Okay, back on topic.

Poland???? Russia???

You're skewing the point here Evil. Saying "those who like their Meat "Steinman free" is putting your concept into the mouths of those who loved those albums. I like Chinese food, not because it is "Indian free", but because I like Chinese food. I can enjoy both; it does not mean I would never want to eat a curry again. Enjoying both is not to eschew either.

Again, to say one is looking forward to hearing songs from other writers AS WELL AS STEINMAN is not rejecting the Lord and all his works :roll: Some of us can look forward to both. I do.

Are possibilities, no more .. and the comment was removed from Meat's FB page.

That's the best thing you've written in this thread. I'd actually be quite happy for the existing version to get a proper CD or high quality MP3 release.

I never specified to whom my comment related.

Back to the point of Russia and Poland, it's entirely possible that they could go the same way as South Africa and India. :shrug:

Nope, you're wrong again. I haven't speculated anything. You put it out there that the Steinman material on this forthcoming album will sound 'like it's 15 years old'. It's up to you to prove it, not me, and you can't prove it because you haven't heard it, ergo: speculation.

And 'Out of the Frying Pan' was never generally used in conversation on a daily basis as far as I know. And so what if it was sixty plus years ago? Doesn't make the song any less great. :roll:

Somehow, I doubt that the new songs will include irrelevant metaphors and obscure turns of phrase that will be lost on a 21st century audience.

No one who 'speaks normally'? Leaving aside the obvious, that's an incredibly ignorant comment. What constitutes 'speaking normally' in your view?

And Caryl: I wasn't originally aiming the anti-Steinman comment towards you, though you have since contributed to it. We could debate this forever and day, so I'm happy to say that - I see it, other people have picked up on it: it's not just me - and leave it at that. Either way, it's not worth arguing :-)

Oh it was .. I guess you're too young to remember it ;):-)

This is probably true! :-) Though I'd imagine it's subject to class, region, country, etc.

The entire thread with the expception of what Meat has stated as fact is speculation about the new album and 2015 plans, so nice attempt at a heat reversal, but #Fair

As to irrelevant metaphors, this is Steinman we are talking about, the King of irrelevant metaphors, not saying it hurts all the music, but the man uses metaphors more than most.

Again, an attempt at a heat reversal, :roll: speaking normally just means using a cadence and language from the century, and not running around talking like we are at a renaissance fair. Granted there are many languages out there, hell many languages on this forum, but we share a lot of common phrases.

I think you're right- I'm not so young, ;) and I don't remember using it very much, if at all.

I agree with you- I think production can "date" a song more than the lyrics can. And, I don't care when a song was written, as long as I think it's good.

If all those cliches were such a problem, why does Bat I still sell as well as it does? It can't only be people replacing their old copies.

Mark, I had to report that last one. I'd advise against personal insults and attacks.

As for a 'heat reversal'. It isn't. I'm not feeling any kind of heat, other the one coming from my desk-side radiator (it's cold up here). You're the one making claims here, man, not me. I'm just disagreeing with you.

For the record, your own experience of language and phrase shouldn't really be enforced on anyone else, let alone award winning song writers. Me either, for that matter :roll:

I changed that for you. But given past history that is fine line to tread. Anyway, we are all just speculating, and if we all agreed it would be a boring little world.

I look forward to whatever Meat brings out with the next album, and if I don't like it, I will just simply listen to something I do like. One thing that I do like about Steinman being involved is that I do think that it will provide at least some closure, or perhaps rather a full-circle in terms of a very storied career.

What I posted earlier in this thread could have been interpreted as being anti-Stienman by some but quite frankly I don't care. I have seen on several occasions where criticisms of an album, a performance or a concert have come up that people have the right to their opinions. I accept that and am merely exercising my own right to voice my own. If the moderators of this forum have a problem with my doing so then they will respond and deal with it in whatever way they see fit.

I have enjoyed some of the songs that Stienman has written but there has also been many others that have been written by other songwriters and given the fact that I accept that there are a lot of people who are looking forward to hearing the Stienman songs, I don't think I should have to lie about hoping that more songs by other writers are sacrificed to make room for more Stienman songs or that I think his work will overshadow that of the others because that is not the purpose of a discussion board.

If Meat is excited about working with Stienman again then that's great for him and there are many fans here who are excited about it but I don't think that should mean that everyone has to be.

I am excited at the thought of a new album being released but it has a lot more to do with the fact that I like MEAT than because particular people are writing it. I know that without the writers there would be no album but they don't really make much difference to me.

There are many ways of not agreeing, the vast majority lead to a good discussion which is what was happening in this thread.

Lets all not resort to other ways of not agreeing please.

I think that's perfectly reasoned and reasonable Jenna .. personal taste is not, or should not be, prohibited or seen as anything but "Pro-" something

I have posted nothing "anti-Steinman". I simply said I did not, and do not believe at the point you raised it there was any such tone pervading the thread, so statements that I have somehow contributed to any such thing are worth denying when they are aimed at me.

If there are other people who consider that anything I have said is "anti-Steinman" let them state that and identify what on earth I have said that is so. To enjoy the work of others is not to disrespect the work of anyone else.

I'm sure he at least deserves the courtesy of having his name spelt correctly. :bleh:

Meat and Jim working together again is simply put =fantastic!!! End of debate IMO, I'm looking forward to the other songs so much aswell, I can't wait. Maybe it's been so long since jim wrote for Meat that everybody is just a little bit excited?

Have to agree with that one.

all good news,but more UK shows ??? i thought we hadthe farewell shows :|

Who are you? The spelling police?

I'm SORRY I spelt his name wrong. It was a GENUINE MISTAKE.

Jenna, I was quite surprised by this post. To say that you 'don't care', and then to go on for three paragraphs about why you don't care - necessary? Yeah, you're entitled to your opinion, but I can't help wonder what this thread would look like if the comments had been directed towards Meat Loaf, his choice in lyrics, etc. from the other side of the field.

Discussion, which is what this is/has attempted to be, IS the point of a discussion board. That's exactly what it is. And as for not 'having to lie' regarding your own opinion on things here - try posting something that doesn't agree/worship something Meat Loaf does sometime, and see what kind of a response you get. There are lots of things I'd like to discuss here, or things that I didn't necessarily agree with, but if I go there I know I'll be bombarded with people telling me that I'm wrong. So I don't do it.

The bottom line is: you can't group Steinman in with all the other writers. He isn't just another writer that happens to write songs for Meat Loaf. You're Meat Loaf fans - surely I don't need to explain this? :shock:

P.S. Mods - I think all the Steinman talk warrants its own thread. What do you guys think?

The person who is posting that they disagree with something Meat Loaf has done usually says something along the lines of "this is a discussion board" and "I'm entitled to my opinion" to which the supporters of Meat Loaf will usually try to argue with much as I feel that Jim STEINMAN's fans are doing here.

I am well aware of what STEINMAN has contributed to Meat Loaf's career and I respect that but I do not think he should be used to demean other writers. I'm sorry if you find this hard to believe but to me, he is just another songwriter.

I had no idea that to be a Meat Loaf fan that I'd automatically have to be a STEINMAN one too???

...which is then completely trampled over in favour of the 'positive' opinion (that not everyone shares).

I'm not really a Jim Steinman 'fan'. I know relatively little about him. I just know that I like some of his music in relation to Meat Loaf. If Jim released something sub standard (I'm sure he probably has), I'd acknowledge it as that. And no one is saying that you can't have an alternative point of view - but when you come in with 'I don't care' and expect that not to warrant a reply... The difference between this discussion and the Meat Loaf discussions is that here you* have to be on the 'right' side, and there you have to be on the 'right' side. There is no difference. It's not really discussion if the (for want of a better term) 'pro Meat/my opinion is always correct' team are stifling the contributions of everyone else.

That makes two of us! :-) I haven't 'demeaned' any of the other writers, though I'd argue that by referring to Jim Steinman as 'just another writer' and by CAPITALISING his name every time that's exactly what you're doing here. And I think he's done a little more than just 'contributed to Meat Loaf's career'. It's arguable that without Jim Steinman we wouldn't be sitting here now and this site wouldn't exist as it does.

No one has said that, but there's a lot of inseparable history that you can't really ignore. If you like BOOH, AFL, FRYING PAN, OBJECTS, etc, then you like Steinman, more or less.

*although I used the word 'you', it's not directed personally towards you Jenna. And none of this is personal or directed towards any one person. It's just a way of illustrating a point so that discussion can go on.

here we go again

Are you talking about the above discussions or has your rash come back?

Sorry but Steinman is not just another writer. He is the writer for Meat Loaf. Neither one of them has had the same impact working apart as they have had working together, with all due respect to Bonnie Tyler.
Meat has gone to Jim for every album for songs. If he was just another writer why bother so much.
Together they made a some great albums. Pretty clear that Meat would like to do that again.

And on another note I am also happy to see James Michael back. I really like what he does with Sixx AM. Rick Brantley is another writer I like to see write for Meat. To me it looks like they`re putting together a killer team of writers.

This thread started quite positive and exciting..!

Agreed. I think it'd be a good idea to split it - mods?

I disagree. I think people have expressed their views, and that another thread would only produce more of the same, and I'm not sure what end it would serve.

I didn't realise you were a mod :-P

No I agree on that score Caryl, but I still think it should be split as this thread has gone severely off topic.

the rash of course

We houldn't need to split the thread. Both Brave and Crazy's release and any show plans are part of Meat's 2015 plans.

What everyone needs to do is take a little step back from the keyboard and have a serious think as to whether they are contributing to the thread and the discussion in a positive way or are they contributing to the thread and discussion in a way the continues the self destructive and cyclic arguments we see on here time after time.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion, of course, but when that opinion starts to spill over into personal attacks and trolling, either deliberate or otherwise then a line has been crossed.

You all know what it is you're doing that causes this endless cycle, please stop it.

I've always thought of a fan as being more than someone that likes a few songs by a particular person but I guess that depends on how you look at it. I don't mind a few of Lady Gaga's songs but I wouldn't consider myself to be a fan of hers in any real way.

Considering the fact that Meat Loaf has released several albums without any involvement from Steinman, I find that statement hard to believe.

I thought 'Don't' was pretty stellar too.

:cheers:

Then unfortunately you don`t follow his interviews. That all started in 1984 with BAD ATTITUDE and carried on with most of his albums except HCTB and HIAHB.

It's YOUR OPINION that Steinman isn't just another writer. Some of us, myself included, do have the opinion that he's indeed just another songwriter; Granted a very successful 1. Meat's worked with many different songwriters over his career, so your statement that Steinman is THE WRITER for Meat is a falsehood. It is an OPINION that you hold. What you are now doing is making your opinion into fact. Being dimissive of others' views, yes they will understandably get defensive & even arguementitive. Then threads like this go to hell...in a handbasket. The impact of Meat's music would be the same for me even if he NEVER recorded another Steinman song after BOOH album. Have to give him credit for that since it got Meat's music to the masses.

I am happy that Brave & Crazy is being released in 2015. 6 songs on it by Steinman - awesome; NO songs on it from Steinman - awesome. Something written by James Michael - awesome; NO James Michael involvement - awesome. Something written by an unknown - awesome. I looking forward to hearing the work of whoever Meat has chosen to write & how he inteprets that work. My wish for 2015 would be that he brings The Last At Bat show to The Beacon in NYC. Better yet, would love to see that happen in 2014

6 songs from jim, awesome. 12 songs from jim, epic.

ps why does Jim being brought up evoke an argument every time...ahhhhh save me :-P

For MR. HAPPY: HOW DARE YOU SAY SOMEONE ELSE' OPINION IS WRONG. So yours is the only OPINION that matters & everyone must agree with you. That is so small-minded, arrogant, rude and dispectful. The whole purpose of a forum is for ALL to be able to express their ideas. If someone expresses an opinion different from yours you can agree to disagree. Calling someone elses opinion flat-out WRONG definately crosses the line. Yes mods feel free to edit, delete as recquired

They didn't delete it, I did, apparently too late and apparently for good reason. What I deleted didn't warrant that response, though. I don't think you could have possibly blown my comment further out of proportion if you tried :|

You have the one and only Jim Steinman to thank for every song in the Meat Loaf songbook. He is the reason Meat had the opportunity to record every other song we all know and love on Midnight, BA, BBIS, WTTN and CHSIB. The only albums he really had no influence on were the last two. My exact words were "Fair enough if you prefer other writers, but you can't deny his influence over Meat's career."

And then I agreed with you about being psyched for other writers.

EDIT: My apologies if it came across as offensive, as it really wasn't intended to be. I deleted it because I felt it could come across that way (even if I felt it shouldn't), and it clearly did. If you want to continue this, we can take it to PM.

Just in general, guys, I noticed Meat said this yesterday on his FB page and I thought I'd post it here.

I wasn't even born in 1984 so no, I haven't followed all the interviews for every album.

Based on what you have just said, you've just admitted that your earlier statement about Meat Loaf going to Steinman for songs on every album is incorrect.

Well there it is, the horse's mouth so to speak. :cool:

Yep, so now can we go back on topic again please which was the reason I started this thread?

Why would he choose for Poland or Russia or South America, when Imo most of his fans live in the UK and the westside of Europe. Or am I wrong about that?

Amen.

So it's almost certain a 2015 release then? So another year or more then before release, ( sad face ). At least it won't be rushed and I guess that extra bit of time given to it will only help. I posted this question before, what do people think the sound and feel of this album will be like? I Mean Jims songs are so distinctive like, so will the other songs fit into the sound, or have been written to fit that style. Like bat 3, steinman songs plus other writers. Now I know Jim didn't produce them, but it will be interesting.

Perhaps because the UK and Europe have had oodles of tours over the years and other countries haven't? :shrug:

No you're not wrong. However, I wouldn't assume Meat has chosen them, nor at this stage that they are anything more than possibilities, ideas that were at that moment on his mind. Given Meat removed that from his page shortly afterwards, it may be by no means certain. Meat has a new album coming out in 2015. I would hazard a guess that any record company might be asking him to tour to promote it. Meat has made it very clear that he no longer wants to tour. Promoters and the record company may well want him to. Ultimately it is promoters who put forward the deals based on what they get out of it. Meat's final say may be limited to refusing rather than choosing where and what to do .. remember Popstar to Operastar was all part of a deal in order to promote Bat3. We can speculate all we want, but it would be in a whopping void as we don't know enough of what is going on behind the scenes.

The original date Meat identified was for the release to be late this year, so the date he's now mentioned is only a few months further off, and he has a very busy schedule this year. He's said he may stop performing on stage at the end of 2015, so he has a lot to juggle ;)

@ Caryl,, yes so it's still a year away. Yes I know he said September 14 first? And what? I'm hoping its sooner.

Meat has always complaining about high taxes in Germany, so it's smart to come to Poland, where taxes may be lower. It's near to Germany, Poland is a cheep country for all Western Europe, so it's easy to travel for Germans, British and others.

Moreover there are bunch of fans in Poland, who would like to go to his concert, but can't afford to travel abroad.

In the middle of a rant on Facebook are these interesting tidbits:

He may have hit the 9 key instead of 6 by mistake, but you never know...

Was that for Bat III, or HCTB?

Pretty sure Bat III

I'm not. I'd rather everyone involved take their time and produce something excellent. Hell In A Handbasket was very good, but it was rushed. With a bit more time it could have been excellent. I don't want Brave & Crazy to be very good, I want it to be excellent.

Ha, I can't remember when Opera Star aired now. Wasn't it around 2009/2010? :-)

it was HCTB, Bat on Broadway was the used to big up Bat 3

Could have been! My memory is pretty bad, but I had a feeling it was Bat III

It was HCTB .. a deal that enabled him to be resident in London and travel all over Europe each week doing the media Playback Events for the launch of HCTB. And a smart deal too imo. Mea culpa .. and doesn't negate the point I was making .. but thank you for picking up on this inaccuracy.

Two of my favorite Meat Loaf songs, Paradise & Rock 'N Roll Dreams, were written by Jim Steinman.
And my other favorite, The Giving Tree, was written by Evan Watson. So I have to admit that I really
don't care who writes the songs for the new CD as long as they're great songs :-) Clearly Meat's excited
about the new CD .. that's what I'm happy about at this point and I just hope that the record label gives
him the support he deserves so that it's a huge hit for him :up:

As far as the shows go, we'll just have to wait and see what happens. But it certainly is fun to think about ...
it's all great :D

Which I agree, in a past post I stated the extra time will help. I was just stating from a fans point of view = I want the album now!!! That's all, we as fans get excited and can't wait sometimes.

You need to calm down. Nothing good comes from being premature.

I am calm!! It's you looking too much into it my dear, haha!!! All is good

Since your original post was deleted none of this makes much sense. Unfortunately I had been able 2 quote the post that you have since deleted. Only internet access i have is from my simple crappy cell phone which is very limiting. That's also why i only quoted part of your post here. I can't delete posts from my cell too. However i still did want to address this: You quoted what i posted as my opinion and then said, "YOU ARE WRONG" That is a very clear, concise & direct statement; No possible way to "blow that out of proportion". Saying YOU ARE WRONG to another forum member deserves a direct response. it's unacceptable to me. Deleting after doesn't change it. Mods can delete as they see fit. they have a hard thankless job which they do well.

Then you misunderstood me. I said it was outright wrong to refer to Jim as just another writer in the context of Meat's overall history, not that it was outright wrong for you to consider him to be just another writer in terms of your personal preferences. The first is a solid fact, not an opinion. Jim started Meat's career with Bat and then saved it with Bat 2. The second, you can feel however you want, I'm hardly going to dictate how you should feel (and that wasn't my intent in the first place either). I even said I agreed with you in being excited about more writers, so me calling you wrong wouldn't have just been rude and stupid, it would have also been hypocritical. James Michael and Rick Brantely have done some amazing work with Meat Loaf, I'm just as pumped for their stuff as I am for Jim's. Couldn't Have Said It Better, Did I Say That, Peace on Earth, Song of Madness etc rank higher than a fair few Jim songs for me.

That's the last I'm going to say about it. I'm sorry I offended you, and like I said, I did take it down because I figured it was probably going to cause trouble and the thread was derailed enough as it was and it was just adding fuel to the flame. A little like this is :bleh:

To be on topic, I'm curious as to whether or not some of the songs Jim is providing this time round will be the ones he wrote for Bat 3 that never materialised on the album. Paradise Lost, The Monster is Out of the Cage and the other ones that either I can't remember or don't actually exist (were there other titles mentioned?). I could see those plus Still the Children, Braver, Speaking in Tongues and a totally new one being the six.

I'd also love to hear Meat cover Rick Brantely's songs Free and Blue Bandanna. Those are just incredible songs that I reckon Meat could do great things with, especially the first one. I'd love to hear that done with a real piano :mrgreen:

So 8 Steinman songs is great news; I love Jim nearly named my black rabbit Stein

2015 is looking great already :) Russia and Poland for honeymoon than ;)

Also just found this post from Meat on his facebook page: ' I am being rewarded I am working With Jim Steinman again and there is no bigger reward than that in my Business too me . Thanks, M'.

Sounds like everyone's happy; can't wait to see what they come up with come album time! :cool:

He has a revised title .. Braver Than We Are

where did you see this???????

Meat posted this on FB:

http://media.mlxxfc.net/Braver.PNG

I love Meat, but I REALLY wish that he would proofread what he posts on twitter, forums, etc...

A Steinman title and now 9 (?) Steinman songs. The longer it pans out, the more likely it will end up as a full album. More reasons not rush it ! :cool:

Call me blasphemous, but I prefer Brave & Crazy. Braver Than We Are is a good name for a fantastic song, but I'm not sure it works as an album title. :shrug:

If the number of Steinman songs keep growing then it's going to force the rest of the songwriters off. Unless Meat does two albums. :rly:

until the next album :)

I'm sure that wasn't meant to rekindle a discussion we've moved on from, but I hope Meat sticks with what he has in mind (and I strongly suspect the "9" was a mis-type), as I'm looking forward to the other songs as well.

So do I .. but albums often take a title from one of the tracks I guess. I really liked Brave & Crazy, but the current title is a nice tribute to the composer imo.

The vibe I'm getting I think Meat would be thrilled if there was enough Steinman material for a whole album. And that's not to say that I'm not looking forward to any other songs he might record, but if his last album was to be an album by the two people that started this whole thing off, well, that could be a very cool thing :cool:

how many more twists and turns will there be?

Who knows ... but it's fun to think about :D

Braver than we are is a good title, it makes sense. As I'm sure the marketing team will push the steinman involvement to the max😃

Bat Out Of Hell IV: Braver Than We Are

It was, and a far more interesting discussion regardless of whether we've moved on from it or not. ;)

Not sure how or why you know what Meat has in mind, but from what I've seen (and I agree with Doode here) Meat appears really pleased with Steinman's greater involvement. :roll:

We may yet get another Steinman written and produced Meat album. How anyone can think that this is less than good, or not preferable to an album with a number of writers of lesser talent, escapes me. :twisted:

Because he SAID what he has in mind :roll: He has said which other writers have written songs, said there will be 14 tracks, and said he has 6 written by Steinman


Has anyone suggested he's not? I too can judge appearances. It would would of courses be pretty dumb to not say he was pleased, and Meat isn't dumb .. but I am sure he is genuinely very pleased.

Clearly it does escape you .. but I venture to think it is more a case that you do not want to entertain any view but yours and that of those who would vastly prefer an album entirely written by Steinman. Yet all the discussion about the Steinman penned songs on here seems to be about ones Jim has already written. Meat has said that he was persuading Jim to write a new verse for one. That's great. I don't know if he has written any new songs, but I do know that some of those suggested on this thread don't appeal to me as much as some of those more recently written by other terrific composers Meat has used.

I think it is demeaning to the other writers Meat has said he is using to continually diminish their talent. These are writers who have been and are now writing successful and excellent songs. In my view James Michael's Did I Say That? is a superb song, one of the best Meat has ever recorded. I could not dismiss him as being of "lesser talent".

What I find distasteful is that there seems an active and continuing attempt here to push anyone who likes other writers Meat uses into some corner where they are portrayed as bizarre and beggaring belief, or in some way disrespectful to, or "anti" Steinman simply because they DO enjoy the songs written by others, or odd because they trust Meat to be able to identify great songs penned by others and which make an equally powerful connection with them.

Some might very well think that to shut one's mind like a steel trap to any songs by any other composers escapes them .. I couldn't possibly comment.

[QUOTE=CarylB;601235]I'm sure that wasn't meant to rekindle a discussion we've moved on from, but I hope Meat sticks with what he has in mind (and I strongly suspect the "9" was a mis-type), as I'm looking forward to the other songs as well.



Judging by the fact that Steinman's involvement is growing and more of his songs are being added, it seems that Meat is looking forward to more of Jim's contributions, without demeaning anyone elses. If it was a mis-type wouldn't it have been corrected by now?
Also I doubt we'll see much more info on the album as what little we have had seems to have stirred people up quite a bit.
Caryl why do you seem to be so intent on wanting Meat to go with other writers? No hard feelings meant here but I am just curious.
My opinion is that Meat bring something to Steinman's songs that no one else can. FOR CRYING OUT LOUD is by far one of the most beautiful songs ever released.
I have no way of knowing what Steinman songs Meat will record on the new album. I have no way of knowing if they're any good or not. But I think it would be fair to say that the odds are that this will be an incredible record.

I think you will find it has been removed. Meat was at full throttle replying to a very rude and irritating individual .. I think it is more than possible that the "9" was a miss-key. Steinman's contribution has increased to 6 for sure. That it is still growing and likely to be more is an assumption. What I refer to as demeaning is the continual suggestion that other composers are lesser writers.

I think I have explained several times why I enjoy the other writers Meat uses. I have NEVER said anything against him working with Steinman .. simply that I like the songs from the others too, and that personally .. and musical taste is allowed to be personal .. I am just as excited to hear these other songs he has selected. I am not wanting Meat to "go with other writers" instead of Steinman .. just that I want to hear their songs as well. I do not understand why this seems to be seen as an either/or.

You perhaps had not read my reply to Paul Richardson when you were writing this. To explain in more detail why I like these other writers AS WELL seems likely to be construed by some as somehow "knocking" Steinman .. and I do not wish that. However, I will say that the metaphors in for eg All Of Me made an immediate and just as powerful connection with me as any I have heard. Others write songs for Meat which he delivers and which give me just as much pleasure as many Steinman songs. That is not suggesting Steinman is "a lesser writer", not taking anything from his undoubted brilliance or so many wonderful songs he has penned. I simply also love many songs written by others, so I am looking forward to them as well, and so I am not sitting here praying that Meat will jettison these.

I'd agree wholeheartedly that Meat brings something to Steinman's somngs that no-one else can. Have always said this. Yes, FCOL is one of the most beautiful love songs written by Steinman and sung by Meat. In my view Did I Say That? is also one of the best.

I'd agree. I just don't happen to think that it will somehow be a lesser album by including the songs that Meat has said other writers that I respect have given him and will be on the album as well.

I do not consider CHSIB, HCTB or HIAH lesser albums either. My taste, my view, my pleasure.

Kettle / pot ... pot / kettle. :roll:

I'm sorry, but I think this is somewhat hypocritical.

While you're entitled to your opinion, by any objective measure they demonstrably are 'lesser' writers, ie longevity, sales, charts, and - slightly bizarrely in connection with Steinman - output as well.

Then there is the subjective measure that Steinman has contributed to Meat's career to a vastly 'greater' extent than any other writer he has worked with - and I can scarcely believe I have to cite it here of all places - ie Bat, Bat 2, the defining moment of Meat's career and his comeback.

If this is not a reasonable definition of 'greater' versus 'lesser' I don't know what is.

Indeed, thank you.

If he is then that's great for him but given the situation that the message was posted in, I wouldn't be 100% sure that he intended to write 9 songs. If he did intend to write that there were 9 Steinman songs then fine, that's great for everyone who wants to hear that sort of thing. I don't believe that it should be compulsory to be excited that there are more Steinman songs on the album than was originally suggested and I'm no more excited for the album than what I was when it was first announced

I think that is a matter of personal opinion. I enjoy listening to the work of other writers and do not consider that they have less talent and I think that your suggestion that they do is rather demeaning. Although there are some Steinman songs that I enjoy listening to when they are delivered by Meat, my favourite albums are some of the later ones that do not have any involvement from Steinman and when I listened to HIAH, it was the first album that I'd ever listened to that I clicked with and loved on the very first time I played it.

You say that the sales and longevity are evidence that Steinman is 'better' than some of the other songwriters but HCTB and HIAH, both albums by writers that you are so rudely dismissive of, both achieved top five positions in the UK charts. They kept Meat in the public eye, showed people that he's still creative and keen to bring out new material and that he's still relevant.

Meats bringing out a new album ( that's the main thing). It will be a great album we all hope. I've enjoyed all Meats latest stuff, I even posted stuff saying so a long while back, he created a new fresh sound and tried new things etc etc,, some very talented young writers were involved. But it's the norm now and always has been the case that an artist will go full circle in there career. And if this Is to be Meats final album it's fitting that he ends it with Jim. What a way to go out. Steinman is a unique talent, I try not to compare people, but he is 100% unique. That's how I would best describe him. Nobody writes songs like him, and Meat seems over the moon about it. Lets all enjoy the fact that we are getting something new

Yeah, I heard that the directors responsible for Beverly Hills Cop 3, Terminator Salvation, and Alien Resurrection are working on all new films. I'm really excited. I mean, who wants the original guys back anyway.

That Cameron dude and that Scott guy for example. They were, like, wayyyy out of their depths.

I'm not saying their input wasn't important or that I didn't enjoy it, but I'm WAYYYYY more excited to see what McG comes up with!!!!!

:p

Okay, so that wasn't entirely sincere (jesus, I hope it wasn't), but you get the idea. I'm not trying to flame anyone or single out any person; it's just an illustration of how this same conversation seems to be going.

Time to move on already.

Yeah and remaking avatar too!!! It made no money at the box office first time out lol,, I'm actually starting to like the new album title,

Meat hasn't brought out a new album this century that I have not considered great :) I have no doubt I will feel the same about this one. You say " if this Is to be Meats final album it's fitting that he ends it with Jim". He is, and I have not suggested otherwise. But if it's to be his last (apart from the Christmas album) then I would like some superb songs from those talented younger writers who helped him deliver the fresh new sound as well. That is to me a fitting way to close, encompassing the best from a long career of great recordings.

I do not see where anyone has said they are "WAYYYYY more excited" to hear the songs by other writers. I am looking forward to all the tracks, including those from the likes of James Michael.

Those who would be way more excited to have a shorter album with nothing but Steinman compositions are welcome to their view. However, there is no reason at all why any Meat Loaf fan should feel differently, nor be unable to say this.

I thought that but Mr Richardson disagreed

I haven't gone back and checked, but I'm sure that's what started this whole discussion...

I don't think anyone has said that. There's been the odd piece of speculation that that's where it could be heading if the songs are available, but no one's said 'we don't care about the other writers' ... apart from those on the 'other side' who have voiced their opinion that they are more interested in hearing non Steinman material.

Also - 'a shorter album'? You lost me on that one.

I'm know this perpetuates the conversation, but your post was directed towards me so I replied :-) End of the day there's a new Meat Loaf album on the horizon with Jim Steinman attached. And, as it is at the moment, he's seemingly contributed over half of the songs on the album. I'm pretty excited about that; and from what I can gather Meat is too :cool:

Using this logic, the album should have songs from Diane Warren and Jacobs/Durkee as well.

I didn't ask how you will feel about the album Caryl? I just said the main thing is we are getting a new Meat Loaf album. I said it's fitting ending it with Jim involved. My post was not referring to anything you have said, this is fact!!! - most artists go full circle in there careers, I was just stating it's in my opinion great hes working with Jim again on it. If there are other talented writers involved - great!!!

Well my input does not add anything to the debate but this is how I personally feel about the Steinman news.

"Thank God, Steinman does half the songs. Even if they end up being his worst written songs it will still stay miles ahead from that trainwreck called Hang Cool Teddy Bear and it won't have that terrible hiphop-rap-crap disaster, just because it's trendy not to write music anymore. No more 'Little Johnies' and "Chuckies'on a Meat record! I say HALLELUJAH for the real music writer! Could it be more perfect? Yes, but only if Patti was there to sing Steinman. Oh well, No Johnies, no Chuckies and No Patti... Two Out of Three Ain't Bad"

(again, personal opinion)

You can continue arguing :-)

And I'd be vey happy were that the case

Don't see that I have said anything contrary to this .. in fact I have said several times it's great Meat has songs from Steinman on the album, and great that other talented writers are involved. That is what seems to cause the shock/horror/incredulity from some ;)

But not from me :-)