If that's the case, than I feel sorry for Bruce as well, because nobody, regardless of political alliance deserves this kind of crap

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:twisted: :spit:

I am one of those hard core fans. I don't know of too many people that could question that. I have always supported Meat. Rarely if ever have I been critical of him. I have always praised him and even looked up to him; A great actor, a great musician, an amazing performance, and a a wonderful human being, I thought. Am I now disappointed in him? I think I have made that very clear. I am disappointed in his endorsement of Romney, however if it were only that I could live with it. It was his pompous (in my opinion) and preachy attitude in the way he expressed it, telling people to argue with friends and family". That I may still be able to get over. His vocal performance when he endorsed Romney was extremely poor, and I am being kind in saying it that way. One bad performance I could forgive. However, along with everything else it makes me start questioning things. Of course then he has to go & delete all the video evidence of it, as if by doing that he can pretend the whole thing doesn't exist. Then when tries to explain his postition on FB, he says he disagrees with many of Romney's policies, yet still DEMANDS that we vote for him and fight with others to do the same. His explanations of his position, just baffled me even more. Then he has anything that is the least bit supportive of Obama or expresses the least bit of disappointment in his decision to endorse Romney deleted from his FB page.

I have had ALL of my posts deleted from his page. I started off being respectful and simply expressing my concern & disappointment. When I wasn't shown the couresy of having MY OPINION respected, I could longer show him respect since he had proven that it wasn't deserved.


I still love his music. It is hard to listen to the music of a man you once respected without having very mixed feelings. I am not at the point where i am ready to get rid of my collection. Depending on how this plays out going forward, it may come to that. I wasn't only a fan of his music I was a fan of him as a person. it is all tied together.

I am one of the die hard fans
I am very disappointed in the man

Very honest post by BostonAngel. It's quite sad it comes to this. I feel Meat has in the past done other things to alienate fans too. It's a shame. It's not even Meat's political choice I have a problem with it is how he has conducted himself (I very much agree with BostonAngel) is a bigger issue to me; bad singing and trying to get all evidence of his support now deleted.

I completely disagree with MarkS saying you are an idiot when you base your music listening on a person's political views. In my opinion one is an idiot for suggesting it never matters. 14 pages in, if it doesn't matter then why are people talking about it?

WE are speculating about how the other band members came to be there.
We don't know if they were asked or told to appear.
This is a scenario to consider in the real world: If your boss told you to do something that was fundamentally against your beliefs & principles would you do it? Would you say YES and go against your beliefs? Would you stand up for your beliefs and say NO? How secure to you think your job would be if you went against what your boss said to do? In most situations that would put your job in jeopardy. Either way you are faced with an uncomfortable & and precarious dilema. As I said, we don't know if the band was asked to appear & given or choice or if they were simply told that they were appearing. It is speculation.

At the time I posted that, less had been removed. They have cleaned up there today, although some critical posts aimed at Meat remain. So some less abusive may well have been thrown away with the bathwater of profanity and outrageous comments. C'et la vie. Personally I am glad to see his fan page back to some semblance of what it normally is.

Really? I thought this was at a rally of Romney supporters? He didn't shove my face in it, an although it made the news in the USA (and Meat has many fans outside the USA), no-one HAS to watch everything on the news. A rally is an event where those supporting someone DO speak out strongly and encourage people to rally support.

Yes they did, and if some respectful comments (and they were in far lesser proportion to the angry, abusive and threatening ones) got lost when threads with abuse scattered through them were removed, that's just one of those things. Many threads which started reasonably were dragged into the gutter by supporters of both candidates. Both Meat and Frances are busy people, and sometimes it will be easier to remove a thread rather than pick out individual comments. I started a thread with a supportive comment and later someone added abuse. It all went. I'm OK with that. Plus they were nearly all there for several days for those who are genuinely fans to read them. (I say nearly all because I reported some really disgusting ones to Facebook, and I think I was not the only one, and FB may well have removed them before today)

Your view, not mine. I disagree absolutely, and to remove abusive comments, even if a few non-abusive ones get lost is not propaganda.

Meat's integrity and his character remain intact as far as I am concerned. In my view he has handled what followed the rally with dignity, patience, and courtesy.

Caryl

Which a moderator has asked us not to do

I make my music listening decision based upon the music, not the person singing it. If you are making music decisions based on politics than you are missing out on a lot of good music.

Like I said earlier, people need to get a grip and chill, and if Meat has alienated anyone as a fan, then don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out. Meat has made his political decision and a bunch of bitching and moaning from a few fans won't change his mind. Nor should his endorsement change your mind if its already made up

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You're right, but it comes with the territory. I highly doubt that he goes home at night and cries about it. ;)

I saw his telling people to argue with their friends as just plain old bluster- I didn't take it seriously for a minute, and I doubt many other people did, either.

I do understand your feelings, though.

Thoroughly agree with this notion but I just don't think he has it within him. I don't know if its a hearing problem, physical fatigue or something psychological.

All this bending over and grabbing big notes right from the off - he didn't used to try that. He had control, subtlety and the ability to sing like an angel.
I'm sad. Sad for me as a fan. Sad for Meat and his legacy.

Don't care about the politics.

There are people here who will get cross for what I've said and there are people here who write a better argument than me but I'm bored of seeing those same names cropping up always defending his vocals. Its not all about the performance, its about that voice that grabbed us all by the heart and took us to another planet.

Luke

So do I. It was entirely congruent with what I have seen at this kind of rally in the USA

I don't make all of my music choices based on politics or character. Many bands I listen to simply because I like what I hear. Ask me about where they were born, their birtdate, who their current wife or girlfriend is, I couldn't tell you. With Meat is was different. I was a fan of both the man and his music. As I said as a fan of Meat Loaf it was all tied together. I had admired the man since Bat Out Of Hell came out. As human beings, when we are disillusioned by someone it is natural to feel disappointed & be upset. can get over it? This endorsement goes beyond politics. For many fans, it has called into question Meat's character, which is what made them pay attention to Meat in the first place. Am I the only one of his true, die-hard fans that feels this way. Absolutely not.

Not cross .. although I think it's disappointing that this thread seems to be heading now to Meat's vocals, the voice has gone etc

I don't think I've seen anyone saying the vocals at the rally were good. I am one of the "same names cropping up always defending his vocals", and I have not said they were good. I have said that unfortunately he did this on the day he needs to rest his voice now. He is 65 and needs that rest. The two songs they did were not very good vocally, but not bad in my view. After those though, and then rallying the crowd, you could tell his voice was worn to hoarseness. This I say because I believe it to be true. It doesn't make the vocals great .. I say it because it explains why I believe this performance was not indicative of what Meat achieves on stage consistently still.


Caryl

How the hell does endorsing a republican over a democrat, which is basically the same damn thing anyway, call Meat's character in question. Yea, he got excited and was a bit over the top, but you are reading way to much into a political endorsement.

With this election, bottom line, we are screwed either way. And if you don't believe me, just wait till Obamacare fully kicks in an see how that works out for you.

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For a long time, fans who dared to say that they were more interested in the music than in the man have been heavily criticized and accused of not being "true fans". They were labelled "haters" and "enemies". If you didn't unconditionally support everything Meat Loaf said or did, whether it was related to his music or not, you had to prepare to take flak. Now we're told to separate the music from the man. Puzzling.

I'm sorry Caryl but I can't agree. If it's age related, it's certainly not the case with many of Meat's contemporaries of the same age (sammy hagar, alice cooper, even david lee roth is still just about recognisable). And as for the latter, and I'm saying this with no pleasure whatsoever, it was a bad vocal. Awful, in fact. And I'm not saying that to hate on Meat Loaf, or to make him 'feel bad', but to these ears it's true, and it's something I hope Meat Loaf can get some help with.

Did anyone else think it was strange he performed "Break It" at the rally? It's probably the worst Steinman song I think he has performed. :-(
I think it would have been a bit more fun had he done the usual stuff maybe Bat and both Frying Pan. Maybe not so much of a political statement but certainly more entertaining and probably a bit easier for him vocally to get right and ultimately would have made more of an impression.

Sorry, but again, really? I would have put money on most people paying Meat attention in the first place to hearing him sing. I know I did, and I really don't believe I'm in a minority there. I'd also think that a large part, arguably the majority, of those who buy the albums and go to the shows, go for the performance, and many have only a sketchy idea of his character.

Yes, I like the man, I respect him, but contrary to what some here believe, I have never put him on a pedestal, nor expected him to always do as I would want. He's human and I give him permission to be that, to make choices I might not make, to have interests and passions I don't have, and to sometimes make mistakes or even disappoint me. That's what people do. People to me are like a jigsaw, and I don't try and change a piece of that any more than I would try and change a piece of The Haywain .. I simply enjoy the whole picture for the pleasure it gives me. And even if they disappoint me sometimes, it doesn't change who they are as a whole. I have followed Meat and seen how he behaves for long enough to know that those qualities I admire and like he has in good measure still. So I still like him as a person, and will still enjoy any interaction I have with him. And nothing changes the music or the performance for me, nor the passion in his delivery, his energy on stage, his determination to give me the best show he can.

Caryl

Then I'll say at 65 MEAT needs that vocal rest between shows. He is not Sammy Hagar, Alice Cooper etc .. and his voice is different, as is he. And when he gets the rest he needs at 65, his vocals are good.

It gives me no pleasure to say the vocals at the rally were not good. I simply understand why, and know they are not indicative of his performances on stage on tour.


Caryl

:twisted: [mod hat]

In all fairness, I think there's quite enough being debated on this thread without adding the general state of Meat's singing voice these days to the mix.

OK, the performance in question is somewhat relevant to the thread, but can we please confine discussion of his voice to the performance at the rally.

I do not agree with everything said on the thread, but i've found it an interesting exchange of ideas and points of view.
I wouldn't like to see the thread locked because it turns into an off topic battle about Meat's singing abilities.

[/mod hat]

:twisted: As I said earlier in the thread, I was told by a member recently that my world was too full of Meat Loaf, yet this fan went bat shit becuase Meat endorced Romney. I don't care about Meat's politics.
So which of us in more invested in Meat as a person?

So people who love Meat as a man now say just care about him muic, and the people who just care for him as an artist now voice concern about his personal political views.
It's a two way street.

It's a mad mad world :wtf:

:twisted: Read my post again.
The performance in question is on topic. Comments on the state of Meat's voice these days in general aren't.

As long as convo sticks to the rally (including that one performance) there shouldn't be a need to lock or split.

:twisted: For the record, and posts arguing the general state of Meat's voice will be deleted without prior notice.

I'd like to keep this open.

Right, time for food :mrgreen:

Sorry but that is a really really poor point. You can't compare Meat with other artist of his age for obvious reasons. The most obvious reason is that I don't think there is any other artist out there that sings songs as hard on the voice as Meat Loaf.

I will tell you I am a good singer, i have a good range, and I can sing pretty much any artists songs, and i can tell you that whereas i can sing entire albums from other artists and bands, it's a struggle to get through Meat Loaf albums! He has undoubtedly the hardest songs to sing, and he's been doing it for 40+ years ffs! Of course his voice will never be the same as it was, he's had 3+ surgeries on it for a start, done so many back to back shows when he was advised that with these types of songs that are so hard he would damage his voice doing back to back shows, but he needed to capitalise on his success at the time and that's what the record companies scheduled him to do.

But when he's rested, and when he's well prepared and warmed up, he can still blow other singers out of the water. He can still hit notes others can't. Just look at Bat on the DVD. The hardest notes for him to still hit from any of his songs are the high C's at the end and he still can. Even Russell Watson can't hit them as i remember from when he sung with Meat that time.

Meat is 65, yet still charges around the stage like he's 35, doing incredibly hard song after incredibly hard song. After a show he has literally nothing left, and yet you really think he should be able to do a show the next day as well just as well as the night before?

I'll try again since my original response to your question was first edited and then deleted ... :twisted:

Trying to stay ON topic, Meat's performance at the rally was far from his best, and while you may have gone to many more shows than I recently, it doesn't mean my opinion is necessarily wrong !