So the question is...is it the song or the production? and which ones in particular?

Pud :twisted:

well, this is risky cause it is a matter of opinion.
First, Steinman is the best writer.
Second, I have got critics on almost all his recordings allthough I think the songs are awesome.
What first spring to my mind is the way The Tyler Album from 1986 is produced. I don't like the overall sound. Too much backing vocals for instance. It gets in the way.
I don't like Boyzone. I don't like Manilow. I don't like the production on a couple of tracks on bat 2. The overall sound on bat 2 is overdone. it is not larger than life but is computerized and impossible to play it live. Allthough Objects is the best produced song I have ever heard.

I lprefer the recording style from Bat, Dead Ringer and Bad for Good.

To be honest, there needed to be a lot of backing vocals on Bonnie's songs, which takes the focus off of hers.

Boyzone's No Matter What, is a crap song fullstop. And if I'm not mistaken there was about 4 producers on that song.

I'm going to disagree with you on the Manilow version of ReaW, because I think the production is good, but the singing isn't.

Bat2 had too much Bova, synths crap for my liking, same as a couple of tracks from Pandora's Box.

Bat was awesome, Dead Ringer had a few faults and Bad For Good could have, should have been a lot better, as there's a few things on it that annoy the crap out of me.

Pud :twisted:

Okay Dead Ringer is dated and cheesy :mrgreen:. But listen to those piano arrangements. Same with Bad for Good and Bat. Have you ever heard such a piano? On later albums the quality of the piano arrangement wasn't nearly as good as on those 3 albums.
The only mistake I can find on Bad for Good is Jim's singing, the annoying backing vocals in the last part of the title song and Rory's singing on Surf's up. His voice is great but this song needs a big voice.

Don't understand me wrong. i love all of Jim's song and I love all the piano parts on all of his songs but again, the piano on the first 3 records were far better than the rest.

The only way we'll ever hear these songs is a) Meat Loaf plays them on the BAT 3 tour (which I can't imagine being likely) or b) Steinman includes them in The Dream Engine. I'll go with the latter...

I don't think that Read 'em and Weep and Gonna Love her are cheesy songs. Meat Loaf shouldn't have said that, IMO, because they are some of the most passionate songs I've ever heard (better than a lot of stuff on Bat 2).

Dead Ringer is one of those albums that looks to be a sunken treasure. There's seven songs on there, and only three or four have ever really gotten minor attention. Thye need to be brought back, re-furbished, modernized, exposed to the world at last.

I think Roy Bittan should be heavily praised for those, that's why I wanted him on the Bat3 project, and hopefully he is.

Yep, Jim's voice sucks. I'll have to disagree with Rory and Surf's Up though. Rory's voice and that song fit together perfectly I think, it definitely suits the higher pitch. That's why I'd love to hear a female sing it, despite the erection connotations.

Pud :twisted:

Well, actually, that's nothing compared to what I've heard a woman sing last week:

(from a rock opera, and this part, The Barbarian, was sung by a man)

Rob has updated his site. the show will last an hour (due to time restrictions). Said they are busy working in studio and rehearsing hall.

so they play only 3 steinman songs :mrgreen:

Right you are, Bart. :lmao:

J.

Even that would be the radio edits!

:twisted:

With all the love there ever was...

Dave

Your serious?
"Body" as a song has For Crying Out Loud-dimension IMO.
And it screams for Meats voice. From the moment I heard in in NYC last January I initially thought this must have been written by Jim with Meat in mind, cause it fits just so perfectly.

Too sad that its is not going to happen...

Sad? It is bloody awfull. It would be Meat's next number 1 hit around the globe. And now this Engelbert Humperdick is gonna get it. It is a real disaster.

Well, he can get it, he can record it and then the song will never be heard. It is a waste, A real waste.

What? Why are you so sure that body will not be on Bat3?

You mean with Engelbert Humperdick Rob Evan?

You are right. I am not sure. But I have a feeling it won't be there.
And the other question, you are right too.

And what means the name Engelbert Humperdick excatly?

I have read that Meat was angry when Rob sang Body in the Over the top performance. That would mean that Meat did want body on the disc.

It's all personal tastes, the song doesn't do much for me at all. But to quote myself Meat might have the song after all and Desmond Child worked wonders with it

Pud :twisted:

Manilow didn't like Jim's original's production. Steinman (http://www.jimsteinman.com/sexlies.htm):
"The version I did unfortunately never got heard - he refused to release it, and I had to remix it. It was very powerful, though, some of the best guitars and loudest drums I've ever put on."

So not true.

I fully agree Michael - and even though I am not religious - I pray it will be on BatIII...
And if it is not, I hope one day someone can explain what happened!?

Love,
Mariella

I'm sure Bart can :roll:

Pud :twisted:

From what i understand, Meat doesnt like the song. Or perhaps he feels its already someone elses song so doesn't want to compete? I dunno. I certainly feel its one of Jim's greatest ballads ever and would have loved to have seen it on Bat 3, but alas. I just hope SOMEONE does it (and well) on a studio produced version so i can listen to it without hearing glasses clinking and people talking...

I do not get it either. My thoughts about the song are at least the same as Michael describes. My heart skipped quite a few beats when I first heard it..

People say it is about money...... I really do not get that; have Meat to do it on BAT 3 and it will bring you lots of money. No offence to Rob Evan, but if he will somehow release it, how many people will buy it then?

me and you and then that's it! :mrgreen:

Some member had a word with Meat at one of his concerts..

They are lead to believe that Jim offered Meat the song for BAT III, but he didn't like it. Judged on Meat saying (recently) he dislikes Read 'em and Weep and I'm Gonna Love her for Both of Us (possibly my favourite Meat / Jim song), I can believe this. Steinman took back the song, gave it to Evan to sing at the OTT concert, and Meat probably feels "wait a minute. That's my property." Remember also that Meat missed out on Total Eclipse of the Heart and Making Love out of Nothing at All. I once read an interview where Meat said those songs belonged to him.

I also read another interview, from the 80s, where they are mentioned as cuts from Midnight at the Lost and Found. Wouldn't it be crazy if a demo, or something, surfaced?

But Meat, apparently, didn't like that song. Which I find really hard to believe, because I think (personally) it's the best song Jimmy's written since I'd do Anything for Love and Objects in the Rear View Mirror. And it really continues the feeling that's on Bat. It gives me this image that Bat 3's about old-age. Bat 1 was about teenagers, Bat 2 middle-age and Bat 3 will be an old guy.

This song is, whatever the case, a hundred miles ahead of "Only When I Feel" which I think, judging from Meat's interpretation from a crappy bootleg, is the worst song I have ever heard from him. Even worse than Blind Before I Stop territory

R.L.

EDIT: I take that back. Judging from Rob Evan's rendition it's BAT 1 territory. But the Meat Loaf version I heard is like a really bad demo from Welcome to the Neighborhood. However I will say: it's reminiscent of the arrangement on Original Sin

'Some member' and 'lead to believe' doesn't convince me (and I doubt many others) that this event actually took place.

Pud :twisted: