Recent Events

[ianmar]

Hi,

I've been a member of this site for years and I visit regularly - in fact almost daily - but rarely post. I love the people here and like reading the arguments and different points of view. I'm also a long time Meat Loaf fan going right back to 1978 when I was 11. I have spent literally thousands of pounds on concerts, CD's, books, DVD's and even the occasional bootleg - shh. I've stood for hours at times on book signings and in queues for tickets. Other than my deep love of Springsteen's music, no other artist has made such a major contribution to my life. I feel I am entitled to speak here.

To me, this is a fan site, not an artist site. Visitors here, whilst I hope that they would all be Meat Loaf fans to some extent (not everyone has to LOVE him), are quite within their right to discuss both Meat's highlights and lowlights. That kind of discussion, and often disagreement, is what makes this site the success it is. 99% of us are simple fans who know no more about Meat than we read here or in the media. We don't know the background on relationships, TV shows, live concerts etc. We don't know the real nature of some of the difficulties Meat has encountered in his career. That doesn't stop us talking about these things, of course, in our blissful ignorance. It's what us fans do!

It is rare for an artist to connect with his fans in the way that Meat does here, and I'm very happy that he does, but he should be coming on here and having fun with people who love him whilst laughing at our ignorance. He should respect the things we like and the things we don't - because it is OUR site. Instead, he is at times being quite nasty to people who care about him. He is misinterpreting their words and calling nice people idiots and stupid, saying people "don't matter" etc. That type of criticism has started to change this board. One or two decent people have left and others, in my opinion, are becoming afraid to voice any opinions that might incur Meat's wrath. It's quite a surreal situation when the artists posts themselves are having to be removed. This is not healthy.

I don't want Meat to stop visiting the board but I think he should remember that this isn't his official site - it's our fan site where all our views are legitimate no matter how misguided they may be. Let's correct people where they are wrong, but let's do it in a way that doesn't belittle them or make them feel bad. Any other way will result in more people leaving this site and Meat alienating the very people who have loved and supported him through his career and who have spent quite large sums of hard earned money in the process.

Thanks.

Ian.

[Pudding]

Absolute kudos to you Ian for having the balls to post that. I'd place a safe bet that very shortly the post will be removed and you'll be banned or even worse, you'll get a very long response from annoyed forum members.

[Evil One]

I'll back up Pud :barf: and say you're pretty much spot on Ian.

[roomster]

Very well said Ian.

I hope the moderators don't removes this thread.

[SueW]

I hope the moderators don't removes this thread.

It was the moderators who suggested that he post it in Site Feedback after it was originally posted elsewhere on the board.

[LucyK!]

Great post Ian, really well written. And I'm sure you'll find it won't be removed as there's absolutely no need for it to be!

[K1ttycat]

Very good post. I totally agree. Maybe I am a bit of an oversensitive soul but I've been feeling a bit let down by recent....disputes. There is so much exciting and positive things that are discussed here and it is a shame to see anything that is slightly critical being attacked and focused on. I only wonder if Meat will see this thread due to its location.

Kathryn

[Sarahdk23]

I couldnt agree with you more, Iain!!

[GDW]

I'll back up Pud :barf: and say you're pretty much spot on Ian.

Nothing like backing up into a nice Pud.:D

[mariella]

Ian :up:

[roomster]

I only wonder if Meat will see this thread due to its location.

My thoughts too.

[Evil One]

If he doesn't then he'll probably see a few PMs telling him how people are saying nasty, horrible, evil things about him, how he should go and let rip and pointing him in this direction. :roll:

[Sarge]

I'd like to thank Ian for this post. I think most of you know my opinion on the issue by now. I temporarily left some weeks ago because of the problems described above. This is a nice community, actually the nicest I know, but it's no longer possible to have decent discussions and I'm getting tired of the unnecessary (!) arguments and fights. When the artist this forum is dedicated to says he doesn't care if he pisses everybody off and drives us away from here then something is going very, very wrong.

[Rage Against]

I'd also like to say thank you to Ian for his post. Ian gives me something interesting to comment on with my 200th post. And since Pudding said nothing about a long response from me, I'll feel free to post. :D

I agree with 95% of what you've said. I would only add that even though we are fans, that does not give us the right to attack or be insulting. Maybe you were trying to convey that with your post and if so, my apologies. However, I think if we look at the amount of critical posts on this forum, we'd see only a small portion, about 5% to 10%, provoke a response from Meat Loaf. Why? I'll leave that question up to everyone else's perspective.

And to Pudding, I'd like to play chess or some other game of strategy with you (if I'm not doing that already). I think that would be interesting as your posts, while seemingly harmless, definitely have a strategy. :twisted:

[Evil One]

I think that would be interesting as your posts, while seemingly harmless, definitely have a strategy. :twisted:
I've had this said about my posts before and there really is no strategy behind them, although that doesn't stop others from inventing one. :lol:

[CarylB]

I agree with Rage, the proportion that provoke a reaction from Meat is small and imo the reason for it is usually clear and to me understandable, even if he does post in haste and emotion. You said "We don't know the background on relationships, TV shows, live concerts etc. We don't know the real nature of some of the difficulties Meat has encountered ..." .. and it's often that background which is missing when we see Meat provoked, as was the case most recently

Caryl

[Sarge]

and it's often that background which is missing when we see Meat provoked, as was the case most recently

Nothing has happened on this board that justifies reactions that are way more offensive than the posts that upset him.

[AndrewG]

Some posts and comments are taken far too serious. No-one has come on the board recently and acted like an absolute moron provoking Meat saying some of the things he has done from what I can deduce.

Great post Ian, hope you decide to post more. Not enough Scots on the board! ;-)

[Devil's Son]

it's been a while since i've got the feeling i have something to say but after reading ian's words i think i have to. i wont explain why i have nothing to say, it's not the right place and it will take to much time.
first, thanks ian, for writing this.
second, thanks that it seems that this posting isn't removed (now)
i don't care if meaty reads this but these words seems to be necessary to remember all of us whose home this is. it's ours, so to say.
everyone on the board should take care of the rules - we and meaty. same rules for everyone and i mean it that way.
having meaty here is great as long as he takes care of the rules as everyone.
and by the way i also agree with sarge's words.
and now ... report me, banish me or whatever.
:cool: G

[The Flying Mouse]

:twisted: I've had a little tidy up of a couple of posts.

Can we please continue the thread without any unnecessary references to other forum members.

I think this thread brings up an interesting and valid point, and one that may be helped with a little civil communication.

I'd hate to see this thread locked, but that's what is going to happen if the discussion descends into the usual bickering and name calling between the usual factions.

Post with a little respect please and something good might actually come out of this thread.

[AndrewG]

Post with a little respect please and something good might actually come out of this thread.

I also hope this does not turn into a "let's gang up on Meat Loaf" thread as he does not deserve that either imo and after all he is also a forum member and a human being. Meat already pointed out that he wears his heart on his sleeve and that that is the reason why he probably posts with so much passion and perhaps what is perceived as aggression. This is tricky as I can see it from both sides but I sure as hell hope Meat never scares a fan away, I'm sure deep down he wouldn't really want to do that.

[stretch37]

Hey Ian,

Thanks for posting that. It sums up almost all of how I feel about the situation, being a pretty active member of this site before these problems began.

We have to remember that this is the INTERNET. As such, it is easy to overreact and misjudge what is written.

While I do not like how Meat has treated some fans, and how some fans treat Meat, I agree that it needs to stop.

I think part of the problem is that Meat has a high amount of stress on tour. And he likely does not have time to sit and think about the multiple ways he could interpret the dozens of written posts he goes through discussing his life or his apparent "choices"

The result that he reacts with his initial reaction. And then has to do damage control later and apologize.

Some of you do not enjoy this method. I can see why. Especially If I were the one being told I was a stupid idiot by my idol.

I truly hope this thread can be a success and a beginning to some small changes around here. Mainly, what the Mods have been suggesting all along: Read your post and think about how it will effect others before posting it.

Thanks again Ian for bringing it up in a way it can be discussed :-)

[Sarge]

I also hope this does not turn into a "let's gang up on Meat Loaf" thread

I don't think that is going to happen. I believe everybody favors a solution that does not make anybody feel bad. We are here because we like him and that's why it is especially tough to cope with the current events.

[Devil's Son]

I don't think that is going to happen. I believe everybody favors a solution that does not make anybody feel bad. We are here because we like him and that's why it is especially tough to cope with the current events.
exactly and from my point of view:
the rules are for everyone, right? and when i say everyone i mean it. not only person a or person b or c,d ..... all. and as far as i see these words are not disrespectful.

:cool:G

[stretch37]

as far as i see these words are not disrespectful.

:cool:G

I agree with that.

No single user should be considered 'above' the normal rules of conduct and courtesy. And no, I am not talking about Meat. I'm talking about anyone who has ever said a crude statement in the heat of the moment, myself included.

The rules of post conduct are for all users of all levels, and it makes sense to be this way. Fair treatment is why I used to post more.

I agree with some of you who say that Meat seems to feel at times like his opinions are being ganged up on, or "not believed". To address this point, I think it would be overwhelming to have hundreds of people nonchalantly posting opinions of me. It would be difficult to NOT overreact, especially if I were under stress of touring.

Meat is the only human being on mlukfc with this problem.

It is not normal for an artist to become a lively part of their fan forum.

So perhaps we need to start to act different than your average fan forum?

My proposal: Treat this forum as if your sitting in a room full of MLUKFC members and Meat is sitting at the head of the table. And he is listening to everything that is discussed.

This post should help Meat feel like he is not being alienated. I think an effort needs to be made from both the fans and Meat.

[R.]

My proposal: Treat this forum as if your sitting in a room full of MLUKFC members and Meat is sitting at the head of the table. And he is listening to everything that is discussed.
Even better, try to imagine to talk to the person in question face to face. Would you or anybody else really say that what you are about to post to the person standing or sitting opposite to you?

[daveake]

Even better, try to imagine to talk to the person in question face to face.

Well, I'm imagining that Pudding is right in front of me, and it seems to be having the opposite effect ... :twisted:

[Rage Against]

I've had this said about my posts before and there really is no strategy behind them, although that doesn't stop others from inventing one. :lol:

Fair enough, Evil One. Maybe Pudding can PM me with his thoughts on my post so we don't go off topic.

[Rage Against]

This thread can really be productive, if we keep in mind both sides bear some blame. If neither side attacks or insults, problem solved. And I like Stretch's and R's ideas.

[Julie in the rv mirror]

It is rare for an artist to connect with his fans in the way that Meat does here, and I'm very happy that he does, but he should be coming on here and having fun with people who love him whilst laughing at our ignorance. He should respect the things we like and the things we don't - because it is OUR site. Instead, he is at times being quite nasty to people who care about him. He is misinterpreting their words and calling nice people idiots and stupid, saying people "don't matter" etc. That type of criticism has started to change this board. One or two decent people have left and others, in my opinion, are becoming afraid to voice any opinions that might incur Meat's wrath. It's quite a surreal situation when the artists posts themselves are having to be removed. This is not healthy.


This is very well said, Ian. It is absolutely rare for artists to participate with their fans as Meat does, and that is one of the the things that attracted me to this place. I really do enjoy seeing his posts when they are of a positive nature. However, if that participation also gives him the "right" to say things that are quite mean, and IMO, undeserved, to people who have supported him, then, thank you, but I will pass. (And, I'm sure, will not be missed)

I am a member of several other artists' fan boards, and true, none of them interact with the fans the way Meat does, but I also do not see people on any of them being afraid to express an opinion for fear of being belittled by the artist for expressing that opinion. And trust, me, I have seen things that are way "worse" than anything that I have seen said here.

It's been suggested that we should think about what we are going to post and consider whether we would say the same thing if we were in the room with that person. I think this is good advice to a point; is my opinion any less valid because I am simply intimidated from expressing it?


Meat already pointed out that he wears his heart on his sleeve and that that is the reason why he probably posts with so much passion and perhaps what is perceived as aggression. This is tricky as I can see it from both sides but I sure as hell hope Meat never scares a fan away, I'm sure deep down he wouldn't really want to do that.

I'm sorry Andrew, but with the language he uses, how can it be perceived as anything other than aggressive? I know of another (pretty major) artist who interacts with fans on Facebook; I've seen him "call people out" for comments, yet he manages to do it respectfully.

[stretch37]

how can it be perceived as anything other than aggressive?

Because most people have said something in the heat of the moment, out of pure emotion, that they do not necessarily mean to be "aggressive". The issue is that the way he writes on his posts causes people to react to his words in a large (probably undesireable) way.

Meat is 1 person out of 4,000 members. Perhaps he feels that adding emotion and anger to his statements is necessary to get his point across and have others treat him the way he would like to be treated?

[duke knooby]

Would you or anybody else really say that what you are about to post to the person standing or sitting opposite to you?

probably yes ;)

great post ian btw!!

[Pudding]

And to Pudding, I'd like to play chess or some other game of strategy with you (if I'm not doing that already). I think that would be interesting as your posts, while seemingly harmless, definitely have a strategy. :twisted:

:devil:

Can we please continue the thread without any unnecessary references to other forum members.

Depends what's classed as unnecessary :saint:

Well, I'm imagining that Pudding is right in front of me, and it seems to be having the opposite effect ... :twisted:

:kickass:

[Julie in the rv mirror]

Because most people have said something in the heat of the moment, out of pure emotion, that they do not necessarily mean to be "aggressive".

And I think most people, having done such, would apologize.

Perhaps he feels that adding emotion and anger to his statements is necessary to get his point across and have others treat him the way he would like to be treated?

IMO, it makes him look like a bully. Fear and respect are two different things.

[stretch37]

And I think most people, having done such, would apologize.


IMO, it makes him look like a bully. Fear and respect are two different things.


Yeah I agree that it makes him look that way. Im sure Meat does not want to be seen as a bully on his own fan forum.

That is why I suggest that fans and Meat work together to speak as if they were face-to-face on all posts all the time. Can the fans initiate that? Maybe we should vote? :shock:

[CarylB]

I don't see a need to vote. Rainer put it very well .. and it's just decent and civil behaviour. I have not seen Meat post angrily in response to anyone who has expressed a view of his work with courtesy. And when it's due he has almost invariably apologised. Most recent events .. I personally consider he had no need to apologise; in fact I was rather surprised he wasn't more angry.

I love his presence here. I have never felt intimidated, but then I don't ever feel the need to hurl criticism at him in a way that provokes a reaction. I don't feel the need to vote to behave reasonably and in consideration of Meat's or anyone else's feelings. Like Andrew I hope this does not turn into a "let's gang up on Meat Loaf" thread as he does not deserve that imo, and we don't always know what else has happened elsewhere and underpins the post we see him responding to; we may but see the tip of an iceberg on this forum.

Caryl

[stretch37]

I don't see a need to vote.



It was mostly a joke the point out that i dont think we need to vote.

Its just that "fair" behavior and "courtesy" are broad terms. Each person on this forum probably has a slightly different idea of both.

So, Mods and R, is there a way we can create a set of rules, in collaboration with Meat, for how fans interact with Meat, given the unique situation of our fan forum? Maybe an official guideline is needed?

Meat has been much more active on the forums in recent months and I think a new solution needs to occur to help us all leap over this particular barrier and move on. I can already see the two 'sides' beginning to argue here and I wonder if the spiral is already beginning?

[Pudding]

Meat gets given a lot of leaway because...well...he's Meat, which is fair enough I suppose, and when he's stepped well over the line R. has either edited or delete his post, which is Kudos to R.

If Meat didn't focus so much on the negatives, especially when there aren't many of them, then he'd be a more happy chappy on here.

[AndrewG]

So, Mods and R, is there a way we can create a set of rules for how fans interact with Meat, given the unique situation of our fan forum? Maybe an official guideline is needed.. This conflict has been going on for months and this discussion could quickly spiral down like all of the others if we don't begin to discuss some sort of solution.

That sounds absolutely ridiculous. I would hate for the freedom of speech (that we have here to a certain extent at least) to be undermined with some crazy rule book.

Meat is a human being who wears his heart on his sleeve and so are many of his fans who post here. It's most likely why we all love his music because of the raw emotion that it has and most of us are probably very emotional people. I hate to see him get upset and I hate to see a fan get upset, get insulted, whatever has gone before. It's great that this has been pointed out by someone who felt the need to break his silence but we shouldn't turn this into more than it is.
1 1/2 weeks ago Meat came on here and all hell broke loose, but then he pretty much apologised (maybe not enough for some which I can understand) but in any case he showed his vulnerability. Unfortunately then he had another go late last week and I know it wasn't justified as many will think. I hope it all does calm down for our sake and Meat's sake but let's not get too carried away with what "needs" to be done. As has been pointed out, let's all post with a bit of consideration (Meat included please if you are listening) but let's also not try to change people's personalities.

[AndrewG]

If Meat didn't focus so much on the negatives, especially when there aren't many of them, then he'd be a more happy chappy on here.

Indeed. :up:
He's been getting a lot of praise and that's great to see.

[allrevvedup]

I can already see the two 'sides' beginning to argue here and I wonder if the spiral is already beginning?

and there's always three sides to every story

before this starts to go the way of...well the majority of threads here

can we make sure this stays on topic?

personally i thought it was a very good post to open a thread, well thought out and pretty well balanced.

i'd love to see that be maintained...if only to give us mods less to do:-P

"One must think like a hero to behave like a merely decent human being."
-- May Sarton

[Bubbles]

I also think this thread is an important thing for this forum here.

Then I think it's an important argument that this here is not an official forum. It is a huge difference to go to an official board and freely criticize the person or to be doing that here in my opinion.

And lastly but most importantly, yes we are merely fans discussing about things we know little or nothing about but that is what fans do.
So I for one expect a professional singer who has a long career with a lot of sucess to manage to keep his temper when reading what his sweet little fanbase thinks, maybe laugh about (as has been said before) our more or less naive opinions and move on.
Now every person now and then looses their temper, that's perfectly fine. We are all humans after all. But it has happened a lot of times recently and that justifies this thread for me

Alright folks, that were my 2 cents

Caryl, what do you mean by that I wonder?
we may but see the tip of an iceberg on this forum.

Caryl

[duke knooby]

and there's always three sides to every story

:up: you knows it!!

[Monstro]

Meat gets given a lot of leaway because...well...he's Meat, which is fair enough I suppose, and when he's stepped well over the line R. has either edited or delete his post, which is Kudos to R.

If Meat didn't focus so much on the negatives, especially when there aren't many of them, then he'd be a more happy chappy on here.

Find myself agreeing with Pud here.

[Bubbles]

That sounds absolutely ridiculous. I would hate for the freedom of speech to be undermined with some crazy rule book.


yep, I don't see a praticable way for those guidelines as well. I think this thread is interesting and important, yes, but cannot really see a concrete guideline coming out of this.
It's more like a "code of honour" thing that people should think of when typing a post.

[Pudding]

It's most likely why we all love his music because of the raw emotion that it has

Technically it's not his music, other people write the songs ;)

Caryl, what do you mean by that I wonder

Icebergs melt, especially the tips of them, this forum could be the start of a bigger meltdown for Meat, maybe due to the climate change of the music industry :shrug:

[MeatGrl1]

Ian thanks very much for this post, I feel it's what alot have been thinking and feeling for a long time now but were too afraid to take that jump and actually post it, well done and thank you :up:.



Can we please continue the thread without any unnecessary references to other forum members.



Mabe you could use this advice in the future too Neil :roll: !!

[stretch37]

That sounds absolutely ridiculous.

I agree.

I never said I thought the guideline would be practical. But its worth discussing both extreme ends of it. That is one extreme that I would hate to see explored as well.

But a code of honor seems the polar opposite - much too lax.

In other news, I agree about trying to focus on the positive.

[Julie in the rv mirror]

I don't see a need to vote. Rainer put it very well .. and it's just decent and civil behaviour.

I don't see a need to vote, either. But I don't find Meat's responses to those posters to be decent or civil behavior, either.

Most recent events .. I personally consider he had no need to apologise; in fact I was rather surprised he wasn't more angry.

I disagree. It's hard to say with 100% certainty, because there are probably posts that have been deleted that I missed, but I did not see any posts that justified the type of response which they received. If we were to treat each other in the same manner, it would never be tolerated (and rightly so). Fans have feelings, too, and they can be hurt, especially when they have a lot invested, whether it be time, money, etc.

I have never felt intimidated, but then I don't ever feel the need to hurl criticism at him in a way that provokes a reaction.

Again, I don't feel the comments were made with the intent to provoke.

I do feel intimidated, and I don't think I'm a person to "hurl criticism" at anyone. Using the "person in the room" analogy, I compare it to being afraid to voice my opinion in a business meeting (however respectfully phrased) because I'm afraid that the boss will berate me if I disagree with him.

we don't always know what else has happened elsewhere and underpins the post we see him responding to; we may but see the tip of an iceberg on this forum.


Then we shouldn't see the end result on this forum, either. It's not fair to the other members.

[roomster]

Well said Julie :-)

I feel however, that some people on this forum have an almost manic desire to raise and glorify Meat all the time. No matter what he writes, says or does.

[stretch37]

Then we shouldn't see the end result on this forum, either. It's not fair to the other members.

I agree. Its difficult to see the tip of the iceberg, get involved in something you don't fully understand, and then have to try to backtrack and patch things up with people.

Once the damage is done, its too late...As illustrated by this topic. :(

[Evil One]

I feel that some people on this forum have an almost manic desire to raise and glorify Meat all the time. No matter what he writes, says or does.
And also there are a couple of people here who enjoy winding Meat up and watching him go. I remember back to the 'heated discussion' Meat and I had a while back. In between our unpleasant posts were a couple of people doing the equivalent of cheering on a schoolyard scrap. :twisted:

[stretch37]

Well said Julie :-)
I feel that some people on this forum have an almost manic desire to raise and glorify Meat all the time. No matter what he writes, says or does.

Im not sure using the word manic will really help the conversation along lol :P

Anyways, ya your right. If you divide the forum users into categories

Group A people treat Meat like your average dude. And have agreements/disagreements with him on a regular basis.

Group B people treat him like everything he does is justifiable and they ignore the negative stuff

The rest of us are in between. All personality types have their place. Thats not the issue.

The issue is when "UsernameBlah" gets singled out and ranted at for their opinion. Regardless of who this is, I do not agree with it. It is very sad to watch and I applaud those of you who stand your ground.

I think the thing to remember is that most things that are said, By Anyone, are not meant to be hurtful. It may just be that person's stress coming out in the wrong way. Most of us want to get along for the most part.

If we look at it from that point of view, it should avoid some of these situations.

Meat can be really dramatic so we need to learn to see through the drama of how he talks, and see the point he is trying to make instead of REACTING.

[Pudding]

Im not sure using the word manic will really help the conversation along lol :P

Does 'euphoric frenzy' work? http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c131/NZPudding/dancing.gif

[stretch37]

Does 'euphoric frenzy' work? http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c131/NZPudding/dancing.gif

LOL i forgot about that gif

[Rage Against]

I'm starting to get the Meat Loaf's guilty and we're all innocent vibe from this thread. Not true people. But let's see who else is going to pile on.

[stretch37]

I'm starting to get the Meat Loaf's guilty and we're all innocent vibe from this thread. Not true people. But let's see who else is going to pile on.

I guess some people seem to give that impression.

Thats not what i think though.

I think the change should come from everyone involved. And anyone who says otherwise.....good luck convincing Meat of that ;)

[Pudding]

I'm starting to get the Meat Loaf's guilty and we're all innocent vibe from this thread. Not true people. But let's see who else is going to pile on.

Ian made a valid point that's worth discussing, the mods to their credit have kept the thread open so people can discuss it. No one is 'piling' anything on Meat. I don't think there's any need to be melodramatic.

[Sarge]

I agree 100% with what Devil's Son and Julie said and I totally disagree with Caryl.

I actually was about to post a rather harsh comment at this point but I realized that it was rather destructive than constructive and that's why I decided to remove it and replace it by this:

Some people have very high expectations and can get very emotional about certain topics. Music is an emotional and important thing to many people and they can become even a bit selfish in this respect. That does not justify rude comments but might explain why people say something inconsiderate or offensive sometimes. I don't agree with some comments made by members of this forum, too, and I understand that one can get angry about them.

Yet you should try to understand the person's motivation and instead of calling him / her names you could say something like: "Your comment is unjust because..." That way we could avoid all those useless fights and the person will probably realize that he / she said something that wasn't right and be more considerate the next time - without feeling hurt or losing the respect for their idol.

It doesn't make sense to respond to such a post with a post that's even more offensive. That will just make things worse and make everybody feel bad. It will poison the atmosphere and people will get alienated without getting a chance to realize that they've made a mistake. Aside from that, all those fights cost a lot of precious energy that should better be used for something else.

If I didn't like Meat, I wouldn't give a shit about what he says and how he says it. But I do like him and that's why his overreactions annoy and sadden me. It's like a punch in the gut when you have to witness him saying that he doesn't care who he pisses off and if this community of dedicated fans is going to the dogs.

[Rage Against]

Ian made a valid point that's worth discussing, the mods to their credit have kept the thread open so people can discuss it. No one is 'piling' anything on Meat. I don't think there's any need to be melodramatic.

No drama in my post. Simply an observation of a lot posts focusing on what Meat Loaf needs to do. Since your not 'piling' anything on Meat, tell me what responsibility do the people involved and us as a community have to the recent events?

[daveake]

I remember back to the 'heated discussion' Meat and I had a while back. In between our unpleasant posts were a couple of people doing the equivalent of cheering on a schoolyard scrap. :twisted:

Indeed. I found that to be by far the worst thing in that thread, and the only part I felt needed moderating.

[Wario]

This is a Meat loaf fanclub. if you didn't love him and tolerate some of his aggravations you wouldn't still be here.

Lets all go and listen to your favorite Meat song and remind yourself its just him. the man is actually interacting with us.

we just need to look at stuff from his POV.

I wrote this poem:

Meat is the Man, the myth the Legend
He is the soul that bread life to this Forum
We are the users, the Loyal and True
We are the River of Love that Meat Swims In
Dont be the one that pees in it

[daveake]

I wrote this poem:

Meat is the Man, the myth the Legend
He is the soul that bread life to this Forum
We are the users, the Loyal and True
We are the River of Love that Meat Swims In
Dont be the one that pees in it

You are Baldrick and I claim my five pounds.

[AndrewG]

Meat is the Man, the myth the Legend
He is the soul that bread life to this Forum
We are the users, the Loyal and True
We are the River of Love that Meat Swims In
Dont be the one that pees in it

That really, really sucks.

[Sarge]

Wario, there is a poetry thread already, you know? (The poems over there are much better though...)

[roomster]

This is a Meat loaf fanclub. if you didn't love him and tolerate some of his aggravations you wouldn't still be here.

Lets all go and listen to your favorite Meat song and remind yourself its just him. the man is actually interacting with us.

we just need to look at stuff from his POV.


I think it would be in Meats self-interest so show some self-restraint when posting. My deep respect for him has not increased further after having witnessed the various rants on this forum.

The worst writings has often been deleted or edited out pretty soon, so the regular user probably haven't seen it all. Me neither.

[MeatGrl1]

I wrote this poem:

Meat is the Man, the myth the Legend
He is the soul that bread life to this Forum
We are the users, the Loyal and True
We are the River of Love that Meat Swims In
Dont be the one that pees in it

That really, really sucks.

Totally agree :shock: !!
It was awful !

Wario, there is a poetry thread already, you know? (The poems over there are much better though...)

He probably didn't but now he does we will probably hear more... God help us :shock: :lol: !!!

[AndyK]

Nice to know we do get something right in your eyes sometime :))

I don't think there's any need for any additional guidelines. It all boils down to speaking to people with respect, and thinking about what you post.

No mater what the subject a clumsily worded "positive" view still comes across as positive, a clumsily "worded" negative view more often than not comes across as more negative than it was intended and often that's where the problem lies. I've lost count how many times I've seen posts that say something along the lines of "I didn't mean my post to read like that let me clarify ..." and the clarification often leads to an interpretation that isn't anywhere near as negative as the original post.

The simple maxim "think before you submit a post" works so well.

[LisaT]

What also concerns me is that, if a reporter were to come across some of Meat's posts on here, what would it do for his reputation? They could have a field day with him.

[AndrewG]

What also concerns me is that, if a reporter were to come across some of Meat's posts on here, what would it do for his reputation? They could have a field day with him.

I seriously doubt most reporters, certainly the ones employed by Rupert Murdoch have enough brains to work out it is really him.

[Wario]

I seriously doubt most reporters, certainly the ones employed by Rupert Murdoch have enough brains to work out it is really him.

and plus Meat really isnt a tabloids type of target.

If this were a the PHUKFC (Paris Hilton UK Fanclub) and Fire Ball were Paris then thats a different story...

[mszee]

I seriously doubt most reporters, certainly the ones employed by Rupert Murdoch have enough brains to work out it is really him.

a) They wouldn't care to come to this forum
b) They wouldn't care. Period

[wenners]

I'm no longer a regular visitor or poster to this site, to be truthful I find a lot of the posts quite drab, I'd much rather spend my time with my ipod in my ear listening to music that brings me so much joy. But after doing one of my now more infrequent lurks I stumbled across this thread and became quite intrigued by the posts within it.

Now over the last few years I have been quite critical over the Meats musical direction I have more than once proclaimed my displeasure at the Monster is Loose Album,(probably the main reason I don’t come by as much) even had one or more post removed by the moderators in this time. But here is the thing, though this maybe a website run by fans and not an official Meat Loaf website it bares his name, it talks about his work in both a positive promotional sense and also in most part allows for criticism of his work.

Now I don't know about you but if somebody comes to my house, work or any other aspect of my life and criticises something I do I’m not going to be happy and at times I’m going to say and react in a way which can be interpreted as going to far. Why should Meat be any different to anyone of us in this aspect?

Though I do not like the musical direction Meat has taken I wholly respect his right to defend his work and in fact I admire his passion for doing so. If I criticises his work I would expect nothing less of him defending it in anyway shape or form and if he want to call me a plonker or worse for criticising his work or that offends him then so be it.

Now going back to this not being his site, true that this maybe but would you rather just post your posts and never get any kind of response from him.

And before someone says yeah but he could comment positively on some posts if he was to do that with some of the ass kissing posts written he would never have the time to perform, record and sing.

Wenners

One other thing I have been a fan of Meat Loaf since 1978 when I was 14 but this has no relevance to anything other than meaning I’m getting old

[LucyK!]

Now I don't know about you but if somebody comes to my house, work or any other aspect of my life and criticises something I do I’m not going to be happy and at times I’m going to say and react in a way which can be interpreted as going to far. Why should Meat be any different to anyone of us in this aspect?



For me though, that's the point - this isn't a place where people have turned up in a part of Meat's life and started criticising, this is a place that Meat joined by choice, the same as the rest of us. Don't get me wrong, we're (sometimes) fortunate that the person the site is dedicated to visits us here, but he voluntarily registered as a member here, if he can't cope with anything less than positive then he is under no obligation whatsoever to read it. Personally, if he's not happy with the "negativity" of some of the posts here I'd really rather he chose not to read them rather than kicking off about one negative post and ignoring the numerous positive ones.

[allrevvedup]

For me though, that's the point - this isn't a place where people have turned up in a part of Meat's life and started criticising, this is a place that Meat joined by choice, the same as the rest of us. Don't get me wrong, we're (sometimes) fortunate that the person the site is dedicated to visits us here, but he voluntarily registered as a member here, if he can't cope with anything less than positive then he is under no obligation whatsoever to read it. Personally, if he's not happy with the "negativity" of some of the posts here I'd really rather he chose not to read them rather than kicking off about one negative post and ignoring the numerous positive ones.

:up:

[Wario]

I'm no longer a regular visitor or poster to this site, to be truthful I find a lot of the posts quite drab, I'd much rather spend my time with my ipod in my ear listening to music that brings me so much joy. But after doing one of my now more infrequent lurks I stumbled across this thread and became quite intrigued by the posts within it.

Now over the last few years I have been quite critical over the Meats musical direction I have more than once proclaimed my displeasure at the Monster is Loose Album,(probably the main reason I don’t come by as much) even had one or more post removed by the moderators in this time. But here is the thing, though this maybe a website run by fans and not an official Meat Loaf website it bares his name, it talks about his work in both a positive promotional sense and also in most part allows for criticism of his work.

Now I don't know about you but if somebody comes to my house, work or any other aspect of my life and criticises something I do I’m not going to be happy and at times I’m going to say and react in a way which can be interpreted as going to far. Why should Meat be any different to anyone of us in this aspect?

Though I do not like the musical direction Meat has taken I wholly respect his right to defend his work and in fact I admire his passion for doing so. If I criticises his work I would expect nothing less of him defending it in anyway shape or form and if he want to call me a plonker or worse for criticising his work or that offends him then so be it.

Now going back to this not being his site, true that this maybe but would you rather just post your posts and never get any kind of response from him.

And before someone says yeah but he could comment positively on some posts if he was to do that with some of the ass kissing posts written he would never have the time to perform, record and sing.

Wenners

One other thing I have been a fan of Meat Loaf since 1978 when I was 14 but this has no relevance to anything other than meaning I’m getting old

Point is very good.

BTW: your username is the shit. I read it as "weeners" (as in hot dogs)

[Evil One]

Hot dogs are shit unless they're made with a proper pork sausage and accompanied by a generous portion of HP brown sauce.

[allrevvedup]

but anyway back on topic, i'm sure that food thread would welcome the last post.

[wenners]

For me though, that's the point - this isn't a place where people have turned up in a part of Meat's life and started criticising, this is a place that Meat joined by choice, the same as the rest of us. Don't get me wrong, we're (sometimes) fortunate that the person the site is dedicated to visits us here, but he voluntarily registered as a member here, if he can't cope with anything less than positive then he is under no obligation whatsoever to read it. Personally, if he's not happy with the "negativity" of some of the posts here I'd really rather he chose not to read them rather than kicking off about one negative post and ignoring the numerous positive ones.

If he couldn’t cope with receiving negative comments we all wouldn’t be here today as Bat would have never been made as it was rejected by every Tom Dick and Harry. You can't be an artist in any form of life and not be able to take criticism.

There are forums here for people to praise and criticise Meats work and he hasthe right to respond to that criticism and also the praise. Personally I find it quite refreshing that he doesn't respond to all the hero worship praise he gets on here.

If I slaughter an album or make a statement of fact about something that may have occurred or not, he has he right to say I'm talking BS and how he says that is up to him. Personally I think too many people of this world want to be mollycoddled.

Anyway is it not the case that he doesn’t respond to all negative comments because trust me I have made plenty in the past and have never had a negative response from him and yet I have received a positive message from something I once wrote.

Wenners

[duke knooby]

i agree, meat is entitled to his opinion like everyone else here, and also has the benefit of being one of the few that actually knows what happened, and can give his version of what really happened... however meat is at a disadvantage, in that he, and he alone is representing the "brand" the "charactor" the "performer" the "singer" the "actor" the "god"... whatever he is to each and everyone of us... and he's the only one here really that is selling a product, be that a cd, a show or whatever, and with marketing in mind, if nothing else, i would consider it rather unprofessional for meat to "attack" or "call out" people, posts or whatever. By all means, correct our ramblings, our stupidity etc... i love the fact you interact and answer questions and give an insight into the world of music, and its great that you are just being you... but like it or not, this is still a public platform from which we are all judged rightly or wrongly by what we have said/done.

[roomster]

For me though, that's the point - this isn't a place where people have turned up in a part of Meat's life and started criticising, this is a place that Meat joined by choice, the same as the rest of us. Don't get me wrong, we're (sometimes) fortunate that the person the site is dedicated to visits us here, but he voluntarily registered as a member here, if he can't cope with anything less than positive then he is under no obligation whatsoever to read it. Personally, if he's not happy with the "negativity" of some of the posts here I'd really rather he chose not to read them rather than kicking off about one negative post and ignoring the numerous positive ones.

Well said.

[Pudding]

This is a Meat loaf fanclub. if you didn't love him and tolerate some of his aggravations you wouldn't still be here.

I don't think anyone would argue that you love Meat Loaf, in a quite disturbing way it seems, but most people aren't you and don't need to tolerate his aggravations just to be here.

I think it would be in Meats self-interest so show some self-restraint when posting. My deep respect for him has not increased further after having witnessed the various rants on this forum.

I agree

[Wario]

I don't think anyone would argue that you love Meat Loaf, in a quite disturbing way it seems, but most people aren't you and don't need to tolerate his aggravations just to be here.

point taken

http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r149/Deadringerforlove/WarioSmiley.gif

[Pudding]

http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r149/Deadringerforlove/WarioSmiley.gif <---THAT needs to be a permanent smilie on here.

[LucyK!]

Anyway is it not the case that he doesn’t respond to all negative comments because trust me I have made plenty in the past and have never had a negative response from him and yet I have received a positive message from something I once wrote.

Wenners

I'm not saying he responds to the negative posts all the time and never to the positive ones, but unfortunately that's the case more often than not, hense this thread.

[Wario]

http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r149/Deadringerforlove/WarioSmiley.gif <---THAT needs to be a permanent smilie on here.

hahaha

http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r149/Deadringerforlove/WarioSmiley.gif

[Sarge]

I am sorry, but I have to add another post to this thread, since the threads it refers to have been closed. I don't think that this forum should be (ab)used to urge people to attack people on other websites, regardless of whether they deserve it or not, especially when it's done by someone who could easily do without that kind of "help". It's kind of sad that a grown man, a "fighter" can't deal with some girl on Facebook and needs to beg his supporters for assistance, asking them to do something that is just wrong. Instead of solving such matters himself in a considerate way, we are asked to give someone we don't even know "a nudge". This is a behavior I wouldn't have expected, I am shocked. I don't want a person I respect turn a fan forum into a mob supposed to be unleashed on people who have "negative" opinions.

Maybe this will be deleted, maybe I'll be banned - but it had to be said.

[24K]

I don't have a problem with it, just my opinion. On previous threads i have had to say what i needed to, whether i got banned or the thread got deleted.
So i understand why you have to say what you have, sometimes we just have to voice what we think, even if consequences will not be great. I said what i had to on here, it was no different to what i would have said to the persons face. A spade is a fuc,king spade, anyone who knows me really well knows that what you see is what you get. I am who i am, i like me and the people who love and care about me know its like it or lump it.

[Pudding]

I don't think that this forum should be (ab)used to urge people to attack people on other websites, regardless of whether they deserve it or not

I agree. I have a Facebook account (I wonder how many are going to try and find me ;)) and it's very easy just to delete any shit someone posts and forget about them.

[Elijah's way]

I'm not saying he responds to the negative posts all the time and never to the positive ones, but unfortunately that's the case more often than not, hense this thread.

Right you are

[mszee]

I agree. I have a Facebook account (I wonder how many are going to try and find me ;)) and it's very easy just to delete any shit someone posts and forget about them.

You seriously thought that none of us knows you have an account on facebook? Seriously?

[Monstro]

You seriously thought that none of us knows you have an account on facebook? Seriously?

LINK LINK LINK we'll make him pay lol

[mariella]

You seriously thought that none of us knows you have an account on facebook? Seriously?I think attention is the middle name in all this ...
...and who wants to give a bbg ...

[suzieq]

Well, since the inception of this thread was a cry for change.....I want to comment about recent events. It has been a pleasure to see Meat pop up on threads, joking, interacting, informing, correcting and well, having fun here. I can only hope he remains comfortable doing this when his schedule permits.

I think it shows that Meat isn't responding to just the negative. So, I give recognition to nearly a month without toys being thrown in either direction and possibly a change has happened.

[Pudding]

So, I give recognition to nearly a month without toys being thrown in either direction and possibly a change has happened.

Give Steve6 a few more days with his wacky ideas and I'm sure things will quickly change ;)

[Wario]

Give Steve6 a few more days with his wacky ideas and I'm sure things will quickly change ;)

it seems steve6 is the new me

makes me wanna light stuff on fire again.

http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r149/Deadringerforlove/WarioSmiley.gif

[Pudding]

it seems steve6 is the new me

Wario 2.0 now THAT'S scary shit :shock:

[Steve6]

I think Pudding's comment above looks rather silly to be honest. The mods deleted references to other members earlier in this thread, and still the lessons weren't learned. But I'll take it on the chin like I've been doing lately.

I never come on here to throw around wacky ideas, I'll admit I have a habit of saying things to quickly and rushing my answers, but I've always been true to myself right from the first post on this forum. As I said on a previous thread I come here to try and validate the facts I have, and there is nothing wrong with that. We have got a lot of info from Meat Loaf as regards the Bat 3 and BFG situations in recent weeks, and it's great to see answers. At least it can put the rumours to rest.

I love this site, but I do get upset with the moderators sometimes. It's very difficult to stay on topic most of the times. One recent example is the thread "is Patti is underrated" that got out of hand, and off topic because there isn't a lot you can talk about without going off topic to be fair. "Is Patti underrated" is a simple yes or no answer for a lot of people. How is it possible to stay on topic in that thread without talking about other aspects of Patti's career? I do understand why the moderators take the action they do, and I've come to accept it totally. If Meat Loaf was to visit my forum on a regular basis I'd do everything I could to make him happy and keep him coming back. So I suppose we can't be to harsh on the way this forum is run.

In my opinion Meat Loaf has a habit of overreacting to a lot of the stuff that gets written, and most of it is quiet harmless to be honest. But we can't be to judgemental because we all overract from time to time too. I just don't like seeing good posts deleted for the simple reason it won't make Meat happy or might upset him. If it's honest and fair, and written well it should be left alone. I get the feeling from posting lately that you can be outspoken so long as you write it fairly which is a great step in the right direction IMO!!!

[CarylB]

People who keep sticking their chins out tend to need to take it on the chin ;)

And if there's nothing left to say in a thread which is on topic, there's no need to hijack it .. just stop posting .. The thread you refer to became not just off-topic but pretty out of order in the repeated references to Patti's income etc. The income of both Meat and Patti is no-one else's business, just as the income of any member here is no-one else's, and in my view it makes neither sense nor courtesy to make assumptions/statements about something both unknown and personal to the individuals.

Caryl

[LucyK!]

Exactly right Caryl, of course it's hard to stay 100% true to the thread title as conversations develop and move on, but if we're using the Patti thread as an example then it was out of hand - discussing "other aspects of Patti's career", yes. Debating her personal finances, no.

I'll admit I have a habit of saying things to quickly and rushing my answers, but I've always been true to myself right from the first post on this forum

Personally I find it's the saying things quickly and rushing responses that eventually results in the deleted posts and Mods having to take action. Rushed responses more often than not end up causing controversy which people then respond to, taking threads so far off topic that the original theme is lost. As for being true to yourself, it's a good thing and something I pride myself in doing, but there's a way to be true to yourself without offending others...again, leading to a wash of deleted posts and Mods having to issue infractions left, right and centre.

[Pudding]

I never come on here to throw around wacky ideas,

:nuts:.....:lmao:

[Julie in the rv mirror]

Well, since the inception of this thread was a cry for change.....I want to comment about recent events. It has been a pleasure to see Meat pop up on threads, joking, interacting, informing, correcting and well, having fun here. I can only hope he remains comfortable doing this when his schedule permits.

I think it shows that Meat isn't responding to just the negative. So, I give recognition to nearly a month without toys being thrown in either direction and possibly a change has happened.

I agree, Suzie- I have been thinking the same thing. :up:

[Steve6]

And if there's nothing left to say in a thread which is on topic, there's no need to hijack it .. just stop posting .. The thread you refer to became not just off-topic but pretty out of order in the repeated references to Patti's income etc. The income of both Meat and Patti is no-one else's business, just as the income of any member here is no-one else's, and in my view it makes neither sense nor courtesy to make assumptions/statements about something both unknown and personal to the individuals.
Caryl

I was just posting my opinion and all I said was I'm sure they have plenty of money because they are famous, they have had a lot of success, and I'm sure they aren't earning pocket money. All of sudden people were saying I had no right to say that, and I had no proof to make such assumptions etc, and all I was doing was passing a remark. If I went to my doctor and said "You must have a lot of money doing what you do" I'm sure he'll say mind your own business and shrug it off. Level headed people won't take offence to it, and if you came to this country you would see how people are always interested in knowing what you are working at and earning. I know it may seem rude, and I'm sorry, but don't get upset about it. ;)