A possible reason why Readem and Weep is never played live....

[Wario]

Apparently "Also someone asked him about Read 'Em and Weep, and he said that the song was ruined for him because Barry Manilow covered it. But he did attempt to sing it, and at one point (the band did not stop playing) he turned around to Kas and said..."I don't know what to do"...missed a few lines and then continued."

weird. Guess if barry never covered it, itd be in the set?

http://www.kasiminfo.com/Tours/Meat/StoryTellers/ST1229.html

[RSG]

ReadEm to me is one of the highlights from Dead Ringer.

[Evil Ernie]

IMO it's petty that he never really sang it live.

I'm no BM fan, but his version isn't horrible. The DR version is obviously far better even with the screwed up voice, but I can't see how 1 cover could ruin the entire song. Even if that version was more successful.

I can understand that he wants to be known the singing that song, but he has covered a handful of tracks that were far more successful than Manilows REAW and he was unlikely to top.

[Julie in the rv mirror]

I'm no BM fan, but his version isn't horrible.

Yes, it is, IMO; it's the very definition of "schmaltzy". I don't generally dislike Manilow, either.

The first time I heard it, I thought, "I wonder if Steinman knows what Manilow did to his song?" :doh: (I didn't know at that time that Steinman produced it)

[Evil One]

A) Meat did sing it live, many times during the early '80s.
B) Manilow's version is shite.
C) Meat's version isn't shite but is in dire need of remastering.
D) I think the reason it isn't played live is simply that Two Out Of Three, Heaven Can Wait and Objects get a better reaction from the audience than Read 'Em And Weep would. Meat can only fit so many songs into a show, so it's either a ballad from the album of the moment or one of those three songs.

[chairboys]

D) I think the reason it isn't played live is simply that Two Out Of Three, Heaven Can Wait and Objects get a better reaction from the audience than Read 'Em And Weep would. Meat can only fit so many songs into a show, so it's either a ballad from the album of the moment or one of those three songs.

I wonder if he will play Another Day then?
But, I do believe Read 'Em would be well received, especially if tells the audience that Barry screwed up and his version is a millions times better.

[loaferman61]

That live performance that was on youtube was amazing. I think people don't give Meat enough credit for his voice back then. To me the album where his voice sounds the least like him is "Bat" with the rumored sped up vocals probably contributing to that.

[loaferman61]

A) Meat did sing it live, many times during the early '80s.
B) Manilow's version is shite.
C) Meat's version isn't shite but is in dire need of remastering.
D) I think the reason it isn't played live is simply that Two Out Of Three, Heaven Can Wait and Objects get a better reaction from the audience than Read 'Em And Weep would. Meat can only fit so many songs into a show, so it's either a ballad from the album of the moment or one of those three songs.

I don't envy Meat having to make a set-list. Trying to get the right mix of hits, rockers and ballads along with a couple of new songs has to be tough. If it were me feeling like I could never drop "Paradise" would drive me mad. I'd at least shorten it, a couple of shortened for broadcast performances I have seen were more entertaining for me. I know it has to be rough to get in all the songs that a lot of the audience love.

[Paul Richardson]

To me the album where his voice sounds the least like him is "Bat" with the rumored sped up vocals probably contributing to that.

But he did lose his voice completely after Bat and the damage probably changed his voice for good ? Not necessarily for the worse as I think some of the late 80s / early 90s live performances were the best of is career...

[Paul Richardson]

B) Manilow's version is shite.


The arrangement / production is just not at all suited to a Steinman song, the most amazing thing is however, that arrangement / production was actually by Steinman...:shock:

[Evil Ernie]

That live performance that was on youtube was amazing. I think people don't give Meat enough credit for his voice back then. To me the album where his voice sounds the least like him is "Bat" with the rumored sped up vocals probably contributing to that.

IMO, his voice almost sounded like that higher pitch on BOH at certain times during the 80's.

His voice was incredible during this period. It's a shame that most of what I consider to be his vocal prime was spent in relative obscurity compared to periods before and after.

Remember that the doctors considered his vocal problems to be purely psychological. The fact is that most male singers should be in their prime from ages 35-45, which Meat was. So it's good that he got over whatever it was that was ailing him.

Actually let's face it. The fact that we ever heard from him again and that he eventually made it to the top again is a testament to his incredible mental endurance.

With that said, I wish that he would get over his mental thing of BM covering REAW. Use that mental might Meat! ;)

Let's hope he never hears Todd Rundgren's version of TOOTAB. :oops:

[Evil Ernie]

The arrangement / production is just not at all suited to a Steinman song, the most amazing thing is however, that arrangement / production was actually by Steinman...:shock:

The arrangement isn't extremely different from the DR version, just with bland vocals.

The production does suck though.

[loaferman61]

The arrangement isn't extremely different from the DR version, just with bland vocals.

The production does suck though.

I can actually take my "fan goggles" off here and say that Meat's version is packed with emotion while Manilow's is nauseatingly bland and void of any emotion. I'm surprised Jim did not wring some emotion out him, but that version has zero feeling, just "cold".

[loaferman61]

IMO, his voice almost sounded like that higher pitch on BOH at certain times during the 80's.

His voice was incredible during this period. It's a shame that most of what I consider to be his vocal prime was spent in relative obscurity compared to periods before and after.

Remember that the doctors considered his vocal problems to be purely psychological. The fact is that most male singers should be in their prime from ages 35-45, which Meat was. So it's good that he got over whatever it was that was ailing him.

Actually let's face it. The fact that we ever heard from him again and that he eventually made it to the top again is a testament to his incredible mental endurance.

With that said, I wish that he would get over his mental thing of BM covering REAW. Use that mental might Meat! ;)

Let's hope he never hears Todd Rundgren's version of TOOTAB. :oops:
Meat's voice at the time was good just above a whisper or full on operatic high parts the in between was sometimes difficult for him. I like the operatic voice even though he had to spend most of some songs in that range which had to be tough. I agree that from '85-'93 his voice was perfection, unfortunately until '93 he was in relative obscurity from the mainstream.

[Evil Ernie]

I heard that DR was recorded almost 'line by line'...

[RSG]

I heard this too. I think its something he's always done.

[Wario]

in a recent interview hes said he likes to record whole takes to keep the song real or something.

[RSG]

In another interview he has said take away razor blades outta studios. Cause he never in time and never in tune. He likes to record a line or little more to get the the right emotion out of a lyric cause he's a actor and not a singer. Handbasket I hear from the board sounds more live than previous. Also Bat 2 produced by Jim there was said to be a lot of vocal takes on anything for love. I hear that cause his voice sounds real strong in live shows just before and just after. Whereas '93 studio work is perfected, every 'i' and every 't.' ;)

[RSG]

Although I'm sure there are exceptions. :) I never once attended a studio where he works ;) But I recall a older video on a meat fan site where he has said that Forever Young was one take.

[Evil Ernie]

Take whatever Meat says with a grain of salt. He contradicts himself a lot.

Regardless, recording an album one line at a time is extremely inefficient. Would make any producer want to kill him...

[TheDoode]

Take whatever Meat says with a grain of salt. He contradicts himself a lot.

Regardless, recording an album one line at a time is extremely inefficient. Would make any producer want to kill him...

Funnily enough, that's how 99.9% of the industry works. Haven't seen any celebrity deaths by irrate producers yet though ... :??:

[loaferman61]

in a recent interview hes said he likes to record whole takes to keep the song real or something.
I think he said he recorded 9 songs in 10 days for HIAHB.

[Evil Ernie]

Funnily enough, that's how 99.9% of the industry works. Haven't seen any celebrity deaths by irrate producers yet though ... :??:

I don't mean that he records the song in one take.

And no. You are completely wrong. 99% of albums are not recorded one line at a time. I don't know where you pulled that figure from.

[Sue K]

And no. You are completely wrong. 99% of albums are not recorded one line at a time. I don't know where you pulled that figure from.

Are we talking "I would do anything for love" ... stop ... break ... record ... "I would do anything for love" ... stop ... break ... record ... etc, just for farfetched example ? Is that how recordings are done today ??? ...

[RSG]

I'm sure it varies for every artist.

[Evil Ernie]

Are we talking "I would do anything for love" ... stop ... break ... record ... "I would do anything for love" ... stop ... break ... record ... etc, just for farfetched example ? Is that how recordings are done today ??? ...

I believe that's how they said that that DR was recorded, due to the screwed up voice. Listening to it, I can see that.

One line at a time would be ridiculous and unnecessary for most recording artists. Not to mention the lack of flow of the lyrics. Not saying that nobody does that, but certainly not in 90%.

Most albums would be recorded in more of a live format due to the resources that most artists have. At the most it may be a verse or a chorus at a time. Typically Drums/Bass on one track and build from there.

[TheDoode]

I don't mean that he records the song in one take.

And no. You are completely wrong. 99% of albums are not recorded one line at a time. I don't know where you pulled that figure from.

No, no I'm not. It's a not a figure, I didn't go onto wikipedia and research it. A friend of mine is the vocalist for one of Germany's top metal bands, and as such he gets to record with a whole load of people from all different walks of the industry. The only reason I know this stuff is because when he wanted to record his first album as a full band set up, his original producer was like "people don't record that way anymore".

[Evil Ernie]

No, no I'm not. It's a not a figure, I didn't go onto wikipedia and research it. A friend of mine is the vocalist for one of Germany's top metal bands, and as such he gets to record with a whole load of people from all different walks of the industry. The only reason I know this stuff is because when he wanted to record his first album as a full band set up, his original producer was like "people don't record that way anymore".

That's cool. Just because they don't do a full band setup doesn't mean that they record the vocal tracks one line at a time.

And who cares what that producer says? If he wants to record as a full band setup than that's the way that it should be. And didn't ML say that he recorded HiAH in less than two weeks?

Btw, you make it sound like you're some kind of insider.

[TheDoode]

That's not it works sadly, you're pretty much dictated to and at the mercy of your producer. Even artists as big and successful as Meat Loaf. Most mainstream/pop artists (Mariah Carey is a notorious example) record a line at a time, sometimes even a single lyric or note gets concentrated on for hours of takes, just to get it perfect (and they wonder why it doesn't sound that good live...). I'm not an insider man, just got some good friends :cool:

Meat did record HIAB in a matter of weeks, but he has his own studio and Paul was producing, so, no external pressure. It's taken a long time to come around, but rock bands are starting to get their way with recording in a relatively 'almost live' setup again. But here's a thought, as much as 35 years ago Van Halen recorded the vocals for their first album ... one line at a time.

[Sue K]

But here's a thought, as much as 35 years ago Van Halen recorded the vocals for their first album ... one line at a time.

Would "Jump" have been on that album ? I don't have the lyrics memorized and am just thinking of the tune in general and wondering, specifically, how the devil you get madman David Lee to record a line at a time ??? ... :shock: ... lol ... Making me think... how can you either build up momentum... or stay in the moment if you record a line at a time ... particularly for a rockin' song ? ... Perhaps the entire song is recorded over and over... and the best of the lines selected and spliced together ? I know nothing of this stuff but am curious ... Thanks !

[TheDoode]

Ah, Jump was on their 1984 release "1984". Have you seen the Jennifer Hudson video where she's recording lines with Meat from Bat III? It's on youtube and there's probably even a link on here somewhere (actually think I posted it myself at one point). They're punching in every few lines, maybe a verse etc. as they go along, making sure the notes are right and the performance is as good as it gets. It's a pretty common thing to do :)

[Sue K]

Ah, Jump was on their 1984 release "1984". Have you seen the Jennifer Hudson video where she's recording lines with Meat from Bat III? It's on youtube and there's probably even a link on here somewhere (actually think I posted it myself at one point). They're punching in every few lines, maybe a verse etc. as they go along, making sure the notes are right and the performance is as good as it gets. It's a pretty common thing to do :)

I did see that clip of Meat and JH ... but it was long ago... I'll have to take another look to get the idea in my head of that line by line way of recording. Thanks for the reply !

[Evil Ernie]

That's not it works sadly, you're pretty much dictated to and at the mercy of your producer. Even artists as big and successful as Meat Loaf. Most mainstream/pop artists (Mariah Carey is a notorious example) record a line at a time, sometimes even a single lyric or note gets concentrated on for hours of takes, just to get it perfect (and they wonder why it doesn't sound that good live...). I'm not an insider man, just got some good friends :cool:

Meat did record HIAB in a matter of weeks, but he has his own studio and Paul was producing, so, no external pressure. It's taken a long time to come around, but rock bands are starting to get their way with recording in a relatively 'almost live' setup again. But here's a thought, as much as 35 years ago Van Halen recorded the vocals for their first album ... one line at a time.

I can't believe you used the first van Halen album as an example. It's been widely known that the first van Halen albums were recorded live in the studio.

Try again. Actually don't.

[AndyK]

Actually don't.

Why not both of you drop it now? Neither are going to agree and you'll end up going backwards and forwards forever.

[TheDoode]

I can't believe you used the first van Halen album as an example. It's been widely known that the first van Halen albums were recorded live in the studio.

Try again. Actually don't.

Yeah, apart from the vocals, which were recorded a line at a time.

Andy, point taken, this should probably be an entirely different thread in a completely different topic. If Evil Ernie wants to discuss it further, feel free to PM me man.

[jcmoorehead]

Are we talking "I would do anything for love" ... stop ... break ... record ... "I would do anything for love" ... stop ... break ... record ... etc, just for farfetched example ? Is that how recordings are done today ??? ...

Varies from artist to artist and what works for them, it likely isn't quite as bad as literally doing a line and then stopping and then doing the next line but it might be done a few lines or a verse at a time.

[Meat Loaf_fan]

ReadEm to me is one of the highlights from Dead Ringer.

I agree. But ... it's hard for me to decide if this is better than "I'm Gonna Love Her For Both Of Us". Tough choice!