The truth about chatrooms.

[The Flying Mouse]

:twisted: I saw this video recently from a link from another forum i'm a member of.

I wanted to post it here, as I believe it's a very well scripted and acted piece, that is thought provocing and worthy of discussion.


The premise of the movie is a metophorical chat room.
Although we see the characters for what they really are, the characters themselves only know the things they have been told by the other members.

As you can see, most of this is extreamly inacurate to say the least.


There is a moderate ammount of bad language, and sexual references, so if libel to be offended, or of an age where it is inapropiate for you to see this, please do not view.


For the rest of you, please step into..............

Ge2FHDf_L78

[mszee]

Had to watch it a couple of times before realizing what it's all about...slow going here today...

This is EXTREMELY well scripted and acted out...AND directed...recognized a few rather famous American actors...

It's creepy enough...but, unfortunately, probably very accurate...

This is a good lesson to learn not just for kids here...but for all of us...

Cyber world is full of predators and weirdos...learning to recognize what is real and what isn't...is a necessary skill on the net...

[The Flying Mouse]

:twisted: I think a version of this film should be shown in schools.

Perhaps watered down a little on the language and some of the sexual content.

But would this not also water down the seriousness of the issue I wonder? :roll:

My main concern is probablly that although the message IS clear enough, a lot of kids would probablly just treat it as a piece of light entertainment rather than take on board how very real that kind of situation is.

That this kind of thing DOES happen.

I think the average schoolkid, when talking to his peers, would find the end "funny" rather than sinister, and would fail to see the implications of what happened.
I can hardly see the tale ending without violence.

But perhaps i'm not having enough faith in youngsters to treat this seriously, and I believe that no matter how they chose to view it, it would certainly be talked about in school yards.

[mszee]

I think the problem is...while most people understand what is going on on the web...most people also think...well...that can't happen to me...

The ability to distinquish between what is real and what isn't...is a great skill and one that should be developed by everybody...

I do believe that being online for a while teaches you that skill. Not sure how those two were able to go on for 6 months without seeing even little discrepancies...little lies...

If somebody is not honest about who they are or what they want...sooner or later...it comes out...little discrepancies creep in...

One example. I was once in a chatroom...and a person was talking about being in Gulf war and being a hero etc etc etc

Everything rang true...person gained respect of many...until one day somebody asked him how old he is...and he told us his age...

Something in my head immediately started ringing bells...right...at the time of the war...if the age was given right...that person must have been 5 years old!!! I called him on it...that's the last time anybody saw him ever in that chat...and yet...this is not a fact...person like that might have logged in again and again under different login ID with a different story...problem was...the story did ring absolutely true...even to a veteran of chatrooms like me...

Pay attention to what person says...sooner or later...everything secret becomes obvious...

[Jeanie]

Thanks, Neil.

That's a great film on the dangers, of the internet.

J.

[MeatGrl1]

This is a very serious topic and highlights just how vunerable kids are and with this perspective you can see how peadophiles work and it is scary. It took me awhile before I realized that they were people in a chatroom but it hit home really, how many people do you know really on the net?
I think on controlled sites like this one and .net you can more or less expect people to be who they say they are, it's the less common and unknown sites that hold the most risk and it's scary.

[mszee]

Yes...I've thought about it...and the reason most of us know the truth about others here...or most of it in any event is...

Pretadors for the most part will NOT look on ML fan site for their victims...

Now...In Sync fan club site might be a totally different story altogether...

[JanT]

Eerie

[mszee]

And here we go...this is from CNN.com 1/22/07

Web of cyber lies leads to murder, police say

BUFFALO, New York (AP) -- He was an 18-year-old Marine headed to war.

She was an attractive young woman sending him off with pictures and lingerie.

Or so each one thought.

In reality, they were two middle-aged people carrying on an Internet fantasy based on seemingly harmless lies.

When a truthful 22-year-old was drawn in, authorities say, their cyber escape turned deadly.

"When you're on the Internet talking, you haven't got a clue who that is on the other end," Erie County Sheriff's Lt. Ron Kenyon said. "You don't have a clue."

Puzzling shooting death

When Brian Barrett was shot to death on September 15 outside the factory where he worked to help pay for college, investigators and his family were stumped.

Barrett, 22, was an aspiring industrial arts teacher, an accomplished high school athlete who had coached Little League all summer and helped his father coach soccer. Those who knew the Buffalo State College student described him as quiet and unassuming.

He had clearly been targeted. Barrett was shot three times at close range in the neck and left arm after climbing into his truck about 10 p.m. at the end of a shift at Dynabrade Corp. in Clarence, 20 miles outside of Buffalo. His body was found two days later when a co-worker spotted his pickup in an isolated part of the company parking lot.

"He was just a nice kid, a gentleman," said Starpoint High School Athletic Director Tom Sarkovics, who was Barrett's baseball coach for two years. "I don't think anybody could say a bad thing about him."

Co-worker charged

On November 27, Barrett's 47-year-old co-worker and friend, Thomas Montgomery, was charged with Barrett's murder. The motive, investigators said, was jealousy over Barrett's budding Internet relationship with the same 18-year-old woman Montgomery had been wooing since the previous year.

What neither man knew was that the woman was really a 40-something West Virginia mother using her daughter's identity to attract Internet suitors.

Cyberspace, it appeared, was enough for her, and it was a near certainty she would never have met either man.

"The game would have been over at that point and time for sure," Kenyon said.

When Montgomery began chatting with the woman in 2005, the former Marine portrayed himself as perhaps a previous version of himself -- a young Marine preparing for deployment to Iraq, Assistant District Attorney Ken Case said.

For a time, they communicated strictly through chat rooms and e-mail.

Then the woman began sending gifts to Montgomery's home, Case said. Pictures of the woman's daughter, lingerie and a set of custom-made dog tags arrived at the pale yellow suburban house that Montgomery shared with his wife and two teenage children.

Wife intercepted gift

Montgomery's wife intercepted one of the packages, Case said. She wrote back to the woman at the return address, and included a family portrait to make her point.

"As you can see, Tom's not 18," Case said she wrote. "He's married and he's a father of two. He's 47 and I'm his wife." And, believing she was writing to an 18-year-old: "You've obviously been fooled."

The West Virginia woman -- whom authorities will not identify -- remembered a friend named Brian that Montgomery had mentioned. She recalled enough of his computer screen name to contact Barrett to ask him about what Montgomery's wife had told her.

Soon Barrett was in regular contact with the woman. Despite knowing the truth about Montgomery, the woman remained in contact with him as well, Case said.

The woman made no secret of the fact she was chatting with Barrett, Case said, and Barrett talked about the relationship at work. Montgomery, authorities say, became jealous.

Wife files for divorce

Sheriff's investigators believe Barrett's killer wore camouflage and a ski mask when he approached Barrett in the parking lot with a .30-caliber rifle and fired at close range.

Montgomery is being held without bail after pleading not guilty to second-degree murder. Tall and with thinning hair, glasses and a mustache, he said nothing at a procedural court appearance on January 10.

He is due back in court in June.

His wife, whom authorities have not named, has begun divorce proceedings, Case said. She did not respond to a message left at Montgomery's home in suburban Cheektowaga or answer a reporter's knock there.

Internet crime expert J.A. Hitchcock, author of "Net Crimes & Misdemeanors," said the case illustrates the dangers that lurk on the web.

"I'm hoping that this case will make people think twice about what they do online and what their actions can cause in the long run," she said.

:shock:

[JulesB]

I think on controlled sites like this one and .net you can more or less expect people to be who they say they are, it's the less common and unknown sites that hold the most risk and it's scary.

It happens in this community too, on this site and .net, please don't believe everyone, as some do go out of their way to deceive. The list is longer than you might think. As with any online community, not everyone is who they say they are.

Jules :cool:

[mszee]

According to FBI, not surprisingly so far first on their list of internet offenders/predators is Myspace.com

[The Flying Mouse]

It happens in this community too, on this site and .net, please don't believe everyone, as some do go out of their way to deceive. The list is longer than you might think. As with any online community, not everyone is who they say they are.

Jules :cool:

:twisted: OK, I admit it, i'm not really that 30 yr old stud muffin you all know as Neil :mrgreen: , i'm really a 13 year old girl named Britney who is into Boyzone, and i'm ploting on bringing down the Meat Loaf world from the inside :oops:

[mszee]

:twisted: OK, I admit it, i'm not really that 30 yr old stud muffin you all know as Neil :mrgreen: , i'm really a 13 year old girl named Britney who is into Boyzone, and i'm ploting on bringing down the Meat Loaf world from the inside :oops:

*Immediately files for cyber divorce*...

I have nothing to confess...I REALLY AM an old daft bat...:cool:

[RadioMaster]

wait till may guys....wait till may:))
http://www.christoph-woerner.de/uploaded_images/hering-admin-758195.jpg

But seriously,
it´s true that the anonymity(sp?) IS a big problem, I can tell from my own experiances (on this forum!), that people are not really all as sane as they seem to be.
I was looking on youtube for a clip I watched a few months back, but I couldnt find it anymore, so I´ll tell you the content:

The parents are sitting at lunch, the doorbell rings?
The father opens and some very dangerous looking Nazis are entering
"Hi, is Chris there?" "sure, upstairs!", he lets them in and goes back to his wife.
The bell is ringing again, a pink dressed fagget is entering.
"Hi, can I speak to Chris?" "sure, get in, he´s upstairs"
The third time the bell rings an old crack whore is entering: "Hello, where´s Chris?" "Oh, he´s upstairs, please come in".

In the end there´s the line:
"You would save your kids in such situations, but do you do it, too, when they´re online?"

Says very much I think....

[Monstro]

:twisted: OK, I admit it, i'm not really that 30 yr old stud muffin you all know as Neil :mrgreen: , i'm really a 13 year old girl named Britney who is into Boyzone, and i'm ploting on bringing down the Meat Loaf world from the inside :oops:

And that green jacket will do it as well!!!!!!!

Seriously though, excellent film and true. Some of us have met up from here and, green jackets asside, we're pretty much who we say we are though the dangers apply the same to this site as in any other, anyone not being straight wouldn't want to meet as part of a group but I bet there's people on here who've arranged a solo meet.

[mszee]

Michael, how do you mean about arranging solo meet?

[Monstro]

Arranging to meet alone with someone you only know off the internet alone.

[JulesB]

Does attendence at close to 20 meet ups in the UK and US over the last 6 years count as learning the ropes enough to know that things aren't always as they seem? If you know better, great. I was just letting everyone know that this community is as susceptible as any other to the perils of the internet.

Jules :cool:

[The Flying Mouse]

Does attendence at close to 20 meet ups in the UK and US over the last 6 years count as learning the ropes enough to know that things aren't always as they seem? If you know better, great. I was just letting everyone know that this community is as susceptible as any other to the perils of the internet.

Jules :cool:


:twisted: I don't think anyone is arguing that point Jules :wink:

[mszee]

Jules, I actually don't think so either...am puzzled by your last post...

[RadioMaster]

Just a little thought:
As this whole thread says, it´s pretty common that people on the internet are not who they claim to be.
So let´s take a very low guess and say that it´s 2,5% of all internet users, and take that on the 2000ish members of this forum, and you´ll still get about 50 people with fake identities.
Interesting, not?

[JulesB]

Some of us have met up from here and, green jackets asside, we're pretty much who we say we are though the dangers apply the same to this site as in any other, anyone not being straight wouldn't want to meet as part of a group but I bet there's people on here who've arranged a solo meet.

I was commenting on the above quote and was too lazy to bother with including it in my post. Next time I venture out of lurkdom I will take the time to quote the text. :mrgreen:

Jules :cool:

[Monstro]

I was commenting on the above quote and was too lazy to bother with including it in my post. Next time I venture out of lurkdom I will take the time to quote the text. :mrgreen:

Jules :cool:

Didn't think I was disagreeing with you?

[The Flying Mouse]

Just a little thought:
As this whole thread says, it´s pretty common that people on the internet are not who they claim to be.
So let´s take a very low guess and say that it´s 2,5% of all internet users, and take that on the 2000ish members of this forum, and you´ll still get about 50 people with fake identities.
Interesting, not?


:twisted: It would be interesting (if probablly a little terrifying) to hear some kind of statistics on the matter :shock:

But what is the meaning exactly of a fake ID?

Many people on the internet have a net alterego to some extent.
I think it's one of the primary reasons people create user names.

To the mildest extent, it could just mean that a person can find themselves more assertive and sure of themselves where in real life they tend to shy away from confrontation.
Although these people tend to have different character traits to their everyday selves, they are, usually, pretty truthful when it comes down to age, gender etc.

Then it goes all the way to the other extream, to Duane the 46 yr old truck driver from Detroit, AKA, Peggy Sue, age 13 from Vermont :nuts: .


I supose we'll never be able to get any sort of indication on what percentage of internet users are using online personas that SERIOUSLY detract from who that person is, as you'd have to find out the real ID of every forum member, chat room lurker, and game site addict on the web.

[JulesB]

Didn't think I was disagreeing with you?

I took what you wrote to say that if someone shows up in a group they are who they say they are, when I've experienced something different. The majority are who they say they are, but sometimes that doesn't hold true.

Didn't mean to cause an uproar. :shock:

Jules :cool:

[RadioMaster]

wowowow....
I think there´s a slight difference from behaving a little different in chatrooms and in real life and claiming to be a completely different person.
And I think it´s the second kind we´re talking about here.

[JulesB]

wowowow....
I think there´s a slight difference from behaving a little different in chatrooms and in real life and claiming to be a completely different person.
And I think it´s the second kind we´re talking about here.

I've run into the second kind, no kidding. The stories I could tell. :D

Jules :cool:

[mszee]

I've run into the second kind, no kidding. The stories I could tell. :D

Jules :cool:

How strange...I thought that this site is more or less exempt from that kind...

[Monstro]

No site is exempt, some may have easier targets than others but everywhere has the same issues

[vrg]

I do know I've met some great people through this UK site and also through .net. My instincts work pretty well, and I've been cautious as I've gone along, but haven't really bumped into anyone who was not at all what they said they were. I know I'm quite shy in reality until I get to know you or the ice is broken; online, I am a lot bolder. And we won't talk about the difference between my PMing Meat, and meeting him in person! But that is the only major difference with me between cyber and reality. If I've missed anything, Zina can tell you.

[The Flying Mouse]

wowowow....
I think there´s a slight difference from behaving a little different in chatrooms and in real life and claiming to be a completely different person.
And I think it´s the second kind we´re talking about here.

:twisted: Well it's all part and parcel of the same issue really, so no real need to put a boundry on the convo :wink:

I've run into the second kind, no kidding. The stories I could tell. :D

Jules :cool:

Well come on.
Spill beans :mrgreen:

No site is exempt, some may have easier targets than others but everywhere has the same issues

I have to agree.
Although personally I have never anyone from this site who was not what they claimed to be, doesn't mean it can't happen.

I think this kind of site has a pretty low target factor for this kind of behaviour, but nowhere on the internet is 100% infalable.

Now if you'll excuse me, i'm off to check every little detail on every member on the site
*glares around members with suspicion :bleh: *

[mszee]

Guess I can say I got lucky for as few as I've met from this site...they been what they claimed to be...

[JulesB]

Not to make anyone paranoid, but the worst case scenerio we have encountered was a possible attempt at real world identity theft. In the USA this is a growing problem and it can wreck havoc personally and financially.

A trusting fan invited another from this community to join them in attending a show out of town and invited them to their home to stay before heading to the show. Long story short, the host felt afterwards something very strange had gone on, and very likely the guest had tried to steal personal info, leading to 18 months of hell for the host.

Just be careful.

Jules :cool:

[MeatGrl1]

I have to say everyone I met at RAH last year were who they said they were and it worked out well, but I think because it was a 'fan club' meet up it was safe as can be and as Neil said earlier I think the risk here is very low though not altogether 100%, sure like everything else I am weary of new members but then just take it as a pinch of salt. Don't know where I am going with this really except I agree with Ginny, I am alot better at expressing myself in text than verbally but that doesn't mean I don't have fun I just don't cope well in big groups but that's beside the point, everyone I've met on this site have been wonderful and were who they have said they have been:)).

[The Flying Mouse]

A trusting fan invited another from this community to join them in attending a show out of town and invited them to their home to stay before heading to the show. Long story short, the host felt afterwards something very strange had gone on, and very likely the guest had tried to steal personal info, leading to 18 months of hell for the host.


:twisted: I had something like this happen :evil:

Had someone steal my identity :shock:

Unfortuntly,that person found out when they tried to use it that I had 21 warrants out on my ass :devil:

They now doing 37 consecutive life sentances, and i'm living my new life as Walter Tannenbalm :mrgreen:

[MeatGrl1]

:twisted: I had something like this happen :evil:

Had someone steal my identity :shock:

Unfortuntly,that person found out when they tried to use it that I had 21 warrants out on my ass :devil:

They now doing 37 consecutive life sentances, and i'm living my new life as Walter Tannenbalm :mrgreen:

:lmao: :shock: !

[The Flying Mouse]

:twisted: Sorry bout that, I have a natural impulse to let my loon loose, but Jules post highlights that no community is ever 100% safe.

There are many reasons people pretend they are what they are not, and they are not always obvious.

[MeatGrl1]

It's OK;)

Made me laugh:))!

And that is sadly very true.

[mszee]

:twisted: I had something like this happen :evil:

Had someone steal my identity :shock:

Unfortuntly,that person found out when they tried to use it that I had 21 warrants out on my ass :devil:

They now doing 37 consecutive life sentances, and i'm living my new life as Walter Tannenbalm :mrgreen:

Right...

*Unpacks her suitcase and phones airline to cancel her ticket*...

Done...this should take care of that...

[mszee]

It's OK;)

Made me laugh:))!

And that is sadly very true.

I know...it always makes me sad too when he makes me laugh...:(

[MeatGrl1]

Now Zina,
I did not mean that and you know I didn't I was refering to his last statement...

THE FLYING MOUSE
There are many reasons people pretend they are what they are not, and they are not always obvious.

[mszee]

Now Zina,
I did not mean that and you know I didn't I was refering to his last statement...

Well, THAT statement made me sad too...

[The Flying Mouse]

:twisted: Twas a comment said in jest, a play on words.

Pray continue.

[SW31]

:shock: :shock: :shock: :idea: :idea: :idea: :yikes: :yikes: :yikes: :??: :??: :??: :??: :??: :??: :??:

[MeatGrl1]

:shock: :shock: :shock: :idea: :idea: :idea: :yikes: :yikes: :yikes: :??: :??: :??: :??: :??: :??: :??:

:lmao:

Chris, what the hell is with the smilies !!!

:lmao:!

[JulesB]

I have to say everyone I met at RAH last year were who they said they were and it worked out well, but I think because it was a 'fan club' meet up it was safe as can be and as Neil said earlier I think the risk here is very low though not altogether 100%, sure like everything else I am weary of new members but then just take it as a pinch of salt. Don't know where I am going with this really except I agree with Ginny, I am alot better at expressing myself in text than verbally but that doesn't mean I don't have fun I just don't cope well in big groups but that's beside the point, everyone I've met on this site have been wonderful and were who they have said they have been:)).


It's wonderful you had such a great experience, I know the feeling. Yes, the risk is very low, but the threat is there. I've had some of the best times of my life with the people on this board, however, bad things happen to good people.

Make all the jokes you want, but this community is as vunerable as any other. The only security involved is an email address that isn't a freebee like hotmail or yahoo and that's basically all the security that can be enforced.

Jules :cool:

[RadioMaster]

I have to say everyone I met at RAH last year were who they said they were and it worked out well, but I think because it was a 'fan club' meet up it was safe as can be and as Neil said earlier I think the risk here is very low though not altogether 100%, sure like everything else I am weary of new members but then just take it as a pinch of salt. Don't know where I am going with this really except I agree with Ginny, I am alot better at expressing myself in text than verbally but that doesn't mean I don't have fun I just don't cope well in big groups but that's beside the point, everyone I've met on this site have been wonderful and were who they have said they have been:)).

How can you be sure about that?
All you know is that you meet a guy, who called himself Neil, but you have no proof that he´s Neil, he could also be Neil´s mad neighbour who lived his whole life in the cellar watching the people go by.
The thing that I´m trying to say, is that you believe that the people are who they claim to be, but you have absolutely no proof for that. You just think that wont happen to me, and thats, as I think, the problem with it.

Not to make anyone paranoid, but the worst case scenerio we have encountered was a possible attempt at real world identity theft. In the USA this is a growing problem and it can wreck havoc personally and financially.

A trusting fan invited another from this community to join them in attending a show out of town and invited them to their home to stay before heading to the show. Long story short, the host felt afterwards something very strange had gone on, and very likely the guest had tried to steal personal info, leading to 18 months of hell for the host.

Just be careful.

Jules :cool:

In 8th or 9th grade, a friend of mine entered the school chatroom, claiming he was me, insulting my friends and giving a very bad picture of me. I know that this is different to what we´re discussing here, but isnt that where it all starts?

[MeatGrl1]

Yes I see your point.
But I am still here and I met Neil again on Thursday for this signing so I can safely say it's him, however I am aware that meet up's can go wrong and I also realize that sometimes they can go drasticly wrong.
I've just been lucky in that sense I guess.

[mszee]

How can you be sure about that?
All you know is that you meet a guy, who called himself Neil, but you have no proof that he´s Neil, he could also be Neil´s mad neighbour who lived his whole life in the cellar watching the people go by.


Yes I see your point.
But I am still here and I met Neil again on Thursday for this signing so I can safely say it's him, however I am aware that meet up's can go wrong and I also realize that sometimes they can go drasticly wrong.
I've just been lucky in that sense I guess.

Did anybody check this guy's - Neil whatever - ID???

I mean...nobody knows that he, in fact, is Neil...do we??? :shock: