Of course, supporting the artist in whatever way you can or is right for you is what matters. ;) I don't think there is any checklist to pass to be considered a fan.


I know you didn't write these definitions, but I nonetheless disagree with the notion that to be a fan (of anyone/anything) you have to be totally uncritical. Take away the emotional component of the "relationship" between artist and fan (and I say this purely from the fan perspective, obviously), and bottom line, you are a consumer. The artist is selling a product. In that aspect, I'm not going to buy a product I don't like, even if that product is a record by my favorite artist. Of course, if the artist is my favorite, the chances of my disliking one of their records so much that I wouldn't buy it are small. I just don't feel that I'm obligated to buy it (or say that I like it) or turn in my fan membership card. ;)

This conversation is going to be an

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I am a Meat Loaf fan, have been since a young kid, I am now almost 31 so that is a long time, maybe not as long as others, but a long time. But this does not make me a bigger or less a fan of Meat than someone who became a fan last week, or last month or last year. I like Meat for his music, for his enthusiasm he has for his work, he gives it his all, sometimes it is not great, sometimes it is outstanding. What he does will not please everyone, but that is tough shit really, because he has got an awful lot of fans to impress with his work, and not everyone is going to like what he does. I think this is coming down to his recent piece of work, and who is going to like it, and who is not because of Meat's, I won't say modern approach, I will say different. People do have their opinions, but I think they do need to remember, if you are going to post any negative comments, not to cross the line, because at the end of the day, this is a Meat Loaf fan site, with many many Meat fans, who will defend the guy, and also it's Meat's site, he comes on here quite often. I know he knows he is going to face criticism with anything he does , but he has feelings too, and he works damn hard to try and please not just his fans, not just his label, his family or friends, but also himself. :D

Agreed, and saying Dude that wasn't your best performance certainly doesn't mean someone cares any less .. in fact it demonstrates quite a senstive level of care imo .. and paves the way for what is to come .. as long as that isn't a long list of failings delivered abrasively without any useful suggestions for what would improve it of course ;)

I guess for me being a fan means you care for the whole enchilada .. so includes both the performance and the person who gives it, and that means caring about their feelings (and even when we don't care for people, if we want what we say to do anything more than put them on the defensive, or have them simply dismiss what we say, then we need to find a way of telling them why something wasn't acceptable or up to the standard we expected so that it doesn't immediately evoke that kind of response).

To say for eg that a video doesn't really appeal to you although you can see the audience it's aiming at, but that you'd have preferred something more this or that is expressing your view in a way that is reasonable and unlikely to result in a negative reaction .. describing how the person looks in colourful or ridiculing terms that amuse you isn't helpful imo. It's criticism, but there's nothing very constructive about it ;) And if someone has invested time, effort and money in producing something, to suggest they throw it away and start again because you don't like it would be thoughtless, bordering on the arrogant or daft imo. For constructive feedback (or even criticism) to be any use at all it must offer something that is feasibly actionable, as well as delivered in words that are chosen with care so as not to hurt the person's feelings. And many fans simply don't have the performance skills to be able to offer the constructing end of the sandwich. I'm one of those, so I don't attempt to offer "constructive criticism". Doesn't mean I'm as "ass-kisser" or "sucking up" .. I can't offer credible advice to someone who has so much more more experience and expertise than I, but I can say what I enjoyed and why.

So true. Sometimes the things I see written seem to me much more about the disappointed feelings of the person delivering them. Such criticism is rarely, if ever, constructive. And bottom line, for me being a fan of someone means I would not want to hurt that person, and if I was angry or disappointed by something they did I would keep my fingers off a keyboard until I could be constructive.

Caryl

I’ve not been a member here all that long but this is a question that has been asked several times on other forums that I am a member of and each time it has made me stop and thing about what it means to be a fan. As a teenager it meant that I HAD to enjoy every single piece of work an actor/singer did but as I got older my thoughts on the matter changed.

- It’s okay not to like everything Meat does and it’s okay to have an opinion on his work but to me being a fan is to accept that he is human, he can’t be perfect all the time and that he has feelings. No one likes to have their work ripped apart and I imagine it’s quite upsetting if that criticism is coming from someone that calls themselves a fan. There’s nothing wrong with a little bit of constructive criticism, but it has to be written very carefully as things can easily be taken the wrong way. If I write something negative, I will always find something positive to say as well.

- Being a fan means that I look forward to each new project and that I consider each contribution on its own merits. Just because I don’t like one song on an album, or a particular album, doesn’t change my overall feelings about an artist.

- Just because I’m a fan of Meat Loaf doesn’t mean that he is the only artist I like. In fact Meat is one of two artists that I feel strongly about.

Your cubicle at work????

Nah, that's his pay scale lol

Having just put down the phone after talking to my boss about this years payrise ... there's no lol-ing going on here :p

See... I was right

being a meat loaf fan to me means? emmmmmmmmmmmm!!!!!
f**k its st.patricks day!! 13 pints and counting:D

If you can still count after 13 pints, then either you have a stronger constitution than I do, or you actually lost count at the 2-pint mark and have only had 1 since.

Dave

now that has got me thinking? and thinking hurts!!
no!! wait, the room im in is blue, but should be green? 13 pints so:D

It'll be green quite soon ...

not at all!! its only half time

I think it's possible to criticise something and make it useful, but not all praise is intended to be useful. I think some people give praise because they like to give credit where credit is due in the hope it will inspire more provocative and stimulating work.

Why post constructive criticism of an album that has already been recorded? Do you think Meat will go back and change it for you? Do you have some sort of obligation to buy it if you don't like it? Or could you just not buy it, say you don't like it and won't buy it if you feel the need to do so, and let others enjoy it without having to sift through all your negativity on what is after all supposed to be a fan club site?

This is what I don't get...why call somebody's opinion necessarily criticism?

This is a forum (please read the definition of forum)...We are all here because we're fans...and we want to talk to people who are fans as well...we want to exchange the opinions...good or bad...

Honestly...if I had to read here day in and day out...Thank you, Meat...I don't know if it would be worth coming.

Lucky me...I LOVE new video and it started the fire under me...so it's all good...

BUT...I am not less a fan because I don't own every single that came out. I am not less a fan if I don't like every single thing.

I AM a fan...just come with me to any Meat's concert and see me going into complete and utter rapture...I have yet to take a good picture or notice a problem during the concert...or be able to recreate a single set list...cause I am in rapture...

Debates are good, forums are good...let's just respect each other and Meat...

If I spend my hard earned money on a Meat Loaf product then surely I am entitled to give my opinion on it?

Give it a couple of months and they will disappear from whence they came. Until the next tour anyway! :roll:

I know...woodwork has opened up....

Of course! But I'm entitled to my opinion of French cuisine too - I don't like it. Yet I don't feel the need to go in to French restaurants, walk up to diners and tell them that they're eating crap.

Probably a poor analogy. Like I said, I get people coming here to weigh in on the single and say 'I don't like it because of a. b. and c.' It's the people who think they should have some sort of say in Meat's work and career direction who I think are overstepping the mark by a wide margin. Like a buffet, take what you want and leave the rest. But don't tell the chef how to do his job.

I think that's an excellent analogy .. :-) I'd also add that it's a bit bizarre when people merely scan the menu, or just taste the hors d'oeuvres before deciding the entire meal is terrible and a sell-out by the chef ;)

And a big difference between saying you don't like the food or style of cuisine because it's perhaps too rich or possibly not spicy enough .. that's reasonable. Denouncing it to all the other customers as crap or garbage is likely to get you thrown out of the restaurant and not allowed back ;)

Caryl

Yup - and rightly so!

it doesnt suck when youre a fan

At no point have I claimed Meat's new album to be crap or garbage. In fact I'm pretty sure my comment was that Los Angeloser does nothing for me but I'm going to wait until I've heard the album before I make any judgement on it.

I don't like french cuisine so I don't go to a french restaurant. I do however like pizza. If I happen to eat in Pizza Hut and they've missed the spicy pork off my meat feast then I will complain.

Ditto.

Indeed.

Except I don't go to Pizza Hut anyway 'cos one pizza would blow my salt ration for at least 2 days!