Censors in Bat 2 [Archive] - mlukfc.com Forums

Wario

07 Jun 2011, 06:31

Ive noticed Bat 2 has a few lines and phrases that seem odd or seem to have been censored. I guess this was to ensure it didn't get a parental advisory sticker, but tell me if you agree with some of my findings:

Anything For Love:

"sex, and drums, and rock & roll" - why wasn't it "sex, and DRUGS, and Rock & Roll"? seems like a censor to me. DRUMS is such an odd thing to put in with sex and rock & roll.

It Just Won't Quit

"Is it richer than diamonds
Or just a little cheaper than spit?" - I always felt the line should've been "cheaper than shit". I dunno if that was Jim's original line, but I think it would've had a better ring to it.

Objects

"I'll never know why she disappeared" - this line always bugged me. You go from a accident, to abuse, to a random disappearance. I always thought the song couldve been more dark if it confronted suicide. I mean the song covers child abuse, why not the whole damn package. Its probably not a censored line, but I always felt it should've been "I'll never know why she hung herself". It would've added an extra layer to an already perfect song.

Everything Louder

"I don't give a damn about my lack of educate" - I've always wondered if the F-word was used instead of "damn".

"of all the crap they're gonna put on the page" - you can tell "crap" was added later. This line obviously used to be "of all the shit they're gonna put on the page". Ashame. I think "shit" works a lot better. Its out of character in the song. What tough-ass wasted youth would use the word "crap"?

Well theres that. thought Id share my possible censored findings.

RSG

07 Jun 2011, 07:09

Interesting thread. I don't think Jim would have minded a album with Parental advisory sticker. But Meat would I think, cause I remember recalling Meat at one time not liking the idea of it. Do u suppose Fireball could give his 2 cents like in those tweeters?

Monstro

07 Jun 2011, 07:48

I think you'll find it was more down to Virgin records, vaguely remember Meat mentioning the drums/drugs line and that was changed for the label.

Bohemian

07 Jun 2011, 07:57

Yeah, cool discussion.

I can't agree that the crap mention in Everything obviously used to be sh*t. A) even if that were true, it is in no way obvious and B) phonetically I think crap works a lot better, and I see no reason to assume it was or should have been anything other than crap??

Re: Objects, you don't see I'll never know why she disappeared as her having fled and/or killed herself? I don't think it needs to be spelled out any more than it is.

That's a really interesting point you raise re: Just Won't Quit. But note that the original recording from Pandora's Box is also SPIT. Maybe a phonetic decision, didn't want the duplicate soft consonant / digraph sounds of CHeaper than SH*t ??

evil nickname

07 Jun 2011, 08:50

"I don't give a damn about my lack of educate" - I've always wondered if the F-word was used instead of "damn".

To me, 'damn' sounds better than 'fuck' in that line. The F-sound seems to break the rhythm. (Also, my lack of etiquette prevents me from not trying to get around software-imposed censoring in a thread about censoring.)

Also, re: 'disappeared' in Objects: how is not explicitly stating what's going on any less dark than making it bloody obvious?

Wario

07 Jun 2011, 09:11

I can't agree that the crap mention in Everything obviously used to be sh*t. A) even if that were true, it is in no way obvious and B) phonetically I think crap works a lot better, and I see no reason to assume it was or should have been anything other than crap??

I guess its my ear that hears the overdub of "crap". If someone would like to back me up, I don't wanna look insane lol.

Still "shit" should have been in that line because it reflects the character of the song. Its such an angry, rebellious song that the word "crap" just doesn't feel right, if you know what I mean.

Also, re: 'disappeared' in Objects: how is not explicitly stating what's going on any less dark than making it bloody obvious?

I never actually thought about a double meaning of "disappeared". It actually seems to me its a wink at the listener to read between the lines. The third verse is indeed about suicide, its just not stated out-right.

carole

07 Jun 2011, 09:59

But then again, it's got 'shove it up your arse' in Lemon. I remember when they played Anything For Love on Video Hits, which was on on Saturday & Sunday mornings, they used to bleep out 'screwing' around which was really annoying.

Carole

A Slice Of English

07 Jun 2011, 10:06

"I don't give a damn about my lack of ettiquette", NOT "educate"

Yeesh...

allrevvedup

07 Jun 2011, 12:21

Objects

"I'll never know why she disappeared" - this line always bugged me. You go from a accident, to abuse, to a random disappearance. I always thought the song couldve been more dark if it confronted suicide. I mean the song covers child abuse, why not the whole damn package. Its probably not a censored line, but I always felt it should've been "I'll never know why she hung herself". It would've added an extra layer to an already perfect song.

Yeah because that would've made it a really radio friendly song...:roll:

I think the idea of all the examples you've given that may have been tone down are examples of clever song writing more so than anything else. Some of it is tongue in cheek, but there's also a better chance of appealing to the masses with lyrics that don't refer to drugs, cursing or suicide. Which is exactly what Jim and Meat were trying to do with Bat II.

Obviously the heavy rock scene is different in that regard as songs like that tend to be darker.

CarylB

07 Jun 2011, 18:41

I think the idea of all the examples you've given that may have been tone down are examples of clever song writing more so than anything else. Some of it is tongue in cheek, but there's also a better chance of appealing to the masses with lyrics that don't refer to drugs, cursing or suicide. Which is exactly what Jim and Meat were trying to do with Bat II.

Makes perfect sense to me. I too remember Meat referring to the change from drugs to drums. I think "hanged herself" would have spoiled the rhythm, "spit" conveys worthlessness much more cleverly imo than "shit", which has different connotations .. ie awful, bad etc .. whereas "spit" doesn't carry those and fits better, just as "damn" has a much better cadence than "~~~~". I certainly can't tell that in "of all the crap they're gonna put on the page" the word crap replaces "shit" (although I can hear "etiquette" and not "educate" ;) ), and again I think the flow is better as it is on the recording.

Caryl

LucyK!

07 Jun 2011, 20:14

I agree with Mike, I think Jim in clever enough to get the message across without filling his songs with bad language and graphic "images". Thinking about it, whilst Jim's music is very dramatic and creates a very clear image, there's very little (if any) bad language, be it in Meat songs or anyone else's.

I don't think any editting would have come from Meat - he was happy to tell us he can barely fit his dick in his pants! :lol:

Evil One

07 Jun 2011, 20:18

The third verse is indeed about suicide, its just not stated out-right.
Is it indeed? The actual line in question is
I'll probably never know where she disappeared
I'm sure from that you can make a case that the girl has killed herself. It also wouldn't take a huge stretch of imagination to make a case that it's actually about his first love walking out on him, not saying why or where she's going and Meat not having the closure of knowing what really happened. That is the joy of a well written song, it can be interpreted numerous ways. Plus a song about suicide is a pretty grim prospect.

The genius of Jim is that he does not need to use foul language to get across whatever it is he wants to convey. Would All Revved Up have been any better with the line 'I'm going to ~~~~ a virgin' stuck in the middle? :shrug:

allrevvedup

07 Jun 2011, 20:25

Would All Revved Up have been any better with the line 'I'm going to ~~~~ a virgin' stuck in the middle? :shrug:

I may have been:shock:

loaferman61

07 Jun 2011, 20:25

I like that Jim writes more humorous things into his songs and to me it would cheapen his writing if he went for the easy curse word. He's more clever than that but can use them when they work in the song. When overused it loses the effect anyway.

AndyK

07 Jun 2011, 20:38

I think the idea of all the examples you've given that may have been tone down are examples of clever song writing more so than anything else.

I think Jim in clever enough to get the message across without filling his songs with bad language and graphic "images".

That is the joy of a well written song, it can be interpreted numerous ways.

The genius of Jim is that he does not need to use foul language to get across whatever it is he wants to convey.

it would cheapen his writing if he went for the easy curse word. He's more clever than that but can use them when they work in the song.

To coin a much used acronym CHSIB :))

Innuendo, implication and suggestion are used to such good effect that the images that come from Jim's songs don't need to be in your face obvious.

duke knooby

07 Jun 2011, 20:51

mr steinman is a great wordsmith :D

Dave

07 Jun 2011, 21:09

The term "cheaper than spit" is most definitely deep rooted in American Southern Culture. I know I have said this before and have heard it from people in the area where I live. It is a term that goes back to Southern/Appalachian farm life from an extended phrase "nothing is cheaper than a mother's spit" in regards to fixing up simple wounds that children would receive while working the farms or playing. I don't know about elsewhere, but there have been many times when my mom has soothed a scraped up knee or elbow by spitting on a rag to clean me up.

Wario

07 Jun 2011, 21:43

still the use of "crap" in louder is out of place some-what

jcmoorehead

08 Jun 2011, 01:03

still the use of "crap" in louder is out of place some-what

I don't think it is to be honest, it sounds perfect as it is. I think there is alot of emphasis when the word is delivered but I think thats the same as when we say things in a passionate way we'll also put more emphasis on certain words.

Regarding the words in songs debate, being honest it doesn't bother me too much and sometimes you have to use bad language, imagary to get your message across but it really depends on the subject matter and how it is put in there. Bad language like graphic imagary is valid to be used, it's a part of our lives but when it comes to music you have to be careful and make sure it fits the song as opposed to just having it there for the sake of being rebellious or showing attitude.

I have myself though often wondered about the sex, drums & rock and roll line though and wondered why it said drums. I did just attribute it to being clever wordplay by Jim/Meat or if it might have been changed.

RSG

08 Jun 2011, 05:34

I think drums was left intentional by Jim. Cause drums always had to do with something feverish. His songs got a pulse. That line I've wondered some, but indeed its clever.

MeatGrl1

15 Jun 2011, 03:41

Wario

15 Jun 2011, 04:07

And the point of this thread is what exactly :shrug: ?!

Why do we need to over analize things and tear them apart, I think everyone here gets it bar the individual who started this thread :wtf: :nuts: !!

quite the contrary, everyone who replied to this thread gave interesting points. I dare say this was one of my better threads compared to my "what animal would you not mind peeing on you" poll or of the like.

and yes we do need to over analyze everything. If we didnt, wed have no forum

lorenzoduke

15 Jun 2011, 09:34

'Drums' should have been 'drugs', that I'd agree with, if only because 'and rock n' roll' makes the singling out of drums seem odd and redundant.

'Spit' seems better to me, (Meat literally spits the word out too, it gets across the disdain really well) as does 'give a damn'. 'Give a ~~~~' wouldn't scan right with the hard k right before etiQUette.

'Hanged herself' would have been terrible in my view, just too blunt and at odds with the rest of the song. I'd have just changed 'I'll never know where she disappeared' to 'I'll never know why she disappeared', since this establishes that there must have been a motive for her 'choosing to go' rather than being 'taken away'.

jcmoorehead

15 Jun 2011, 12:43

And the point of this thread is what exactly :shrug: ?!

Why do we need to over analize things and tear them apart, I think everyone here gets it bar the individual who started this thread :wtf: :nuts: !!

Because this is what fans of an artist/film/tvshow/book do, they look at what is there and they analyse it to see and understand why something might be the way it is or to look for a hidden meaning. It's not that it's tearing it apart it's just harmless discussion on whether or not something was intentional or not.

And if you think this is bad you should see what Neon Genesis Evangelion or Dream Theater fans are like for analysing. (I belong to both fanbases by the way). IN fact Dream Theater have actually hidden things in their songs for the fans to analyse, Octavarium was full of references to the 5/8 time signature and other references to the musical scale. Within another song, and this took ages for someone to decipher they had actually hidden a message in morse code.

Sometimes things are put there for the fans to analyse.

tribrats

15 Jun 2011, 15:20

I'm glad they went with "Drums". I love the line like that. I have a great dislike for drugs and believe it or not, that one word change could have affected my view of the song.

The Flying Mouse

15 Jun 2011, 15:46

lorenzoduke

15 Jun 2011, 15:49

:twisted: Sex and drums and rock and roll sounds a lot better to me, and it's the clever play on words Jim is known for.

On the whole issue of censorship, i've already said (more than once) i'm not too keen on Meat singing swear words (apart from "ass" in Lemon if you want to count it) as he's not that kind of entertainment to me.

Based on his live shows, he is exactly that 'kind of entertainment'...unless you don't mind him saying or shouting swear words, just singing them, which seems an oddly specific preference.

I'm not saying I can't sort-of understand where you're coming from, but we are talking about the odd word here and there in songs, not gangsta rap levels of obscenity on every track.

The Flying Mouse

15 Jun 2011, 16:49

unless you don't mind him saying or shouting swear words, just singing them, which seems an oddly specific preference.

:twisted: That is, 100%, exactly, what I mean.
All the *f*ck you"'s in Paradise and such, I have no problem with at all.
Swearing in between songs, not a problem (and most of the time it's bloody funny :lol: )

Trying to explain it, I think it's because as a sung lyric (in anything but a blatant comedy song), a swear word has (IMHO) no theatrical merit.

Again, it's not that i'm uptight about swearing.I swear too much myself at times :oops: , and I think Kevin Bloody Wison and Stephen Lynch are funny as hell (and hell is where i'm going for laughing at some of Stephen Lynch's songs lol) but I just don't like a sung swear from Meat.

Weird perhaps, but there you have it :shrug:

A Slice Of English

15 Jun 2011, 19:42

:twisted: That is, 100%, exactly, what I mean.
All the *f*ck you"'s in Paradise and such, I have no problem with at all.
Swearing in between songs, not a problem (and most of the time it's bloody funny :lol: )

Trying to explain it, I think it's because as a sung lyric (in anything but a blatant comedy song), a swear word has (IMHO) no theatrical merit.

Again, it's not that i'm uptight about swearing.I swear too much myself at times :oops: , and I think Kevin Bloody Wison and Stephen Lynch are funny as hell (and hell is where i'm going for laughing at some of Stephen Lynch's songs lol) but I just don't like a sung swear from Meat.

Weird perhaps, but there you have it :shrug:
I'm with you on that one.

Evil One

15 Jun 2011, 23:38

I'm with you on that one.
So am I. :up:

Wario

16 Jun 2011, 00:42

Still, for a song like louder, shi wouldve been more in character then "crap"

A Slice Of English

16 Jun 2011, 06:16

Dude, you are totally on your own with that it would seem.

Dave

16 Jun 2011, 10:20

Would it also be safe to say the word choice could be reflective of the time of the album release? Things were different back then.

AndyK

16 Jun 2011, 11:15

Would it also be safe to say the word choice could be reflective of the time of the album release? Things were different back then.

Dave, you make it sound like it was almost 20 years ago ;-)

Scary actually that more time has passed since the release of Bat II than had passed between the release of Bat and Bat II :shock: