Bat 40 - don't bother getting excited

[lorenzoduke]

To celebrate Bat's 40th anniversary, Sony have taken the bold and enticing step to re-releasing it in the exact configuration it's already available in (and has been for at least 20 years).

http://www.planetrock.com/news/rock-news/meat-loafs-bat-out-of-hell-gets-re-release-to-celebrate-its-40th-anniversary/

[AndrewG]

This is like saying to celebrate your 40th birthday this year, you will get the same you got 39 years ago: a happy 1st Birthday cake and a dummy tit. Have fun and enjoy!

This further confirms to me there is NO "guest" Bat musical album in the works. Only a cast album, which I have no interest in at all. I doubt it would have a Meat Loaf "bonus" song. Regardless, new songs by Meat Loaf should not simply be treated as "a bonus" when Bat is 40.

[CarylB]

I think it's simply Sony cashing in on the date and also the fact that the musical has finally been staged

[nikox1]

Cashing in is what labels do, to celebrate the release of the musical and to celebrate the 40th anniversary of the album it will be released june 9th. A few days after the musical opens,, its a time to celebrate this remarkable album and whats looking like being a hit musical. It will have a fancy limited edition cover, bla bla etc etc, but if it gets attention on Meat and Jim its all good.
Ps - will someone be over to promote it?
End of the year expect a career spanning greatest hits
And maybe a live cd?
Goodnight

Ps - its coming out in a gatefold double vinyl

[anotherday]

See MEats recent Facebook post.

[CarylB]

Mirrors my thoughts exactly

[duke knooby]

any hints for the non facebook people?

[CarylB]

He said it's another release from Sony UK to make money .. that Sony screwed them in the past, he and Jim get no royalties, and suggested we'd be better spending our money on the musical ;) He was quite emphatic ;)

[AndrewG]

any hints for the non facebook people?

From his FB:


IN JUNE ,SONY RECORDS IN THE UK, IS TRYING TO RELEASE ANOTHER STUPID VERSION OF "BAT OUT HELL" ONLY FOR THEM TO MAKE MORE MONEY. FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO DO NOT KNOW , JIM AND I GET NO ROYALTIES FROM BAT AND NEVER HAVE, THEY ADMIT THEY HAVE SOLD 44 MILLION ( WHAT HAVE THEY REALLY SOLD WORLDWIDE ) , JIM AND I HAVE GOTTEN , I AM SERIOUS PENNIES . THEY HAVE SCREWED ME AND JIM. SINCE 1981 . IT TOOK US ALMOST 13 YEARS JUST TO GET STATEMENTS. SO I AM ASKING ALL OF YOU TO NOT BUY THIS RECORD . TO BOYCOTT THIS RELEASE COMPLETELY . IT IS NOTHING BUT A GREEDY RECORD COMPANY , TRYING TO STEAL YOR MONEY . DON'T BUY THANKS MEAT AND JIM
PS . SPEND YOUR MONEY AND GO SEE A GREAT MUSICAL
"BAT OF HELL" THE MUSICAL .



Pretty sad Sony screws over their artists like this and uses them simply as cows to milk. I truly wonder if the Japanese parent really wants this kind of situation or if it is more American corporate influence. In many cases bad managers seem to be involved too. Sony as a brand seems to be involved in very iffy situations through its children how it deals with artists and their creations (Meat Loaf, Mariah Carey, Kesha). Same goes for the Sony movie company (using the beloved Ghostbusters brand to create a cheap feminist crap spin off). As a video game consumer, I'm glad Nintendo never went along with any PlayStation deal with Sony in the 90s. Corporate greed eventually kills humble innovation I reckon. Nothing would have been left of Nintendo or their high quality IPs Mario or Zelda could have been tarnished and the original makers could have lost any financial reward.
Disappointed with Sony to say the least.

[letsgotoofar]

Add George Michael to the list of famous Sony fall-outs.

(Also, I kind of liked the new Ghostbusters. Don't shoot.)

[nightinr]

Can't help but think Meat is being a little naive here. Surely the re-release will add publicity to the musical and Meat in general. I don't remember him telling people not to buy it during the "Last of Bat" tour....if I remember rightly he was trying to drive it up the charts.

[CarylB]

Can't help but think Meat is being a little naive here .... etc etc

No surprises there then.

However, I think he's simply and rightly annoyed that Sony are cashing in again, re-releasing an album with nothing new, no improvements, simply different packaging, and perhaps trying to get ahead of the BOOH The Musical album while at the same time using the publicity around it and great reviews it is getting to stimulate sales and line their pockets.

It's almost as if they're trying to get a head start on an album that would give all credit to Steinman for Bat Out of Hell, and I can fully understand why Meat is angry and wants to disassociate himself from this. He has done everything he could to support Jim and publicise the musical as Jim's work .. the PR he did on his behalf last year damn near killed him, and is one reason why his recovery from back surgery has been so lengthy and so very painful. The musical is getting great publicity in its own right now, Meat doesn't need more publicity for himself, and has been continuous in his promotion of Jim's work finally getting showcased under his own name. His words .. "We don't need Bat in the news , Just the Musical !!"

Nor do I remember Last at Bat being used as a means of "driving" the album up the charts .. rather a grateful and final thank you to all the fans who bought it, made it their own, and who had supported him for nearly 4 decades.

Not naive in my view .. simply angry at a company that has screwed both of them for years trying now to do it again, while at the same time pushing the original album, possibly at the expense of one coming out under Steinman's name with new voices taking the songs into the future. And I say that as someone who did do as they wanted and made the songs her own, but for whom Meat came with them, and for whom it will always be him singing them.

That he would rather his fans spend their money on seeing the musical, or buying the cast album, is about a deep and honest love and loyalty to his friend .. not naivety in my view.

[nightinr]

Bit naughty misquoting me there Caryl adding "etc etc" to my original quote.

Interesting that your post on Facebook last night appears to broadly agree with me before Meat responded to you.

[lorenzoduke]

I'm guessing perhaps Jim/Meat may have wanted a bigger Bat re-release for the 40th, possibly with bonus material and a direct tie-in to the musical? That certainly seems to have been hinted at along the way. If Sony have just gone, 'nah ~~~~ it, stick the same old thing out. It'll sell anyway and it means we can keep all the dough', well let's all get excited for Bolero/Bat Out Of Hell (Live) and a new sticker on the cover.

Also a trailer to the original album with a link to iTunes was posted on Meat's facebook just a few weeks ago.

[CarylB]

Bit naughty misquoting me there Caryl adding "etc etc" to my original quote.

Interesting that your post on Facebook last night appears to broadly agree with me before Meat responded to you.

To your first point, no. It's not "misquoting" to use etc rather than repost everything when it's in the post immediately above.

To your second point, no. I posted that what Meat had posted were my thoughts on hearing about it and that I guessed it might "keep you, Jim and the songs in the news, but Sony are greedy profiteers" Not broadly agreeing with what you said, ie

Can't help but think Meat is being a little naive here. Surely the re-release will add publicity to the musical and Meat in general. I don't remember him telling people not to buy it during the "Last of Bat" tour....if I remember rightly he was trying to drive it up the charts.

[PanicLord]

Don't think any of that stops them later offering a super deluxe version with all the extra bits on

[lorenzoduke]

Don't think any of that stops them later offering a super deluxe version with all the extra bits on

People who see a TV ad, which there will inevitably be for the June release and go 'Oh yeah! I love that album. Used to have a copy, God knows where it is now. I'll buy that again' aren't likely to buy again in the Autumn. You can only double and triple dip so much.

[renegadeangel]

I see Meat got rid of the FB post where he said that he and Jim had six bonus songs for the october release. Very curious how accurate that statement is and if so what songs he had in mind

[PanicLord]

People who see a TV ad, which there will inevitably be for the June release and go 'Oh yeah! I love that album. Used to have a copy, God knows where it is now. I'll buy that again' aren't likely to buy again in the Autumn. You can only double and triple dip so much.

Firstly this will be about the 97th version of Bat so while I would normally agree I think Bat seems to hold a bit of a different place in people's hearts. Secondly I think the actual market for a new version of Bat is probably so small it wouldn't make a massive difference. Thirdly Sony could sneak this one out without fanfare and release a deluxe version later on with loads of promo.

[lorenzoduke]

I see Meat got rid of the FB post where he said that he and Jim had six bonus songs for the october release. Very curious how accurate that statement is and if so what songs he had in mind

Intriguing. Be very interested to see that. Bat piano/vocals demos would be the holy grail for me, as I've made known on several occasions here.

[loaferman61]

I see Meat got rid of the FB post where he said that he and Jim had six bonus songs for the october release. Very curious how accurate that statement is and if so what songs he had in mind

Very interesting. Wonder what it could be?

[nikox1]

Ok my view on it, yes i work with a well known label.
Record companys make money, thats what they do. Yes they can be lazy and re release things etc etc,, the musical has had a promising start and it hits London very soon. Now i heard they would release Bat early to tie in with the musical, well c,mon its marketing. Bat is actually not 40 until October in the USA and march 2018 UK. But of course it was brought forward. What exactly is wrong? Media attention for the Musical and a iconic album? Nobody is forced to buy it or to go to the musical, but theres a chance here to let a whole new audience and generation to hear this album. Yes the label will make money ( shock horror )
Just like the rumours 40th anniversary being flogged to death. 300,000 extra sales and 36 extra weeks on chart, the problem? I dont see one.

Regarding Meats post!! Hey i don't know all the ins and outs of it, 4 years ago he promoted the 3d cover bat album, flew to the uk to do it. It went back into the top 10,, great exposure and job well done. I do believe he made reference to being paid this time for it. So is he not for the upcoming release?
Now regarding Jim? The only way a WRITER can not be getting royalties still? Is if he sold the publishing rights to it? Which means he did get paid for it.
Maybe there is more to it? We dont know all the reasons.
I just think aside from the label making money!! Its great publicity for the musical and vice versa. Meat made he's opinion clear and he has every right to speak about it, thats hes opinion about it, but do i think it was a wise move? No i do not,

[nightinr]

Well put nikox....it would have been great to see Bat back in the top 10. I just hope this outburst by Meat doesn't stop this happening. As Meat often tells us Bat out of Hell belongs to the fans not to him.

[Sue K]

I'm wondering if Steinman did sell rights to songs he's written because I watch a lot of commercial tv and I can lose count a day how many times I hear one or another used in an ad... Turn Around ... and Anything For Love ... Would that have meant he sold rights ? ... and if not ... does he get royalties every time an ad runs ?

[nikox1]

i think another view i see is that Bat is being released again in a similar format as before, except with a new cover. So most fans will only buy this for the collectors edition cover, as 99% of fans will already have the album. So what harm is happening? Nobody is being forced to buy it, but there is a 40th to celebrate and a musical to celebrate, it can only help both causes.

Meats post, is he's business and maybe he has justified reasons?
I will be honest, down the years the marketing of Meats new material has sucked big time, really has. Between delayed and cancelled singles. Albums released 4 months in other continents before release globally, failure to promote on the right tv shows etc etc,, so when i see a chance to promote hes music and get some attention i am all for it. IF? Meat wanted to put out a proper 40th album with rare stuff well then fair play, and delight fans.
But june is the time for this!!! The musical is hitting the Westend!!! Plan ahead and get it sorted, everybody communicate and put it out there!!!
But again it shows the lack of timing and organisation. Im sorry but from a promotion and sales point of view it shows again the same faults as before.
Sony may aswell re release it, at least the timing is correct, will it sell? Who knows? Is it half arsed? Absolutely!!! But at least the timing is right!!!

Braver imo is a great album, but the promo was nothing short of shite!!
Itunes blunder, crap uk tv shows, no tv adds, most of the promo was done on facebook. Meat got on some good USA tv shows in fairness, but the US dont really care anymore.
I could continue with the other albums but i wont

Last example - UK fans will be familiar with the album - piece of the action the best of, a cheap sony greatest hits package. 64 weeks on the chart:shock:,, never went higher than 56:shock:,, but has sold 318,000 copies in the uk, thats platinum folks:shock:,, the last 2 times Bat and Hits out of hell were re released they went top 10:shock:,, selling almost 100,000 copies each, Gold sales.
And there is why labels keep re releasing these albums - because there are always people who will buy them, people update an old copy or a few new fans come along. The majority of fans dont come out to play for the new stuff

[CarylB]

I'm wondering if Steinman did sell rights to songs he's written because I watch a lot of commercial tv and I can lose count a day how many times I hear one or another used in an ad... Turn Around ... and Anything For Love ... Would that have meant he sold rights ? ... and if not ... does he get royalties every time an ad runs ?

I don't know, but I have a feeling he might have lost the rights to revenue for use of the songs on BOOH .. so may have been better advised with the later ones? With BOOH they were starting out, fighting to get anyone to produce the album .. and a lot seems to have gone wrong when Sony bought out the original company, for Papp as well as Meat and Jim.

[CarylB]

So what harm is happening? Nobody is being forced to buy it, but there is a 40th to celebrate and a musical to celebrate, it can only help both causes.

It must grate on them that many think they must be rich as Croesus given it is one of the best selling albums of all time, whilst in fact they get nothing from all these re-issues. I can understand a huge irritation at Sony reissuing the 25th anniversary edition as is again to make a fast buck, particularly when it has fought tooth and nail to prevent them benefiting, but many of their fans think they do.

You say
IF? Meat wanted to put out a proper 40th album with rare stuff well then fair play, and delight fans.

Like Lorenzoduke, I seem to recall some hints about a BOOH re-release for the 40th anniversary with some bonus material, and if that has fallen by the wayside whether due to Sony squashing the idea or wanting to rush it out ahead of the musical cast album or whatever, that may explain some of the anger. One thing I noted .. in response to a comment about it having a new special edition cover, Meat said nothing had been sent to them, which it would need to be. I sense they feel pre-empted, not consulted properly, and are imo justifiably somewhat pissed off.

[nikox1]

IF they were planning something? They still can i guess,
Anyway i dont think any of us should lose sleep over it:D,,
The release will pass by, etc etc,,
I just think that what should be a celebration was tarnished a little by the Facebook post. But it is what it is

[duke knooby]

i think another view i see is that Bat is being released again in a similar format as before, except with a new cover. So most fans will only buy this for the collectors edition cover, as 99% of fans will already have the album. So what harm is happening? Nobody is being forced to buy it, but there is a 40th to celebrate and a musical to celebrate, it can only help both causes.



seems like this release is being done to benefit only one cause, not surprising, but disappointing.

[eltmatt]

I think his frustration is justified, its clearly released to make a quick buck, and that buck isn't going to the artist or writer which is imo morally wrong.

[nikox1]

I think his frustration is justified, its clearly released to make a quick buck, and that buck isn't going to the artist or writer which is imo morally wrong.

The whole industry is morally wrong,

[ThatWriterGuy]

Meat and Jim were planning a 40th anniversary release for the best part of a year -- that was the secret project -- so you can imagine why Meat may be more than a little pissed at this decision.

[Monstro]

Meat and Jim were planning a 40th anniversary release for the best part of a year -- that was the secret project -- so you can imagine why Meat may be more than a little pissed at this decision.

And according to Meat they still are, the Sony release has been cancelled

[Vickip]

And according to Meat they still are, the Sony release has been cancelled

Yes, I just saw his updated post :D

[CarylB]

Sometimes integrity wins!! :D

Meat thanks us all, but I have a feeling that the entertainment media who picked up his original post carried a lot of weight ;)

[AndrewG]

Mr Sony is turning over a new leaf. Good.

If the next news I hear is that Simon Cowell and Ant N' Dec are retiring then I'm hanging the flag out.

[proctorloaf]

Update from Meat:

'Ok , thanks to all of you ... Sony UK is no longer releasing a 40th anniversary record on June 9th . They canceled the release . Now Jim and I can complete our plans for a real 40th anniversary record , with some real bonus tracks that people have never heard . Thanks too all of you for speaking up .
Meat and Jim'

[eltmatt]

yay! wonder what we're gonna get then and when?

[letsgotoofar]

I don't know, but I have a feeling he might have lost the rights to revenue for use of the songs on BOOH .. so may have been better advised with the later ones? With BOOH they were starting out, fighting to get anyone to produce the album .. and a lot seems to have gone wrong when Sony bought out the original company, for Papp as well as Meat and Jim.

I dunno how Papp figures into it; if it's the Papp I think you're referring to, he and Jim had long separated over Jim's desire to move into records rather than staying in theater. (Apparently, if you believe some of Ben's posts in the Jim Steinman Forever group, this was a tiff they frequently had. Frequently.)

I think the frequency of Jim's songs popping up in commercials is owed to entirely to two matters:


The easy cheque. Licensing hit songs for advertising can be very lucrative for both songwriters and publishers. When an ad agency wants to use a hit song to advertise a product, they sign a license which allows them to do certain things during a specified period of time under certain conditions, with a termination of all rights after the agreement is over. For a major product campaign, the payment can be as high as $1,000,000; for a local one, it can be as much as $10,000. (All fees, of course, negotiable depending on how big a role the song will play in advertising, how popular the song was to begin with, etc.) And that's cash in hand upon signing the agreement or within 10 days of doing so. If they're optioning the song for a period of considerable length, there's also the possibility of option payments; if the ads are still going well, they've got to pay to keep using the song(s), as well as new payments to use the song(s) in new ads for the same campaign. For someone who isn't doing much of anything but has a catalogue of recognizable hits, it's a quick and easy way to make bank.
Brand recognition. The more people hear his songs, the more they remember them; the more they remember them, the more they get curious about who wrote them; the more curious they get, the more inclined they are to look up that songwriter and see what they are doing now. Bit of a long shot and long-range plan, but it's worth the risk. You think it's a coincidence that all of Jim's hits are coming back to television just as he's preparing to open a major West End musical? ;) I've had my issues with the man at times, but I've never accused him of lack of intelligence.


On another thread topic, for those accusing Jim of making money from the album when Meat hasn't, let's not forget that we're talking in terms of royalties, which is always a sticky wicket. And to add further confusion, songwriting/publishing royalties are different from recording royalties. In the case of songs, the writer and publisher get their royalties when the record company pays them to the publisher, who then gives the writer his share (it's typically split 50/50). In the U.S., the royalties are based on a "statutory rate" set by the U.S. Congress, and that rate can get increased to follow changes in the economy, usually based on the Consumer Price Index. Currently, the statutory rate is $.08 for songs five minutes or less in length or $.0155 per minute for songs that are over five minutes long. So, for example, a song that is eight minutes long would earn $.124 for each recording sold.

Having said that, there is room for negotiation; usually, the record companies will negotiate a deal to pay only 75% of the statutory rate, and it's also worth noting that there is no law against negotiating a deal for a lower one (indeed, sometimes it's in the best interest of all parties to agree to a lower rate).

I don't know the circumstances of the deal with Epic/Cleveland International (now a part of Sony), but those accusing Jim of making money from the publishing as opposed to Meat not seeing a dime don't know what they're talking about. If Meat and Jim are currently getting pennies on the dollar in terms of recording royalties, what makes it reasonable to assume that Sony is accurately and fairly reporting publishing returns as opposed to sales?

Just my tuppence.

[CarylB]

I dunno how Papp figures into it

He doesn't ;) My aberration, I meant Popovitch .. the brain had it, but the fingers had a will of their own ;)

[loaferman61]

Popovitch ended up in a bunch of lawsuits trying to get paid also. I read an interview where Todd Rundgren said he still gets a decent check for it but he is the only one I have seen who may have been paid even halfway decent. He had 8 percent which I think Sony may have bought.

[CarylB]

Yes, that's what I was referring to . I think his estate continued the battle. And yes, Rundgren sold his share to Sony.

[nikox1]

And according to Meat they still are, the Sony release has been cancelled

And the new one will also be a Sony release

[PanicLord]

Sounds good I hope they remaster it and give the sound some added depth and oomph! Bonus tracks sound intriguing too, provided the backing is not done on a Casio keyboard :)

[anotherday]

And the new one will also be a Sony release

But at least they're working WITH Meat/Jim/Management rather than just shooting out a release for $$$$

[NightAngel]

I was so glad to read that Sony scrapped their release and Meat and Jim will be releasing theirs!

It is the right thing and the only way it should happen.

Looking forward to hearing bonus tracks and the release!

[Danny L]

I wonder if this has anything to do with Meat appealing for rare stuff:

"Does anyone here have the recordings I did with the POP CORN BLIZZARD , DOES ANYONE have "More than you Deserve" and "Presence of the lord" I did for RSO. also "Stand by me" I did with Procol Harum from 1973 ."


Anyway I'm glad they're doing it properly rather than another half-assed rerelease of stuff we all have several times over!