View Full Version : Can we have a community handbook?
Just wondering if anyone can come up with a community handbook (thanks Jules for the title lol). A kind of net etiquette on how to treat others stuff etc?
As someone who does contribute a lot of images and videos to the community I'm getting more than a little peeved at seeing mine and other peoples stuff here there and everywhere with no respect for who's they are or the effort that went into them. There are a good few of us that contribute a lot and I really think it's unfair that this happens.
so I was wondering if there's a way to lay some guidelines down? To explain to the newbies how to respect others stuff. Most of us older members do seem to work together and know what we can and can't do, but maybe the newbies just don't realise it's not right?
This has became increasingly worse since myspace and youtube have surfaced. And I for one wont be contributing my stuff to the community if this keeps up. And i'm sure i'm not alone here.
Deb
RadioMaster
19 Aug 2006, 21:08
Something like that exists already, sure it´s not especially for this forum but it´s kinda the thing you´re looking for.
Try to google for "Netiquette".
I'm aware of netiquette, but was looking more for specific guidelines for newbies, such as don't steal others graphics and use them on your site, don't download a video from anothers site and post it on youtube, don't us other peoples pictures etc.
deb
Personally I think this idea would be a good approach.
Obviously it wouldn;t necessarily be enforceabler as, for instance, the forum rules are but if people work with each other then it should work.
Sadly ome people just don;t realise that if they steal stuff within the community (and yes, reposting others photos/videos/stuff without permission is stealing) then people will stop sharing and everyone loses out. A situation that i am sure no one wants.
I gave google a go and didn't come up with much but heres a few things...
What is Netiquette, and how does it affect me?
How often have you heard the term netiquette, and wondered what it was? To put it bluntly, netiquette is the proper way to conduct yourself's on the net. Be it while in a irc chat room to a WWW chat, from using page graphics to sending e mail, netiquette is there. Read on to discover the proper way of dealing with WWW concerns.
TAKING THINGS WITHOUT PERMISSION
How would you like it if you spent a long time on creating a something - a picture, music file, or document - and once you had it just right, placed it on your page. A few weeks later, your surfing along, minding your own business, and all of a sudden.. BLAM!! You see what you made on someone else's page? Not nice, is it? You should ALWAYS ask for permission before taking anything from the web!
GIVE CREDIT WHERE CREDIT IS DUE
If you DO get permission from the owner, acknowledge it! Sometimes a simple credit will do; and sometimes you will be asked to provide a link on your page back to their page, so people know where you got that great material! If the owner says NO, please respect thier wishes. It is thiers afterall!
NEVER TAKE CREDIT FOR SOMETHING YOU DIDN'T MAKE!
You wouldn't like it someone did that to you, right? Besides, you would have a hard time explaining it to the person who created it, once they found out!
DON'T LINK TO SOMEONE'S FILES WITHOUT PERMISSION
This wastes bandwith, which really can clog the net down! When someone logs onto a site, if the pictures and stuff don't actually reside on that server and are linked elswhere, it can take forever to download. This also slows down the person who's site you've stolen this picture or whatever from. That's not very nice is it? So whenever you want to add something, make sure you put it on your server. Let's keep the web as fast as we can!
USING SOMEONE ELSE'S PAGE AS YOUR OWN
Don't do this! Again, how would you like it if you worked long and hard on a page, and someone stole the whole thing and took credit for it? The only time this is acceptable is if you have the web page owner's written consent - and DO get it in writing to protect yourself - and DO credit the creator!
Now, this may sound like alot of things to remember, but keep in mind, being a good netizen means treating others as you yourself want to be treated. If you follow these few guidelines, you'll have alot of fun, meet alot of good people, and make a few friends in the process!! Remember:
THE NET IS HERE FOR YOU TO HAVE FUN!!!
RadioMaster
19 Aug 2006, 22:48
Good find! Somebody should sticky that!
Sadly ome people just don;t realise that if they steal stuff within the community (and yes, reposting others photos/videos/stuff without permission is stealing) then people will stop sharing and everyone loses out. A situation that i am sure no one wants.
I think that many are very cautious of what they do post and where they post because of the attitude towards others work. It seems as if creating a website consisting of pics, mp3s, graphics and videos nicked from other sites has become a problem of late. Because of that many are beginning to use strategically placed watermarks on everything they upload and some even downgrade the quality to discourage stealing. Also, years ago one had to scan photos one at a time and not just download a digital file to post a picture. That was a time consuming process.
All it takes to fix this problem is a simple email or pm asking the author for permission and an offer of credit. It seems that was an unwritten rule for years until recently. Please if you "helped yourself" don't take this as an insult, I am just offering advice.
I think another rule of thumb to consider is please do not post or pass on any privately obtained information, such as the pay area of .net or pm's on other messageboards, myspace pages, or youtube. We are lucky this information is shared with us and don't want to lose this opportunity.
Jules :cool:
Pudding
20 Aug 2006, 04:07
It seems as if creating a website consisting of pics, mp3s, graphics and videos nicked from other sites has become a problem of late. Because of that many are beginning to use strategically placed watermarks on everything they upload and some even downgrade the quality to discourage stealing.
There's definitely a bunch of thieving f*ckers out there.
Saying that though, at what point does something that's publically available become private property? surely there's some sort of copyright enfringement claiming something that isn't yours as your own.
Take for example the recent IACBTMN video. That became publically available, then it was put on youtube, then you get some morons thanking the person for putting it on youtube, when all they did was take it from someone else.
I think giving due credit is probably the way to go.
Pud :twisted:
sunneke
20 Aug 2006, 10:12
Well i think the problem is that i'm not really sure when i steal something... oke its clear that when someone post his or her selfmade foto's here, you don't use it without asking!!!!!! But sometimes i do upload photo's from sites, and use them as a avator. And i really don't know if í am stealing at that point. I have this avator, wich is from Kasim's site.... i want to make a t-shirt of that, but i have asked Kasim if thats oke! And i must say that everyone who post not selfmade photo's, gets those photo's from someone else, and i am wondering if they all have asked first! So i am not sure when í am steeling.... maybe its good to tell me, because i don't want to do things i am not allowed to!!!!!!!!!
There's definitely a bunch of thieving f*ckers out there.
Saying that though, at what point does something that's publically available become private property? surely there's some sort of copyright enfringement claiming something that isn't yours as your own.
Take for example the recent IACBTMN video. That became publically available, then it was put on youtube, then you get some morons thanking the person for putting it on youtube, when all they did was take it from someone else.
I think giving due credit is probably the way to go.
Pud :twisted:
I get what you're saying, but a lot of times these videos aren't publicly available and someones had to find a way to rip / download / rerecord it. So others can download them rather than just watch them. I'm not just meaning me here, but others as well. Most stuff out there wouldn't be there if it wasn't for a few fans who do this for the rest. Most have even had to buy special equipment and / or programmes to do this. So where they don't actually own the copyright, they have gone to a lot of trouble to make the videos available for the rest of us. So I do think youtube or similar is very disrespectful.
Sometimes its taken me hrs / days to find a way to do something so I can share what others don't have. To find it on youtube or somewhere else with no thanx or anything, does pee me off. I'm not the only one this is happening to. Infact theres a couple of people who it's happening to a lot lately. If I were them I'd be fumimg. I just think we should all be greatful for what others share and not re-upload it to somewhere else as their own.
At the end of the day, I can't stop anyone doing anything with the stuff, allI know is I wont be wasting my precious time and money doint things for a community that will do that to someone. I'll just watch a show from now on without having to worry about getting good pictures for those who aren't there :-) And i'll even be able to sing and enjoy the show :-D
so yep, credit is the key and to not re upload them.
Deb
Well i think the problem is that i'm not really sure when i steal something... oke its clear that when someone post his or her selfmade foto's here, you don't use it without asking!!!!!! But sometimes i do upload photo's from sites, and use them as a avator. And i really don't know if í am stealing at that point. I have this avator, wich is from Kasim's site.... i want to make a t-shirt of that, but i have asked Kasim if thats oke! And i must say that everyone who post not selfmade photo's, gets those photo's from someone else, and i am wondering if they all have asked first! So i am not sure when í am steeling.... maybe its good to tell me, because i don't want to do things i am not allowed to!!!!!!!!!
I understand that people dont always know, which Is why I thought we could all do with a community handbook of some sort :-) The few guidlines I found earlier help.
Yes I would say if you took someones "personal" pics from their site even to use as an avator then that would still be stealing. A lot of people have avators with my pics, but I've made them for them, or they've asked me.
At least you want to know if you're stealing :-) Thats a very good start here lol.
Deb
Pudding
20 Aug 2006, 11:45
I'll just watch a show from now on without having to worry about getting good pictures for those who aren't there :-)
Now someone personally taking a picture at a show and then other people stealing them for their own site or whatever is completely out of order, and I can understand the grievance in that.
Pud :twisted:
sunneke
20 Aug 2006, 12:05
oke i will choose a different avator, thats better i guess ;) But still want to know ... on this forum there are also photo's from Meat, but not made by the people who post them, so....... thats not allowed eather without asking permission???? I mean where is the line??????
Now someone personally taking a picture at a show and then other people stealing them for their own site or whatever is completely out of order, and I can understand the grievance in that.
Pud :twisted:
That's fair enough if people think that way, that's their choice. But I for one wont be wasting my time on converting all my old vhs to a computer format just for others to steal and use elsewhere.
If we all feel like this there wont be much left for people to steal. As theres not many of us with the original stuff to share from vhs.
I also have 2 very rare recordings that thankfully I've had the sense to not share publicly for this very reason. One being the Virgin London bus event.
Another thing... As some may know I lost my hard drive recently, which was full of all my Meat Loaf stuff I have ripped from vhs etc over the yrs and shared with the Meat community.180gb to be precise. I can count on one hand how many people have offered to send me any of that back. Yet tons downloaded it without a thank you. The one person who's been the kindest in helping me is actually a steinfan! Now if that doesn't make you not wanna share anymore I don't know what does.
Deb
oke i will choose a different avator, thats better i guess ;) But still want to know ... on this forum there are also photo's from Meat, but not made by the people who post them, so....... thats not allowed eather without asking permission???? I mean where is the line??????
I dont think your old avator was stealing if it was from Kasim. I'm sure the band and Meat are ok? Otherwise that'd be to hard. I really mean fans own work here. Just a bit of respect for those that share thats all :-)
daveake
20 Aug 2006, 12:39
Well i think the problem is that i'm not really sure when i steal something...
I think the problem is that most people don't even think about that. There seems to be a notion these days that if something is on the web then it's free for use. The legal truth is the opposite - anything new is copyrighted automatically the moment it is created. So if (for example) Deb posts a pic she took of Meat, that photo is copyrighted (the moment she took it) and it is illegal to copy it without permission.
So in answer to your question, unless you know otherwise you are stealing.
In practice though, most people will be happy to allow copying so long as you ask first. What pisses people off is not asking. What pisses people off more (well, pisses me off more) is people hot-linking without asking. The myspace generation seem to think it's perfectly OK to hot-link to anyone's photo they like. I used to think some of the photos on my server were awfully popular till I noticed that a handful of jerks were lazily hot-linking to them. This steals my server bandwidth as well as my copyright, and (in extremis) could cost me money if my bandwidth quota is exceeded. If these people would bother to ask, and would then bother to copy the photos rather than link to them, I'd be glad to assist.
One guy hopefully got a nasty surprise when he found that the nice photo of a penguin he linked to had been replaced by something that made it very clear what I thought of him ...
The number of freeloaders is probably 100x the number of people that provide things to share. If the freeloaders piss off the producers, that ratio will get worse and the amount of shared material will drop, to everyone's disadvantage.
Dave
Another very good reason to not steal peoples videos and add to youtube is this:
http://members.boardhost.com/rockman/msg/1155941919.html
:evil:
I rest my case
RadioMaster
20 Aug 2006, 13:40
I´m very confused now...
So that what I´m doing in the countdown thread, and that what many perople are doing in the girls/boys threads...
Is that good or bad?:confused:
...
No idea about the countdown thread, but I do know for many yrs now, people who do contribute their pics to the community arent happy about them ending up in one for the girls. I personally dont mind this one as much. Although a few very personal pics I do. It's more the youtube thing thats got to me at the moment.
Deb
That is what makes it so difficult, Radiomaster. Pics posted there that way is usually not a problem to most owners, but yes, in fact you should call even that stealing.
Guess the main issue here is putting it on your own website (not this mlukfc, where you found the picture), and not mentioning any credit and asking for permission.
RadioMaster
20 Aug 2006, 13:55
Maybe a stupid question:
If you hotlink to a picture, the the credit or copyright is already done, or not? You can see the link where the pic´s from...
What should I do now...?
daveake
20 Aug 2006, 14:07
Maybe a stupid question:
If you hotlink to a picture, the the credit or copyright is already done, or not? You can see the link where the pic´s from...
What should I do now...?
Copyright still applies. The main problem however with hot-linking is that it steals bandwidth.
I don't think anyone's bothered about short-term hot-linking from a forum message, but hot-linking from a web site is just plain rude.
Transgressors should be shot. IMO :evil:
Dave
Credit is, but did you ask the original poster for permission?
What both Deb and Jules refer to; over here usually it is enough to mention the person who originally posted/owns the copyright. However, when you want to post it on any other website, you should specifically ask permission.
Correct me if I am wrong here, D and J!
Maybe an idea if any of you explains hot linking and what actually should be the way of posting it (to avoid using the bandwidth)?
You're right Ankie :-) I'm not to bothered about things being copied here from one forum or another that i've posted in. Although, I can't speak for others on that one.
I think what i'm having the most problem with at the moment is the total disrespect for someones work. Which has became huge with youtube. Vicki and Eva are probably the two most affected by this at the moment.
Deb
Maybe an idea if any of you explains hot linking and what actually should be the way of posting it (to avoid using the bandwidth)?
Only problem with this is, if people don't hotlink, the only other option they have to share the vids / pics etc they want to take is to reupload them to another storage space. Which is whats happening with the likes of youtube, myspace, fotobucket or what ever its called to name but a few. When someone does this all credit usually goes completely. Apart from those pics that some of us have had to resize and watermark to make them less easy to steal. All of which takes a hell of a lot of time. At least with hotlinking as radiomaster said, you can tell who's it is lol.
Another option with videos, is to have to put a watermark on those. which also is time consuming and hard.
it's sad that some have to resort to doing this extra work to stop others stealing :-(
Deb
daveake
20 Aug 2006, 14:28
Maybe an idea if any of you explains hot linking and what actually should be the way of posting it (to avoid using the bandwidth)?
Sure. To get an image on a forum or website that image needs to be somewhere. Your options are:
1 - Upload to the forum or website
2 - Upload to somewhere else (e.g. photobucket) and link to that
3 - Link directly to wherever you found the image (this is hot-linking)
#3 is the problem. It's also the easiest to do. People do it because it's easy and/or they don't understand what's wrong with it.
What happens with hot-linking is that when the image is viewed the browser goes to the original web site that holds the image and gets it from there. So a page of messages on this forum is very often made up of images from lots of different web sites. This slows down the loading of the page (a bit, since your PC has to look up the address of each web site holding an image) and also puts the original web site servers to work to get the image for you.
Everyone who runs a web site gets a certain amount of bandwidth (a certain amount of data that can be uploaded and/or downloaded per month). When that limit is exceeded they either get charged more money or, if it's a free site, the site gets closed down till the end of the month. Neither option is good. This is why web site owners get hacked off that their bandwidth is being stolen.
Dave
Pudding
20 Aug 2006, 14:47
The one person who's been the kindest in helping me is actually a steinfan! Now if that doesn't make you not wanna share anymore I don't know what does.
A Steinfan being kind and sharing :shock: WTF? when did this happen? :faint:
Pud :twisted:
daveake
20 Aug 2006, 14:48
A Steinfan being kind and sharing :shock: WTF? when did this happen? :faint:
Pud :twisted:
Yeah, I've been feeling kinda strange lately. Normal (lack of) service will be resumed as soon as possible :twisted:
lol, Yes the kind Steinfan is Dave :D
We will add something to the forum rules with some explanations and a link to this thread, but I don't think it will really help.
Thank you R, much appreciated :-)
Yeah, just give me some time to check the 5000 posts that piled up during my short vacation. :tard:
sunneke
20 Aug 2006, 16:44
Oke, my english is not always so good that i understand everything you guys write down.
If i am correct: you ask permission to use peoples personal photo's, films what ever to use on youre website, you tube or anything like that
I may use photo's from Kasim's site as an avator... well here i miss something: the avator that i had, was Kasims personall photo. I did not ask for permission to use it as an avator, so i stole... i think? i did ask permession to use that photo for a t-shirt for personal use.
Photo's post here who are not personal from Meat, you don't need to ask permission :??: :??: well i lost it here, so i would be really happy if this handbook will be made. Because i really dont want to hurt anyone's feelings.
Lol when you put it like that it is confusing :-)
All I can say is I don't want any of my videos ending up on youtube full stop :-)
So yep, I think we def need a handbook of some sorts. In easy to understand format as well lol
Deb
Sunneke, feel free to ask about all this in dutch ;)
sunneke
20 Aug 2006, 20:32
thank you Ankie, perhaps you can translate the rules for me? i would be very glad to know how it works
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