Stupid question...

[dukesofhazard]

If the songs on Bat 1 were sped up to fit on the LP are they still sped up on other formats? If so, why?

I've never heard the original LP so don't know if there's a difference:shrug:

[proctorloaf]

Yes sped up on CD and tape. You can tell because 2 out of 3 is SO HIGH! They must have sped up the master.

[dukesofhazard]

Seems crazy that there's been no attempt to 'fix' this on any of the many reissues - would be interesting to hear the difference

[chrisb]

Also if i'm not mistaken there was a lot cut from the lenght of the tracks as well, would love to here the whole uncut masters

[Wario]

Also if i'm not mistaken there was a lot cut from the lenght of the tracks as well, would love to here the whole uncut masters

Literally any show from the 70s on my channel will give you an accurate take on what was musically cut.

to name a few:
Bolero off Bat
Love Death and the American Guitar (Wasted Youth)
The whole intro to Revved Up
Paradise's intro was longer as was the middle break portion

[AndrewG]

Literally any show from the 70s on my channel will give you an accurate take on what was musically cut.

to name a few:
Bolero off Bat
Love Death and the American Guitar (Wasted Youth)
The whole intro to Revved Up
Paradise's intro was longer as was the middle break portion

And how do you know for sure if these were really the full versions and not just live-esque variations/embellishments?
In fact a Bat out of Hell recording from Neverland (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfOGMwlijrA) indicates the album music intro was what was added. I'm pretty sure Bolero was a new bit added for the tour as was Love & Death.
A demo from FCOL indicates it (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtkXYKYGQJU) was later turned into orchestral piece for the Bat album and also lengthened somewhat for the final record.
I doubt VERY much the original recordings of the Bat songs were far longer than 50 minutes combined.

Perhaps there were ideas for a 27 minute version of Paradise, I just don't think it was ever recorded like that.

Meat recently indicated that Who needs The Young would have been on Bat, if there had been space.

I think it is all speculation.

All that stuff was never on the master tapes I'm willing to bet. We did hear some vocals from the end of Bat out of Hell that were not used on Classic Albums. I'm pretty sure the songs are presented in how they were almost exactly recorded albeit the 5% speed increase. How they were mixed is a different matter.

[Wario]

And how do you know for sure if these were really the full versions and not just live-esque variations/embellishments?
In fact a Bat out of Hell recording from Neverland (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfOGMwlijrA) indicates the album music intro was what was added. I'm pretty sure Bolero was a new bit added for the tour as was Love & Death.

Meat recently indicated that Who needs The Young would have been on Bat.

I think it is all speculation.

All that stuff was never on the master tapes I'm willing to bet. We did hear some vocals from the end of Bat out of Hell that were not used on Classic Albums. I'm pretty sure the songs are presented in how they were almost exactly recorded albeit the 5% speed increase. How they were mixed is a different matter.

Actually Who needs the Young was performed for executives, to their horror, according to To hell and Back. along with him saying "One day well get that on an album" or something like that. dont have the book on me atm

[AndrewG]

Actually Who needs the Young was performed for executives, to their horror, according to To hell and Back. along with him saying "One day well get that on an album" or something like that. dont have the book on me atm

If it was performed for execs it doesn't mean it was recorded. The question was about what was cut wasn't it? :??:

[letsgotoofar]

Actually Who needs the Young was performed for executives, to their horror, according to To hell and Back. along with him saying "One day well get that on an album" or something like that. dont have the book on me atm

Correction: Jim once auditioned for the same executives with the score for a musical that featured "Who Needs The Young." Meat tells the story of Jim's bad audition to (presumably) suggest that the Warner Bros. head honchos had a different reason for turning the album down flat than the publicly stated excuse that the performance of "Paradise..." was too explicit.

As for Meat wanting it to be on Bat, as per a conversation with someone close to them at the time, he also wanted to cut "Martha" for Bat. The album was probably many different things at different times, song-wise, until it became what we now know (let's not forget Jim telling the story of how the intro to "Bat..." was born out of the chord progression for a cover of "Jailhouse Rock").

Last but not least, if the album was sped up by 5% (although I've also heard 8%) as Meat claims, then how come (ragged edges notwithstanding) he was able to perform the album material in those keys for 11 months in 1977/78, and then just quietly lowered many of the keys over the years live, only occasionally reversing course on a few? (For that matter, as the original poster says, how come we've never heard the album slowed down now that technology can correct this?) I love Meat, and would not wish to be seen as criticizing him or calling him a liar, but I think he's really just defending hurt pride (and who could blame him) over his vocal issues that some people (arseholes, I think they're called) never fail to point out, and further I think the album was never sped up to begin with. Let's not forget that in 1999, on Classic Albums, he was singing along with the master takes and over-enthusiastically claiming he sounded the same as thirty years ago. No mention of sped-up tape then. I could, of course, be wrong. I wasn't in the room. But that's just how it appears to me.

[eltmatt]

Also if sped up 5-8% wouldn't that put them off concert pitch, not exactly a semitone or tone higher. Other sped up recordings or slowed down are slightly out of concert pitch, but as far as I'm aware the bat album is in concert pitch, also the recordings are the same pitch as some of the demos?

[letsgotoofar]

And then there's this YouTube clip from a BBC6 documentary on Todd Rundgren's producing career which focuses on Bat and includes pieces of alternate takes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slhfQG2Pex0

Unless they sped up every take, those sound exactly the same to me, and I don't think Todd would go to the trouble of speeding up snippets just so it sounds the same as the album for a Beeb documentary.

[letsgotoofar]

For some reason, that didn't take. Let's try again.

slhfQG2Pex0

[stretch37]

It's real easy to criticize Meat.

The point is he's a good man. He tries hard. He works hard and does his part. I admire him, 'over-enthusiastic' tendencies and all.

We'll all have decades to analyze it all now that he's hanging up the handkerchief :(

[anotherday]

*sigh*

[anotherday]

why can't some just enjoy things and take it at face value instead of trying to be INTERNET DETECTIVES? Not everything has a mystery behind it.

[letsgotoofar]

You're right, it's not a mystery: it probably wasn't sped up. Does it matter? Not really. It's still great to enjoy as music, and it's easy to understand why Meat would defend his own voice. Why do you equate anybody daring to contradict what Meat says (even when presented with a likely explanation, and understanding why he would say it) with negativity? Not everything has torches and pitchforks behind it either.

[letsgotoofar]

It's real easy to criticize Meat.

It's not a criticism to say he's human.

[glockenspiel]

Whatever happened on this or that track, there is a good case for speeding-up, at times ... As demonstrated by this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPr7eUMyuOI ,, which I find a lot more listenable than the actual release ...

[letsgotoofar]

If it adds something, yes, it's a useful effect. (I myself always loved varying the speed of home recordings to hear how it might sound, and I recommend others try it.)

[stretch37]

It's not a criticism to say he's human.

letsgotoofar:

I didn't mean to upset you. Trust me, coming from someone who can be just as sensitive as yourself (I saw your "shout box" post and your new thread): I did not mean to hurt you, and as someone who can be easily made anxious or emotional over a post on a forum, I would never try to do that to anyone on purpose.

My comments were 99.9% directed at the entire Internet right now, especially the Australian press. You have every right to say what you have been saying. PLEASE continue to do so.

I am glad you made the new thread, and are discussing how you feel. That is a good thing. I hope this helps.

Being a new member of the Meat Loaf fan club community is not easy, but I can tell you that after being in your situation many times, I have grown to love and admire this community of wonderful people. Know that I will always be here for you if you'd like to shoot me a PM if you ever need someone to rant to our bounce something off on.

Best,
Matt

[markyboy1985]

Will braver be released on spotify so i can stream it at my work as i dab radio but can connect my phone

[letsgotoofar]

letsgotoofar:

I didn't mean to upset you. Trust me, coming from someone who can be just as sensitive as yourself (I saw your "shout box" post and your new thread): I did not mean to hurt you, and as someone who can be easily made anxious or emotional over a post on a forum, I would never try to do that to anyone on purpose.

My comments were 99.9% directed at the entire Internet right now, especially the Australian press. You have every right to say what you have been saying. PLEASE continue to do so.

I am glad you made the new thread, and are discussing how you feel. That is a good thing. I hope this helps.

Being a new member of the Meat Loaf fan club community is not easy, but I can tell you that after being in your situation many times, I have grown to love and admire this community of wonderful people. Know that I will always be here for you if you'd like to shoot me a PM if you ever need someone to rant to our bounce something off on.

Best,
Matt

Thank you, Matt. That means a lot to hear. I think if more of us discussed how we felt in frank terms, the world might be an easier place to live in, both online and in real life. Especially at a critical moment like the release of what currently seems to be Meat's final album, it's important to have these talks so that future discussions of his legacy are not misconstrued.

[melon]

letsgotoofar:

I didn't mean to upset you. Trust me, coming from someone who can be just as sensitive as yourself (I saw your "shout box" post and your new thread): I did not mean to hurt you, and as someone who can be easily made anxious or emotional over a post on a forum, I would never try to do that to anyone on purpose.

My comments were 99.9% directed at the entire Internet right now, especially the Australian press. You have every right to say what you have been saying. PLEASE continue to do so.

I am glad you made the new thread, and are discussing how you feel. That is a good thing. I hope this helps.

Being a new member of the Meat Loaf fan club community is not easy, but I can tell you that after being in your situation many times, I have grown to love and admire this community of wonderful people. Know that I will always be here for you if you'd like to shoot me a PM if you ever need someone to rant to our bounce something off on.

Best,
Matt

Australian Press = why I don't read reviews.

Sent from my SM-G925I using Forum Runner

[stretch37]

Australian Press = why I don't read reviews.

Sent from my SM-G925I using Forum Runner

Yeah and Australian press isn't the only ones - US press have been just as brutal at times, same with UK. But Australian just seems brutal every time. I'm talking Braver reviews only.

But as well all are sometimes painfully aware, the press in our country is not a reflection of the vast majority of the average citizen. There are so many Meat Loaf fans in Australia and the whole AFL thing - I feel for you. If it had happened in Vancouver, BC I'm sure the reaction would have been similar. People aren't used to Meat how he sounds now. And then I'd be dealing with ignoring local press...bah, I hope it blows over for your sake melon.

[NightAngel]

Australian Press = why I don't read reviews.

Sent from my SM-G925I using Forum Runner

I try not to read it. Sometimes it is in my face....these are the times I see red and will, as nicely as I can, or not...let them know how disgraceful they are.

I love my country...but this topic is one that really upsets me a lot.

[ThatWriterGuy]

Whatever happened on this or that track, there is a good case for speeding-up, at times ... As demonstrated by this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPr7eUMyuOI ,, which I find a lot more listenable than the actual release ...

Funnily enough, I have a very similar version (same tempo, same starting position, slightly better reverb and quality) that I use as the opening to HCTB in my own library (and I also have a 'Meat approved' reshuffled track list, with several omissions and inclusions!).

[Dick]

....(and I also have a 'Meat approved' reshuffled track list, with several omissions and inclusions!).

can we know more about your playlist?

[ThatWriterGuy]

can we know more about your playlist?

Sure can -- I'm about to get into some serious work but I'll post it up later today/this evening, in this thread.

[ThatWriterGuy]

Ah -- I completely forgot to post about this. Instead, I spent the night working on various projects, listening to the latest batch of records that arrived but I didn't get time to listen to, and drinking Monkey's Shoulder.

Anyway -- my version of HCTB, approved by Meat at some time or other (it was maybe a month or so after release?):

1.Peace On Earth - EDIT (same as the 'BA Edit' that's out there, so tiny bit faster, tighter vox, tighter guitar solo, and dispenses with the long drawn out intro).

2. If I Can't Have You

3. Los Angeloser

4. Love Is Not Real

5. Prize Fight Lover

6. Did You Ever Love Somebody

7. California Isn't Big Enough

8. Let's Be In Love

9. If It Rains

10. Living On The Outside

11. Running Away From Me

12. Boneyard

13. Elvis In Vegas

Now, you've probably already noticed that there's a notable omission in the list. I really didn't like Song Of Madness at the time - it's grown on me since - but at the time it just didn't seem to 'fit' the album (and came across as a lesser version of 'Pig'). I did try and put it back in the list, but it just doesn't fit anywhere -- for tone or 'flow'. So I left it out.

Feel free to try it out yourself. I really like the pacing of the album in this order (Meat quite liked it, too, though he wasn't keen on the POE edit). The only stipulation is, if you try it yourself, you HAVE to use the POE BA edit - it sets the tone nicely (and helps make this more of an 'unofficial' version, and definitely not a 'replacement').

:cool: