because I'll call you for it time and time again. I've got nothing to hide, and I'm not doing anything 'wrong' here.

Doode.

daveake

22 Apr 2010, 13:41

So far I haven't actually 'told' a single person that they CAN'T post their 'opinion'. What I have done is take a stand at what has offended ME.

Well, that's fine then. I look forward to you not telling telling people that they shouldn't post their honest objective thoughts when they do so in future.

TheDoode

22 Apr 2010, 13:43

And I look forward to you not trolling. Way forward. ;-)

Sue K

22 Apr 2010, 13:47

... that if soon we all don't agree to disagree and shake on it ... :cheer: ... this thread will be locked... right ? ... it's already been tucked away in Feedback Central ... :bleh:... lol ... SEIZE THE DAY AND PEACE IT OUT !!!! ... :yay: ...

wolfy35

22 Apr 2010, 15:05

I didn't see any of the posts that happened yesterday for medical reasons so I would be foolish to comment on them

However

Several times recently I have been upset by posts from one or two people that to me seemed to be an attack on Meat and I feel this can not be allowed to continue any longer. We are all allowed our opions but what can not be allowed are the form of personal attacks and insults that have happened recently.

The way I see it is that this is a place where Meat fans can come together and talk about many topics, Meat being the most inportant of these. More importantly this site has proved for a long time to be a place where Meat can be among friends.
Remember its not so long ago that Meat returned to us here after spending a good long time away because some insults posted on this site upset and angered him to the point he abandoned us for too long.

Meat meens too much to me for me to continue to be here if personal attacks on him are allowed to continue.

jools35

22 Apr 2010, 15:23

Hello everyone,

I have read with great interest this thread.
I did not see all of the thread that was deleted.

In my humble Opinion, you can love the album(like i do) or dislike it.
As the saying goes 'Opinions are like a----eholes, everyone has one'

I have no problem with anyone voicing their opinions(and im sure no one else has either)
What i do have a problem with is the personel attacts that seem to be happening.

If you dont like the album thats ok, put your crititisms politely and be constructive with them.

But dont not slag anyone off.

Its a privilage i believe to have Meat Loaf posting on this site.

Do we want him not to post any more ??

Sarge

22 Apr 2010, 15:50

Personally I don't want to see someone I've admired and followed for donkey's years reduce himself to the level of those just trying to wind him up

Thank you for that sentence, Monstro.

LucyK!

22 Apr 2010, 15:55

This won't go down well but here goes anyway...

Personally I think it only right that the thread started by Evil One was locked and that the follow-up thread started by Meat was also moved. If that thread had been an argument between Evil One and me, then one or both of us would have been infracted or had posts reported for inappropriate behaviour towards another member. I would also have been infracted if I'd been the cause of a thread needing to be locked and then had chosen to start another one to continue the argument.

As far as I'm concerned it should be one rule for all regardless of who the poster is, otherwise what's the point in the rules?

MeatGrl1

22 Apr 2010, 16:15

Dave

22 Apr 2010, 17:10

Several times recently I have been upset by posts from one or two people that to me seemed to be an attack on Meat and I feel this can not be allowed to continue any longer. We are all allowed our opions but what can not be allowed are the form of personal attacks and insults that have happened recently.

....

Meat meens too much to me for me to continue to be here if personal attacks on him are allowed to continue.

Please, if you have a problem with someone's posts, it is as simple as clicking on the "report" button. As a board mod, I can say that honest conversation goes into making decisions about each and every reported post. If anyone has a problem with anything posted, save yourself heartache and stress worrying over it and leave it in the hands of the moderators by clicking the report button. We love Meat Loaf just as much as all of you and will do our very best to take quick action when we can.

Big love...

Dave

wolfy35

22 Apr 2010, 18:00

Please, if you have a problem with someone's posts, it is as simple as clicking on the "report" button.
Dave

I dont have a "report" button anymore on here I lost it when I switched to a 64 bit O/S and added the facebook bridge

AndyK

22 Apr 2010, 18:04

I dont have a "report" button anymore on here I lost it when I switched to a 64 bit O/S and added the facebook bridge

You sure about that? It should be there for every post, under the posters avatar. Not that I'm completely doubting you it just seems odd that it would disappear from the styles because of the underlying OS of your machine or the FB bridge.

If it has truly gone, then until The Plumber can get round to fixing it, presumably you still have the PM facility and you know who the mods are?

CarylB

22 Apr 2010, 18:25

This won't go down well but here goes anyway...

Not at all. I can understand where you're coming from, its basis in principle, but I do see it a bit differently. Imo Meat IS different to other members, he's the performer the site's about. Leaving aside the webmaster, without whom there wouldn't be a site ;), Meat is imo arguably the member most people would miss were he not to visit and post. I too don't like to see him having to come down to the level of those who choose to prod and poke him, as others have said. But because of who he is, he is also more prey to those with various motives trying to wind him up than is the average member here. He shouldn't need to have defend himself or call people out imo, simply because he shouldn't be subjected to personal attacks, nor to rude or vitriolic attacks on his work. He does deserve respect, hell he's earned it over the years both through his work and through the way he has treated his fans .. but is often the person least likely to receive it from a few, simply because being Meat he's the target.

To me it's about prevention. A clear message to people who want to come here and post, and one that goes beyond the general rules, is more specific, and clearly set out, rather than being repeatedly discussed in threads like this or the one started a while ago about being a fan. One that goes beyond the general rules in clarity precisely because of who he is, and because he can be an obvious and easy target, being the performer rather than one of the fans.

Those who don't like him, don't like his work .. I can see no laudable reason for their coming here if it's primarily to dampen the enthusiasm of his fans or to prod him into a reaction. Those who take issue with/don't like some of his work, fair enough .. say so and why, but without being rude or abrasive. But it seems to me a fansite is a place where those who DO like what he's doing should be able to get excited, discuss, and celebrate this enthusiastically as much as they want. Those who don't could, having made their views known, distance themselves from the general enthusiasm if they find it tiresome, but not continually pour cold water on the the excitement, nor remind us repeatedly that they don't like it. We know that very well.

Caryl

TheDoode

22 Apr 2010, 18:39

A big amen to that.

Doode.

meat_loaf2008

22 Apr 2010, 18:47

cant we all just sing kumbya and get along? Jesus people..

MeatGrl1

22 Apr 2010, 18:51

Right...

Dave

22 Apr 2010, 18:54

Not at all. I can understand where you're coming from, its basis in principle, but I do see it a bit differently. Imo Meat IS different to other members, he's the performer the site's about. Leaving aside the webmaster, without whom there wouldn't be a site ;), Meat is imo arguably the member most people would miss were he not to visit and post.

I can speak to this from a few levels, as I am a member of some forums, moderator on others, webmaster on a couple, and yes...even the subject of a couple different forums. On the forums where I am a member, I play by the rules of the game as set forth by the moderator - if I don't like how they play the game, I revoke membership and move on to greener pastures. I am a moderator/admin for forums, so I know how great this task can be and I respect the hard work the mod team puts forth, often without compensation, to ensure everything runs smooth. As for the forums where I am the subject, even though I am an artist and help create the buzz that is being discussed, I am subject to playing by the rules of the forum - same as the "fans" of what is being discussed. I think it only fair.

To me it's about prevention. A clear message to people who want to come here and post, and one that goes beyond the general rules, is more specific, and clearly set out, rather than being repeatedly discussed in threads like this or the one started a while ago about being a fan. One that goes beyond the general rules in clarity precisely because of who he is, and because he can be an obvious and easy target being the performer rather than one of the fans.

Rules are rules - there should never be a double standard for anyone at anytime. That is how I see it. We are all on this planet together and all deserving of being treated as equal - no one is lesser or greater than anyone else. That is how I see it.

Those who don't like him, don't like his work .. I can see no laudable reason for their coming here if it's primarily to dampen the enthusiasm of his fans or to prod him into a reaction. Those who take issue with/don't like some of his work, fair enough say so and why, but without being rude or abrasive. But it seems to me a fansite should be a place where those who DO like what he's doing to be able to get excited, discuss, and celebrate enthusiastically what he's doing as much as they want. Those who don't could, having made their views known, distance themselves from the general enthusiasm if they find it tiresome, but not continually pour cold water on the the excitement, nor remind us repeatedly that they don't like it. We know that very well.

Again, let me state that the absolute best method to deal with anything you think might be offensive on this message board is to simply click the "report" button. I know that all reported messages are reviewed by the moderation team on this site. If the action taken by the mods are not to your liking, then so be it. Again, I can speak from all angles here, having been on all ends of a forum, and can say the world is not perfect and you cannot always get what you want, but if you try sometimes (by clicking on the report button), you just might find, you get what you need. Not all mod decisions are going to please everyone, they simply cannot. But by participating on this site, you have to agree to the moderation standards set forth by the mod team here.

Big love...

Dave

CarylB

22 Apr 2010, 18:58

cant we all just sing kumbya and get along? Jesus people..

Like we always do .. until the next time when Meat is prodded with a stick, reacts and it starts all over again?

Sorry, I may find I have to see the usual conclusion, the prodding sticks get put on the shelf, and then when Meat starts touring see the same familiar pattern repeat. But I'm not singing kumbya.

Caryl

nikox1

22 Apr 2010, 18:59

Not at all. I can understand where you're coming from, its basis in principle, but I do see it a bit differently. Imo Meat IS different to other members, he's the performer the site's about. Leaving aside the webmaster, without whom there wouldn't be a site ;), Meat is imo arguably the member most people would miss were he not to visit and post. I too don't like to see him having to come down to the level of those who choose to prod and poke him, as others have said. But because of who he is, he is also more prey to those with various motives trying to wind him up than is the average member here. He shouldn't need to have defend himself or call people out imo, simply because he shouldn't be subjected to personal attacks, nor to rude or vitriolic attacks on his work. He does deserve respect, hell he's earned it over the years both through his work and through the way he has treated his fans .. but is often the person least likely to receive it from a few, simply because being Meat he's the target.

To me it's about prevention. A clear message to people who want to come here and post, and one that goes beyond the general rules, is more specific, and clearly set out, rather than being repeatedly discussed in threads like this or the one started a while ago about being a fan. One that goes beyond the general rules in clarity precisely because of who he is, and because he can be an obvious and easy target, being the performer rather than one of the fans.

Those who don't like him, don't like his work .. I can see no laudable reason for their coming here if it's primarily to dampen the enthusiasm of his fans or to prod him into a reaction. Those who take issue with/don't like some of his work, fair enough .. say so and why, but without being rude or abrasive. But it seems to me a fansite is a place where those who DO like what he's doing should be able to get excited, discuss, and celebrate this enthusiastically as much as they want. Those who don't could, having made their views known, distance themselves from the general enthusiasm if they find it tiresome, but not continually pour cold water on the the excitement, nor remind us repeatedly that they don't like it. We know that very well.

Caryl

everything you said is true, very true!! prevention is better than cure? and it continues because its not prevented? i do also agree that these countless threads need to stop! and there is no need for a witch hunt, but for the trouble makers to be dealt with, if people continue to bend the rules they need to be sorted, that includes myself or anybody thats causing problems?
people can have arguments, and some banter, thats all ok!! but the bottom line is everybody knows whats going on? and to be fair to the mods, im sure they dont want to get so tough on people, that people wont want to post anymore? so it needs to be dealt with carefully i guess? now in some peoples eyes when meat jumped in that was wrong? but to me, it gave some people the kick they needed, i suppose it gave some people a voice to speak up?

Dave

22 Apr 2010, 19:06

people can have arguments, and some banter, thats all ok!! but the bottom line is everybody knows whats going on? and to be fair to the mods, im sure they dont want to get so tough on people, that people wont want to post anymore? so it needs to be dealt with carefully i guess? now in some peoples eyes when meat jumped in that was wrong? but to me, it gave some people the kick they needed, i suppose it gave some people a voice to speak up?

That is one of the rare and unique aspects of this board is that everyone does have a voice. Everyone can access the "report" feature on any forum post made here and know the mod team will look into what is going on. Just because the mod team does not choose to handle a given situation the way you would best see fit, does not mean the situation has not been handled. Rather than expending any further energies kicking a dead horse and posting the same thing in the same thread over and over again, why not move outside of this topic and get back to discussing the music, movies, and projects of Meat Loaf? If you happen across something that does not sit well with you, click the report button and know it is being dealt with to the best of the mod team's abilities.

CarylB

22 Apr 2010, 19:06

I can speak to this from a few levels, as I am a member of some forums, moderator on others, webmaster on a couple, and yes...even the subject of a couple different forums. Dave

I've explained where I stand and why, so won't argue, save to say with all the best will in the world the status quo has been shown time and again not to be sufficient to prevent what lies at the root of this thread, despite the fact that I'd agree reporting has effected improvements and I'd applaud that. But still it can happen as it has again most recently. Andy says consideration is being given to the issues raised here again. So I'll await the outcome of those and hope for some solutions which will resolve things once and for all.

Caryl

TheDoode

22 Apr 2010, 19:06

I can speak to this from a few levels, as I am a member of some forums, moderator on others, webmaster on a couple, and yes...even the subject of a couple different forums. On the forums where I am a member, I play by the rules of the game as set forth by the moderator - if I don't like how they play the game, I revoke membership and move on to greener pastures. I am a moderator/admin for forums, so I know how great this task can be and I respect the hard work the mod team puts forth, often without compensation, to ensure everything runs smooth. As for the forums where I am the subject, even though I am an artist and help create the buzz that is being discussed, I am subject to playing by the rules of the forum - same as the "fans" of what is being discussed. I think it only fair.

Rules are rules - there should never be a double standard for anyone at anytime. That is how I see it. We are all on this planet together and all deserving of being treated as equal - no one is lesser or greater than anyone else. That is how I see it.

Again, let me state that the absolute best method to deal with anything you think might be offensive on this message board is to simply click the "report" button. I know that all reported messages are reviewed by the moderation team on this site. If the action taken by the mods are not to your liking, then so be it. Again, I can speak from all angles here, having been on all ends of a forum, and can say the world is not perfect and you cannot always get what you want, but if you try sometimes (by clicking on the report button), you just might find, you get what you need. Not all mod decisions are going to please everyone, they simply cannot. But by participating on this site, you have to agree to the moderation standards set forth by the mod team here.

Big love...

Dave

Dave,

Tell me I'm wrong: various users are allowed to constantly post derrogatory remarks (fleshed out with abuse on the other forums they post on under the same names) and Meat isn't allowed to defend himself (at his own fan community)?

That's insane. And it troubles me. Some of the behaviour on here has been borderline sociopathic. And we're saying that it's okay, and that they can get away with it, but Meat shouldn't retaliate because he's direct, and honest, and right on the point?

Again man, it troubles me :?

You did read that post, right, where Meat said "Some of you really hate me here!". Doesn't that kind of point out that there's something very wrong going on..? Like, the very artiste this site is set up to celebrate, is saying that he feels unwelcome, and threatened?

I'm not trying to incite a riot Dave, and I'm not telling you how to run your own board, but I just can't let this one go.

Doode.

I don't want peace on Earth... I'd settle for peace of mind :?

EDIT:

The report function for me skirts around the issue... usually the cause is the effects of multiple posts built up over a short period of time, some times even in different threads. And it's usually not the content per se, but the tone and implications of said posts. They do it, they know they do it, they know HOW to do it and get away with it. That's why we're here talking about it now.

Kathy

22 Apr 2010, 19:16

I'd love to have peace of mind too. In a small way this thread has given me some peace, and I'd like to give warm thanks to Carole, Doode, Suzieq and everyone else who understands where I'm coming from and came here to say so.

I would like to point out that the Report Button works very well for a single inflammatory post, but doesn't handle the situation where there is an intent to heckle with repetetive negative posts, no one of which is an outright flame.

-Kathy

suzieq

22 Apr 2010, 19:19

Stop me if you've heard this one:
A Steven Spielberg fan opens a bar and it's the coolest place in town. He even calls it "Speilberg's" (he's not that creative).
I'm just saying...
Doode.

Love the analogy, now I'm going to open a bar called Loaf's and hire the biggest boldest bouncer I know to kick out the obnoxious. ;)

I see no loud, obnoxious drunks.

Slick innocence here.

I do see someone who wants to censor people's opinions.

As in, the removing of the whole thread censoring....yeah, coincidentally I see that too! Ironically, kind of like ripping a page out of a book.

I do hope that you're not saying that those who don't like the album are allowed to say so once

Once by one person is enough actually! The problem is the ratio of disappointed is about 1 to every 6 likers (that has posted). So, in order of balance that 1 has to post multiple times to make sure his/her disappointment is heard.

I have the right to state my opinion.

So go ahead....state it loud and proud!

You want to know what I found during my first week of being a member here?

"Some of you really hate me here!"

Don't try and attack me, Daveake, because I'll call you for it time and time again. I've got nothing to hide, and I'm not doing anything 'wrong' here.

Doode.

Sad isn't it, Doode? Meat should never feel that way on a fan site. I wonder what a new person who happened to approach this forum would think? I wonder how I could help this person through those waters? I wonder if the forums reputation would be in jeopardy if a new fan saw how Meat felt about his treatment from members here?

whilst some think that Meat should be allowed to posts whatever he wants is right, I don't. Personally I don't want to see someone I've admired and followed for donkey's years reduce himself to the level of those just trying to wind him up,

Personally I think it only right that the thread started by Evil One was locked and that the follow-up thread started by Meat was also moved.

As far as I'm concerned it should be one rule for all regardless of who the poster is, otherwise what's the point in the rules?

Monstro and Lucy, I get what your saying. I wish Meat didn't have to defend himself BUT, he's the only one that can. It's his to defend. Everyone else would be fighting "for" him. If it was a case of Evil One vs. _____(fill in anyone here) yes, we would be duct taped and told to go to PM about it. But this isn't Suzieq's UK forum, Monstro's UK Forum, or Lucy's UK Forum....it's MEAT'S. And yes it is run voluntarily by fans, but he is still the guest of honor. Do you know how many Facebook groups would love him to just visit with them? But he chooses to be here. IMO: I think exceptions should preside for him here.

As far as I know, Meat puts his pants on one leg at a time like the rest of us, he's a normal guy, he has normal feelings, and yet some flaw him for "getting down" on a level in which some are not comfortable with.

Do you enjoy getting information from Meat? Do you look forward to when he posts? Do you feel like you have importance to him when he shares the information? I've heard the term "reduce down" more times than I can count.
If it is said that he is being reduced down...then that means Meat is viewed as someone with who should have higher standards. If he has higher standards than he should be an exception for the rules to this board. Look, in our real world don't we hold Meat on a pedestal? I do. I think he has a bit more power in "say" than we all do.

Hate to be the one to possibly disappoint you, but I think people just need to get over the fact that their idol will defend himself and if people don't like it....the log off bar is on the top right of the homepage of this very site. We can not control anyone but ourselves.

This topic is very important to me otherwise, I wouldn't speak up at all. IF Meat was the one that asked the thread to be removed, then as I stated prior, I respect that. Meanwhile, Meat got what he needed to out of his system, he has always come back in a better frame of mind. I'm going to bank on the fact that he will be back here, sharing with us again....but I can also bank on the fact that he will be keeping an eye on "matters" and I feel great about that.

Suzieq

There are a number of issues raised in this thread which need to be considered. Some are pretty obvious, some require a little more consideration.

I thank you in advance for all considerations.

Suzieq

Kathy

22 Apr 2010, 19:20

woops, Doode, I missed your "Edit" :-)

Sarge

22 Apr 2010, 19:21

I agree with everything Dave has said.

The moderators of this forum have done a very good job so far. It's none of their business what members of this forum say or don't say on other forums. What matters is whether they violate the rules of this forum. As far as I know, several members have already gotten warnings or have been banned when that was the case, so there's no reason to complain about how this forum is being moderated. It's interesting that it's usually the same bunch of people who are trying to tell the mods what to do (and I suspect many of them rather like to add fuel to fire than simply click the report button).

TheDoode

22 Apr 2010, 19:27

woops, Doode, I missed your "Edit" :-)

No worries! :)

Doode.

suzieq

22 Apr 2010, 19:27

cant we all just sing kumbya and get along? Jesus people..

With all do respect, we have kumbya on all other threads of the forum...this forum is great for discussion as a whole...but in order for us NOT to have this sort of topic on those threads, I think this could be a great graveyard for the main issue which has come up on many a thread. Because it's not a matter of IF, it's a matter of WHEN.

If we want to kill this dead horse 4 x over, at the very least the mods will have a place to merge threads instead of sweeping it under a rug, which happens time and time again.

Meanwhile, if you prefer to not read this type of discussion, I can only say don't click on the thread "Meat's Posts" for now ;) Hopefully, the measuring stick of behavior will remain.

Suzieq

Dave

22 Apr 2010, 19:27

Tell me I'm wrong: various users are allowed to constantly post derrogatory remarks (fleshed out with abuse on the other forums they post on under the same names) and Meat isn't allowed to defend himself (at his own fan community)?

Everyone is allowed to defend themselves in this world. However, constantly going back and forth and back and forth over the same few gets tiresome for the whole and in this case caused Meat Loaf to make an acute reaction. There was a moderation made to remove a thread and I can only assume that R. has not heard anything about the thread removal from Meat Loaf himself as no action has been taken to reinstate the thread, and having ran a Meat Loaf fan site of my own, when something goes down that Meat Loaf does not approve of, he does not hesitate to let you know about it.

I'm not trying to incite a riot Dave, and I'm telling you how to run your own board, but I just can't let this one go.

This is not "my" board by any means. At one point I had a very busy Meat Loaf forum of my own, but that is in the past. I am not speaking on behalf of the entire mod team, but am speaking on my own behalf that Meat Loaf's best interest is paramount, as was how my mod duties were explained to me. I have nothing but Meat Loaf's best interest at heart here and until time is given to examine the full scope of the issue, there is not more I can say than saying the proper way to handle any offensive material you find on this forum is to click the report button and not kick up the dust on an age old (as far as Meat Loaf on the Internet goes) internet bickering match.

nikox1

22 Apr 2010, 19:30

TheDoode

22 Apr 2010, 19:30

Everyone is allowed to defend themselves in this world. However, constantly going back and forth and back and forth over the same few gets tiresome for the whole and in this case caused Meat Loaf to make an acute reaction. There was a moderation made to remove a thread and I can only assume that R. has not heard anything about the thread removal from Meat Loaf himself as no action has been taken to reinstate the thread, and having ran a Meat Loaf fan site of my own, when something goes down that Meat Loaf does not approve of, he does not hesitate to let you know about it.

This is not "my" board by any means. At one point I had a very busy Meat Loaf forum of my own, but that is in the past. I am not speaking on behalf of the entire mod team, but am speaking on my own behalf that Meat Loaf's best interest is paramount, as was how my mod duties were explained to me. I have nothing but Meat Loaf's best interest at heart here and until time is given to examine the full scope of the issue, there is not more I can say than saying the proper way to handle any offensive material you find on this forum is to click the report button and not kick up the dust on an age old (as far as Meat Loaf on the Internet goes) internet bickering match.

Dave... I missed out a very important 'not' in that quote... did you spot it? :oops:

Doode.

Dave

22 Apr 2010, 19:32

Andy says consideration is being given to the issues raised here again. So I'll await the outcome of those and hope for some solutions which will resolve things once and for all.

Thank you for your patience and understanding in this matter Caryl. Please, Caryl and everyone else, know we are working on the root cause of the issue and I think everyone would be much more satisfied with a thorough scrub and well evaluated cure to the issue rather than just another knee jerk, quick fix reaction.

Sarge

22 Apr 2010, 19:35

and its the same bunch of people who cause the crap in the first place? the difference here is that people have had enough!!

You've proven my point, thank you. :p

Dave

22 Apr 2010, 19:37

Dave... I missed out a very important 'not' in that quote... did you spot it? :oops:

Can you please point it out to me?

Thanks,

Dave

nikox1

22 Apr 2010, 19:38

how about we leave it for now guys? everybody go cool off!! im 100% behind you Caryl/Doode/Su/,, but lets have a kitkat, and a nice cup of tea:D

TheDoode

22 Apr 2010, 19:40

Can you please point it out to me?

Thanks,

Dave

I corrected it, but you quoted me before I clicked on 'save'. It should have read "I'm NOT trying to tell you how to run your own forum".

So, sorry if that came across in the wrong light. I'm happy that you guys are seriously looking into everything we've discussed here.

Doode.

Sarge

22 Apr 2010, 19:40

but lets have a kitkat, and a nice cup of tea:D

I already have the tea but no KitKat, unfortunately... :(

meat_loaf2008

22 Apr 2010, 19:42

how about we leave it for now guys? everybody go cool off!! im 100% behind you Caryl/Doode/Su/,, but lets have a kitkat, and a nice cup of tea:D

Tried stating this back a page...didn't help -.-. Imo, its STUPID to argue about such things. We love meat. End of story. Yeah, we all have our own opinios BUT that doesnt mean we always have to voice them. If you know what yo usay is goign to start conflict...why say it? Your just asking for shit from people.

Meat should be allowed to defend himself, yes. But he shouldn't have to.

Get over it guys. As George Carlin once said.... Its all bullsht folks, and its bad for ya....

A Slice Of English

22 Apr 2010, 19:44

I've remained fairly quiet on this thread. I am not one to fan flames in any direction but I think there needs to be some balance here.

I think some perspective should be taken. Remember why we're all here? Because we love/worship/admire/follow/WHATEVER the man that is Meat Loaf. We follow him for our own individual reasons, whether that be to do with his acting, his singing or his personality. We come to this site to express our interest in the man that has given us so much of himself over the past 40 years that really, you cannot expect him to consider us anything other than his support network. Where do you go to when you feel low? Where do you go to when you want reassurance? Where do you go to when you want to introduce your acheivements?

You go to your support network and you expect a "welcome" that no one else can give. When you've had a shit day at work, you go home and you tell your wife/husband/significant other and you share in your problems because you know that person/those people will love you no matter what. It's unconditional.

And that, THAT should be fan love. Fan is short for "fanatic". To be a fan of someone, you should be there for them when they need you. Honesty is appreciated, of course it is. If you want to be a yes-man, find somewhere else to go because how can we help someone grow, develop and go on to greater things if all we do is say "You're so good, you can't do any better"? Any support network will be there to help that person through each stage of their lives.

Meat has chosen this site, for better or worse, to be a place where he can come to mix a little, to let off steam a little and to share in his life. That is a precious, precious thing however you look at it. I think we need to understand that Meat is a man who WELCOMES feedback on his work, so long as it is productive and can HELP him see what others think and from that, maybe, just maybe take a little something away from it that he can use in the future.

Meat doesn't come here so that someone can say "I don't like it" over and over again in different ways but with the same meaning, offering nothing to the conversation. HCTB is Meat's baby, he said it himself. You don't go up to someone and say "Hey, I hate your baby, it sucks." and then every time you see that baby in the street or someone remarks on the baby you retort with a "Nah, it's ugly, I hate it", particularly when you are supposed to be part of that person's support network.

You're no fan if you do.

I'm not saying there deserves to be a double standard here. I'm saying there needs to be action taken against those who have no intention of giving Meat that unconditional support he deserves.

nikox1

22 Apr 2010, 19:47

You've proven my point, thank you. :p

did you think that up all by yourself?:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:,, i cant stop laughing!! i will post on the kitkat;)

Dave

22 Apr 2010, 19:48

I corrected it, but you quoted me before I clicked on 'save'. It should have read "I'm NOT trying to tell you how to run your own forum".

So, sorry if that came across in the wrong light. I'm happy that you guys are seriously looking into everything we've discussed here.

Doode.

Anytime Doode...glad to see you have found your way here and are posting and joining in the conversation - good and bad. Thanks ahead of time for understanding it is a tough situation - both on the side of the mods and on the side of people who feel like they are just sitting there waiting on us to do something. We are doing the best we can for the forums.

Sarge

22 Apr 2010, 19:49

did you think that up all by yourself?:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

No, I have one of those brain slugs from Futurama sitting on my head. Please blame everything I say on it. :twisted:

TheDoode

22 Apr 2010, 19:50

Anytime Doode...glad to see you have found your way here and are posting and joining in the conversation - good and bad. Thanks ahead of time for understanding it is a tough situation - both on the side of the mods and on the side of people who feel like they are just sitting there waiting on us to do something. We are doing the best we can for the forums.

No worries Dave, it's got to be hard to know which action to take sometimes. I think everyone here appreciates what you and the other mods do.

Doode. :cool:

suzieq

22 Apr 2010, 19:51

Please, Caryl and everyone else, know we are working on the root cause of the issue and I think everyone would be much more satisfied with a thorough scrub and well evaluated cure to the issue rather than just another knee jerk, quick fix reaction.

Scrub away!!!!! I love a clean slate!

how about we leave it for now guys? everybody go cool off!! im 100% behind you Caryl/Doode/Su/,, but lets have a kitkat, and a nice cup of tea:D

All I have is some sub-par Dunkin' Donuts Java and a granola bar...it'll have to do. :))

Suzieq

Dave

22 Apr 2010, 19:52

I'm not saying there deserves to be a double standard here. I'm saying there needs to be action taken against those who have no intention of giving Meat that unconditional support he deserves.

This is currently being looked into by the mod team.

A Slice Of English

22 Apr 2010, 19:53

I think the real message is in the rest of my post.

Megan

22 Apr 2010, 20:11

This is currently being looked into by the mod team.

Dave - thanks to the moderators for looking into it and taking the time to come up with appropriate action(s). Meat and the integrity of the site deserves it :)

22 Apr 2010, 21:15

I have tried to address some of the points mentioned. Please take this as what it is, a reply to this thread and not as a final statement from an admin. Well, there's one excepton - it's right below.

I am hoping that the truth of "you can't have your cake and eat it too" will sink in, the choice will be made to accept the honor of hosting (and not muzzling!) Meat, and the thread (up to and including his last post, with the rest lopped off) will be restored.

No. The thread will remain deleted. This is a public forum. The "General Messages" area is available to anyone who choses to go there. That includes search engines as well. Now, imagine someone researching Meat Loaf, finding mlukfc.com through Google, learning that Fire Ball actually is Meat Loaf reads this thread without knowing the circumstances behind it. That person will probably get a perception of Meat Loaf that is miles away from the perception we'd like to see. Btw, a thread like this (and there have been some) would have been removed on the old .net in a heartbeat.

I can see it from both sides but I am not a Mod or is Meat for that matter so why it was deleted and who requested it is just speculation here. Has anyone actually asked a mod before thinking about starting this debate? It did get ugly from what I read. Surely this is not the right time to have such negative threads around? And in the end this site is paid for and hosted not by any of us so we should respect that as well. Yeah sure you can have the whole democracy debate but perhaps things get removed as that can also be in Meat's interest and reputation?
Yes.

But I can also see that whilst the thread might have sent a message to those here who indulge in that behaviour, to newcomers it could easily be open to misinterpretation, given we have the rather daft situation where Meat can't use his own name. People often take a while to accept that this IS Meat posting, and when they don't know the background that's led up to what took place yesterday, it could look very strange.My fault, as I have explained in a different thread (http://www.mlukfc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6695). I can fix that, but that would require to assign the current "meat loaf" a new name. Nothing impossible. I have the impression though, that he's happy with "Fire Ball".

Personally I would have liked a clear statement on the forum when this was removed that the behaviour that provoked it is not acceptable, that Meat is honoured here and deserves respect. That if you don't like some of his work you may of course say this but should do so politely, with respect for his feelings.As it is with the rules, nobody will reads this. Out of interest, how would you word this in two sentences?

By the way, why do we actually argue about some stupid thing that happened yesterday and that many people - fortunately - did not witness? It's in the past!I wonder abut this as well.

It took me ages to actually grasp the reality of this site and to this day there are posts that piss me off or I think were written by a complete idiot but it's how I react that's changed. The truth is this isn't Meat's site, it isn't .net, it's an independant fan club run by the fans for the fans, not for the artist.

I agree that it's brilliant Meat chooses to post here (if he didn't I wouldn't have gone to the London listening party) but I also like the fact that not every post has to be I love it, it's brilliant etc etc. Opposing viewpoints are welcomed here, not all fans are going to love everything Meat does, personally I hated Popstar to Operastar and laughed out loud at the BOOH arrangement. Saying that though I think Meat was right, continuosly poking at something is wrong but the thread the way it went was wrong, whilst some think that Meat should be allowed to posts whatever he wants is right, I don't. Personally I don't want to see someone I've admired and followed for donkey's years reduce himself to the level of those just trying to wind him up, Meat called him out and said what many thought and that's where he should've left it, as stated earlier in this thread it turned into a battle not a discussion so it was right it was removed and I'd like to think in the cold light of day Meat would agree with that.Agreed.

... that if soon we all don't agree to disagree and shake on it ... :cheer: ... this thread will be locked... right ? ... it's already been tucked away in Feedback Central ... :bleh:... lol ... SEIZE THE DAY AND PEACE IT OUT !!!! ... :yay: ...Well, this IS a feedback issue, or is it not? And right now I don't see why this one should be locked.

As far as I'm concerned it should be one rule for all regardless of who the poster is, otherwise what's the point in the rules?Exactly.

I dont have a "report" button anymore on here I lost it when I switched to a 64 bit O/S and added the facebook bridgeI need a screenshot to see what your are seeing. It should look like this.
http://media.mlxxfc.net/report.png

Like we always do .. until the next time when Meat is prodded with a stick, reacts and it starts all over again?Then, how will you proactively stop this? The only way to achieve this is to moderate each and every post before it goes public. The software can do this, but you don't want this and for sure we do not want to check up to 500 posts a day to see if they are in accord with our rules.

The moderators of this forum have done a very good job so far. It's none of their business what members of this forum say or don't say on other forums. What matters is whether they violate the rules of this forum. As far as I know, several members have already gotten warnings or have been banned when that was the case, so there's no reason to complain about how this forum is being moderated. It's interesting that it's usually the same bunch of people who are trying to tell the mods what to do (and I suspect many of them rather like to add fuel to fire than simply click the report button).Iirc there has been one ban that was issued after two infractions. I shelled out one trolling infraction for a trolling attempt in one of the review threads and there have been numerous removed posts because of complaints (reports). We do react to reported posts and the particular issue that eventually caused this thread was "resolved" within 3 hours.

meat_loaf2008

22 Apr 2010, 21:27

Cheers R. much appreciated

AndrewG

22 Apr 2010, 21:32

Thanks R and the other mods for addressing this.

It's funny this in a way as it reminds me of the Jonathan Ross / Russell Brand incident. Hardly anyone would have heard that original insult/joke and then all of a sudden gazillions of people were "offended" by what was said and made complaints. Crazy. It's not exactly the same what has happened here but it is funny that there are countless more opinions in this thread than were number of posts in the original thread which was removed.

suzieq

22 Apr 2010, 21:47

R.,

Thanks for your reply to several key elements here so far, I look forward to hearing the final assessment from admin.

Respectfully,
Suzieq

CarylB

22 Apr 2010, 21:55

Thanks for comments Rainer. You asked me a couple of questions. Like you I need a bit of thinking time ;) And will get back to you

Caryl

djfierce

22 Apr 2010, 22:29

Rainer,

This is your site and as far as i have seen, you've always ran a fair ship.

In regards to Meat's posts i see it in a very simple way

Yes his name is up top and with that we should all show a little respect for the man we are supposed to be here for, someone said to me once before that they were here because of Jim's music and not for Meat, well i do believe there is a seperate site for that. I simply dont understand why some and i do stress only some, are here as i have never once read a positive thing about Meat EVER from them.

However those that post honest reviews and have the decency to give a constructive reason behind it should feel free to post how they feel. I do not believe for one minute that Meat isn't open to honest respectable opinions. Mindless argumentative stuff should absolutely be deleted and the poster dealt with accordingly.

As far as Meat goes

Well i kind of figure he's big enough to object to R personally if he has a problem with his posts being removed, and i suspect that after going back a little while later possibly agrees with the post no longer being there. If he doesn't i'm sure R and Meat are able to discuss this. One thing has always been apparant, Meat has a healthy respect for R, do you think he would if he thought he was being censored or treated anything other than he should? Meat does get special treatment to an extent and does make posts that alot of us wouldnt get away with, the only deleted posts i have seen have been when Meat has clearly been pushed to the point of saying something he otherwise wouldnt. Deleting these posts is in Meat's interest too, if i was a newbie and had come to this site, looked back through some of the recent posts which take me to heavily edited threads, it would be easy for me to have a poor opinion of the man, given that everyone else's posts would have been edited or even removed i would not be able to see what exactly Meat was answering and may get the opinion he just blows off at the slightest issue.

We know that's not true, but only because we read those threads before they were edited, but besides putting whoever in their place at the time, and showing them they can't just 'piss' all over his hard work, what purpose would it serve for that kind of post to continue to exist?

I can't think of a single positive reason myself.

Long live the man, his opinions, personality and more importantly ability to speak up for himself and defend his own character, but that shouldn't exist without any boundary whatsoever, just a little more relaxed than us normal folk ;)

Made sense in my head anyway :roll:

Fire Ball

23 Apr 2010, 02:31

I agree thread should come down !! I threw my toys out of the pram !
M
It was a pretty ugly thread and I'm glad it has been removed. I do not favor censorship but with regard to the reputation of this forum, I think it was the right decision. People who aren't familiar with the background and who stumble over such threads could easily misinterpret them.

CarylB

23 Apr 2010, 02:44

I agree thread should come down !! I threw my toys out of the pram !
M

Eventually, yes. But you shouldn't be made to feel the need to .. Best to consign the thread to history though.

You're a big man ;)

Caryl xo

MeatGrl1

23 Apr 2010, 02:47

I agree thread should come down !! I threw my toys out of the pram !
M

It's sad that you got pushed to THAT extreem though.

Vickip

23 Apr 2010, 02:50

Eventually, yes. But you shouldn't be made to feel the need to .. Best to consign the thread to history though.

You're a big man ;)

Caryl xo

Exactly right Caryl
Vicki

lorenzoduke

23 Apr 2010, 03:02

If two parties have resolved an argument or dispute, I don't see why the thread should be preserved for gossip vultures to descend on, for whatever my opinion's worth.

suzieq

23 Apr 2010, 03:34

I agree thread should come down !! I threw my toys out of the pram !
M

I'll concede for motion of the thread to remain down out of respect. As far as future toy throwing.....I would hope the mods move it to a member only (non google-able) area like they did with this thread.

Suzieq

Sue K

23 Apr 2010, 03:40

lorenzoduke

23 Apr 2010, 03:47

Members only sections can't be included in Google search terms. Non-members/public sections can.

Sue K

23 Apr 2010, 03:52

Members only sections can't be included in Google search terms. Non-members/public sections can.

i don't understand why sections of a forum would be googled... a person can google UK Meat Loaf Fan Club and come here and see the Feedback Section and read the posts without joining... at least that's how it appears to me ...

Fire Ball

23 Apr 2010, 03:55

They can ? News to me !! not good !
M

Sue K

23 Apr 2010, 03:58

They can ? News to me !! not good !
M

what i did was log out and come on and i could see the feedback section ... maybe it's still in cookies or something ? ... but i think when you log out you clear cookies for the UK website... i don't mean to upset you or anyone Chiefie ... it's just what i see... i could be doing something the wrong way though ... xo

CarylB

23 Apr 2010, 04:06

i don't understand why sections of a forum would be googled... a person can google UK Meat Loaf Fan Club and come here and see the Feedback Section and read the posts without joining... at least that's how it appears to me ...

Confuses the hell out of me ;) .. When you log out and log in again tink you are a member, so all sections will be visible. What Rainer referred to re Google was I think more about people just searching on Google and connecting to the site as non-members.

But this site isn't like a pay site, and one reason the thread was better removed was that new members can quickly and easly join and get access, and something out of context and without knowledge of the background, wouldn't look that good. The other of course is that it's done and over.

Better to let R and his team consider how best to prevent the poking with a stick so Meat doesn't feel the need to defend himself .. because as most of us agree, he shouldn't ever feel he has to on a fan club site. He's always open to reasoned and reasonable feedback which is worded with respect for him as a hugely talented and experienced performer and which doesn't consist of sustained attacks on his work or attacks on his character or motives.

Rainer says they're working on it, so hopefully a resolution will be found, and this can be the positive place it should be and one where Meat doesn't get poked and prodded into having to defend himself.

Caryl

Sue K

23 Apr 2010, 04:11

what i did was log out and come on and i could see the feedback section ... maybe it's still in cookies or something ? ... but i think when you log out you clear cookies for the UK website... i don't mean to upset you or anyone Chiefie ... it's just what i see... i could be doing something the wrong way though ... xo

i logged out and got this message below:

All cookies cleared!
Return to the page you were previously viewing
Go to forums index

i googled UK Meat Loaf fan club ... did not log on ... checked the forums... saw Feedback Central ~ went to Meat's posts thread and went to post a reply and got message below:

You are not logged in or you do not have permission to access this page. This could be due to one of several reasons:
You are not logged in. Fill in the form at the bottom of this page and try again.
You may not have sufficient privileges to access this page. Are you trying to edit someone else's post, access administrative features or some other privileged system?
If you are trying to post, the administrator may have disabled your account, or it may be awaiting activation.
Log inUser Name:

Password:

Forgotten Your Password? Remember Me?

The administrator may have required you to register before you can view this page.

so i logged in to make this post ...

it seems to me anyone accessing the site may be able to see the Feedback Section ?... i don't know ... xo

Vickip

23 Apr 2010, 04:17

I did the same thing tink ... I logged out using IE and then pulled up the forum again
using FireFox. I could pull up both General Messages and Feedback Central and read all of the threads, but I had to log in to be able to post a message.

Hopefully someone will correct me if I'm wrong ... but I think you have to log in before
reading the other sections of the message board.

suzieq

23 Apr 2010, 04:44

@Tink:
go to pm

Suzieq

suzieq

23 Apr 2010, 05:01

They can ? News to me !! not good !
M

Shhhhh.........keep your toys safely tucked until the mods figure it out.

Suzieq

mszee

23 Apr 2010, 05:56

I agree thread should come down !! I threw my toys out of the pram !
M

Oh my god...can I just meet you again so that I can give you big hug for this? This is priceless and very big of you...

mszee

23 Apr 2010, 06:06

I just stumbled on this thread...and obviously, I side with R., Monstro, Duke, Sarge to name just a few and last but not the least...Meat...

I do want to add something to what has been said already...

It started with unfortunate post on another forum, it upset Meat...but he moved on...and we didn't...

We started all out war in that thread where we were slugging crap at each other left and right...we...who should be united in our love for the artist...we even forgot what started it in the first place...as long as we could hit each other where it hurts...and hit HARD...

Thread is, thank god, removed...and relative peace comes on...then we open the can of worms again and all out war with crap hitting the fan starts again...

That is why it's good that threads like these are removed or locked...because there is somebody out there who should say...enough already...and thank god we have people here who can...

Enough already....please...respect the admins and mods of this site and their decisions...cause Meat obviously does...and if you think that everything Meat does is right...then accept the fact that removing that thread is right as well...and I would love to see this one removed as well...lol....

djfierce

23 Apr 2010, 09:37

look, if Meat's big enough to put it to rest and admit even he goes too far sometimes then we should leave it at that. Wasn't it Meat's post we were discussing? You read his opinion so leave it at that.

As far as google-able things, i'm pretty sure the situation is that you can read the whole forum as a non member but you just can't post.

Now I took it that meat posted in here to have the finaly word and to lay this to rest so can we just all agree with him? It seems we all kind of do anyway from our posts.

suzieq

23 Apr 2010, 18:06

Well, as the mods go over the details and discuss within the group, they will actually have the final say because Meat isn't above the rules right now and doesn't have the "say" some of us wish him to have. Be it final or otherwise.

Emotions are very high on topic. But now a solution must be derived all the while preserving Meat's public image.

djfierce

23 Apr 2010, 20:08

sorry Suzie, i really like you and your posts, but you cannot seriously suggest Meat's opinions aren't taken into consideration and he doesn't have a sizeable say. Having met R on several occasions and witnessing Meat with him before too, i would seriously doubt Meat feels he isn't being treated as he should. As he said himself, it went too far and should have been taken down. There is absolutely no good purpose for those posts to remain, for Meat's own sake they shouldn't have stayed and i do believe he sees that.
Emotions are very high but i don't understand why, he makes the posts, he calls people out like he should be able to, but once it starts to turn bad and possibly could be used to make him look bad they are deleted, not all censorship is bad, and to suggest that Meat should have free run to me is a little naive. I don't believe he would want it that way, he obviously has no problem with it as he keeps posting here, even after he has posts deleted, it seems to me the people who have the problem are some fans .

Don't disregard and disrespect the owner of this site so out of hand, he is as big a fan of Meat as the rest of us, maybe even bigger considering he takes the time to finance and run this site. There is no way this site is intended to censor Meat or hold him back from talking to his fans, and there is definately no way the owner would not listen to Meat should he raise concerns, if that were the case, Meat wouldn't be here and wouldn't hold Rainer in the high regard that he so obviously does.

on your last sentence about preserving Meat's public image, i absolutely believe that the deletion of those posts does exactly that. He was able to call the guy out and put him in his place, end of story, the purpose was served, what good reason is there for that to remain around for joe bloggs to stumble upon and misread.

23 Apr 2010, 21:03

I'll concede for motion of the thread to remain down out of respect. As far as future toy throwing.....I would hope the mods move it to a member only (non google-able) area like they did with this thread.

Suzieq

hi Suzieq ... what do you mean by "non google-able" ? ... i logged off to see if the feedback section is visible... and it is ... and i can read the posts there ...

Members only sections can't be included in Google search terms. Non-members/public sections can.

i don't understand why sections of a forum would be googled... a person can google UK Meat Loaf Fan Club and come here and see the Feedback Section and read the posts without joining... at least that's how it appears to me ...

They can ? News to me !! not good !
M
The areas covering more general content like "General Messages","Loaf, Camera Action","Tyre Tracks & Broken Hearts","Feedback","Test" and "Off Topic" are available to the public and can therefore be indexed by Google, Bing, Yahoo and others. The search engines bring new visitors to the site, which obviously should be in our interest. These areas are read-only though.

The real content areas like "Tour Talk","Bat3" and "HCTB" are setup differently. Anonymous users can enter the forums and see the thread titles, but they cannot access the content. You have to sign up and confirm your email address before you can access the content. Posting access will only be granted after the new signup has been reviewed and approved by the team. This is mainly done to reduce forum spam.

Hope that answers the questions.

suzieq

23 Apr 2010, 21:23

TheDoode

23 Apr 2010, 22:13

Isn't the censorsing/removing thing just a minor side issue to the fact that there are people that post here who are causing... problems for other users, for Meat, and for anyone who doesn't want to feel chewed up and spat out after visiting for more than a couple of hours?

Isn't that why everyone's so upset? Why Meat gets upset? And why I think 'Jezus, I'd like to be part of this... but the atmosphere really kills it at times'.

Underneath everything, isn't that what we're talking about? Sorry to be blunt, but it feels like this issue is constantly being glazed over.

Peace

Doode.

CarylB

23 Apr 2010, 22:33

Isn't the censorsing/removing thing just a minor side issue to the fact that there are people that post here who are causing massive problems - for other users, for Meat, and for anyone who doesn't want to feel like a piece of shit after visiting for more than a couple of hours in a row?

Isn't that why everyone's so upset here? Why Meat gets upset, occasionally? And why I think 'Jezus, I'd like to be part of this but the atmosphere is so negative and bitchy that I can't afford to stay'.

Underneath everything, isn't that what we're talking about here? Sorry to be so blunt, but it feels like this issue is constantly being glazed over.

Peace

Doode.

Yes, I think it is secondary to what you describe. As you say no-one wants to be poked at for supporting Meat or being enthusiastic about what he's doing, and no-one wants to see him being provoked.

From posts from the moderator team and Rainer on this thread, they have indicated that they are looking at ways of dealing with this, have reminded us that they are always ready to respond to us reporting posts, and taken some actions concerning those who provoked the most recent problems .. so it seems to me are not intending to glaze over it. Until then I tend to feel the discussion has run its course, and if Rainer and his team can come up with something which helps prevent a small number of people making the forum unpleasant for us and most particularly for Meat, then it will have achieved something valuable imo.

Caryl

TheDoode

23 Apr 2010, 22:42

Agreed :cool:

Doode.

duke knooby

23 Apr 2010, 22:52

Isn't the censorsing/removing thing just a minor side issue to the fact that there are people that post here who are causing... problems for other users, for Meat, and for anyone who doesn't want to feel chewed up and spat out after visiting for more than a couple of hours?

Doode.

This is an excellent forum with a FANTASTIC moderation team, who DO deal with issues and rule breaks etc etc

It might be a reasonable time to mention that any member here who is having problems with another member, also has the facility of an ignore button.

djfierce

24 Apr 2010, 02:08

@ Anji your p.m. box is full but I tried to send you this:

Anji,
I like you too :) I wanted to let you know that I'm giving what you said a serious thinking about...in a good way. Once I gather a cohesive stream of thought about it I will respond on forum.

I just didn't want you to think I was ignoring your post or being elusive to discussion.

Respectfully,
Suzanne

Thanks Suzie :-)

I'd like to say it was because i'm popular but actually i'm just lazy at clearing my box lol

Hope my post makes sense lol i tend to type and think at the same time which isn't always good :lol:

I won't post anymore as i think this is runnning it's course and not really a good thread to be constantly active right now but i kind of sit in the middle of the sides of opinions here i think.

Great to see Meat posting some more relaxed friendly posts :-D

Vickip

24 Apr 2010, 02:39

Hope my post makes sense lol i tend to type and think at the same time which isn't always good :lol:

It made perfect sense to me Anji :-)

Great to see Meat posting some more relaxed friendly posts :-D

I second that :)) I love seeing Meat relaxed and really enjoying himself on here :-D

MeatGrl1

24 Apr 2010, 02:47

Me three !!
And that also made perfect sense to me ;) :up:.

suzieq

24 Apr 2010, 02:57

sorry Suzie, i really like you and your posts, but you cannot seriously suggest Meat's opinions aren't taken into consideration and he doesn't have a sizeable say.

Don't be sorry. We can disagree and I am civil. However, you are right. Meat does have a say. I have a better understanding now and I changed my mind.
He does get to call some one out and put his "kids" in their place.

Don't disregard and disrespect the owner of this site so out of hand, he is as big a fan of Meat as the rest of us,

I am apologize to R. right now if it appeared I was being disrespectful. I've never doubting his fanship or size of it. I actually pale in comparison, I just passionately believe in the fact that something needs to be done preventatively instead of after the fact.

on your last sentence about preserving Meat's public image, i absolutely believe that the deletion of those posts does exactly that. He was able to call the guy out and put him in his place, end of story, the purpose was served, what good reason is there for that to remain around for joe bloggs to stumble upon and misread.

I agreed with the threads being kept down once Meat's post went up. And I agree, it is in Meat's best interest and image to keep the threads away from the rubber neckers of the internet who can misinterpret situations.

Some areas of this post was not really applicable to me, but I'll pm you to clarify what I mean.

Suzieq