View Full Version : If this is site feedback.... please read and use it!!!
Okay, it is site feedback....so here it comes.
It has become one of the most terrible Meat Loaf sites. Since there are so much so called fans that are here since Fire Ball is on the site. Even some older / longer fans are ruining it so much. Then the lay out sucks.
With much pain in my heart i'm looking at this site. How terrible it is. Not only people are ruining it, also the complete postwhore, discriminate and cursing thing has gone to far.
If this is how it must be.... i will not come here any more.
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I'm here cause i'm a Meat Loaf fan. I like the man, i like the music, i like the movies. They are great.
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But now..... postwhoring is for some of us (i know, i also used to do it) a daily thing. It is not about opinions anymore, it is about saying nothing. It is about not respect each other, it is about fighting on someone or his/her words.
It is terrible. The hard thing for me is that i can not do a thing about it. And that is hard. Not even in PM's your save. I got a pm from a person that i thought was okay..... but after this pm i will never talk to her again.
Also... .beneath the avatar there are some buttons that you can "add" or "ignore" someone..... I will say... this is very racistic!!!! Respect people!
I know that i'm tough, hard, cursing, shouting, etc.... and that i'm guilty myself to some things. But were has it gone???
What is the reason that people are here??? Is that also for the words i've written between the lines or is it cause Fire Ball is here?? Or are they here to make someone else feel worse, terrible and want to kick this person in the ground???
About the lay-out... i keep repeating myself... it is not user friendly. I know that.... why??? I'm a teacher in the art, and designing was a huge part of my education. I graduated at designing so.....
Also here, nothing i can do about it. It is not my site, but.... i when you are changing things, and you got response from people (over 27% thinks it sucks) then you must think by yourself.... what is wrong, what can i do to improve it and make it better.
Maybe i'm wrong about this all, maybe i'm just a nobody or maybe i'm just insane... but i had to say this. I'm feeling so sorry that i'm not on the site anymore. Just due to the things that i've written here.
If you want to react.... please feel free to email me at:
treppihcs@hotmail.com
No PM'S.... not reading them any more.
The Butcher, Tim
Tim Schipper
The Netherlands.
Sapphire Lady
17 Oct 2003, 00:13
My humble opinion on these matters is as follows:-
I think this is one of the best Meat sites and it's the only one I visit on a daily basis. The new layout is actually more user friendly than the old one once you get used to it and it's great to have a choice of colour schemes. Easier on the eye than the old black version.
As a webmaster myself I know that a huge amount of work must have gone into the creation of this site. I'm sure that constructive criticism would be welcomed but not downright rude comments. That is just being disrespectful.
I am here because I am a Meat fan and I would have thought that is the same reason everyone is here. I find it hard to believe that people are here simply because Meat visits the forum. He doesn't visit very often (he's a busy man) and I don't imagine for one second that he reads all the posts. He posts an update every now and again which is great but it's hardly going to be anyone's sole reason for being here.
I'm not a great fan of postwhoring either but it seems to be more contained within the Off Topic section now. Those who want to postwhore can do so to their hearts content in the Postwhores thread without annoying anyone else.
As for the cursing and shouting, well I guess that's why the Fight Club section was created. Those who don't want to fight don't need to look at or participate in that section.
That's all folks. :D
Hi Tim,
i'll try to address some points you mentioned.
It has become one of the most terrible Meat Loaf sites. Since there are so much so called fans that are here since Fire Ball is on the site. Even some older / longer fans are ruining it so much. Then the lay out sucks.
With much pain in my heart i'm looking at this site. How terrible it is. Not only people are ruining it, also the complete postwhore, discriminate and cursing thing has gone to far.
Regarding the layout issue, scroll down.
Well, then seriously - what do you expect me to do? Kick out all people that joined in 2003? Come on, you know that this would be completely ridiculous. I do know that we have some "discussions" posted here that shouldn't have happened. So what should I do with them? Censor them? Delete them? In my eyes this would be as bad as abusing the messageboard for just insulting people. However, I decided for myself that I'd rather prefer people to be mature enough for discussions, than supervising each and any of their messages. If somebody feels the need to talk his mind here (like you did), fine. But be prepared that you might get some answers you don't like. I never had the intention to set up a messageboard where all guests are looking through some pink coloured glasses and post only positive things. That would be boring and basically renders a forum useless. You're mentioning "... discrimate and cursing ...". Sounds like you are talking about the "Fight Club". May I direct your attention to my little announcement I posted there: "If you are easily offended by people getting into arguments, don't go any further. You have been warned."? I suppose you have read that.
If this is how it must be.... i will not come here any more.
Bad news. You should give this another thought.
I'm here cause i'm a Meat Loaf fan. I like the man, i like the music, i like the movies. They are great.
Well, that basically makes us a community here, eh? Then again, I do remember that you have had some not so positive opinions about stuff Meat recently made. With regard to your message above and with all respect, should I have deleted that? I think not.
It is about not respect each other, it is about fighting on someone or his/her words.
Don't tell me that you are a virgin regarding this. That would be a lie.
It is terrible. The hard thing for me is that i can not do a thing about it. And that is hard. Not even in PM's your save. I got a pm from a person that i thought was okay..... but after this pm i will never talk to her again.
Oh - somebody does not share your opinion about something and suddenly that person is not "ok" anymore? Does that imply that everything that does not correlate with your opinion is bullcrap? Well, it obviously wasn't any kind of insult, because then you would have sent me a complaint, so that I could have done something to stop that. Am i right?
Also... .beneath the avatar there are some buttons that you can "add" or "ignore" someone..... I will say... this is very racistic!!!! Respect people!
Oh ... I have installed an addition to forum software. Is this an act of racism? You are accusing me of racism and yet you are talking about respecting people? You'd better get your facts straight before posting crap like this. Did you read what that addition does? Well, basically it could just solve most of your problems on the forums you have right now. I won't tell you, check your profile, read the faq, find out for yourself and then judge.
About the lay-out... i keep repeating myself... it is not user friendly. I know that.... why??? I'm a teacher in the art, and designing was a huge part of my education. I graduated at designing so.....
Also here, nothing i can do about it. It is not my site, but.... i when you are changing things, and you got response from people (over 27% thinks it sucks) then you must think by yourself.... what is wrong, what can i do to improve it and make it better.
Finally. Now how come that I think that this is the main reason behind this rant? I'm not going into this very detailed, just a few remarks. "User friendly" - Define "User Friendly", please. Are you talking about "Usability" or not? A graduate in design does not necessarily make you a software engineer. 30% of all voters people think it's bad? Well, that makes about 70% that think that it's ok. Should I ignore them? And how many of the 30% have been your votes?
Ok, let's find some constructive ending here. Tim, simply saying "It sucks" is quite easy. Doing this won't get you anywhere. Regarding your layout issue I do expect some proposals from you on how to make it "less suck", otherwise nothing will happen. And you might want to give the buddylist a try.
And finally, I'm not running the mlukfc. I'm just the plumber and responsible for this website.
If you have a problem with that, feel free to post a complaint to Diane, as an example.
R.
Tim
I read your post and am sorry to see you so unhappy. I know when you're not happy you speak .. erm .. abruptly? Tact is not your middle name :) I know you don't like the changed layout. For me, I think it is easier for someone new to find their way round now, and since Rainer has provided the "Classic" option, it is not a million miles away from its original "look". But I tend to come straight to the forum, so the changes don't affect me too much. I can see that Rainer has put a lot of time and effort into the new layout, and has put further effort into introducing options in response to people's feedback.
I am one of those who has registered since Meat did, but that does not mean I have not browsed the forum before that. I've been a member of the UK Fan Club for some years, but only registered to post when the UK promotion of CHSIB started, because that was the time I felt I could do something useful and helpful to Meat, and I've been a fan of his since 1978. I stayed pretty much on that topic for some time .. but gradually the other threads seduced me :) The wide range of topics is the forum's strength imo .. for those who want to give and get information and share ideas/suggestions to support Meat there are topics .. to those who want to chat and play there is Off Topic, and to those with the time there is the whole enchilada :)
You say "I'm here cause i'm a Meat Loaf fan. I like the man, i like the music, i like the movies. They are great. " Same here. That's why I used to browse the forum, and that's why I would continue to browse and post even if Meat didn't post here any more.
Tim, you aren't a nobody, nor insane in my book. You do feel things very strongly. As to respect or lack of it, fighting, and "making someone else feel worse, terrible and wanting to kick this person in the ground" .. here I can see your hymn sheet and it is not so different to mine. I think it's reasonable to expect people won't always agree, and to expect that people will challenge or disagree with criticisms of Meat. Most of us are avid Meat fans, and that's to be expected. I try to be fair and courteous when I do this, as do most people. Plain speaking seems fair to me, and one can expect the occasional exasperated comment :) However as one who has suffered a recent kicking, I do empathise with your comments in this area. It's unpleasant for those who are the target, and distasteful and discouraging to passing observers imo. And although one can say if you don't like fighting don't go to Fight Club, moving a topic there doesn't stop what's happening, and if one is the target one is dragged there with the topic. I appreciate Rainer's concerns about not wanting to act as censor. Quite where you draw the line on censorship and guidance is one each has to decide for him or herself. Would I intervene sooner? Probably. But it's not my site, and Rainer must and does make his own judgements and we have to respect that.
I don't think it has become one of the most terrible Meat sites Tim. I don't see the need though to see supporting Meat as some kind of competition. To be a Meat fan is to be enthusiastic and want to do positive things to support him, and each of us should be free to do as much of whatever we can without anyone having a pop at us or suggesting we do it for any other reason than we are fans and want to do things. As to postwhoring (a name which I personally dislike .. why not postpimping?) it doesn't have an appeal for me. I prefer to post when I have something to say, but much of it is contained in Off Topic now, and I guess I think it's important not to stamp on people's enthusiasm which is at the root I think of some of the posts you consider to be in this category.
If you leave I'll miss you, and I hope you don't. Yes, you can be a tough cursing old whotsit when you choose, but I enjoy your sense of fun :)
Tim, I just want to say a few things.
About postwhoring:
The people here are postwhoring on the off-topic board, sometimes a message on another board, but mostly on the off-topic board. That's the reason why there is such a board, just for fun, and sometimes serious topics.
Your comments on the buddy system:
You had in the past a problem with someone, you were not the only one, a few other mods also. With the buddy system you can ignore that person.
The lay-out:
My definition of use friendly is to find the things your are looking for on an easy way. I think that user-friendly has nothing to do with design. But that's my opinion. People are looking for information first and after that they are watching the whole site with the lay-out. The will also find the combo box to change the themes, so they can choose there "own" lay-out. I think that people will like that.
About respect:
I think people have respect for each other. Everybody can have a fight in the fight club, but that doesn't mean that they don't have respect for each other.
Tim,
You said once before you weren't coming back and changed your mind. I hope this time you will change your mind too. Like Caryl said: "If you leave I'll miss you, and I hope you don't. Yes, you can be a tough cursing old whotsit when you choose, but I enjoy your sense of fun"
Ok. You don't like the new layout. You've made that very clear. Well, the layout is not likely to change, and R. said "live with it" and you said you would. If you're really annoyed by it, you can always make a "snelkoppeling" (don't know the English word) straigt to the forum.
I think it IS user-friendly and by that I mean the same thing Michel does. I find it very easy to navigate.
About the forum: if there's one thing I hate, it's censorship. A forum where you have to check each post 10 times before posting, is no fun. And yes, there have been fights, and some people say things rude or blunt if they're angry, you've done that too and hey, we're all human, right? :wink: But I do feel there's respect for eachother in this group.
The buddy system discriminating and racist? Sorry, that's bull. I wouldn't use the ignore option unless I was really, really offended by someone and I can't see that happening in the future. But if it did: then it would be a good option, I could still feel at home here and not see any posts by that person.
Feeling at home... correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that part of the problem for you, Tim? You have been an member for a long time and felt right at home. And you saw the group change, more and more people joined. And now on top of that the layout changed as well. I can understand that. I know what that's like, that a group you really enjoy very much changes and you feel less at home. (I don't mean mlukfc, was an egroup) But nothing can be done about that, it's nobody's fault and can't be fixed. I could be way off base here, but think about it please.
Anyway, I hope you'll reconsider
Guppie
Maybe i'm wrong about this all, maybe i'm just a nobody or maybe i'm just insane... but i had to say this. I'm feeling so sorry that i'm not on the site anymore. Just due to the things that i've written here.
Tim,
i'm sorry that you are feeling this way and so unhappy with everything
but you are not nobody Tim and you are not insane.
You care about things,think much and feel strongly about things, but you are as entitled to your opinion as any one else is.
I would hate to see you go..but wether you go or stay that is your decision to make,you have to do what's right for you, whatever makes you happiest.....but from your above post i wouldn't say that staying away ismaking you happy.
I have no advice to give,Tim, and i'm not going to try... this is something you must sort out for yourself...your decision, your choice and i respect that.
Bren
And how many of the 30% have been your votes?
Forgive me, but i think that is unfair!!
... and felt right at home. And you saw the group change, more and more people joined. And now on top of that the layout changed as well. I can understand that. I know what that's like, that a group you really enjoy very much changes and you feel less at home.
Idon't know if that is how Tim feels....i have only been a member for a comparitively short while, but what you say is very true....the more changes, the less "at home" i feel
Bren[/quote]
Sorry Tim, I only joined a few months ago, but I have been a fan of Meat Loaf for year's. I have been to the 97 and 99 concert's. I have every album and video of Meat's. But I did not join just because Fireball appeared on this site. I didn't even know that Meat was Fireball, until I joined. Have you thought that a lot of people are new to the net. I don't post every day, I don't care if I am a postwhore or not. But if people enjoy posting on this site, it is their right too. It makes it fun to read what people think, It is also your right too, to give your views about the site's layout. Not a lot of people may like it, I do, but if you think there could be room for improvement, I suppose R would't be offended in letting him know. But I hope, along with many other's you don't leave, because I enjoy what you post too. :D
jcmoorehead
26 Oct 2003, 12:50
But now..... postwhoring is for some of us (i know, i also used to do it) a daily thing. It is not about opinions anymore, it is about saying nothing. It is about not respect each other, it is about fighting on someone or his/her words.
And postwhoring is what makes a forum community. Theres a differance between this and spam. Spam makes a forum community bad. Postwhoring makes it better. Theres a very thin borderline on these things.
Also... .beneath the avatar there are some buttons that you can "add" or "ignore" someone..... I will say... this is very racistic!!!! Respect people!
If someone spams the forums do you not expect them to become banned? If someone annoys you on MSN do you not block them? This isnt racist. This is there so you can ignore people who annoy you/spam the boards.
About the lay-out... i keep repeating myself... it is not user friendly. I know that.... why??? I'm a teacher in the art, and designing was a huge part of my education. I graduated at designing so.....
The thing is, this layout is highly user friendly. How do I know that? I've been making websites for 3 years now. Give me some credit. I've seen websites that are utter crap and then websites that use portal systems like this one. And portal systems were developed to make websites more userfriendly.
Okay, i will keep my mouth shut, rest in piece, say nothing more about it, zip my lips, lay my toung in rest, put my teeth to each other, don't think and just accept, go with the flow, be like anyone else here, click the button and quit, don't act foolish, accept the way, be a group member, don't have my own opinion, change myself, stop foolin' around, be a normal member, stop being larger than life and twice as loud....
well you got the point.
The ~~~~ing butcher
original sin
26 Oct 2003, 15:05
Tim
I don't think it's about not being able to have an opinion or any of that I really don't.
Look at things that have been discussed, a lot of things people have different opinions on things.
But I really believe that having a different opinion shouldn't mean we still don't get on and enjoy ourselves.
I know you feel things deeply and have been on rather a rollercoster in your life over recent months, but generally I have found you fun and amusing, as I've said before and I mean it when things get you down use your friends on this board to bounce feelings and thoughts off.
We will never all agree, thats a unattainable goal, what we need to have is a common bond, which we have, Meat Loaf. And a degree of respect for each other, which I think the majority have.
Some things we can change, some things we have to life with.
That's a story about King Canute who sat in front of the sea and commanded the tide not to come in..............well he didn't have much luck..........
No Tim, don't change too much .. you're more fun as Tim :) But perhaps accept what you can't change .. work with the changes even if you can't embrace them like a lover :) .. .. and still hold true to your opinions and beliefs, and express them. Have you read the Tao of Pooh? You might get a kick out of it .. particularly the chapter on Wu Wei :)
madonna123968848
26 Oct 2003, 15:36
Tim,
I think you may have "issues!" ... lol
Okay, i will keep my mouth shut, rest in piece, say nothing more about it, zip my lips, lay my toung in rest, put my teeth to each other, don't think and just accept, go with the flow, be like anyone else here, click the button and quit, don't act foolish, accept the way, be a group member, don't have my own opinion, change myself, stop foolin' around, be a normal member, stop being larger than life and twice as loud....
well you got the point.
The [...] butcher
Hey Tim,
The site layout changed, that doesn't mean YOU have to change :)
You just be you. :D
Tim nobody is asking you to stay quiet and go with the flow, in fact quite the opposite. People, myself included, seem to like reading your posts and your presence here has been missed.
I'm not sure what you mean by 'being like anyone else' and 'be a normal member'. There seems to be a range of opinions on this board and a wide range of characters.
I only joined relatively recently although I've been a Meat Loaf fan since about 1980. I only found the time to explore the internet and find this site during a 3 month period off work recovering from surgery. I don't come back because ML posts here, seems thats an infrequent event, but because I like reading what others post here (and from what they write I like these people, you included ) and because its good to be able to share my love of ML music with others.
Postwhoring, not a term I like but yes I do it...usually to unwind at the end of a long day at work...hey its better than watching TV.....and I think the Off Topic section is one of the strengths of this forum.
Tim your opinions here are valued, you are missed and I for one would be pleased if you came back.
HEY!!
i only joined l8r coz i just found this site n ive liked meat 4 agggggggggggeeeeeeeeeessssssssssss i duzn't make me n e less of a fan!! :evil: :x :evil: :x
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