in the land of the pig - lyrics

[RadioMaster]

I absolutely dont get the LOTP lyrics

who are THEY? and who are WE?

Anybody knows the context? AFAIK it´s from the Batman musical, right?

:confused:

[DazLoaf01]

It's to do with the Gotham currupt policeforce I thought? "pig" being a slang term for the police - I'm unsure if that is used anywhere else in the world other than England lol.

[duke knooby]

thats correct rj, you can read about it in jims blog. "pig is written to be the song of the corrupt bloodsuckers who run gotham city" it goes on... july 9th entry.

[Jeanie]

I thought "they" refered to the government/establishment and "we" are the pigs, at the mercy of the "they.. the butcher/ government/establishment". Just my inturpetation of the song. :)

J.

[Pudding]

The term pig in this song has nothing at all to do with the police.

The song is sung by the 'power(s) that be' about the minions(people) who basically walk around with their head up their ass, who do as they're told and are easily fooled.

The easiest way to explain it is, if you imagine Kim Jong Il (leader of North Korea) as the butcher and the ordinary North Koreans as pigs.

Pud :twisted:

[RadioMaster]

so they (their lives are truly meaningless) are the pig and we (are busy being blessed with all that we can take and pocket) are the butchers?

so, we slaughter them? (cant you hear the slaughterhousebells)

If I´m not wrong, then "the chosen one" (cant you hear the cosen one sing) would be Batman, right?

[Heli]

You're all wrong.....:shock:

...it's about a little kid playing with his pork dinner, and pretending to be all high and mighty, while his little chippolarter sausages are the people of his mash and gravy city....god as if you didn't know that...:roll:





:p

[RadioMaster]

:lol::up:

well, another......interpretation...:))

[Heli]

:lol::up:

well, another......interpretation...:))

Lol i was joking love!

[mszee]

Have another question...is it me or the title of the song is somehow garbled...it clearly sounds PIGS not PIG in the song...and if it is a singular pig the entire thing doesn't make sense

[RadioMaster]

the song is definitely called pig, but Meat sings pigs (it´s also in the booklet spelt as pigs):confused:
On the other hand.....on Jim´s demo, he sings clearly Land of the PIG........

[needmoremeat]

Jim said on his blog it was meant to be Pig singular, but Meat sings it Pigs.
Just think of that as like AFL. On the disc the title is "I'd Do Anything For Love" but he never sings "I'd", it's always "I would".:-)
That's my take on it, anyway!:lol:

[KebLou]

Jim said on his blog it was meant to be Pig singular, but Meat sings it Pigs.
Just think of that as like AFL. On the disc the title is "I'd Do Anything For Love" but he never sings "I'd", it's always "I would".:-)
That's my take on it, anyway!:lol:

I'd and I would is slightly different both versions have the same meaning. Changing something from singular to plural changes the meaning.

[Bap]

Not neccaserially (SP?). If Pig is a metaphor for everyday people of Gotham city then that is is rounding up a collective of persons whom are being sterotyped.. So either Pigs or Pig can be used and mean the exact same thing.

[needmoremeat]

I'd and I would is slightly different both versions have the same meaning. Changing something from singular to plural changes the meaning.

I know, I just wanted to draw attention to the fact that it's not the first time there's been something different on the song listing as to what is actually sung, nothing deeper than that;)

[jcmoorehead]

Jim said on his Blog it was meant to be Land Of The Pig in a similar fashion to Year Of The Dragon or something like that. The theme of the song reminds me of the Pink Floyd album Animals. However they used Sheep, Pigs and Dogs as Metaphors.

[Pudding]

I had this explain to me fully in a pub once by a teacher, and in short, it can be either Pig or Pigs, but Jim wrote the song as 'Pig'

Pud :twisted:

[mszee]

I had this explain to me fully in a pub once by a teacher, and in short, it can be either Pig or Pigs, but Jim wrote the song as 'Pig'

Pud :twisted:

Thanks...I trust your knowledge...

[christa]

I actually find this song quite offensive. Being a strict vegetarian its a bit below the belt for me! Sorry if i have offended anyone but thats just my opinion.

[Peestie]

""In the Land of the PigS" is NOT SCARY! It connotes a bunch of pigs, even a nation of pigs! BUT--"LAND OF THE PIG" connotes ONE MYTHICALLY HUGE ICONIC ALL CONSUMING PIG! A SYMBOL OF ALL!!! IT IS SCARY! Scary to be "in the land of the pig." Not so scary to be in "the land of the pigs." Rather than go on about it, I KNOW its right. And it makes "THE BUTCHER IS KING" infinitely more frightening!"

That's from Steinman's blog.
So from that I take that it's not about the people being the "pigs", but that the leaders/gouvernment are "the Pig". But who is the butcher then? I'll have to go over these lyrics in more detail myself, some time...

[Pudding]

I actually find this song quite offensive. Being a strict vegetarian its a bit below the belt for me! Sorry if i have offended anyone but thats just my opinion.

Do you find the name Meat Loaf offensive as well then? or have you scribbled out the name Meat from all your CD's and replaced it with Quorn?

Hmmm Quorn Loaf has a bit of a ring to it :lmao:

Pud :twisted:

[mszee]

Do you find the name Meat Loaf offensive as well then? or have you scribbled out the name Meat from all your CD's and replaced it with Quorn?

Hmmm Quorn Loaf has a bit of a ring to it :lmao:

Pud :twisted:

And finally it's my turn...CHSIB!!!

[rachelba]

If Meat did change his name to Quorn Loaf then at least the interviewers would have to come up with a fresh "funny" question instead of "Why do you call yourself Meat Loaf when you're a veggie?" !!!!!!!!!!!
By the way am I the only one who has difficulty reading the lyric from the CD book! I've put on my reading specs and still have to use a magnifying glass!!

[christa]

The fact that Meat Loaf is a veggie says it all.

What I find offensive Pud, is the pigs squealing at the end. Is that ok with you?

Oh and by the way, I don't eat Quorn either but I do love my Meat Loaf.

[RadioMaster]

according to a recent interview Meat isnt a vegetarian, he was for several years but for about 10 years not more.

[christa]

Well whatever his eating habits are (and I aint getting into a debate about it) He has the freedom to choose just like me and everyone else on here.

[Pudding]

What I find offensive Pud, is the pigs squealing at the end. Is that ok with you?

Pigs are squealing at the end, because that's what pigs do, they squeal. Had you heard a cleaver hitting a block of wood and the squealing suddenly stop, I could see your point that it might be offensive, but that isn't what happens.

However, I think the song would make for a great music video with Meat as the butcher, with all these little piggies running around and Meat having a cleaver in his hand still dripping with blood.

http://deoxy.org/gif/butcher.jpg

Pud :twisted:

[Paul191]

Do you find the name Meat Loaf offensive as well then? or have you scribbled out the name Meat from all your CD's and replaced it with Quorn?

Hmmm Quorn Loaf has a bit of a ring to it :lmao:

Pud :twisted:

:lmao:


However, I think the song would make for a great music video with Meat as the butcher, with all these little piggies running around and Meat having a cleaver in his hand still dripping with blood.
Pud :twisted:

I actually think that would make a great video...... Just a shame I don't think the song is 'single' quality.

[mszee]

Am I the only one that sees allegory in this song???

The song isn't either about real butcher or real pigs as far as I am concerned???

Can I be THAT wrong???

[duke knooby]

songs top notch, a real attention grabber, make a great single, i reckon

[mszee]

songs top notch, a real attention grabber, make a great single, i reckon

It is a great song...but we're talking about lyrics in it...I think???

[Pudding]

Am I the only one that sees allegory in this song???

The song isn't either about real butcher or real pigs as far as I am concerned???

Can I be THAT wrong???

No your not wrong, you're very much correct. But if by some minor miracle this song is released as a single, then you need the butcher to be a butcher and the pigs to be pigs, or you do at the end so people can understand the meaning of the song.

Pud :twisted:

[mszee]

No your not wrong, you're very much correct. But if by some minor miracle this song is released as a single, then you need the butcher to be a butcher and the pigs to be pigs, or you do at the end so people can understand the meaning of the song.

Pud :twisted:

It would have made a GREAT video...regardless...of HOW the video is made...this song is a WEALTH of material for any kind of video...one can only use their imagination...hell...there is enough material in this song for 10 different videos.

However...having video for this song just might be a miracle...not holding my breath...but hey...HOPING...

[RadioMaster]

call me stupid, but I still dont really get the meaning of the song

[The Flying Mouse]

:twisted: OK I can see this thread going a little incy wincy bit into the relmes of whatthehellisthethreadaboutment :wtf: .

Onr thing i've always liked about art (especially music), is that you take out what you put in.

OK, the artist might have a vision, and write a very particular image or subject.

But take that out of it's context and it's free game.

You can interprate the song however the hell you want.


OK, this comes from Batman, but Batman doesn't actually exist, it never happened, so it's not BOUND to be stuck with the same meaning.


The Pig Vs. Pigs thing.

I prefare PigS.

I know Pig can be plaural, but the "S" takes away the uncertainty of the meaning.

To me it's a song of how the few control the many. Land of PIG, BUTCHER is king, sounds a little too one on one.The S really emphisises the masses to me much more than "Pig" which if taken as plaural, still doesn't convey the MASSES of pigs.Pig sounds like two or three pigs instead of thousands of the things.


About the veggie convo, hay we're all allowed our opinions, but please try not to turn the subject into a convo on the morals of eating meat.

I used to like the song "Where The Wild Roses Grow" by Nick Cave and Kylie Minogue (SO shameful I have a Kylie single at home, it's a guilty pleasure :oops: ) but that doesn't mean I endorce taking your main squeeze out to a river bank and giving her a tap on the noggin with a bloody big rock.


The song is a metophore.The term Butchers and Pigs are used to show how much contept the Few (who are singing the song) to the masses.

It's not a song saying, hey i'm hungry, let's go waste some animals.

It's a fat cat song.

Especially the words "the chosen ones", because they DO feel chosen.They believe themselves to be special and above mans law, because they pretty much are.

It is only those people who really matter, we are all pigs that they will slaughter with all the emotion of a butcher if it serves their purpose.

The squeeling doesn't bother me at all.

Tell me that Desmond Child put on his wellies, went to the slaughterhouse with a tape recorder to tape the sound of pigs being killed, and i'll think that's pretty nasty, but pigs do tend to squeel.It's what they do :shock:

[The Flying Mouse]

No your not wrong, you're very much correct. But if by some minor miracle this song is released as a single, then you need the butcher to be a butcher and the pigs to be pigs, or you do at the end so people can understand the meaning of the song.

Pud :twisted:

:twisted: I disagree Pud.

I don't think the general public are so dumb they can't understand a simple metophore.

In fact, the song would be completly LOST using pics of pigs and butchers, because it would then TRULLY be a song about the butchering trade :wtf:

[mszee]

call me stupid, but I still dont really get the meaning of the song

RJ...I think Neil pretty much covered it...if it's still not clear...disregard pigs and butchers...think common masses, government/rulers and society in general...and you will see it all sooner or later....

[MeatGrl1]

I don't think just listen!
Love this song and I don't pick it apart.
Neil sums the song up pretty well I think :up:.

[mszee]

I don't think just listen!
Love this song and I don't pick it apart.
Neil sums the song up pretty well I think :up:.

I disagree...sometimes you have to listen AND think...not necessarily at the same time...but thinking is really good for a person...

And how do you think Neil came to his conclusions anyway to be able to sum it up so well?

And if you didn't think about this song...how do you know he, in fact, is right??? :shock:

[needmoremeat]

The song reminds me of Animal Farm, which is weird I know because the pigs aren't the ones doing the ruling. Unless of course King is meant like it is in England where he has no proper power and just greets foreign diplomats, opens hospitals etc and waves and so on while the pigs are the government doing the ruling........
But I know that's not what it means!







AAAARRRRGGGGHHHHHH!
:panic:

[The Flying Mouse]

:twisted: If you don't think, you'll never find your own meaning to songs.


Back yo the vid, i've just been having thoughts on the matter.


First idea was that it would show a busy city.

Rush hour.

People rushing round the streets.

Then, to tie the image to the metophore, the crowd of people could turn into a crowd of pigs for a second, then change back into people.


Then I had a second idea, that I MUCH prefare.

Same sort of idea, people rushing about, but you can see their reflections in shop/car windows, mirrors, and even drinking glasses, and the reflections are those of pigs.

Don't know if this particular little snippit would work outside England, but imagine a guy in a pub, he starts to take a good healthy swig of his pint.

The camera looks at the bottom of the glass (from the inside) and the reflection at the bottom of the glass in a pigs face drinking the beer from the glass :idea:

For the butchers, you could have a board room for instance.

Very clean, very tidy.

At the head of the table is a man making a presentation to all the other buisnessmen sitting around the table.

The man standing is wearing an impossibly smart blue double brested suit.

On the wall of the boardroom there is a mirror, and the reflection of the boardroom is shown as a very dark room, with chains hanging from the ceiling.

it's a frightening room from a nightmare.

The highly polished mahogany table is substituted to a rough thick, basic but functional work table.

Around this table, the men in buisness suits are transformed to fat, scary, dirty looking men in blood caked aprons.

As the speaker says something they approve of, the butchers show appreciation by hamering the table with the handles of their long knives.

As the camera pans round back into the "real world" the buisnessmen are shown sitting in their smart suits polietly aplauding.




If the people ain't gonna get the metophore, make it easy for them :lol:

[mszee]

The song reminds me of Animal Farm, which is weird I know because the pigs aren't the ones doing the ruling. Unless of course King is meant like it is in England where he has no proper power and just greets foreign diplomats, opens hospitals etc and waves and so on while the pigs are the government doing the ruling........
But I know that's not what it means!







AAAARRRRGGGGHHHHHH!
:panic:


Interesting take...you're not THAT FAR OFF...the song does have something of George Orwell in it...hmmm....

[mszee]

:twisted: If you don't think, you'll never find your own meaning to songs.


Back yo the vid, i've just been having thoughts on the matter.


First idea was that it would show a busy city.

Rush hour.

People rushing round the streets.

Then, to tie the image to the metophore, the crowd of people could turn into a crowd of pigs for a second, then change back into people.


Then I had a second idea, that I MUCH prefare.

Same sort of idea, people rushing about, but you can see their reflections in shop/car windows, mirrors, and even drinking glasses, and the reflections are those of pigs.

Don't know if this particular little snippit would work outside England, but imagine a guy in a pub, he starts to take a good healthy swig of his pint.

The camera looks at the bottom of the glass (from the inside) and the reflection at the bottom of the glass in a pigs face drinking the beer from the glass :idea:

For the butchers, you could have a board room for instance.

Very clean, very tidy.

At the head of the table is a man making a presentation to all the other buisnessmen sitting around the table.

The man standing is wearing an impossibly smart blue double brested suit.

On the wall of the boardroom there is a mirror, and the reflection of the boardroom is shown as a very dark room, with chains hanging from the ceiling.

it's a frightening room from a nightmare.

The highly polished mahogany table is substituted to a rough thick, basic but functional work table.

Around this table, the men in buisness suits are transformed to fat, scary, dirty looking men in blood caked aprons.

As the speaker says something they approve of, the butchers show appreciation by hamering the table with the handles of their long knives.

As the camera pans round back into the "real world" the buisnessmen are shown sitting in their smart suits polietly aplauding.




If the people ain't gonna get the metophore, make it easy for them :lol:

And the Oscar for the best screenplay goes to...

No, seriously...this is VERY good...LOVE it...

[The Flying Mouse]

The song reminds me of Animal Farm, which is weird I know because the pigs aren't the ones doing the ruling. Unless of course King is meant like it is in England where he has no proper power and just greets foreign diplomats, opens hospitals etc and waves and so on while the pigs are the government doing the ruling........
But I know that's not what it means!







AAAARRRRGGGGHHHHHH!
:panic:


:twisted: The comarisons to Animal Farm (we're talking George Orwell people, careful where you take this convo :wtf: :lol: ) are obvious.

The mere mention of "pigs" is enough to bring the book to mind, even though in the song the pigs are actually the persecuted and not the rulers.

The song still has EXACTLY the same meaning though.

The few control the many, and the many will allow them to do so.

Only the identity of who is ruling is different.

[RadioMaster]

that was my thought too (the Orwell thing). I see also a little similarity too HG Wells´ time machine, forgot the names of the groups but, where these underworld people are living from slaughtering the ones above them.


As for the fact that I still dont get it:
It´s not the metaphore I dont get it are single lines of the song that dont fit in the metaphoric background IMO.
Havent got one in my mind right now, have to listen to the song again.

[needmoremeat]

Interesting take...you're not THAT FAR OFF...the song does have something of George Orwell in it...hmmm....

There was a movie made of Animal Farm a schoolfriend told me about a while ago, all star cast voicing, Kelsey Grammer as Snowball etc.
http://www.us.imdb.com/title/tt0204824/
I later found it in The Works shop for £1.50 or something, and in it is a scene where the animals are singing in homage to Napoleon, it's sort of like when you see pictures of China or North Korea in the news with all the marching soldiers passing underneath their leader. It just puts me in mind of
Can't you hear the choir now?
Listen to the animals (anthems we) sing.
It's literal in that way that the animals are singing, yet it seems to invite both admiration yet scorn on the whole scene, poignance even. They're singing for us because we're great. But you shouldn't be singing for them, they're not great! My goodness, this is hard to explain! If I can find a more coherent way of expressing it, I'll post again!

On a simpler note
Can't you hear the slaughterhouse bells
makes me think of the slaughterhouse bells ringing for poor Boxer.:cry:

I want to read Animal Farm again now!:lol:

[RadioMaster]

the more I think about it the more I like the idea of an inspiration by Animal Farm.
All in all it´s the same essence, the same moral, the same vision that speaks out of both, the song and the book/film.

[needmoremeat]

So...
Is this our first song from Jim with a political underlining?
I know it's from a musical, so a side has to be taken and the story looked at from their POV regardless of political inclinations, but...does anyone see what I mean?

[mszee]

So...
Is this our first song from Jim with a political underlining?
I know it's from a musical, so a side has to be taken and the story looked at from their POV regardless of political inclinations, but...does anyone see what I mean?

Batman is a comic with a lot of political undercurrents/story lines...most of them DARK...can't ignore them.

[Pudding]

:twisted: I disagree Pud.

I don't think the general public are so dumb they can't understand a simple metophore.

In fact, the song would be completly LOST using pics of pigs and butchers, because it would then TRULLY be a song about the butchering trade :wtf:

You're entitled to disagree, but if the metophore of the song wouldn't be lost on the general public, why are there quite a few people here, who I assume know Meat Loaf and know Steinman, struggling to find a meaning of the song? Surely the general public can't be more in tune with Meat Loaf than Meat Loafs fans?

The vision I have for the video, will and has got lost in translation, which is understandable since it's very difficult to fully explain your thoughts on a forum. I'd only use Meat as a butcher and the piggies running around at the very end, to show that a butcher does indeed have the power over life and death. For the rest of the video I'd show humdrum people doing humdrum things in an humdrum existance in various scenarios, to show people do do as they're told and who's lifes are truly meaningless, as it says in the lyrics.

Pud :twisted:

[Peestie]

that was my thought too (the Orwell thing). I see also a little similarity too HG Wells´ time machine, forgot the names of the groups but, where these underworld people are living from slaughtering the ones above them.


Morlocks, if I remember right. (Awesome book)

[RadioMaster]

yeah right! very god book, crappy films although the 200x one is better than the one from the 60/70s

[Paul191]

I think another good idea would be to have a propaganda type video. The whole five minute video could be based around the fascist reign of H I T L E R or some communist leader such as Joseph Stalin. The dictator being the Butcher and the ordinary civilians being the Pigs. I also think some visual images of pigs and butchers could be used to really bring across the metaphor. One of the best influences for the idea came from the following picture which I used as one of the centre peice for my art investigation............ I'm also a young historian which is why I love the whole idea.:D

http://www.towson.edu/heartfield/images/Goering.jpg

[Pudding]

I really like that idea Paul, that would work well I think, especially in the present day political climate and maybe just have a butcher with piggies running around at the very end.

Pud :twisted:

[Edit]

Bit 1984 and Animal farm at the same time