If you don't ask questions you will never learn.

And we didn't in the 8 years with W. Lesson learned.

I don't know what effect it will have had on Romney's final poll Michael. I don't think Meat appeared to benefit himself, but because he felt strongly about this candidate's ability to deal wit the economy. It seems to have affected some fans' perceptions of Meat, but as I said, I don't think it will affect the majority. Once the election is over I suspect all those Romney supporters who rushed to Meat's page to laud him will disappear into the mist, just as I suspect many of the Obama supporters (numbers of whom I don't believe are "fans" anyway, but simply supporters wanting to post negatives) will disappear from there too.

Thankfully it would seem Warrio is unlikely to set up a poll ;)

Caryl

I've said all this before, but no one is disputing Meat's right to choose who he votes for and supports.

It's almost starting to sound like the dissenters are the only ones who believe Meat Loaf's first political endorsement in his entire life means anything. Apparently he disagrees with him on gay rights, womens rights, civil liberties, what's next, healthcare, war? Everything apart from the economy?

If you're going to endorse a political candidate and talk about 'backbone', encourage people to try to change their own families minds etc., to come back the next day, after all that, after not qualifying your position one tiny bit saying 'oh...but I didn't mean I endorse him on this or that or this' strikes me as very, very low. Damage control, perhaps.

but its putting meats character into question.... and I feelk if and when meat sees this hes gone forever from here

I don't even know where to start, but here goes.

I have debated on getting involved in this, but since I am a voting American I feel the need to express my thoughts.

I lean conservative more than liberal, I am a registered republican (only because you have to register with one side or the other). However, I have voted democrat, republican, and third party in some local elections. Hell, I threw my support behind Ron Paul for the last several years, and I still believe in his way of thinking, but within our system, a third party candidate has no chance of winning. Sad, but true.

I voted for Obama in 2008, and will likely do so again in 2012. Obama has done a lot of things that have not been good for this country, but Mitt Romney is not the answer. Never has been, never will be. Meat, has thrown his support behind Romney, I for one think that is a mistake. Does it make Meat an elitest homophobe, no it does not.

I am a registered republican, but I disagree with their thoughts on abortion and gay rights just to name a few. People are people; gay, straight, black, white, muslim, christian, or anything in between. Everyone deserves the same rights.

Side note, many republicans like to say that they believe in the biblical definition of marriage. Well, dust off the old testament and take a look at what it "defines" as marriage and it will make these people look even kookier that they do now.

Throwing your support behind a candidate does not mean that you support everything that a candidate says, but when you do it grand style as a celebrity, it makes it look like you fully support the candidate. Meat will have to deal with the flack that comes from that, but I am sure he was fully aware of that when he made the decision.

I may not agree with what Meat did or why he did it, but I would forever defend his right to do so as an American.

Exactly.

Really? I'd love to hear what he has to say. I think he'll be fine with it,

He chose to put his personal politics out there and to tell people who was the right choice in his mind, apparently because he believed his position in entertainment meant his endorsement would mean something. This from a man who has been fiercely private on his personal life and many other subjects for most of his life.

He chose to endorse a side, and to tell others to choose that side.

Nobody made him do it.

I agree. I try always to seek information before making judgements. I have argued for that rather than making assumptions, or as is the case on his FB page, hurling abuse based on assumptions. For fans who have followed him for years I believe Meat's track record speaks for itself .. it does with me. I believe the statements he has made on his page about his stance on gay rights and the pro-choice issue absolutely, because he has never given me any doubt whatsoever on his position on these issues.

Caryl

EXACTLY which is why Meat's endorsement of Romney concerns me

:twisted: Not in the slightest


Not in the slightest.


Not in the slightest.

I didn't like Snoop Dogg before he spoke up for Obama, and I don't like him now.
I can't see how anyone can base their artistic preferences on political affliation, or how someone can base their political affiliation based on their artistic preferences.
That's just, dumb :shrug:


From the reaction, yes. But I don't agree with it.
If I posted "Vote Mitt" on facebook I wouldn't expect to get the level (in quantity and venom) of abuse that Meat has got.
But celebs have a much larger following. Plus, I believe that people "expect" something from their celebrities. They expect them to think the way they do, to feel the way they do, to agree with their views.
That, IMHO, is a unfair feeling of ownership and entitlement.
When it turns out that celeb thinks differently, the fan feels let down.

Love the artist for nothing but their music, and as long as they deliver great music, you'll never be dissapointed.

thats an assumption though :twisted:

On his FB page he has responded clearly and courteously .. yet there profanity, rage and hatred abound.

Here we may not agree with each other, but at least we are discussing the issues rationally and intelligently, and with respect for the most part, rather than hurling abuse and threats. Meat might agree with some things from both sides, who knows? I am sure, however, he would not expect it to not be the subject of discussion and debate.

Caryl

:twisted: What I believe Andrew is saying, is that no celeb has ever got up on a podium and said "a lot of what this guy says makes good sence, but a couple of his ideas are bat shit".

You might agree with 80% of a candidates policies, but you don't talk about the 20% in a support speech at a rally.

He made a bold, controversial choice to support Romney. I agee with you when you say, "He chose to endorse a side and to tell others to choose that side" That was his choice alone. And I agree with his right to make that choice. Now that he has done it, he has to take the expected heat, debate, criticism & negativity that comes with it

I agree with you. Look, I've been a fan of his since I was 14 and I'll be 50 next year. As I said before I'm struggling with the action but not with Meat the person. I'm only human and it will take some time for me to process it all.

On a side note, I'd love it if we had a question thread for Meat to answer all the open questions. Maybe have it open for a week or two. I don't know how often he comes here.

It is a fact that Mitt Romney, if elected will curtail gay rights and curtail women's rights to choose. It is a fact that Meat Loaf stood up in front of cameras and a big crowd, gave his first endorsement in his entire life, and has told people to vote for this man, and to argue with their family and friends to vote for this man.

That is reality, and having faith that he apparently feels differently does not affect his actions, which are sealed in the books, documented and recorded no matter what 'Red Pony Tours' do about it.

If he disagreed with Romney on these huge issues that affect the ways in which people are allowed to pursue their happiness, control their own bodies and live their lives, then shame on him for standing in that man's corner and telling people to fight for him without qualifying that fact.

If you publicly on a huge stage endorse somebody you must fully expect people to question your own morality in comparison to the person you have endorsed, he should expect this. He has put his own character into question which was never really questioned before. I myself am questioning Meats actions. When you enjoy somebody's work you take it simply for what it is, but when you are more of a devoted fan who comes to a fan site, who pays the highest price for the tickets and is the first in line at the gigs you feel more personally connected to the Artist. When you discover that the person you admire so much has such a different view point on issues that really do matter, that go beyond the economy but also verge into gay rights, affordable health care etc, you cant help but question and feel disappointed (depending on ones view). You wonder if Meat is supporting Romney for his concerns on the economy or because he is going to be paying less taxes under Romney, I don't want to think meat is a man of such selfishness and greed but that is the danger of politics, this is the way it can be spun. Endorsement opens up the option for debate and questions things that were never really questioned before because they never had to be.

What you stand for and you stand behind does reflect you as a person, it matters.

I can respect that :-)

If he comes here I'm sure he'll see the thread, and if he wants to answer any of the questions raised, will ;)

Caryl

:twisted: I'm no expert in the American political system, but is it that easy?

He might try and curtail women's rights and gay rights, but I would have thought there would have to be some sort of vote for that to happen.

He might have the power to force his crazy ideas to the vote, but he can't push them through.

If i'm wrong, i'm off to America to run myself. It would be kind of cool to do whatever the f*ck you want without going to the trouble of making those pesky laws :mrgreen:

Everything in politics is based on ideals, intent and sales pitch. Not every law or policy a politician intends to pass will pass, but you go on their ideas. That part's not even worth debating. Still you're right, I should have said 'will attempt' rather than 'will'. The rest of my point stands, I think.

True we are all making the assumption that he wasn't somehow coherced into this endorsement. I think it is a vaild assumption. However, if he was in some way influenced or coherced into make a political endorsement, that would still call into question his character. Meat is thought of as a free-thinker, as a do it your own way, don't follow the crowd type of person. Being somehow influenced into this flies in the face of that.

And he is taking it. I disagree with some of the arguments here, but I have not suggested they should not be voiced. Nor do I believe Meat would not expect this. What I do stand firm against is the torrent of hate and abuse being posted on his FB page. That is pack mob behaviour, and I would never find it decent.

This has not altered my perception of Meat as a person. Do I think it was high risk? Yes. Was it wise? Perhaps not. Do I think I understand why he did it? I believe so. Does it, as Mark asks, make him an elitist homophobe? LIke Mark, I think absolutely not. Does it make me doubt his values, his word or his integrity? No.

However, I agree with Mouse. If you like the music and the performance, that has not changed. The hysterical talk elsewhere of burning CDs and returning concert tickets I find bizarre, particularly as I sense most of these people have never been attached to the man himself, a good number I suspect are not even fans of the performer.

Caryl

:twisted: So, even if Romney wins, gay rights and womens rights are not at threat until everyone with a voice in the American government is as bat shit as Romney?

I think that makes the future safe ;)

Unless you are inside his mind you can't know that. Right now he is sending conflicting messages. His words are saying I am for gay rights, women's rights and pro-choice. His endorsement of Romney is saying, I am throwing my support behind a man to be President of the US who is anti-gay, against the rights of women and against a women's right to choice. He is saying I don't believe in these things but I am supporting a man to be leader of my country who does. Why would you support a candidate to run your country who doesn't support your beliefs?. Meat is making it very difficult to figure out what he truly believes. Again, actions speak louder than words. And Meat's actions are calling into question many things that people believed to be true about the character of Meat as a person