Patti Russo

[Monstro]

Patti's saying that she's heading back to the UK and to "watch this space".

Really hope it's more of what she gave us on her tour, brilliant shows!!!!

[unbekannt]

We've already found some dates on https://www.facebook.com/groups/pattirussofans/, but nothing official and not confirmed yet. Just in case you're wondering where and when it COULD be… ;)

[unbekannt]

One of the dates is already on sale. But remember… nothing is confirmed yet.
https://www.theapex.co.uk/whats-on/event/1609/patti-russo

[unbekannt]

Confirmed!
https://twitter.com/Patti_Russo/status/557549199584419840

[Elijah's way]

How does one "tour" when they've never released a album?

[duke knooby]

Since when did a performer have to release an album to be allowed to tour?

I'm sure Patti has more than enough material to entertain her audiences, and for all we know, she may have another ep to release.

I think the pledgemusic platform would be ideal for Patti if she did wish to put an album out.

Great news that she's planning to come over for some shows

[CarylB]

A tour is a journey to fulfill a round of engagements in several places .. nothing says it has to have an album to back it up. Meat toured his early band without making a record .. before bands were manufactured by Cowell and the like it's how many groups built a reputation, got noticed and were asked to make a record.

[Julie in the rv mirror]

.. before bands were manufactured by Cowell and the like it's how many groups built a reputation, got noticed and were asked to make a record.
Caryl raises an excellent point; in fact, it was probably the norm.

[LucyK!]

Route Of Kings, Hair Of The Dog, Casa De Carne, Last At Bat.

[duke knooby]

I don't rem route of kings, when was it?

[LucyK!]

2002...Hyde Park, Leeds...and I forget the rest!

[CarylB]

I don't rem route of kings, when was it?

The promoters billed it Route of Kings, which covered a number of artists playing outdoor venues that summer .. Meat called it Havin' Fun ;) Those Lucy mentioned plus Cardiff, Dublin, Liverpool?

Meat's often played tours just to play and entertain without having an album specifically to promote. I took Elijahs Way's comment to refer to the fact Patti had never released a full album as such, and since 78 Meat has obviously always had a catalogue of album songs he can showcase .. but nonetheless there is nothing to suggest that any artist needs to have ever released an album to do a tour .. and time was when most hadn't. It remains still a way to build and grow a following, and to reach one's fanbase and build this by getting out there and doing what one does, whether one is a rock singer, a group or a musician.

[Dave]

How does one "tour" when they've never released a album?

I have gone on two "tours" and have never recorded an album, nor do I have any serious plans to.

[LucyK!]

The promoters billed it Route of Kings, which covered a number of artists playing outdoor venues that summer .. Meat called it Havin' Fun ;) Those Lucy mentioned plus Cardiff, Dublin, Liverpool?


That's driven me mental all day! I typed Just Havin' Fun, then changed it, then changed it back...I remembered they wrote Route Of Kings on the book but if those shows weren't Just Havin' Fun I couldn't work out which were!

[duke knooby]

that explains why i missed it... he didn't do that tour over here

[Dick]

Just havin fun in Dublin was my first Meat gig. I remember Patti opening as she did...fabulously. So yea, just a tuppence for the pot.

[Gez]

2002...Hyde Park, Leeds...and I forget the rest!

OMG thats was 2002............:shock:........great gig :D

[Gez]

Who's all going to Leeds..........feel I need a Patti-Hit :)

[Sebastian.]

Who's all going to Leeds..........feel I need a Patti-Hit :)

Will be doing it, shall book it off at work tomorrow.

[Sebastian.]

Leeds all booked. We need more MLUKFC troops.

[Cherry.Loaf]

I really wanna go will have words with the other half later

[emma811981]

I'm booked for leeds :D

[Gez]

Anyone booked Hotels or recommend one?

[Sebastian.]

Anyone booked Hotels or recommend one?

I just booked the ibis budget in Leeds, normally pretty decent.

[christa]

Anyone going to Milton Keynes on April 8th?
My2 boys and I have booked and as its school holidays we will be travelling doen early and having a meal somewhere nearby.

[unbekannt]

I have 1 ticket for Patti at The Apex, Bury St Edmunds on April 11th for sale. Front row center (seat A8 ). £20.

[Monstro]

I have 1 ticket for Patti at The Apex, Bury St Edmunds on April 11th for sale. Front row center (seat A8 ). £20.

Yes please, happily take this off your hands!!!!!

[unbekannt]

Sold to Monstro! :metal:

[unbekannt]

Hi there! Due to changes of plans, I have one more ticket for sale:
Patti at The Stables​, Milton Keynes, on April 8th. Front row, seat 10.
£20 – which is less than the original price. No fees, no charges. ;-)

https://dl-web.dropbox.com/get/Kamera-Uploads/mk_ticket.jpg?_subject_uid=257464082&w=AAATejKYcu2qUoWL4r5Wai1LoQbEbsfw0gcsbZs9ufMpMw

[AndrewG]

Hi there! Due to changes of plans, I have one more ticket for sale:
Patti at The Stables​, Milton Keynes, on April 8th. Front row, seat 10.
£20 – which is less than the original price. No fees, no charges. ;-)

https://dl-web.dropbox.com/get/Kamera-Uploads/mk_ticket.jpg?_subject_uid=257464082&w=AAATejKYcu2qUoWL4r5Wai1LoQbEbsfw0gcsbZs9ufMpMw

At this rate you'll be selling more tickets than Patti herself, Jesus and God combined for these shows. :devil:

[unbekannt]

£15
Anyone?!

[knockknock1997]

Who's going to milton keynes?

[unbekannt]

I still have a ticket for Milton Keynes for sale… front row! Now only £12!

[Guy]

2 tix for Patti tomorrow. Front row.
Free. Subject to my choice of beer you will buy me at the bar.
;0)

[ShelbyLee]

Great performance!

e3faLUN977A

[Smithie]

Did anyone attend these shows? Any reviews and setlists?

[lorenzoduke]

Anyone going to Leeds?

[Sebastian.]

Anyone going to Leeds?

Myself, Guy, Gez, and team King will be there!

[ShelbyLee]

Did anyone attend these shows? Any reviews and setlists?



There are quite a few videos of the shows online: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_sort=video_date_uploaded&search_query=patti+russo




wWmQwCBLP88

[Sebastian.]

My little review....

So the day started for me not too well, after hitting Lincoln until the early hours I was very hungover and after little sleep it was time to travel to Leeds, no matter though it was gig day, crack on troops. After arriving in Leeds, trecking along a dual carriage way whilst singing Goldfinger, and having a cheeky Nando's with the lads + Lucy it was time to see Ms. Russo.

The support act came on first, entitled "Fay and Latta", very good acoustic band with a great catalogue of their own songs and a few covers, a great start to what was about to come.

Then came the main event, the tour-de-force herself... Ms. Patti Russo. Staright into Bible and a Beer woth a voice as powerful as 2 Typhoon's taling off to intercept Russian aircraft (although much better for a hungover Sebastian). A great young band behind her with our own Rick Henry on the drums. She just kept coming at us with songs such as: "Here we are, One Door, don't let them put out the flame, Alabama Shakes Hold On, Madaline and a few more"' an amazing performance and what a voice, if you haven't seen her get out and see her when she comes back!

After the show she came out and greeted us all, had picutres and signed autographs, and thanked us for coming out, a couple of us lucky fans rven got a kiss.

Eventually it was time to say goodbye to everyone again, and myself amd Guy had a train to catch, that being the Jagertrain, which eventually got us to our hotel at 5AM!

Cracking night, troops. Until next time!

[Tina.K.]

A blog from Patti. She must have been through a rough period, the last few years. Glad she's doing okay now.

http://patti-rocks.com/god-it-again-by-patti-russo/

[ThatWriterGuy]

"Patti is quite a talented writer, she should write a b --" and then I got the end of the post and realised that, "oh, she is."

Quite a sad read in a way, as she was (and is) obviously going through a horrendous and debilitating time. Though it's quite dispiriting to realise that, through the entire post, the person she's really talking about is Meat. Still, at least it seems to be acting as some kind of a therapy for her. Maybe afterwards she'll be able to leave all of this in the past and move on. I hope so, and she has my best wishes (as does Meat) :cool:

[ashkent7]

"Patti is quite a talented writer, she should write a b --" and then I got the end of the post and realised that, "oh, she is."

Quite a sad read in a way, as she was (and is) obviously going through a horrendous and debilitating time. Though it's quite dispiriting to realise that, through the entire post, the person she's really talking about is Meat. Still, at least it seems to be acting as some kind of a therapy for her. Maybe afterwards she'll be able to leave all of this in the past and move on. I hope so, and she has my best wishes (as does Meat) :cool:

I remember seeing the initial fallout of "that email", and remember feeling for them both from different sides of the story. I think possibly the fact it came so soon after Meat's comments on the DVD about how he had been forced to push Patti out once and wouldn't be allowing it happen again made a lot of people instantly side with Patti. There are always reasons, and like I say I genuinely felt bad for both of them. Life isn't a rehearsal and you just have to be ready to improv when it doesn't go as planned. I think they have both managed to do that in one way or another. But fully agree on best wishes for both.

[CarylB]

As you say, there are always reasons (not ours to know, and Meat has always kept professional counsel as to his). I, too, was sad for both of them, but again as you have said, life isn't a rehearsal and you just have to be ready to deal with it when it doesn't go as planned.

I agree it does read as therapy. I've always wished Patti success, and hope she doesn't allow this to continually cloud her future. Is therapy better done in public? Personally I don't think so :( It tends not to get you attention of the kind that you really need to move forward, but rather the sympathy that can keep you stuck where you are. I really hope she can move on, because she has such talent ..

[anotherday]

When the NLE lost Patti, for some, it was like losing a family member. She had been there for so long, it just didn't make sense as to why she was suddenly gone and many lashed out at Meat for "his" decision.

I always felt terrible for both of them, and had the pleasure of seeing the last US tour she did with him. (It was right after I joined here, actually).

It makes me sad to realize that who she is talking about in that post is Meat...Its hard to imagine him being that way. But I hope that this isn't an attempt to "get back" at him after he has hung up his singing career microphone.

IDK...I just want the best for BOTH of them.

[Adje]

A blog from Patti. She must have been through a rough period, the last few years. Glad she's doing okay now.

http://patti-rocks.com/god-it-again-by-patti-russo/

I think it's good she got it off her chest now. :cool:

[CarylB]

It makes me sad to realize that who she is talking about in that post is Meat...Its hard to imagine him being that way.

Then don't even try would be my advice, because he's not :-)

[Danny L]

I'd love to hear Meats side of the story. I know a Meat Loaf show is a Meat Loaf show but it seems wrong without Patti.

I love Ellen and Karla but I miss her

[roomster]

Then don't even try would be my advice, because he's not :-)

How can you be so sure about that?

I have seen so much strange/harsh/rude postings on this site from the man himself (posts which was very quickly modified or removed by the mods) that I can say that I sadly have no trouble believing the story told on Pattis blog...

[CarylB]

That's your prerogative (though it seems based largely on passionate/angry responses to harsh criticism or rudeness. He also posts kindly, and graciously too). I have never heard anyone who works with Meat, from actors/directors to band members, crew, even drivers and venue staff say anything but how kind, decent, unassuming, honest he is to work with .. save 3 people he let go.

I am sure. What you believe is your choice. I don't challenge it, nor question it. But mine is completely different.

A nice thread to start up again the day before his birthday

[nightinr]

Hopefully Patti can work through a traumatic spell. It must be horrible to be sacked by email regardless of the circumstances.

Patti will always have a huge place in my memories of Meat's live shows...truly incredible vocals and what a performer!

All the best Patti x

[Evil Ernie]

That's your prerogative (though it seems based largely on passionate/angry responses to harsh criticism or rudeness. He also posts kindly, and graciously too). I have never heard anyone who works with Meat, from actors/directors to band members, crew, even drivers and venue staff say anything but how kind, decent, unassuming, honest he is to work with .. save 3 people he let go.

I am sure. What you believe is your choice. I don't challenge it, nor question it. But mine is completely different.

A nice thread to start up again the day before his birthday

This thread was started a long time ago.

How is this for a theory: ML is a great guy most of the time, but sometimes he's a jerk. Sounds like most people actually. I'm sure you don't believe that he's always an angel...

Nothing that Patti says is surprising or unrealistic. I've been a boss to many people over the years, most of whom I liked at some point. Some of them needed to be let go, and even though I think that it was the right decision in all cases I'm sure that they see things differently

I'm also a fairly nice guy most of the time, but sometimes I am a jerk. At times I will recognize this and apologize, other times I will not.

Maybe it was as simple as he didn't want to continue paying her. I'm sure that she probably made more than other members of the NLE.

IMO this was probably the best thing for her in the long run. She probably only has a few performing years left in her and she's been stagnant as the backup singer for ML. She should have left to be on her own years ago.

Plus, she was disrespected a lot in her time. She wasn't allowed to be in the ILFYATTT video and duets she should have been performing were given to mediocre other singers in an attempt to boost their own career. I can understand Jennifer Hudson to a point, but I don't get many of the others.

[CarylB]

This thread was started a long time ago.

I said start up again

How is this for a theory: ML is a great guy most of the time, but sometimes he's a jerk. Sounds like most people actually. I'm sure you don't believe that he's always an angel...

Of course he's not perfect, and is the first to admit this, and to apologise when he falls (sometimes when it's not really his failing, because he's a nice guy who doesn't like to be at odds with people). But this is not a theory I agree with regarding this situation. Again, your prerogative, but as you quoted me I will say I don't agree. I also have great respect for Meat's refusal to comment publicly on the reasons, despite many attempts by fans here to suggest many, usually critical of him. A mark of his professionalism imo.

[Fire Ball]

IGOT NEWS FOR YOU PATTI WAS NEVER disrespected .
This thread was started a long time ago.

How is this for a theory: ML is a great guy most of the time, but sometimes he's a jerk. Sounds like most people actually. I'm sure you don't believe that he's always an angel...

Nothing that Patti says is surprising or unrealistic. I've been a boss to many people over the years, most of whom I liked at some point. Some of them needed to be let go, and even though I think that it was the right decision in all cases I'm sure that they see things differently

I'm also a fairly nice guy most of the time, but sometimes I am a jerk. At times I will recognize this and apologize, other times I will not.

Maybe it was as simple as he didn't want to continue paying her. I'm sure that she probably made more than other members of the NLE.

IMO this was probably the best thing for her in the long run. She probably only has a few performing years left in her and she's been stagnant as the backup singer for ML. She should have left to be on her own years ago.

Plus, she was disrespected a lot in her time. She wasn't allowed to be in the ILFYATTT video and duets she should have been performing were given to mediocre other singers in an attempt to boost their own career. I can understand Jennifer Hudson to a point, but I don't get many of the others.

[anotherday]

IGOT NEWS FOR YOU PATTI WAS NEVER disrespected .

Love you.
Thank you.

[nightinr]

Although Braver was a treat for fans it did lack Patti's passion that flowed from her vocals. I would love to have seen her on Loving you is a dirty job and Going all the way.

I just find the whole situation very sad for both Meat and Patti.

[eltmatt]

Which 3 people? What are Meat's reasons for letting her go via email, I guess there is rumour she did something to deserve this?

[CarylB]

Oh give it a rest! Meat has repeatedly said she was not simply let go by email, and has made it clear he will not discuss or comment on it further, save to say she was not "disrespected".

His professionalism leaves him in a firing line whenever someone brings this up again, whether it's based on rumour, speculation or assumptions/interpretations of words Patti puts on-line.

This is the fansite dedicated to Meat .. he deserves more respect.

It's in the past for a long time now. That's where it should stay. Meat knows this and honours it. So should his fans on his fanclub forum imo

[nightinr]

Patti played a crucial role in Meat's success for over 20 years. Her live performances often kept the show together. To suggest we shouldn't talk about her on this forum is strange to say the least.

It's like saying we shouldn't talk about Steinman when Meat Loaf isn't working with him.

In my view Patti helped make Meat great again and we should be eternally grateful.

[CarylB]

Patti played a crucial role in Meat's success for over 20 years. Her live performances often kept the show together. To suggest we shouldn't talk about her on this forum is strange to say the least.

It's like saying we shouldn't talk about Steinman when Meat Loaf isn't working with him.

I did NOT say that, and you well know it I suspect. I have never, ever suggested people should not talk about Patti or her contribution, so please do not even TRY to suggest that, let alone say it.

I said to continually speculate about the reasons for her leaving, which are so often based on assumptions made which are negative towards Meat is IN MY VIEW disrespectful to him. To seek rumours on which to base further speculation is also disrespectful in my view.

In my view Patti helped make Meat great again and we should be eternally grateful.

I do not consider Meat needed to be "made great again", however I believe Patti made an enormous contribution to the shows during her long tenure with the band, was an outstanding performer, and have never suggested otherwise.

But being grateful for that does not legitimise continued speculation or discussion of rumour about why she lost that tenure.

[nightinr]

Fair points Caryl. I know its an emotive subject, but I dont think we should make this forum a closed shop and let all fans express their opinion.

Whatever happened I think its a shame for both parties as both have probably missed out.

[CarylB]

Fair points Caryl. I know its an emotive subject, but I dont think we should make this forum a closed shop and let all fans express their opinion.

Whatever happened I think its a shame for both parties as both have probably missed out.

I'm not suggesting a closed shop .. I think the words at the top of every page identify that this should be a forum where Meat is respected, and that gossip, speculation, rumour etc should not be indulged in because they are not informed opinion. Meat is clearly going to remain the professional he is and not comment.

So, by all means celebrate Patti's work with Meat and since .. say you think she's the best if that's your view, say you think the shows lack something without her if that's your opinion. Some will agree, some won't. That's fair enough and fair comment whatever your perspective. But I think it's reasonable for members to simply accept the reasons and way she left the band are not our business, will not be revealed by Meat, so comment on that will be uninformed, and the topic should really be a dead horse left unflogged.

[nightinr]

The reason why people are so passionate about this subject is because Patti was the best member of The Neverland Express there has ever been. I dont remember people getting so mad when other long standing members of the band left. So even a suggestion Patti was sacked by email which she clearly has said makes people very angry.

[Meat Loaf_fan]

The reason why people are so passionate about this subject is because Patti was the best member of The Neverland Express there has ever been ...

What about Amy Goff ... or Bob Kulick ... or Steve Buslowe? :roll: Of course - you have every right to have your own opinion, but I also have my own. ;)



PS. Am I miss something or there are new facts/gossips about Patti? If not - why to start another discussion with so high emotions?

[roomster]

PS. Am I miss something or there are new facts/gossips about Patti? If not - why to start another discussion with so high emotions?

http://patti-rocks.com/god-it-again-by-patti-russo/

[AndrewG]

http://patti-rocks.com/god-it-again-by-patti-russo/

Patti sees the world how she sees it. The joining Meat on tour could have been over many years ago (as was planned with last world tour several times). Perhaps she deserved better the last few years I agree but she also had an opportunity for a long time most good singers never get.

It is now and has been (for several years) time for her to move on and stop dwelling on the past. Nothing good will come out of retelling and reselling the "I was fired" story. It happens to countless people and artists each day. It is looking more unlikely each month that Meat will take back to the stage. It is not as if she missed out on large audiences. Perhaps a stable pay check for a few years.

If you really want to make it as a solo artist you need to be 100% focused on that. There is too much completion out there to keep messing about with the getting people to feel sorry for you approach.

In April 2014 I saw an artist live who could stand on her own feet and was just brilliant when she had a great band to help her. Focusing on memoir writing, thinking about the past etc and such stuff might make her feel good but it simply isn't a job, nor will it gain her much recognition (if that is what she still craves).

There are other avenues she could go down (providing singing lessons perhaps) that I just think will be more satisfying than keep wondering what she missed out on for the last 3 years.

[letsgotoofar]

She wrote one blog entry, it's hardly an indicator focusing on memoirs and thinking about the past is her number one priority.

[AndrewG]

She wrote one blog entry, it's hardly an indicator focusing on memoirs and thinking about the past is her number one priority.

I'm not basing my criticism solely on that one blog entry.

[nightinr]

Andrew I think Patti is slightly better than becoming a singing teacher, but I'm sure she'll appreciate your advice?!

[letsgotoofar]

I'm not basing my criticism solely on that one blog entry.

Well, the one blog entry is the only thing I've seen come directly from her, as opposed to fan-based speculation from who knows what source, so given that and your statement, I'd have to say your criticism is built on even less solid ground than I thought if that's the case.

[eltmatt]

Some peoples defense of Meat on here is so predictable, not sure why every discussion must turn to people being made out like they are slagging Meat. As a fellow musician I am interested in every aspect of Meat's professional career including his relationships with those he works with.

I know very well there are 2 sides to every story, I am simply curious as to what went down, I don't entirely believe she was let go for no reason at all.

[AndrewG]

Andrew I think Patti is slightly better than becoming a singing teacher, but I'm sure she'll appreciate your advice?!

Considering she blocked me on Twitter when she wrongly thought I was trolling her I doubt she cares.

Suggesting industry professionals use their skills to inspire or help others is hardly insulting.

There are countless of backings singers who have failed to make it on their own after leaving or being dismissed from leading acts. Perhaps you think this reality is too harsh for Patti.

[AndrewG]

Well, the one blog entry is the only thing I've seen come directly from her, as opposed to fan-based speculation from who knows what source, so given that and your statement, I'd have to say your criticism is built on even less solid ground than I thought if that's the case.

See you could, if you cared, have asked me "what are you basing your opinion on?" but you seem to take more satisfaction out of dismissing it and suggesting that no one has more information than you. Thus there is no point me even engaging with your critiques of my opinion if you are that closed minded.

[AndrewG]

Some peoples defense of Meat on here is so predictable, not sure why every discussion must turn to people being made out like they are slagging Meat. As a fellow musician I am interested in every aspect of Meat's professional career including his relationships with those he works with.

I know very well there are 2 sides to every story, I am simply curious as to what went down, I don't entirely believe she was let go for no reason at all.

The reason will ultimately not help anyone anymore. Even if more fans of either Meat or Patti know the details.

I was let go by an IT company several years ago (as were many others at the time). The reasons were out of my hands and out of my managers' hands. Thus the reason to a certain extent doesn't even matter anymore, certainly not years later. Sometimes a change in circumstances or intentions etc means it will have a negative effect on employment as frustrating, hurtful and annoying as it can be.

I am pointing out that I think people should move on, certainly Patti should because as I said EVEN if she hadn't been let go there are totally no performances on the horizon with Meat at the moment. Her career post the age of 50 or so was always going to be uncertain if she had relied fully and only on Meat. If you think that my suggestion of moving on is equal as to coming to Meat's defence then I think you are wrong.

[nightinr]

Some peoples defense of Meat on here is so predictable, not sure why every discussion must turn to people being made out like they are slagging Meat. As a fellow musician I am interested in every aspect of Meat's professional career including his relationships with those he works with.

I know very well there are 2 sides to every story, I am simply curious as to what went down, I don't entirely believe she was let go for no reason at all.

Yep its almost like people are brainwashed and can't think for themselves.

For example some people said Bat 3 was best album ever and what a great job Desmond Child had done. Fast forward a few years and people make out Desmond Child is the devil. I personally thought Bat 3 was and is a good album. The only mistake they made was not having Blind as a Bat as the lead single.

[CarylB]

Yep its almost like people are brainwashed and can't think for themselves.

Not at all .. just some of us consider that continued speculation is pointless. Meat has maintained a professional silence for some years, so people's curiosity will not be satisfied .. and imo it's boring. To consider it pointless is not brainwashing; but to swallow one side of a situation in ignorance of the full picture is hardly cerebrally sound ;)

For example some people said Bat 3 was best album ever and what a great job Desmond Child had done. Fast forward a few years and people make out Desmond Child is the devil. I personally thought Bat 3 was and is a good album. The only mistake they made was not having Blind as a Bat as the lead single.

Really? I loved Bat 3, said so then, still do. That Meat has since said the whole process was a bad experience for him is a shame, but does not diminish the end product at all imo.

[AndrewG]

Yep its almost like people are brainwashed and can't think for themselves.

For example some people said Bat 3 was best album ever and what a great job Desmond Child had done. Fast forward a few years and people make out Desmond Child is the devil. I personally thought Bat 3 was and is a good album. The only mistake they made was not having Blind as a Bat as the lead single.

The can't think for yourself criticism you point towards might be fair in a certain light. However I can also appreciate many fans simply side with Meat's feelings and thoughts at certain points on a forum merely to show affection and respect, like friends and family often would do. "Yeah you're right, sorry about that... I understand because... etc" I encourage independent thought too but I don't think trying to put opinions in such black and white categories would change things around here or elsewhere.

On Bat 3:
Just saw Bat 3 gets 4 1/2 stars on Amazon like most Meat Loaf albums do. For the vast majority of those who bought the album I think they reckoned it was pretty good.

I personally don't agree with Meat's opinions on Alive and much of his own criticisms of Bat 3. They are interesting back story insights. However the new tracks we got I think are mostly superb and it would have been a shame if they hadn't been recorded by Meat (Baab / Monster / Alive / What about love?)

I like the album except for the single choices indeed, the lack of piano in many places. Baab does it well, the Steinman songs don't. Bizarre. The production on the Steinman tracks are a bit meh in places. Seize the night could have been grander. The latin parts don't come across as dramatic as they could have been. I think Paul Crook's production on GATW is better for example. More fun and well thought out.

And then we almost come full circle. I also don't like the fact Bat 3 had so many guest appearances and that Patti was then dropped from two duets in favour of pop female singers which I believe was the reason she left the band in 2006 when she found out. Marion Raven was a bit forgettable in the end as pretty as she is and we never actually saw Jennifer Hudson I believe. Aspen Miller on tour seemed good but probably too early in her career to help Meat as effectively as Patti always did. Aspen seems to have retired. Hindsight is a great thing I guess but in the end losing Patti for all that other malarky was really not worth it. I'm glad Meat & Patti reconciled for the period between 08 and 13 and gave us tons more great shows together.

My memories of RAH are always linked to Meat performing almost solo somehow (never saw a 2007 show). 2008-2013 live memories are more about Meat with the NLE for me.

[PanicLord]

PS. Am I miss something or there are new facts/gossips about Patti? If not - why to start another discussion with so high emotions?

Ah. Welcome, you must be new here.

[Meat Loaf_fan]

Ah. Welcome, you must be new here.

Why you use irony? :roll: I was (only) wondering why to start new discussion, on this forum, if you don't know new facts.


PS. If someone want something good for Patti, then her name shouldn't be tied only with Meat. In other words - she should do more solo shows and/or her own CD. ;)

[ajf33]

On the attack again on her twitter page, Don't know what her problem is now, but wish her and Meat would sort it out behind closed doors (That's if there is anything to actually sort, her accusations are very vague and scattered)

[AndrewG]

On the attack again on her twitter page, Don't know what her problem is now, but wish her and Meat would sort it out behind closed doors (That's if there is anything to actually sort, her accusations are very vague and scattered)

Is she trying to talk to me on there? (AndrewN) ? Or someone who happens to have same last initial in name? (G is a middle initial. N is the start of my last name and I assume Patti knows that).
I'm not even on Twitter anymore.

Some people seem to be invisible in the chats, can't follow what's going on.

Sent her a friend request ages ago on Facebook but she never accepted. I assumed she never wanted to talk.
Now I can see on Facebook she waved goodbye to Facebook.

Easier to just pick up the phone with people to settle disputes/answer questions I reckon.

[letsgotoofar]

It's my understanding, from limited conversation with those in the know, that a certain segment -- and only that certain segment -- of her time with Meat is covered by a nondisclosure agreement, so she's being very careful about exactly what she can say based on timeline.

[AndrewG]

I must say I like the dropping hand grenade and then just leaving for several days approach on Twitter. :D

It's like posting "You all suck, it was all my idea" and disappearing for a week.

Some of the comments from people who are trying to keep on her side are a disgrace "He ain't shit without you." Awful. :-(

[ThatWriterGuy]

Donny, you're out of your element (and you know what's going to happen to this thread - the same as happened to all the other threads you contributed to about this topic).

[letsgotoofar]

This story is gonna get a lot darker before it gets lighter... about Meat, Jim, and several people in their orbit. I understand and appreciate the skepticism, but this is bigger than just Patti and everything will be aired in the light of day in due time.

[anotherday]

:( This just upsets me so much.
The whole thing.
Now people are going to question how we can be fans of his and Jims, aren't they?

[AndrewG]

:( This just upsets me so much.
The whole thing.
Now people are going to question how we can be fans of his and Jims, aren't they?

There have been people wondering how the hell one can be fan of Meat Loaf or Jim Steinman ever since Bat out of Hell was released. :lol:

I can't think of many artists I have followed so far who at one stage hasn't done something questionable, either a private matter I heard about or a blatant public political backing or statement I very much disagreed with. Literally the only one I can think of I never had a problem with was Roxette. :|

Since things are so polarised and toxic these days, and there is so much tribalism, I think this mostly private matter isn't a big concern to many people I would have thought. There are far bigger fish to fry with regards to celebrities and artists, what is said and done going by headlines and Twitter etc.

I'm sure there are still fans of Phil Spector. Look at what he did.

[Dick]

Im so lost on what the hell is even going on... if anyone cares to speculate or enlighten me please do. Im sure pm's would be better as we know how things can get. :-P;)

[letsgotoofar]

I debated exactly what thread to post this in, but since this is the latest concerning any "news" on the subject that is unlocked, I thought it might be here.

This isn't Patti's story, per se; it still remains to be seen how much of that will ultimately see the light of day. But... somebody's talking, or at least it appears that way, and it has bearing on the subject of Meat and Jim, or, at least, that's how I'm choosing to interpret this.

A gentleman who is reliably reported to have contributed to the process of creating the Bat Out of Hell musical seems to have decided to tell more of his story. He's released a semi-autobiographical piece of fiction entitled "Rocket to Mars," which seems a thinly veiled account of his time working on the show. Its prefatory matters (https://nicksummerswriter.wordpress.com/writing-samples/short-fiction/prefatory-matters/) certainly suggest that it was... an unusual experience. (Anybody who notes the similarity in language to Patti's blog entry of 2013 about being fired is pretty smart to note that, and invited to consider it in terms of reflecting a pattern of behavior within a group. I'll just put it that way.)

The first part, of what will apparently be three, can be found here (https://nicksummerswriter.wordpress.com/writing-samples/short-fiction/rocket-to-mars-part-one-act-ii/).

I'll admit that a little more about this story than may be published is known to me. Curious readers are invited to DM me. Meantime, I look forward to the next installment!

[Monstro]

I look forward to the next installment!

He seems to write at Jims pace, wouldn't hold your breath lol

[ajf33]

I notice that Patti has tweeted her support for the writer of the above blog, and linked to his page. Also She's tweeted the officially given reason that Meat wasn't allowed to record All coming back to me, (That Jim wanted it sung by a woman) is Bull, anyone shed any light on that??

[AndrewG]

I notice that Patti has tweeted her support for the writer of the above blog, and linked to his page. Also She's tweeted the officially given reason that Meat wasn't allowed to record All coming back to me, (That Jim wanted it sung by a woman) is Bull, anyone shed any light on that??

If you wanted an answer from Russo herself you'd be waiting till the end of time going by her Twitter behaviour. :lol:

[ajf33]

If you wanted an answer from Russo herself you'd be waiting till the end of time going by her Twitter behaviour. :lol:

Yesi had noticed she hardly ever replies to questions, and presumably she doesn't frequent here anymore! so will probably never know what she's getting at!

[AndrewG]

Yesi had noticed she hardly ever replies to questions, and presumably she doesn't frequent here anymore! so will probably never know what she's getting at!

It's kind of weird considering the statements and accusations she makes. Many devoted fans on there trying to help or understand her and don't hear anything back. And then she tries to reach out to (presumably) myself and another individual she hasn't heard from in a while.
Well what do you expect if you don't reply? :roll:

Just a bit rude to say the least.

[AndrewG]

Was Patti ever on this forum?

[roomster]

Was Patti ever on this forum?

stumpjumper claimed to be Patti.

[ajf33]

stumpjumper claimed to be Patti.


She did respond to a fb message i sent to her verified account asking if she was stumpjumper, and she (or whoever posts for her on said verified fb account) confirmed it was.

Apparently someone on here sent her a pm with some stuff meat said about her, and that made its way onto her twitter page, so, safe to say she was stumpjumper.

[ajf33]

Was Patti ever on this forum?

https://www.mlukfc.com/forums/showpost.php?p=623853&postcount=49

Thiswas "Patti's" Post in the other locked thread.

[letsgotoofar]

Well, the writer bloke (hmmm... he sounds familiar, somehow) is back and being much more blunt (https://nicksummerswriter.wordpress.com/writing-samples/short-fiction/afterward/). He seems to be implying attempted murder, or at least that's how this jaundiced eye is reading it.

[letsgotoofar]

Well, f**k me... beyond euphemisms at this point. This (https://nicksummerswriter.wordpress.com/writing-samples/short-fiction/addendum-1/) looks like a cache of pills similar to that described in the story the other day... and whose name and handwriting is that on the box? Stein-something... (Well, Stei-something, but anyone who's seen his 'print' handwriting can glance past that ham-handed attempt at obfuscation.)

[anotherday]

O_O

[madagascar]

"Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free."
John 8:32

[Dick]

I hope he continues to post. I'm enjoying the read

[letsgotoofar]

As am I.

Incidentally, the blogging bloke (who may have posted here before and interacted with me in a rather friendly familiar fashion, just FYI) would like anyone interested in the story to know that they can write to him via the address on his website if they want to ask him about anything that they've read recently. He doesn't want to get drawn into it online and have threads and the like locked, pulled down, etc., really not his thing, but right now he is more than happy to entertain questions from people about what they've read.

A little positive interaction can make all the difference. ;)

[MarkS]

Wild story, intrigued to here more

[Nick]

While we wait to hear more...

Does anyone know where to find Patti singing The Future?

I love her rendition.

[AndrewG]

Maybe Patti could get a job on Alex Jones' Info Wars stuff, singing about conspiracy theories at the rate she's going with her tweets.
(on a serious note I don't agree with anybody getting silenced for writing/saying such things, CNN is just as crazy as Alex Jones at times!)

[letsgotoofar]

While we wait to hear more...

Does anyone know where to find Patti singing The Future?

I love her rendition.

This I can help with. Check your PM.

[ThatWriterGuy]

Find the first podcast here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M84r0zWbPVI&t=1732s).
We talk about Jim.
Patti talks about her upcoming projects, an album, and new music.

[AndrewG]

Find the first podcast here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M84r0zWbPVI&t=1732s).
We talk about Jim.
Patti talks about her upcoming projects, an album, and new music.

No, I heard YOU talk about her upcoming projects, an album and new music. :lol:

It was really interesting, thanks.

Jim's email to Patti sounded very funny! I can just imagine him typing that. :lol::lol::lol:

To be fair as pretty as that other singer was, I was thinking the sort of same thing at the time. Still don't think that duet sounds right at all.
Meat was stellar at RAH in 2006 - and experiencing it literally from the front just in front of his feet was absolutely memorable - but the politics of that album, and things going on were so weird and it sounded Meat regretted the rush to do it without Jim afterwards. I'm so, so glad they ended their working relationship on a more collaborative note.

It is nice to know Jim & Patti had contact. Good to hear Jim really liked Patti!

[ThatWriterGuy]

No, I heard YOU talk about her upcoming projects, an album and new music. :lol:

Ah, ya got me.

Glad you enjoyed it :up:

[aks650]

Very much enjoyed that!

[nightinr]

Great podcast enjoyed it!

Looking forward to the next installments when hopefully we will get to hear about Patti's work with Meat.

Will Patti be able to tell her whole truth or are proceedings restraining her?

[ThatWriterGuy]

You'll have to tune in to find out ;)

[nightinr]

Out of curiosity do you have a list of Jim's 16 number ones?

Cheers

[Gazza717]

After her tweet, this thread should be removed

[unbekannt]

What the heck is wrong with her? All those tweets …?! :? :lurk:
I once was a huge fan of hers. But it was long ago and it was far away, and it was so much better than it is today … ;)
To say it in her words: ovaries and out!
There's nothing more to say. Actually, there would be a lot more to say, but it's not worth it.

[AndrewG]

I knew Patti was bitter but what she wrote is like she tried to find a bar even lower than humanely possibly ever existed at a time of grief.

Congratulations to her I guess. She found that even lower bar.

What an embarrassment to the fans who tried to help her.

:roll:

[Jayd]

I lost a lot of respect for Patti today, those tweets were awful and shameful, especially towards Meat’s wife at this time. Disgusted beyond belief. I hope in time her bitterness heals and she will realize what she posted was wrong!!!

[Jayd]

After her tweet, this thread should be removed

I don’t believe the thread should be removed as Patti was part of The Neverland Express, no matter what went on between her and Meat. But I am very disappointed in her actions today!!!

[MarkS]

Did it get worse than the F U tweet? As if that wasn’t bad enough

[aks650]

I personally have no respect for Patti and those tweets.. she needs to get over it

[Frying Bat]

It is a big shame... that a talented woman like Patti is such a vindictive person, i guess i if she had put all her energy in her career instead of a vendetta, she could have been a major solo star by now.
I will be honest i certainly don't agree with her actions but it doesn't prevent me from listenen to the songs she and Meat Loaf performed.

[AndrewG]

It is a big shame... that a talented woman like Patti is such a vindictive person, i guess i if she had put all her energy in her career instead of a vendetta, she could have been a major solo star by now.
I will be honest i certainly don't agree with her actions but it doesn't prevent me from listenen to the songs she and Meat Loaf performed.

She definitely didn't talk this way back in 2014. She would have been booted off the BBC Leicester radio show I helped her get onto I'm sure. In fact I would have been prepared to personally apologise to the radio host if she had had this potty mouth that she has now.
In contrast she seemed to negotiate any negativity at that time very diplomatically with her words. Kudos. :!:

Any amount of talent can never overcome being nasty, selfish and downright hurtful regardless of the excuse you may have.

But even worse things have happened to talented artists in the past. Look at Phil Spector becoming a murderer.

There is no reason to change your listening or watching habits. ;)

I can only assume that Patti's descend into conspiracy theories is evidence of some wider issue that she thinks the whole world is against her despite the attempts of fans to really help make a difference to her career. Eventually she chucked contact with them away as she thought Mark Zuckerberg was after her or something.

Well, keep spouting nastiness and burning bridges and eventually that whole world is against you thing will become a self-fulfilling prophecy.

It perhaps already has...

[LP]

It’s super sad, they were such a strong team. I sincerely hope she finds some peace and happiness. I’ve been around long enough now to have seen a few people get ‘stuck’ at a certain period of time and really struggle to move on… it is absolutely possible to do so but will take work on her part. She is a very talented lady whose gift appear almost effortless, particularly compared to Meat who (in his own words) made everything look really hard. I jumped onto her Twitter in the sincere hope to see something like ‘we had our differences but I’m going to really miss you’. Again, deeply sad for both the words and her mental state. There is ALWAYS a positive way forward and I hope she finds it. Luke

[anotherday]

Well...
This whole thing has just become sad.

[Gazza717]

Well...
This whole thing has just become sad.

She's tweeted again

Leave it now Pat

[AndrewG]

She's tweeted again

Leave it now Pat

She's coming up with some true horseshit if you ask me and I refuse to stoop to her level.

"I have truth on my side so I can be as nasty as I want"

Like taking a wheelchair away from a disabled person and saying "Look without that you can't move about."

But it's the truth, right?

:roll:

[L_Loaf]

I can't quite believe her tweets. I really thought she would either give a brief goodbye or just nothing at all but I am gobsmacked that she stooped so low.

[LisaT]

She's coming up with some true horseshit if you ask me and I refuse to stoop to her level.

"I have truth on my side so I can be as nasty as I want"

Like taking a wheelchair away from a disabled person and saying "Look without that you can't move about."

But it's the truth, right?

:roll:

I'm not seeing another Tweet from her

[Gazza717]

I'm not seeing another Tweet from her

She's posted some quote about truth and lies etc...

The thing is, her and meat were phenomenal together...and I actually feel quite sad that she has not either kept quiet or just posted a tick box "I'm so sad...." tweet

It's also quite a shame to see that she's had 20 replies...it just shows how far she's fallen

In my view, I could absolutely detest someone who had treated me terribly...I can't imagine how / why I would ever go after a person grieving. If she posted something in 6 months then I'd not be so shocked or disappointed.

[Wario]

id suggest we lock this. bring less attention to it

[roomster]

id suggest we lock this. bring less attention to it

Why should more censorship always be the solution?

[Wario]

imo not the time for it

[ajf33]

Does anyone know why she's aimed that vile tweet at Meats grieving Widow?

[Frying Bat]

Why should more censorship always be the solution?

I don't think this is about censorship but rather to put our energy and time into the people/person who rightfully deserve so and Patti at the moment is not one of them.

[eltmatt]

I don't think any censorship here will do any favours, if you don't want to see it personally then don't come into this thread.

[AndrewG]

Does anyone know why she's aimed that vile tweet at Meats grieving Widow?

BeCaUsE nO dOuBt sHe HaS tRuTh On HeR sIde.

:roll:

[sandmage]

The Kitchen Sink just posted a "funny" parody video. Giving the Podcast's close association with Patti her vague accusations and her recent tweets, I can only read this as being a disguised insult.
On the off chance that I'm getting this wrong, I hope ThatWriterGuy will clarify it. All the trivia about Jim was really interesting. And I considered myself until very recently a huge Patti Russo fan. But this is not the time for being vague or funny.
I realize I'm probably just feeding a troll right now. But, most Patti fans are Meat Loaf fans too. If you've got unsolved business with Meat and you're angry that you cannot hurt him anymore and now want to get at (some of) his fans? Well congratulations! I'm not going to buy Patti's Album if it was full of unreleased Steinman songs.

[allrevvedup]

The Kitchen Sink just posted a "funny" parody video. Giving the Podcast's close association with Patti her vague accusations and her recent tweets, I can only read this as being a disguised insult.
On the off chance that I'm getting this wrong, I hope ThatWriterGuy will clarify it. All the trivia about Jim was really interesting. And I considered myself until very recently a huge Patti Russo fan. But this is not the time for being vague or funny.
I realize I'm probably just feeding a troll right now. But, most Patti fans are Meat Loaf fans too. If you've got unsolved business with Meat and you're angry that you cannot hurt him anymore and now want to get at (some of) his fans? Well congratulations! I'm not going to buy Patti's Album if it was full of unreleased Steinman songs.

If it's Hale and Pace - Meat Loaf, ITV have blocked it.

[Jayd]

Patti who ????

[ThatWriterGuy]

On the off chance that I'm getting this wrong ...

Posted on behalf of Nick:

"You are."

:up:

[AndrewG]

Looking through the tweet responses and someone wishing Patti death over Meat and Patti admitting she was suicidal 7 years ago I think we need to take a step back here guys and let's not "cling on every word..." Patti says that you may disagree with or read too much into what we don't understand and take everything as a negative.

I disagree with what Patti posted and like I said above it seemed wayyy out of character to me.
It did upset me for sure.

But let's not beat Patti down or pretend she doesn't exist, when we only have little knowledge of what is going on.

We already lost one of our beloved idols. No matter what others write, nothing should change our love and respect for them completely. A family of friends should be strong enough to let every one make mistakes (as long as they are not the Phil Spector type of mistakes! :-P)

I can only assume Patti IS actually hurting inside even if she doesn't show it now. Her anger is most likely clouding her judgement of some of her tweets she posted.
At least I am willing to give her that benefit of the doubt now that my own anger has subsided somewhat.

In this day of cancel culture let's not fan the flames of trying to cancel people that we actually love (or have loved) when the media are ABSOLUTELY loving this extreme approach from fans and celebrities. Don't fall for their trap.

We can tell Patti what she posted is wrong or disrespectful but endlessly hurting or damaging her reputation is not right.

Thanks.

[Adje]

Thanks.

Patti seems to be the kind of person that thinks she can have both - Her own opinion (which she can) and her own facts (which is not how the truth works)

The fact that she is fighting her demons and seems to be in a dark place does not give her carte blanche to insult and hurt people on social media without being held accountable for it.

[AndrewG]

Patti seems to be the kind of person that thinks she can have both - Her own opinion (which she can) and her own facts (which is not how the truth works)

The fact that she is fighting her demons and seems to be in a dark place does not give her carte blanche to insult and hurt people on social media without being held accountable for it.

Absolutely true and people rightfully said she was talking bollocks with the Deborah tweet especially.

But saying things like "I think you should be six feet under instead." just crosses a line also.
And I worry it might just get worse and people start to (look to) mis-interpret things with each subsequent tweet.
I don't want to be associated with cancelling people or wishing them dead.

That's all I'm saying.

[Adje]

Absolutely true and people rightfully said she was talking bollocks with the Deborah tweet especially.

But saying things like "I think you should be six feet under instead." just crosses a line also.
And I worry it might just get worse and people start to (look to) mis-interpret things with each subsequent tweet.
I don't want to be associated with cancelling people or wishing them dead.

That's all I'm saying.

True. Those insults are equally vile and have no place anywhere.

[sandmage]

Posted on behalf of Nick:

"You are."

:up:

Ok.

:up:

So now I guess I will buy her Album if it is full of unreleased Steinman songs. ;)

Still I think Patti needs an intervention, and she is doing a lot of damage to her career. If her suicidal thoughts were because of Meat firing her, well, she could no longer work for him now either. But this way she had 7 years to work on her own career, which didn't go as hoped, but, still better than if she would have started after Braver...
I really cannot see how Meat is the true cause of her problems. She had a lot of opportunities through him. And she is in a business, where only few people make it, and only very very few people make it big.

[ThatWriterGuy]

I really cannot see how Meat is the true cause of her problems.

Therein lies your dilemma.

[jcmoorehead]

Therein lies your dilemma.

Look, I'm not being funny here but you and Patti seem to have continuously over the past while hinted at things and dropped tidbits here and there and it's wearing thin.

My primary stance with anything like this is to believe victims, if someone comes out and says something then absolutely give them benefit of the doubt and investigate where it should be investigated. Two sides to a story, but where there is smoke there is fire and all that.

Now this is a touchy subject because Meat has tragically passed on, and he can't defend himself anymore and I don't want to see his family brought into anything either. We all probably know Meat wouldn't have been a saint in his lengthy career, we've all seen how he could act on here, we have heard stories about his temper or seen his social media posts. I don't doubt Patti had a hard time during her career with him and I sympathise with it.

But I'm finding this act of dropping hints/tidbits and vagueries, almost like a "Listen on and all shall be revealed" to lure people in to be a bit disrespectful. If there is something to say, it should have been said by now, not strung out as it has been.

---

Also as far as the insults towards Patti go, wishing death on people is 100% never acceptable and no one should have to face that.

[Dick]

It’s a shame either way because now there’s only one side to the two sided story.
Not that I think we would have gotten the other side anyway.

But in terms of her grief, well, I get it to a degree, I worked in casting while being an actor and now when I look back and the more often I look back the more angry I get at injustices served upon me. But there’s nothing I can do about it now aside from try and move on via a different route.
Character assassinations and decorum and timing go a long way in my book and I just think the act itself isn’t the best, doing it in public is lacking in decorum and the timing is bloody awful.

If you have a grievance call out by all means but don’t wait till they’re out the door or on the way out to start your kicking.

I’m not trying to paint the reason we all visit this site as an angel or Patti as a devil.
But there was a time and a place for this score to be settled and now it never will be, it will just be someone having the last laugh and what does that achieve?

[Dick]

We must have been typing at the same time. But you articulated it better than me. But that’s what I’m getting at too.

Shall we combine posts? Lol

Look, I'm not being funny here but you and Patti seem to have continuously over the past while hinted at things and dropped tidbits here and there and it's wearing thin.

My primary stance with anything like this is to believe victims, if someone comes out and says something then absolutely give them benefit of the doubt and investigate where it should be investigated. Two sides to a story, but where there is smoke there is fire and all that.

Now this is a touchy subject because Meat has tragically passed on, and he can't defend himself anymore and I don't want to see his family brought into anything either. We all probably know Meat wouldn't have been a saint in his lengthy career, we've all seen how he could act on here, we have heard stories about his temper or seen his social media posts. I don't doubt Patti had a hard time during her career with him and I sympathise with it.

But I'm finding this act of dropping hints/tidbits and vagueries, almost like a "Listen on and all shall be revealed" to lure people in to be a bit disrespectful. If there is something to say, it should have been said by now, not strung out as it has been.

---

Also as far as the insults towards Patti go, wishing death on people is 100% never acceptable and no one should have to face that.

[ThatWriterGuy]

Look, I'm not being funny here but you and Patti seem to have continuously over the past while hinted at things and dropped tidbits here and there and it's wearing thin.

This may come as a surprise, but Patti and I are not joined at the hip. Her views are her views. My views are my views. They don't always align.

The (obvious) intention behind Kitchen Sink (at least, within its initial season) was to give Patti a platform on which to speak her mind about the events that she has faced throughout her career as a world class vocalist. Blow by blow, piece by piece, just as it happened in real life.

We only got up to 1994.

Let that 'sink' in.

The trauma that she has suffered can't be explained in a soundbite, and Patti has no intention of becoming a professional 'victim'. Any questions about this should be directed towards Patti, and not me, as I wouldn't want to speak on her behalf. It is, as always, on her own terms.

For my part, I tried to balance the above out with entertainment, insight, and a glimpse into the archives that fans would not otherwise have been aware of.

Sadly, that ship has now sailed.

There will be no more Kitchen Sink in its current form (the Meat and Jim aspect was intended to run for ten episodes before expansion into other areas).

Not a fan of what we're doing? Answer's simple.

Stop listening.


I'm finding this act of dropping hints/tidbits and vagueries, almost like a "Listen on and all shall be revealed" to lure people in to be a bit disrespectful. If there is something to say, it should have been said by now, not strung out as it has been.

The idea wasn't, and never has been, to 'out' anyone. I would've thought that this was obvious by all of the tip-toeing around we have had to do (to lengths you would not believe) in order to preserve reputations (let this sink in, also), avoid potential lawsuits, and keep the peace. When I met Patti she wasn't in a good place. Speaking about it, via this vehicle, has helped. You may not see that, but you see less than 10% of real life (for instance, the common conception that Meat and Jim 'loved each other' is far from the truth. It's a shame, but it's simply untrue unless it happened post stroke #9, whereupon I wasn't around and wasn't involved).

I'm more than happy for people on this forum to ask questions. To contest what they hear. It's the only healthy way to live. Question everything. But do it with intelligence. Read between the lines, and realize why, sometimes, those lines exist in the first place. Patti isn't going to lie to you. I'm certainly not going to lie to you. Kitchen Sink is a non profit, no personal gain platform. Sadly, this leg of the journey has ended prematurely. Losing Jim, and with Meat's sudden passing, it can't be any other way.

Also as far as the insults towards Patti go, wishing death on people is 100% never acceptable and no one should have to face that.

On this we can agree.

:up:

[sandmage]

Not a fan of what we're doing? Answer's simple.

Stop listening.



The idea wasn't, and never has been, to 'out' anyone. I would've thought that this was obvious by all of the tip-toeing around we have had to do (to lengths you would not believe) in order to preserve reputations (let this sink in, also), avoid potential lawsuits, and keep the peace. When I met Patti she wasn't in a good place. Speaking about it, via this vehicle, has helped. You may not see that, but you see less than 10% of real life (for instance, the common conception that Meat and Jim 'loved each other' is far from the truth. It's a shame, but it's simply untrue unless it happened post stroke #9, whereupon I wasn't around and wasn't involved).

I'm more than happy for people on this forum to ask questions. To contest what they hear. It's the only healthy way to live. Question everything. But do it with intelligence. Read between the lines, and realize why, sometimes, those lines exist in the first place. Patti isn't going to lie to you. I'm certainly not going to lie to you. Kitchen Sink is a non profit, no personal gain platform. Sadly, this leg of the journey has ended prematurely. Losing Jim, and with Meat's sudden passing, it can't be any other way.


When Jim died I was very happy about The Kitchen Sink Episode. I did listen and felt welcome at this virtual fire side chat.
When it went on about auditioning and touring I also listened and I spent some time last year letting all that sink in. It didn't doubt it. I had always wondered why Patti was "looking for a boyfriend in Australia" in these weird unexpected subtitles on the Melbourne Symphony DVD. Appears to be a little inside joke from Meat that's true meaning has now become clear. If my boss did that to me, I'd feel hurt. No doubt. Especially since that was almost ten years after the original event.
But, if it was bad to the extend that "Meat was the true cause of her problems", Patti could have left.
When Meat died, and Pattie tweeted her tweets I looked close at what the Kitchen Sink might do. I was irritated, because I was no longer sure what her intentions are and where this was going. As a fan, listening to all this I feel like I am called out to be a judge on something I have no insight in, cannot veriefy any facts. And I hate being in this position. The only facts I had was, Pattie holds a grudge against Meat's wife, and she was fired via Email... And Meat is dead. And I am a fan since the mid 90ies. And I want to enjoy some concert videos and listening to Meat's music. And in doing so Patti is everywhere. And I cannot stop thinking about what was sayed on The Kitchen Sink. So I waited, would would they do? And then the Kitchen Sink uploaded a parody video. And at that point it became very clear what was going on. You want attention through this. You couldn't release a sincere video stating that you would pause for six month and then continue saying what you need to say. By all means do what you must. No, a parody video right after he died. You wanted to draw attention to yourselves at the most unapropriate of times. Because you're plan of revealing bits of information and innuendos here and there was spoiled through Meat's sudden death.

The above quote is again, full of innuendos. Do you think anyone who follows Meat and Jim for some time actually thinks Meat and Jim were best friends? Well, one thing they did was keeping private grudges out of the public eye (Except for the lawsuit), because for their fans their lifes and careers are intertwined. There is no Meat without Jim, and there is no Jim without Meat.

Well, it'd be my guess, you were eventually trying to turn this into a book. You probably still are. Maybe at some point Patti would have gone to the press with accusations and you would have followed up with the inside story.
What I read out of Patti insulting Meat's wife after he died is:
Meat married the wrong women and she now tried to damange the reputation of the man who rejected her. I see Meat and Patti had real chemistry in all the performances that I can see. Whether I'm right or wrong you ask me to "read between the lines" that's what I read. Sincerely, this is the message that I get.
That's what I now think about Patti because of your Podcast.

I wish Patti the best. I hope she gets real therapy. Doing therapy in the public might not be the wisest thing to do. It incentivises holding that grudge, not letting it go. But then you wouldn't get the details, right? ;)

[letsgotoofar]

While I'm not picking sides here, it is important to note that sandmage joined in June 2021, and has only posted three times on this forum -- all of them in this thread and all of them to cast a negative light on Patti. Granted, she doesn't need their help, but be aware of what I've just said, as it certainly smells fishy to me.

[ThatWriterGuy]

When Jim died I was very happy about The Kitchen Sink Episode. I did listen and felt welcome at this virtual fire side chat.
When it went on about auditioning and touring I also listened and I spent some time last year letting all that sink in. It didn't doubt it. I had always wondered why Patti was "looking for a boyfriend in Australia" in these weird unexpected subtitles on the Melbourne Symphony DVD. Appears to be a little inside joke from Meat that's true meaning has now become clear. If my boss did that to me, I'd feel hurt. No doubt. Especially since that was almost ten years after the original event.
But, if it was bad to the extend that "Meat was the true cause of her problems", Patti could have left.
When Meat died, and Pattie tweeted her tweets I looked close at what the Kitchen Sink might do. I was irritated, because I was no longer sure what her intentions are and where this was going. As a fan, listening to all this I feel like I am called out to be a judge on something I have no insight in, cannot veriefy any facts. And I hate being in this position. The only facts I had was, Pattie holds a grudge against Meat's wife, and she was fired via Email... And Meat is dead. And I am a fan since the mid 90ies. And I want to enjoy some concert videos and listening to Meat's music. And in doing so Patti is everywhere. And I cannot stop thinking about what was sayed on The Kitchen Sink. So I waited, would would they do? And then the Kitchen Sink uploaded a parody video. And at that point it became very clear what was going on. You want attention through this. You couldn't release a sincere video stating that you would pause for six month and then continue saying what you need to say. By all means do what you must. No, a parody video right after he died. You wanted to draw attention to yourselves at the most unapropriate of times. Because you're plan of revealing bits of information and innuendos here and there was spoiled through Meat's sudden death.

The above quote is again, full of innuendos. Do you think anyone who follows Meat and Jim for some time actually thinks Meat and Jim were best friends? Well, one thing they did was keeping private grudges out of the public eye (Except for the lawsuit), because for their fans their lifes and careers are intertwined. There is no Meat without Jim, and there is no Jim without Meat.

Well, it'd be my guess, you were eventually trying to turn this into a book. You probably still are. Maybe at some point Patti would have gone to the press with accusations and you would have followed up with the inside story.
What I read out of Patti insulting Meat's wife after he died is:
Meat married the wrong women and she now tried to damange the reputation of the man who rejected her. I see Meat and Patti had real chemistry in all the performances that I can see. Whether I'm right or wrong you ask me to "read between the lines" that's what I read. Sincerely, this is the message that I get.
That's what I now think about Patti because of your Podcast.

I wish Patti the best. I hope she gets real therapy. Doing therapy in the public might not be the wisest thing to do. It incentivises holding that grudge, not letting it go. But then you wouldn't get the details, right? ;)

I can see that I'm up for a real intellectual game of chess with this one.

Let's simplify.

Strawman arguments, and ad hominem attacks (see also: 'making things up'), say more about you than they do about anyone else.

You're better than this.

Be better.

[ThatWriterGuy]

To address several issues:

1. If Patti wanted to 'expose Meat' via the media for an enormous sum of money, it would have been done already. Years ago. There was plenty of opportunity. Last week Patti was contacted by, more or less, 30 reporters and offered a live spot on BBC breakfast news. She graciously declined.

2. After the news broke officially of Meat's passing, Kitchen Sink lit a candle and played the last few moments of music that both Meat and Jim released together in true collaboration. The Hale and Pace video was uploaded on request of the original channel. We had used a small clip in the past. After ten years active the video was claimed under ITV copyright in the UK. The original channel asked if we would reupload for various territories. Since several members of the NLE particularly like this clip, I agreed, and took the clip down within an hour as copyright was indeed claimed in several territories. End of saga.

3. Patti and I have been friends for a couple of years. We talk on the phone most every day. I knew everything there was to know about her story before the concept of Kitchen Sink ever existed, and she knew every detail of mine. No matter how much you want there to be, there is no personal gain and you will not contrive a situation whereupon you pit one party against another and sow division. Honestly, it's as transparent as ... a transparent thing.

4. The rest, sadly, is just bad fan fiction.

[ajf33]

This may come as a surprise, but Patti and I are not joined at the hip. Her views are her views. My views are my views. They don't always align.

The (obvious) intention behind Kitchen Sink (at least, within its initial season) was to give Patti a platform on which to speak her mind about the events that she has faced throughout her career as a world class vocalist. Blow by blow, piece by piece, just as it happened in real life.

We only got up to 1994.

Let that 'sink' in.

The trauma that she has suffered can't be explained in a soundbite, and Patti has no intention of becoming a professional 'victim'. Any questions about this should be directed towards Patti, and not me, as I wouldn't want to speak on her behalf. It is, as always, on her own terms.

For my part, I tried to balance the above out with entertainment, insight, and a glimpse into the archives that fans would not otherwise have been aware of.

Sadly, that ship has now sailed.

There will be no more Kitchen Sink in its current form (the Meat and Jim aspect was intended to run for ten episodes before expansion into other areas).

Not a fan of what we're doing? Answer's simple.

Stop listening.



The idea wasn't, and never has been, to 'out' anyone. I would've thought that this was obvious by all of the tip-toeing around we have had to do (to lengths you would not believe) in order to preserve reputations (let this sink in, also), avoid potential lawsuits, and keep the peace. When I met Patti she wasn't in a good place. Speaking about it, via this vehicle, has helped. You may not see that, but you see less than 10% of real life (for instance, the common conception that Meat and Jim 'loved each other' is far from the truth. It's a shame, but it's simply untrue unless it happened post stroke #9, whereupon I wasn't around and wasn't involved).

I'm more than happy for people on this forum to ask questions. To contest what they hear. It's the only healthy way to live. Question everything. But do it with intelligence. Read between the lines, and realize why, sometimes, those lines exist in the first place. Patti isn't going to lie to you. I'm certainly not going to lie to you. Kitchen Sink is a non profit, no personal gain platform. Sadly, this leg of the journey has ended prematurely. Losing Jim, and with Meat's sudden passing, it can't be any other way.



On this we can agree.

:up:

So, are you saying that, Patti's story with regard to her time with Meat is now done, and anything else you put out will be more on what Patti is up to, or along the lines of your (I thought rather good) Queen video?

To be honest I think you're left with really three choices,

1. End Patti's tale of her time with Meat now, and move on to something else.

2. Continue the tale, but stop before the events Patti has alluded to, as, it does seem she did have a long period with time where there were few, if any problems, she could reminisce about.

or 3. Continue as planned and risk a backlash as there's now no way to hear Meats side (Tho i doubt he'd have told it anyway even if he hadn't passed, given he's not said anything about it since the "story broke" (for want of a better phrase)

Even after Patti started her "attack" on meat on twitter, he has remained nothing but complimentary about her, I remember a radio interview he gave where he described her as a fantastic co singer, and that was after Patti had started tweeting.

I get the impression from the word go, Meat wasn't going to get drawn into a war of words with Patti,

When Patti started posting on the other thread on here, I did manage to exchange a few messages with her, while I was trying to safisfy myself that the poster on here was indeed Patti, and she did come across as someone who was trying to shed a few demons .

So what are the plans for the Kitchen Sink going forward? (If you don't mind me asking)

[ThatWriterGuy]

So, are you saying that, Patti's story with regard to her time with Meat is now done, and anything else you put out will be more on what Patti is up to, or along the lines of your (I thought rather good) Queen video?

To be honest I think you're left with really three choices,

1. End Patti's tale of her time with Meat now, and move on to something else.

2. Continue the tale, but stop before the events Patti has alluded to, as, it does seem she did have a long period with time where there were few, if any problems, she could reminisce about.

or 3. Continue as planned and risk a backlash as there's now no way to hear Meats side (Tho i doubt he'd have told it anyway even if he hadn't passed, given he's not said anything about it since the "story broke" (for want of a better phrase)

Even after Patti started her "attack" on meat on twitter, he has remained nothing but complimentary about her, I remember a radio interview he gave where he described her as a fantastic co singer, and that was after Patti had started tweeting.

I get the impression from the word go, Meat wasn't going to get drawn into a war of words with Patti,

When Patti started posting on the other thread on here, I did manage to exchange a few messages with her, while I was trying to safisfy myself that the poster on here was indeed Patti, and she did come across as someone who was trying to shed a few demons .

So what are the plans for the Kitchen Sink going forward? (If you don't mind me asking)

We had decided, some time ago (hence no uploads) that it would be option 1. Given the recent news, it remains as option 1.

As for Meat's response, or lack thereof, what you see in public is not what goes on in private. Tired of the nature of this, Patti replied publicly. Again, if you want to follow this one up, please follow up with Patti and not me :up:

Glad that you enjoyed the Queen episode. We have some interesting guests coming up, should the tide turn that way.

[ajf33]

We had decided, some time ago (hence no uploads) that it would be option 1. Given the recent news, it remains as option 1.

As for Meat's response, or lack thereof, what you see in public is not what goes on in private. Tired of the nature of this, Patti replied publicly. Again, if you want to follow this one up, please follow up with Patti and not me :up:

Glad that you enjoyed the Queen episode. We have some interesting guests coming up, should the tide turn that way.

I must be honest, given recent events I think you've made the right decision (even if it was a decision made some time ago)

I do realise that public and private are two very different things, and can understand why Patti continued to tweet, in the hope (my impression) Meat's say something.

I hope Patti can find some kind of peace now, and move on, (I know that's sumit I should post to Patti, but for all I know she browses this thread, after all her user profile on here is still active)

I look forward to seeing what you have lined up on the kitchen sink, As a queen fan, I found your Queen episode enjoyable and informative, so will look forward to future shows, when time allows for you and Patti to get together.

[ThatWriterGuy]

I look forward to seeing what you have lined up on the kitchen sink, As a queen fan, I found your Queen episode enjoyable and informative, so will look forward to future shows, when time allows for you and Patti to get together.

Glad you enjoyed it :up:

If schedules align we may have our good friend Rosalie Cunningham on next.

If you're not aware of Rosie's music, check her out.

She's extremely talented.

[AndrewG]

I hope Patti can find some kind of peace now, and move on, (I know that's sumit I should post to Patti, but for all I know she browses this thread, after all her user profile on here is still active)


Sorry to but into your sort of convo together but I agree with this very much.

The Patti I saw live in 2014 deserved a more substantial touring career from that point onwards. I REALLY thought she was just excellent and I enjoyed each show a lot (think I saw 4 in total on that tour).
It was also fun just seeing her perform the likes of I'd Lie For You solo. A lot of stuff just worked well and there was this sort of energy and freshness that deserved a full audience like we saw at the small O2 venue but was absent elsewhere.
However I think she needed to continue with that kind of quality experienced band I think and really build upon that and get those type of people involved in making some albums.

Bruce Springsteen said it best himself when he was always doing his fun long winded band introductions about "you can't get there by yourself."
I very much agree with that and I think this is why Meat Loaf was so excellent live. In fact Bruce himself I thought was incredibly boring to watch solo at Royal Albert Hall (I've been very fortunate to have seen all my musical heroes at RAH). Sure he was good but just not the fun party filled atmosphere he put on display elsewhere. EVEN when it was not his regular E Street band (the Seeger Session show at Wembley Arena in 2006 was magnificent in fact).

Some of my reactions to Patti's tweeting I can see in this very thread actually seem a bit harsh now that I am looking back myself. But so were her tweets at times I guess. They just came across as hand grenades as I pointed out.

In the end I want(ed) the best for Patti because when you can see an artist that can give you that euphoric feel during a live show you just want that to continue forever and the internet wars just become a bit of an annoyance to witness, EVEN if there is a very good reason for the tweets and posts.

I wish Patti the best and hope she will still release some great music and maybe I will still catch her live again some time.
It would be nice for sure.

[ThatWriterGuy]

The Patti I saw live in 2014 deserved a more substantial touring career from that point onwards. I REALLY thought she was just excellent and I enjoyed each show a lot (think I saw 4 in total on that tour).
It was also fun just seeing her perform the likes of I'd Lie For You solo. A lot of stuff just worked well and there was this sort of energy and freshness that deserved a full audience like we saw at the small O2 venue but was absent elsewhere.
However I think she needed to continue with that kind of quality experienced band I think and really build upon that and get those type of people involved in making some albums.

Some context: the 2014 tour was done simply for the fun of it, without the involvement of management, etc. Since that time, Patti has been involved in a number of projects (including cutting a track that was considered for a recent Bond film, performing with Roger Taylor, etc), but in latter years felt little drive to both record and perform music, and, instead, concentrated on other areas of life. Music took a backseat for a while (despite a multitude of frankly amazing offers).

[sandmage]

To address several issues:

1. If Patti wanted to 'expose Meat' via the media for an enormous sum of money, it would have been done already. Years ago. There was plenty of opportunity. Last week Patti was contacted by, more or less, 30 reporters and offered a live spot on BBC breakfast news. She graciously declined.

2. After the news broke officially of Meat's passing, Kitchen Sink lit a candle and played the last few moments of music that both Meat and Jim released together in true collaboration. The Hale and Pace video was uploaded on request of the original channel. We had used a small clip in the past. After ten years active the video was claimed under ITV copyright in the UK. The original channel asked if we would reupload for various territories. Since several members of the NLE particularly like this clip, I agreed, and took the clip down within an hour as copyright was indeed claimed in several territories. End of saga.

3. Patti and I have been friends for a couple of years. We talk on the phone most every day. I knew everything there was to know about her story before the concept of Kitchen Sink ever existed, and she knew every detail of mine. No matter how much you want there to be, there is no personal gain and you will not contrive a situation whereupon you pit one party against another and sow division. Honestly, it's as transparent as ... a transparent thing.

4. The rest, sadly, is just bad fan fiction.

Talking about strawman...

1. Never said for money. And, that was what last year, I genuinly feared would happen.

2. How was I supposed to know that?

Meat and Jim carefully kept their private lifes private. A month after Jim died, you break with inside stories that would never gotten out if he was alive.
I needed to know what kind of person you are. I've been a bit provocative, I know. But, now I know, thank you.

What I said above about what my guess would be? This is how it looks to me. If it is true, Patti would even have my sympathy for it, had she not started her "attacks" on Meat. But it is what I read between the lines. You are the one with all the facts. I know nothing, and never claimed to know. You give clues and innuendos and literally say one should read between the lines. And now you claim I made this up?

I hope that you keep your promise and respect Meat and Jim's private life in the future.

As for me having never contributed to this forum? The last time I wanted to start was before Braver was released. Meat presented his track listing. Someone posted links to all the original demos and ridiculed Meat's ability to sing. Meat eploded in the forum, and for my timezone the next day collapsed on stage.
I simply decided, that in this forum, I had nothing to add.

In most of my messages, I wished Patti well. And I continue to do so!
That negative light, dear ThatWriterGuy, was your making.

[ThatWriterGuy]

Talking about strawman...

1. Never said for money. And, that was what last year, I genuinly feared would happen.

2. How was I supposed to know that?

Meat and Jim carefully kept their private lifes private. A month after Jim died, you break with inside stories that would never gotten out if he was alive.
I needed to know what kind of person you are. I've been a bit provocative, I know. But, now I know, thank you.

What I said above about what my guess would be? This is how it looks to me. If it is true, Patti would even have my sympathy for it, had she not started her "attacks" on Meat. But it is what I read between the lines. You are the one with all the facts. I know nothing, and never claimed to know. You give clues and innuendos and literally say one should read between the lines. And now you claim I made this up?

I hope that you keep your promise and respect Meat and Jim's private life in the future.

As for me having never contributed to this forum? The last time I wanted to start was before Braver was released. Meat presented his track listing. Someone posted links to all the original demos and ridiculed Meat's ability to sing. Meat eploded in the forum, and for my timezone the next day collapsed on stage.
I simply decided, that in this forum, I had nothing to add.

In most of my messages, I wished Patti well. And I continue to do so!
That negative light, dear ThatWriterGuy, was your making.

You're certainly on a (t)roll today.

When I advocated for reading between the lines, I did so with the caveat of approaching those areas from an intelligent point of view based on the evidence available to you, left by the people who were there and involved at the time (and those who have spoken, at length, to the individuals involved at said time). You skipped that part and instead made up your own story. Well done. Have a cracker.

As for promises - I make no such promises to you about any of the above. I am free to discuss what I like, as I like, as it happened as pertains to the truth. The relevance here is that I see no merit in discussing this beyond what I have already discussed and disclosed thus far. This should be obvious. See point one again.

The editor in me offers this advice: You contradict yourself, openly, within your very first point above.

Bravo.

Feel free to point out the 'innuendos' within my original reply with regards to either Jim or Meat. As far as I'm aware, there are none, and as I must be aware in order to form innuendo, well, you can see where this is going.

So here we are. I'm here, telling you the truth as it is. You're here, insisting that there's some kind of conspiracy, that Patti needs a psychiatrist and had fallen in love with Meat Loaf, and that I'm out for personal gain.

I have only two responses to this:

1. You're a better fiction writer than I.

2. With all the love in the world: you're the one who needs the psychiatrist.

Make sure it's someone good.

;) :up:

[sandmage]

You're certainly on a (t)roll today.

When I advocated for reading between the lines, I did so with the caveat of approaching those areas from an intelligent point of view based on the evidence available to you, left by the people who were there and involved at the time (and those who have spoken, at length, to the individuals involved at said time). You skipped that part and instead made up your own story. Well done. Have a cracker.

As for promises - I make no such promises to you about any of the above. I am free to discuss what I like, as I like, as it happened as pertains to the truth. The relevance here is that I see no merit in discussing this beyond what I have already discussed and disclosed thus far. This should be obvious. See point one again.

The editor in me offers this advice: You contradict yourself, openly, within your very first point above.

Bravo.

Feel free to point out the 'innuendos' within my original reply with regards to either Jim or Meat. As far as I'm aware, there are none, and as I must be aware in order to form innuendo, well, you can see where this is going.

So here we are. I'm here, telling you the truth as it is. You're here, insisting that there's some kind of conspiracy, that Patti needs a psychiatrist and had fallen in love with Meat Loaf, and that I'm out for personal gain.

I have only two responses to this:

1. You're a better fiction writer than I.

2. With all the love in the world: you're the one who needs the psychiatrist.

Make sure it's someone good.

;) :up:

Jesus, I don't think there's a conspiracy. You are a writer. Writers are in the business of writing. You befriend Patti. You collect stories. Eventually you probably are going to write a book. Well we'll see. It is what usually happens when a celebrity dies, and of course you're free to do that.

I can't wrap my head aroung why Patti would lash out at Meat's wife as her first public reaction. I conclude, her grudge is not really with Meat but with her. Whatever that might mean. I only tell you, this is how it looks to me. Originating from Patti directing curses at Meat's wife. She should not have done that. Everything else she did, I have no problem with. I onyl feared this might lead to a #metoo situation. Not necessarily for money. Please take also in account, that last year, I probably didn't read all you wrote in this forum and based this fear on limited information.

So you made no promises. So, we'll see about that book I think you will eventually write.

Patti needing a psychiatrist? It would be better than continuing to tweet, would it? Lot's of people have psychiatrists. You sayed I failed to see how Meat was the real source of her problems. Maybe she needs to talk about that with someone other than the internet.

In conclusion:

Please stop strawmanning me. It makes you appear to be a highly manipulative person.

[sandmage]

And since when is speculating about Meat, Jim or Patti wrong on this forum? It's literally what this forum is there for. Over on Jim's site, someone asks if Jim might have been into BDSM.
Nobody here knows the facts. Only you do. You say you and Petti would never lie to us. However, we all know that what Meat and Jim sayed wasn't always true. Not best friends. Only 10%... Nudge nudge, wind wink, say now more...

Yet I need a psychiatrist for saying how things appear to me. :D

I don't doubt you know the truth. I just needed to know what kind of person you are.

:up:

[ThatWriterGuy]

Ah, the old "I know you are so what am I" routine.

To address your points:

Writers write. Bakers bake. Candlestick makers ... you get the idea. It's amusing, but only because it's so willfully simplistic in its generalization. I'm a fiction writer, and other than things that directly relate to my life, I'm not interested in writing about the lives of others. Nor will I ever be. I can say this with as close to a 100 percent certainty as any reasonable person can give.

"I can't wrap my head around why Patti would lash out at Meat's wife".

Once again, therein lies your dilemma.

You could have simply asked. Instead, you acted like you were owed an explanation.

I've got news for you on that score: you're not.

This relates to all of your posts, both now and in the future.

Let's wrap up, because I'm busy and I imagine that you are too:

I've indulged you here because I like to give everyone the benefit of the doubt. However, I owe you nothing, and this particular brand of nothing is inclusive of both explanation and justifications. If you believe that this somehow entitles you to an endless back and forth based on the things that you have either blatantly made up, or erroneously inferred above, you are sadly, and seriously, mistaken.

So farewell, anonymous Internet friend.

I like the way you (t)roll.

[Guy]

Nick. If you speak to her most days can you ask her to come sing at my birthday party please.
Trying to twist her arm. 😉

[sandmage]

Ah, the old "I know you are so what am I" routine.

To address your points:

Writers write. Bakers bake. Candlestick makers ... you get the idea. It's amusing, but only because it's so willfully simplistic in its generalization. I'm a fiction writer, and other than things that directly relate to my life, I'm not interested in writing about the lives of others. Nor will I ever be. I can say this with as close to a 100 percent certainty as any reasonable person can give.

"I can't wrap my head around why Patti would lash out at Meat's wife".

Once again, therein lies your dilemma.

You could have simply asked. Instead, you acted like you were owed an explanation.

I've got news for you on that score: you're not.

This relates to all of your posts, both now and in the future.

Let's wrap up, because I'm busy and I imagine that you are too:

I've indulged you here because I like to give everyone the benefit of the doubt. However, I owe you nothing, and this particular brand of nothing is inclusive of both explanation and justifications. If you believe that this somehow entitles you to an endless back and forth based on the things that you have either blatantly made up, or erroneously inferred above, you are sadly, and seriously, mistaken.

So farewell, anonymous Internet friend.

I like the way you (t)roll.

Goodbye to you, too.
Thank you for the insights you gave me. All the best to you and Patti.

[R.]

This thread needs a rest.