Dead Ringer Revisited?

[03gills]

Hey all , i'm new to this site. Okay, i'll get right to it. does anyone think meat should re record dead ringer the album with jim steinman producing as i think he would give the songs the special quality that i think was kinda missin' from the original, but the album was still exellent , better than most in the eighties p.s is registration on this site free cuz it says my ACCOUNT has been activated that makes me think i hav to pay, Kinda worried about that!

[The Flying Mouse]

:twisted: Hi 03gills.
Welcome to the forums :up:
Personally, I think Dead Ringer is a kick ass album the way it is 8) .
I know a lot of people don't agree with me on this, but I thought Meat's voice was amazing on that album :up: I think that on the whole (album for album) the Dead Ringer album is the hardest to sing.Singing songs from the other albums is difficult enough, but singing songs like I'm Gonna Love Her For Both Of Us is like having surgery 8O

Gonna move this over to Tyre Tracks & Broken Hearts :wink:


(In reguards to forum membership, registration to the site is 100% free.Your account is just your identity on the forums.The activation e mail is a security measure to ensure that the e mail addy you suply is valid :wink: There are details on the home page of how to join the fan club "proper".Benefits include a fan club badge and subscription to the RVM newsletter (or should I say book :lol: ) which is produced bi monthly.It's well worth thinking about 8) .But that's a whole different thread :lol: You can always read threads in Site Feedback or ask new questions concerning membership there for more details :wink: )

[03gills]

Yeah dead ringer is quite a rockin album, probaly the most hard rock album meats done so far, actually it would probaly be brtter if they remastered the album like they did bat out of hell, you know like a sonic upgrade, what du think?

[PanicLord]

Yeah dead ringer is quite a rockin album, probaly the most hard rock album meats done so far, actually it would probaly be brtter if they remastered the album like they did bat out of hell, you know like a sonic upgrade, what du think?

I agree with you - it's my favourite Meat album, and I think it deserves a remaster to make it sound even better!

But please, no remixes :)

[The Flying Mouse]

:twisted: I just love the album the way it is 8) .
I think it would be very difficult to improve on.
I'm up for a remastered version, but NO, deffinatly NO REMIXES :lol:

I've heard a few good things about these new sound enhanced CD's.Don't know if my DVD player plays them but I would like to check them out 8)

Saying thay, first time I listened to Dead Ringer on vinyl (scratchy and hissy :lol: ) and I thought it was great :up: .I still listen to the old vinyl album sometimes.It's great, scratches, hiss and all :lol:

[03gills]

Totally agree with you there!!! and a remaster would underline some quality guitar work by davey johnstone ,infact if they remastered it, i think a lot of the great backing music that gets badly negleted because of the low quality of the cd would come out making the album in my view sound superior to bat out of hell, espesially those gorgeous LOUD drums!!

[Craig]

I say Dead Ringer is the best ML / JS album because it is the best collection of songs and has the most guitars on it. The difficulties there were in making it don't really show - although it would benefit from a re-master ( but not any attempt to re-record / re-mix ) on grounds of production quality. Meat's voice on it, whilst a bit raw in tone, has all the right notes and plenty of power.

If you want to show your support for Dead Ringer over at Jim Steinman's site Dream Pollution, you will find a little something called the Dead Ringer Justice League ;-) on the message board, which pushes for more recognition for this great album.

Craig

[PanicLord]

Can't wait to hear REAW and IGLHFBOU on the remaster - such beautiful songs!

[03gills]

I think i've come to a conclusion on this whole Dead Ringer debate, i've heard a lot of people say that dead ringer was a bad album because the production was bad, i say production has litlle or nothing to do with the albums reputation, or any album for that matter, in the end what makes an album exellent or poor is the SONGWRITING, production is just all bells and whisles. If Left In The Dark had the dead ringer production sound it would still be an exellent song because at the core the songwriting was exellent. Now when steinman wrote Dead Ringer he consiously set out to tone town the album so meats already damaged voice wouldn't be put at anymore risk, think about it, steinman essentially had to write a second sequel to bat out of hell that was more personalised less epic, if anything THAT's why the general public didn't flock to it as much as the first.Plus the timing for the album was all wrong. Even though everything seemed to be working against meatloaf and steinman they still managed to pull of a great album. although a remaster would be more likley (and on the most part prefered) dont rule out a dead ringer makeover just yet. I know it's been said before BUT FOR GOD's SAKE JIM, NO REMIXES!!! :twisted: :D :P

[Rob The Badger]

Dead Ringer. My favourite Meat album. It's great. But no remasters please.
And as for SACD, my opinion can be summed up with this:
http://www.cannanes.com/images/Back_to_mono.gif

[03gills]

i dont know anyone who actually owns a SACD player as for dead ringer being meats best album, i dont think so, nothing meat has done so far has ever really topped bat although i DO understand why meat thinks CSIB as good as bat, because its the only album apart from bat that meat didnt let the record company rush him on. P.S How many copies has CSIB sold so far?. I'm almost frightened to ask, cause the last time i checked it was 1 million, i certainly hope it increases, but it's still early day's really since CSIB hasnt been out that long, you never know, it could be a slow burning hit like bat was .

[Rob The Badger]

I don't understand how people can say CHIB is as good as Bat. It's just, clearly, not.

[dukesofhazard]

I got a SACD player! :twisted: Its cool. ALL of Meat's albums (except maybe MATLAF) should be released on this format (or DVD audio).

Totally agree that Dead Ringer should be remastered - I find that when I play Bat, Dead Ringer & Bat 2 on my hi-fi Dead Ringer is the quietest! Need them all to be loud - Especially Peel Out, I'm Gonna love her... etc.

In the build up towards Bat 3 I think that it would be a good idea for Dead Ringer etc to be remastered & re-released - Bat's been re-released enough times, so why not Dead Ringer too? It has the potential to sell being released after Meat's current tour & leading up to Bat 3.

Nice topic 03gills :wink:

[Michel]

You have a very good point, Duke. And maybe they can put a live version of Dead Ringer on it as an extra song.

[Alice]

My favourite album of Meat Loaf with my less favourite Meat song - Dead Ringer for Love. A paradox. But maybe it is because of Cher? I hate her singing there. If there is a re-record or re-mix, or something - better to put a version with Patti on it!

[03gills]

Yeah, i think they should re-record it with patti's vocals, that way jim stein could produce and make thta song sound great, i always thought of dead ringer for love the song as a mini 'paradise by the dashboard light'

[PanicLord]

I reckon the girly part could be done proud by Bonnie Tyler - how bout you?

[RSG]

Can't wait to hear REAW and IGLHFBOU on the remaster - such beautiful songs!

i agree very much so. its a great record. i don't care too much for "Nocturnal Pleasures" cause i don't understand it. i love CHSIB, most won't agree, but i love its unique sound. don't get me wrong, bat is just as good.

[rockfenris2005]

Nocturnal Pleasure is out of context with the album, because it's meant to be in NEVERLAND, and Bat and Bad For Good are the primary and principal concept albums for NEVERLAND. I've always thought, to some degree, that DEAD RINGER was a concept album of Jim's 70s musical MORE THAN YOU DESERVE. Strange, huh? I love DEAD RINGER. It's the most passionate recording EVER. However, and I'd love to critique all of the songs if I had the time: I feel PEEL OUT hasn't been done properly. It's meant to be a pounding, operatic number - very slow and intense. Not the upbeat, speedy-tempo it's at on the album. They got the production for this all wrong. I'M GONNA LOVE HER. How did Jim write this? It's miraculous. MORE THAN YOU DESERVE. Haha. Jim recycles the opening piano part for FUTURE AIN'T WHAT IT USED TO BE on PANDORA'S BOX. "I'll Kill You". The opening part is really dodgy - not very emotional - but when the glass shatters the window (perhaps a subconscious tribute to Billy Joel's "Glass Houses"? Meat and Billy ARE good friends). This song is amazing, after the glass shatters. That is, I believe, Jim's ultimate and THE ultimate ode to youthdom. READ 'EM AND WEEP. I've never heard the Manilow version. What's it like in comparison? DEAD RINGER FOR LOVE. Hahaha. Jim recycled the tune from his "Delta House" TV Theme. EVERYTHING IS PERMITTED. This is a spectacular song. I've always felt it would've done well in TANZ (for some reason) but, strangely, unlike all of Jim's songs (most of them belonging in NEVERLAND) this doesn't fit anywhere. Why was it written? Why is it on the album? What is the purpose of this song? I don't know. I don't care. It's just a wonderful finale. The next album, unfortunately, was the worst album of all time. Sorry, Fireball and midnight fans.

[PanicLord]

Don't worry Rock, you're not missing much by missing out on Barry Manilow singing Read Em and Weep. It's one of my favourite Meat songs, and Barry just destroys it. Yes, he hits all the notes. But he gives it no emotion, no soul, no drama.

It really is tragic :cry:

TRex goes and cries himself to sleep :wink:

[03gills]

When Jim Steinman wrote dead ringer he wanted it to be more mystic, and full of losts of visual imagery, but when Meat Loaf and Stephen Galphas produced it dead ringer sounded more like a hard rock album, which is great but i don't think the production fits the kind of songs jim had concieved. I know no-one agrees with me here but i think a reproduction of the album would be great, i'm not saying dead ringer is a bad album, i think it rocks but it would be nice to see how Jim Steinman's theatrical production would fit 'Ringer' :??: :idea:

[MjP2]

That is, I believe, Jim's ultimate and THE ultimate ode to youthdom. READ 'EM AND WEEP. I've never heard the Manilow version. What's it like in comparison?

I prefer Manilow's version (sorry to say, dodging for flying objects) but only due to it's better production. I think you should absolytely try and find it, Ryan.

MjP2

[Rob The Badger]

That is, I believe, Jim's ultimate and THE ultimate ode to youthdom. READ 'EM AND WEEP.
I think the ultimate ode to youthdom is quite possibly 'Loser' by Beck.
Or maybe Everything Louder's in for the running also.

[RSG]

Well I been listening to this record a lot, and no I don't think it should be re-done it is absolutely stunning the way it is!

[Bart]

the piano arrangements are great. One of the best, especially on I ll kill you if you don't come back
but

Peel out sucks. The intro is great but the song itself is not. I am gonna love her for both of us: the piano intro is too dark and too heavy. It should sound kinda like faster than the speed of night.
In fact the songs, the way they are composed and the way they have been produced is old fashioned. A song like Read em and Weep and I am gonna... are very old fashioned songs. But don't understand me wrong, i like this album a lot and many songs are excellent and again the piano arrangements are stunning and so are a lot of the lyrics and Meats voice is different but o so true!

[rockfenris2005]

I don't think it's humanly possibly to sing ANY of the songs from this album!

[Bart]

Its pure emotion. And like Jim said in the book (see your other topic) its a very intimate album. Not a real Steinman album. Well ofcourse it is. And Jimk has also produced 2 songs from it according to the innersleeve. and when i listen tot the arrangements Roy Bittan and Jim Steinman has also done the arrangements together and i think Galfas had discussed with Steinman a lot about producing this album and btw: who the hell is Stephen Galfas???