Hold up, if the posts about the US politics have gone then I'm not 100% sure what the thread is about? I'm close to lost :?

(For the record I'm genuinely asking, not stirring!)

:twisted: The thread is about the issue of Meat's responce to the reaction to his endorcement, and the voice thread.

Arguing the pros and cons of the health bill among ourselves have got nothing to do with what Meat has said about his fans, and this forum.
It's a fan forum, not a political forum.

If folks want to debate politics, there are sites for that very purpose.
The mods on those sites are, I imagine, better informed of the facts and better qualified to handle that kind of debate.

Here it does nothing but muddy the water and give folks something else to argue over in what is already a very highly strung thread.

Goodbye Farewell and Amen!!
 

I simply cannot get past how easily Meat could turn on his own fans.

I idolised you Meat! I have never criticised you nor have I done anything for you to tar me with the same insults you directed at your fans on here. I have spent thousands of pounds to see and support you.

Well it ends today, I wouldnt speak to my dog the way you have spoken to us on here, regardless of what the circumstances are or were.

Im out!

:twisted: Honest answer? Because I didn't have a fecking clue what else to call it.
I had considered "Meat Vs MLUKFC" but it seemed a little on the nose. :bleh:

Ok...so, for the sake of being clear, are you saying that people are allowed to post frankly and honestly what they think about what Meat said about the fans? That is what this thread is about?

:twisted: From what I can see, that's what the thread is about, and that's what people have been doing.

The only editing done to the thread has been removing any political debate over issues like the health bill.
As I say, we've got plenty on our plate without a political argument on top of things.

Well in which case, Meat - I think what you've said is sh!t.

I love you to bits, that won't stop and I'll still go on tour because frankly I'm in this until the bitter end now but what you've said here is horrid.

There are people here with debts up to their eyeballs, people who haven't finished paying off the last tour before they're trying to book tickets for the next one. You may think that we forget you as soon as a tour is finished but we don't - for many people here, supporting you is quite literally a full time job which impacts heavily on their every day lives.

We're all human, we all make mistakes, get things right and get things wrong, but you got this one wrong I'm sorry to say.

:twisted: Now THIS is balls :lawl:

Well said Lucy. :cool:

But some of us are interested in the US politics and how it differs from our own country, and Meat seemed willing to answer questions on it. I don't see a problem with that?

:twisted: Cool, ask Meat questions.

As for a free for all political debate, there are places on the web for that very purpose.

I said OK to questions about specific points of policy, because it's relevant to the candidate that Meat has endorced (and the one he didn't), and why it's a big deal.
Answering those questions using quotes, OK, fair enough, but personal opinion about your political views, post it on facebook rather than get into fights here about it.

While I appreciate an honest answer, I feel like you would make your job much easier if there were a clear stance on what this thread was for.

Perhaps a simple title like "Meat and the fans"

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Lucy, money is irrelavant, people make their choice to do all those things or not. He knows we don't forget him, he's not daft.

Can't you see that this is all a culmination of many years and years of Meat bashing here on this site by the same old few, and finally Meat has snapped and decided to do something about it?

To be honest, whoever was offended by the 97% sentence (which was a fake number anyway as explained) probably deserves to be in it, because if you know you're a good fan, and a respectful person who shows consideration for Meats feelings when posting, then your instant reaction is, well he doesn't mean me so i'm not offended. That was my reaction and that's why I have no problem with Meat standing up for himself.

EXACTLY! This isn't about a political opinion at all anymore. It is about bad, childish, uncalled for behaviour - from all sides! Some have tried to be respectful only to be insulted by the very artist whose music they adore. For any artist to insult almost its entire fan base is not cool. And if I were married to someone who continually insulted me & called me names, that would be considered verbal abuse and would be grounds for D-I-V-O-R-C-E!
Yes, I am now singing that country tune.

Meat please apologize. U can't lose Monstro or Neil or anyone else. Tell them u love em

Jesus H Tapdancing Christ, can we stop the nitpicking for once?

It doesn't matter wether this thread's called "Debate" or "Marmite", because everyone involved knows what this is about. And if not, he or she will find out very easily by reading the 1st post. Just do as Neil requested and leave your political views out of the thread. Thank you.

And while you are thinking about a clever reply to this thread, I ask you to think about what may have caused the 1st post.

:twisted: Please, please, tell me you're joking :facepalm:

Well, i have not been active in these forums too much.
But i have followed then all the time.


I have read this thread in horror.

Each and everyone of us have views on politics-I bet i would disagree with a lot of people.
I might not like someones views or who they support, but i respect them for having views


Meats voice-

Even Meat has bad days-he has admitted it himself.

I was at the Cardiff gig with my housemate up in the upperdeck right at the back(my housemate is disabled)
Yes the sound was not great, but we had a great time.
I have seem meat 11 times live and would want to see him again- its going to be difficult due to money problems.
But as this his his last world tour, i would move heaven and earth to see him live once more.


MLUKFC - Meat Loaf United Kingdom Fan Club

Should be a place for fans to come and discuss Meat, the bank, and his music.

Yes there should be criticism allowed.
But from what i have seen way too much recently it HAS GOT TO PERSONAL

I love it that Meat takes take out to post on this forum
He does not have to.

Sorry for the long ramble, but things went to far on both sides.
Hopefully things will get better.


To Meat

Yes please for dress rehearsal tickets


Regards

Julian

Whoa!!

Very different tone in Meat posts here. Like they are written by different persons. There are moments when he is obviously angry and writes insulting posts. Moments when he is calm and writes the way he ever did. I think he came up with the dress rehearsal invitation when he realized he went too far. Anyway let's hope that thing doesn't remain on paper :lol:

Sometimes I indeed wondered if it was really Meat considering those outbursts. Every time I met him in person he seems completely different.

To be honest it really doesn't matter, Damage is done. Can't undo what never should have happened.
No one should have criticized Meat for his political beliefs, that's very personal and for him to openly support anyone takes a lot of courage especially someone from the entertainment industry. You want to debate his choice, fine PM him and he can answer you if he chooses.
The thread about his voice, poor taste again. How many times do we have to go through that? For the record, I think that every album he has released has been vocally great, in it's own distinctive way.
To go on about the differences, pointless.
If we really want to criticize and nitpick and micro analyze every last detail of everything he does, no doubt your going to get an explosion.
Everyone is human and subject to the same human emotions.
Cut the guy some slack, let him do what he does best
Entertain us

The studio vocals on his recent albums have been outstanding in my opinion. I didn't think the vocal thread would last long, but surprisingly it was Very positive actually but I guess it's maybe hard to hear most people think the best vocals are in the past. Sad it's gone though. :shrug:

Exactly!!! Well put,, my name is not 97%, so I took no offense to it. He got pissed and went a bit far perhaps!!

I don't hate him either. I have always admired him. I do dislike some of his recent behavior. As you said it has been immature. at the very least. I will always love his music. It just speaks to my soul. That will never change. I will definitely be buying his next album.
AS far as going to a future live show, that will depend on his own behavior. As much as I love the music, I wouldn't feel right about supporting an artist who has in fact PERSONALLY insulted me! Don't forget there was an entire thread started by him specifically to respond to ME. Yes it was moved over to this thread. That makes this all very personal to me. I was singled out and PERSONALLY insulted by a very grown man who I had always admired and would expect better & more mature behavior from. I am not sure whether to laugh at the absurdity of it or cry because it hurt so much.
I did say some harsh things so I am a bit to blame. I was just expressing my feelings and even though I may have been harsh, I stand by the sentiment & truthfulness of what I said. As an artist who, by the very nature of his career, chose to live his life in the public eye, Meat should be better able & prepared to handle criticism from the public. Yes, he is human. Still to attack his fans and make it personal is unacceptable to me. Yes, it hurts
Obviously something I said, affected him on a deep level. If there was absolutely no truth to anything I said, I would think he would just ignore it and laugh it off. Usually people react like that when there is enough truth in what is being said to strike at the heart of the matter and touch a nerve.
Again, harsh or not, I do have "the balls" to stand by what I have said. You - both Meat and the rest of the fans - can agree or disagree with me. That is just how I feel.

As Romney win I'm sick of laughing!

:twisted:

Let him go to hell politics. All those who want to talk politics that go to the Capitol.
Meat, you are a person built for many years, are very intelligent.
I join you in this effort to try to flush out these few characters who just want to destroy what you have earned during these 35 years.
I hope they let us enjoy both of us as your IT.

A big hug and know that will never abandon you "Cacho carne" (is how you are known in Spain):D

Beyond that, I was disappointed with adjectives

Don't forget the man is an actor as well. And I am not saying that when you meet him in person, he is completely acting. Just saying that in public, like at a M&G he is putting his best self forward; omething we all do. In that situation he is more apt to keep certain feelings in check & work very hard at presenting a very positive in control image.
We have seen this side of him - the emotional outburst - before a bit. Remember Celebrity Apprentice and Gary Busey? He realized his mistake in that situation, admitted it and apologized. Hopefully this will be the same. He will realize that insulting his fans and the way he has treated people is not good behavior. And that an apology is required.

I think what people have to consider is this, joining a fan club site is different to a follow on twitter or a like on facebook, it is a personal thing. Many folks have been here for years and come regularly, its like a routine. that is dedicated fans for you! This is a place to discuss his work with fans- but what is amazing about it is the fact the man himself posts here too and for him to come onto the site and post such harsh things is simply shocking and damn right stupid. BUT for those like myself who are upset with his remarks that continue to stay here are a sign of how passionate we are and how much we love the mans work, but as a fan there would certainly only be so much I could take before I chose to leave and withdraw. Loosing dedicated fans should be a really big deal for Meat, no matter if he disagreed with their opinion on a particular matter- voice or politics.

From what I remember from the Romney endorsement thread people were simply discussing, debating the pros and cons of a public endorsement and their personal views concerning the candidate. There is nothing wrong with that, that is an interesting and healthy discussion that should have taken place. As far as the thread concerning Meats vocals I didn't see, I don't know what was said but all I know is from what I can remember seeing on other threads their was very minimal personal attacks especially in comparison to the facebook wall. Its been blown out of proportion and I hope Meat apologises for his remarks. 97% of his fans? Jesus that's worse than Romney disregarding the 47%- oh political point, is that allowed?

Clever. ;-)

I get that your hurting, but c,mon don't bring hes acting ability into it, you do not know meat on a personal level. I'm not saying what he posted was nice, but what some post about him is not very nice at the best of times. To be honest I think alot of people are playing the violin a little bit hard IMO. Again he should not of lashed out the way he did, but there are alot of devils with angel wings on here.

I meant it as at times we all put on a different face; if we are hurting sometimes we act as if all is fine; if we are mad we don't let it show & act as if nothing is bothering us; if we are sad we put on a happy face. It has nothing to do with knowing him personally. It is what we all do as human beings - put on an act. To a certain degree we are all an actor at sometime. Meat is just better at it, since he is in fact one by trade. I wasn't making a commentary on his acting ability really. If i was saying anything about his acting, I was being truly complimentary.
I think the post b4 the one you quoted made my feelings pretty clear. Yes, to a certain extent I am hurt. I was not lashing out at him in anyway with what I was saying in the post you quoted.

If I were to look up the word "irony" in a dictionary, I think the definition would contain this post. (And I'm not referring to you, Wario)

Not that big of a deal? I think it is to some fans who are clearly very hurt right now. I guess only some people's feelings are important around here. :roll:

If he simply wanted to meet with fans he could do that without charging...just saying.

But he couldn't give 30 prime tickets away for free now could he? M&G comes with a ticket too. This is a WIN for the fans. If he did M&G for free, then prime seats would likely go to legal scalpers (ebay/stub hub etc) and we'd have to pay upwards of $400 per seat anyway. Meat doesn't do M&G for the $....I think he's made it real clear that he isn't $ driven. But the M&G are a promoters package with the tickets.

I just don't buy what you are selling here. Seriously, the man is a professional and when he meets his fans at a M&G he is genuinely engaged. If he's had a bad day with the venue or travel or traffic or his soup was cold, it's all checked at the door before he meets his fans. He's appreciative of them coming (sometimes thousands of miles) and he makes fans feel special, as well as, in the moment. I always found him relaxed and in a great mental place for socializing.


It's his choice to apologize, but I see what Nikox1 sees. Devils with angelic wings....now playing a violin. 97% of the people will get the invite, 3% of those may be in the US unable to accept and of the remaining, maybe 50% will accept. If everyone is worried and fighting for their friends, why doesn't the friend try and get a message to Meat themselves? They have already made up their mind anyway haven't they? :shrug:

Which I wouldn't pay for, personally. I'm not singling Meat out, either- his are actually somewhat reasonable compared to what some artists charge, many of which don't even include the M&G. Often they include a bunch of what I consider worthless (or certainly not worth what you pay for it) merchandise. You want a front row seat for Bon Jovi? That will cost you $1500. Oh, but you get to keep your folding chair. :roll:

There are other means to thwart scalpers, if that's the aim. Springsteen does a lottery for the front row (the whole floor is general admission); scalpers can't sell a "front row seat", because there is no such thing. He's also done will-call only (with ID required) for the primo seats, and paperless tickets, which are non-transferable. Admitted, there are still ways around these measures (nothing is totally scalper-proof), but it slows the scalpers down.

Some artists have been known to do the M&G plus prime ticket package to benefit charity; now that, I might go for.

I would and I have....because he's totally worth it.

Kudos to Bruce for an alternate way, but I like the way Meat has his promoters doing it (and they avoid the scalpers too), it's nice and organized and you get the M&G with the prime seats. My local casino show that Meat does....no M&G are ever available AND you can only ever get as close as 3rd row with a legal scalper. Venue holds the cards regarding front 2 rows. Still, I hold to my opinion that Meat doesn't do the M&G for the $.

I am not trying to SELL anything, just expressing a thought. FACT is he is an actor and he can act. That is what I am selling. so you don't believe he is a good actor? OR you don't believe he can act?
And if you you had taken the time to read my post after Nixon's you would see that I clarifed what I said. You and I are actually saying the same thing. You are going to twist my words around for your own reasons, i get that.
As I said b4, I have the balls to stand by EVERYTHING I have said about Meat - both the positive & the negative. Up until this situation I had always been supportive of him and his work. I have admired him, said postive things about him, defended him when others have criticized him. I don't think anyway can dispute that too much.
I have been a fan of the man & his music since I was 14 years old. For once I disagree with him, since he is behaving badly. I have always spoken my mind. Anyone who truly knows me, knows that.
I have said that I am still a fan of his music and will always be. AT the moment I am disillusioned and a bit hurt by the man as a person, which I have also said b4. I am not alone in that feeling. If I were alone in that then this thread would be pointless, because there would be no DEBATE.

His ability to act has NOTHING to do with M&G interactions period. He's a professional. I can put on a smile going to work and I'M NO ACTRESS.

As a separate note, he's a damn good actor.

You are backpedaling NOT clarifying.

Your disillusionment is your own fault. He picked a candidate, you ran amuck on his page, he responded multiple times in a respectful manner there and now you come here and start the whole thing up all over again and NOW you're the victim. Please stand by your words and be a martyr for them ...go ahead and claim you did nothing wrong, just stated your opinion right?.... good on you.

Yet again, you are trying to twist my words. I realized after I read Nixon's post, that my original post may have been misunderstood, which is why i did take the time to clarify what I was trying to say. I wasn't back pedaling, just clarifying
ONCE AGAIN, my beef was not with his endorsement of Romney. My beef was with his immature and generally bad behavior in dealing with the aftermath. the last straw for me was him insulting the majority of his fan base and me personally. I actuallly feel honored that he singled me out; it means that he was paying attention to what I was saying and i made him think.
I will have to remember that you feel that insulting others is perfectly acceptable & adult behavior.
I didn't run amuck, I stated my disappointment with his endorsement and my feelings on what I felt to be immature and objectionable behavior in the aftermath. Yes, OTHERS, did run amuck. He responded TWICE to one of my posts on FB; the first was with some respect, the 2nd wasn't.
If someone comes at me, I will stand up for myself.
Yes, it is MY FEELING that I am disillusioned. Again, I am not the only one that feels that way. And ONCE AGAIN, if there wasn't anyone else that felt that way then this thread called DEBATE would be pointless & wouldn't exist.
I am NOT starting it up all over again. People like you keep coming at me and I will repeat AGAIN, I DO STAND BY THEY THINGS I HAVE SAID. People like you just make me keep on repeating it.
I am neither a victim or a matyr and I never claimed to be. Even though I may have been harsh, I didn't do anything wrong. I did state MY OPINION. I say what I think and mean what I say.

In some peoples defence, the thread title isn't very clear.

I understand that you don't want to edit ML's post, but the opening post just gives the impression of chaos and a free for all.

I think that you should edit the thread title to be more clear.

You know what? You're right.

Some people just aren't cut out for the internet.

Ding-dong. We have a winner.

I never for one second considered myself to be among the 97%, so I wasn't offended either.

Carole

I didn't read the "voice thread." I saw it start, and thought "ohhhh jeez." So I can't go down through and say, "Ok this post would hurt MY feelings, if it were about me," "This one would irritate me," or "THIS one would make me cry." I can imagine how it might feel, however, to have a group of people quite dispassionately discussing a part of me, a vital part of me with which I express myself artistically.

Discussing what you love most about how Meat expresses himself vocally is one thing, but criticising his voice itself is quite another. Someone asked why Meat didn't take the constructive criticism on board. We're not talking set lists or song arrangements or the Paradise skit here! I very frankly don't believe there is any such thing as "constructive criticism" of Meat's voice, unless your name happens to be Eric Vetro.

Meat is a nice guy; many of you know that. He doesn't become angry without reason. For him to post as angrily as he did, he must have been really hurting. Knowing that, I felt terrible when I read his first post, but at no point did I feel his anger was directed at me, so I took no offense.

Instead of taking offense where none was intended, those of us who do care about Meat as a person (as well as an artist) will continue to support him. My hope is that a few loyal fans who do feel offended now might reconsider, and upon realizing Meat has no reason to be angry with them, let it pass. Those on this board who don't care about Meat, or who feel no loyalty toward him, might question why they are here. "Just for the music" isn't good enough. The man himself is here, so this forum is as much about him as it is about his work.

-Kathy

.

That's exactly right, when I went to some of the M & G's in the UK during the Casa De Carne tour, Meat was being hammered by some of the press over there, the weather was horrendous for some of the shows and Meat and the band had got lost on the way to one of the shows. But he was warm and gracious to all of us, and even made jokes about what the press were saying about him. He really was a trooper. :-)

Carole

Neither did I and so neither was I. There seem to be a lot of peeps taking offence on behalf of others (a national pastime thesedays it seems).

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If someone tells 97% of a club or group I'm part of to go to hell, I'm not going to act like I couldn't care less, regardless of whether I feel like I'm personally counted amongst that number.

None of the posts in the thread warranted the response it got. Not. One. The absolute WORST statement made in that thread was "Meat's current singing style does not appeal to me." That was the exact level of consideration it was delivered with, too. There was "dispassionate discussion." Most of it wasn't even centered around modern Meat. At the time it was closed, it was praising Welcome to the Neighborhood era Meat.

For those of you who never got around to reading that thread, it wasn't "let's put his voice under a microscope and tear it to shreds!" It was a discussion about the different periods of Meat's career and how his voice differed between them. Like how it became more raw starting around the early 2000s. There was no one criticising anything. It was just...discussion. Normally what you do on a DISCUSSION BOARD.

Except this didn't happen.

Did you not read the first few posts of this thread? We were told we were evil, should go to hell, not buy any of his future work or attend any concerts. Oh, and we would be thrown out of the roof if we ever went to a Meet and Greet.

Good thing he's not planning to tour Australia again :roll:

This is fair enough. Thing is, I respect this. So do most, if not all, other people here. That doesn't change the fact that 97% of us are scum though, apparently.

I get the impression that Meat simply does not like people talking about him full stop, ignoring whether it is positive or negative. And that's also fair enough. What's NOT fair enough is that if you know you don't like that (and you're going to get it, when you have a career as prolific as Meat's) is going out of your way to actively find discussion and attack these people for being "enemies" (I'm sorry, but what the ~~~~), regardless of whether or not it was mean or not.

This is a fan forum. Everyone here is a fan of Meat Loaf. To say otherwise it's just stupid. Meat, if don't like people talking about Meat Loaf, then don't go out of your way read it and ruin the experience for everyone.

Sorry for singling you out, Kathy :oops: I've seen a few people going "Oh...I didn't read the thread, but the reaction must be justified anyway!" No, no it is not justified, and neither is you jumping to conclusions without reading the thread in question. I can understand being offended from the reaction to the politics thing. The abuse from that was plain unfair. This, though. Not so much :roll:

There is not. One. Single. Poster. On. This. Site. Not ONE that I can think of off the top of my head that deserves to be a part of this so called 97%. I think it's ridiculous to propose this at all when EVERYONE here is a fan, otherwise they wouldn't be here at all. Everyone is respectful of Meat here. They have to be, otherwise they'd never hear the end of it :roll:

Exactly, Mr. Happy. Although I'm beginning to wonder from what I've read if that statement is now out of date!

I agree with this. When I read the comments, I looked at them from Meat's perspective and asked myself 'what has made him post those remarks' I could see that there was a lot of hurt underlying the comments. I don't know the exact reasons why he was so hurt but he's not the only person to have ever said something he doesn't mean in a state of emotion and I'm more than happy to show him a little bit of understanding.

If people are offended by the remarks, I'm not going to say they are in the wrong or try to change their minds because that's up to them. I didn't believe I was included the 97% that was mentioned so I personally did not take offence.

Indeed, my point exactly - offence taken whether the statement is aimed at you or not.

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I was going to reply to Kathy's post, and the others who have admitted that they haven't read the Voice thread, feel like they have no need to, and have gone on to assume and judge it anyway, but Mr. Happy has already said it all. One thing I will point out though: there was a disclaimer at the very top of that thread stating that it was to be a civil discussion, not focusing on the negative and most DEFINITELY not condoning the posting of comments of an unconstructive or hurtful nature.

But not having read that, you wouldn't know.

And one last point here: there's an awful lot of you who believe you do not fall into the '97%'. I'd think about that, because the math doesn't quite work out...

P.S. Where has the 'dislike' button suddenly disappeared to?

It's there.

Are you trying to cause even more conflict by suggesting that more of us should be taking offence at the 97%?
I have no intention of 'thinking' about the math of it. If Meat Loaf thinks that I'm an evil person then he can, by all means, tell me so directly but until then I'll carry on believing what I damn well choose.

And even more who are still clinging to this 97% figure, that Meat has already since said was exaggerated.

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Thank you.

He's already said it was exaggerated so those of us who have not taken offence because they do not believe they were included in that total are quite entitled to believe that.

Really? I don't see it.

Without being drawn into this: no, I'm not trying to cause conflict. Hence explicitly making a post about not intending to cause conflict. Referring to a thread where I posted a very civil proviso at the top... to avoid conflict.

With regards to the 97% - I'm just expressing my own annoyance, and I'll leave it at that. Unless you make a post that requires a reply.

:tired:

This is getting crazy....


I think:
Man comes home tells his family to F off.
Family upset.
Next time man comes home man ought to apologise.
Family live happily ever after.

As the top on the forum says "we encourage honest opinion". Nothing in that voice thread was disrespectful, it was all honest. If we are forced to have to say "his voice is now the best ever" that's not honest. It would be propaganda and silly.
I know Meat wears his heart on his sleeve and probably some of the honest opinions do hurt him somewhat I guess, though I don't know why. If someone told me that that person loved my vocal during a certain era I can't understand why I wouldn't take that as a "Damn yes, I did that, this person loved what I did." instead of taking it as a constant negative "oh my voice isn't as good now."

I think Meat should be proud of his past career. I think everyone here looks at it with awe and most are still interested in what might be coming down the track.

Just as I did. And not because I consider myself some super fan .. simply because I like the man, have seen enough to know he's a genuinely decent human being, and my first instinct is to wonder what prompts a hurt and angry outburst from anyone I care about at all.

I thought of the stream of filthy abuse and threats he has had to deal with on his FB page. He then posts positively about a new tour and an album, and comes to his fanclub page to see the response from his fans; sees yet another thread about his voice .. and I DID read it, and there was a preponderance of posts suggesting that his best days were over. (And I agree with Kathy .. his voice is so much a part of who and what he is, I don't think there is any such thing as "constructive criticism" of Meat's voice, unless your name happens to be Eric Vetro either. Meat said some years ago .. I worry enough about my voice for all of us, let me do it please.) And when he comes to the thread about the new album, 5 of the first seven posts before he responded were hardly those of excited and happy fans delighted to hear there would be another album .. but more about "hoping" it would have Steinman songs, not have Avery songs, not be like his latest album etc .. Hardly what a performer would hope to see when he announces his new work in my view.

I'd say too, that at the M&Gs Meat is genuinely wanting to make the time the best experience he can for those there. It is not some well-disciplined act .. and I think it goes beyond professionalism too. It is about warmth, gratitude, and caring for the fans who are there.

The "maths" is an absolute distraction imo, and I don't think worth arguing. Yes, Meat exaggerated wildly because he was hurt .. but sometimes he may feel that there is an awful lot of criticism; I know I do, and I'm not the person who is the subject of it. Like Kathy, I hope that those loyal fans who do feel offended now might reconsider. I know that what he said was not directed at me; it wasn't meant to be directed at them either.

I also feel that continuing to slate him for what happened, stating he should apologise, disapproving that he let fly when he was feeling hurt .. all of this just makes it harder for anyone to say they're sorry. Andrew said man comes home, upsets his family, should apologise. I'd say, man may have had a really hard day. It helps if his family remember that, try to remember he loves them and may not mean exactly what he said, wonder why he is hurting, and don't keep rubbing his nose in his lapse. He will be feeling sorry, and will make it up to them.

To err is human; how many of us never err, never give way to our feelings and regret that we did? .. to allow others their human feelings, to understand and forgive is real humanity.

Caryl

If you read that thread: you should know better. If you picked up on the... wait, I'm counting, TWO posts suggesting that (in that persons own view, to their own taste) Meat Loaf's best vocals were several decades ago, then you read that thread quite selectively indeed, skipping the '97%' positive comments posted there.

And making money. I'm not saying that the above isn't involved, but let's not forget the real reason that all artists' Meet & Greets exist.

I'm getting really bored of this. This is a discussion forum, not a totalitarian regime. I'm not here to argue with you Caryl, or state the contrary to whatever you say, or even question your degree of fandom, but there are things I just can't agree with, and I'm not going to sit here and not respond.

Doode.

:lawl:

There was in my view a general tone that Meat's voice had had it's heyday with some graphic representations of his voice peaking and tailing away. It's gone now, so neither of us can point to this or that, and we shall have to agree we disagree .. But, again in my view, there have been enough threads about Meat's voice .. as I think the moderator mentioned when he stopped you discussing on another thread.

I was about to write a long reply to Kathy's post, but Mr. Happy has already said most of the things I was going to say.

I have just one thing to add regarding her "just for the music is not good enough" statement: To which extent someone gets interested in Meat Loaf and/or his work is up to them - not to you (Kathy), Meat Loaf or anybody else. This is a fan club - not a sect or a dictatorship. Following an artist is a personal issue and no one has the right to interfere with other people's lives that way. This is a fan site, it is not Meat Loaf's site. He is a (voluntary) member here like everyone else - except that that he gets away with breaking forum rules again and again.

Kathy, if you want to unconditionally support Meat Loaf, that's fine. Do as you please, enjoy his concerts. I hope that you'll also understand the point of view of those who have an issue with the way he treats the members of this forum. It's not that this was just a single outburst, it was one in a row of many. This is a place for people to discuss topics that are related to Meat Loaf, not a place for someone to take out their frustration on its members in the way Meat Loaf does.

There is an element of truth in this 'family' thing.
This fan club/forum seems to have all the dynamics of a family.
Meat is undoubtedly head of the house and we love him for being father and all the pleasure he has given us over the years. Yet, like any dad, he upsets his kids with his outbursts (whether the are justified or not).
But, like a loving family whose love is almost unconditional we tolerate this.
We know he has erred ( and not for the first time) so we mutter between ourselves how evil he his and then we keep our heads down for a while until he has had a good night's sleep and wakes up in the happy jovial and caring mood we know he has.
We won't leave and he won't leave. Because as the Mitchells (from Eastenders) would say " Families stick together!"
Those who have threatened to walk are certainly taking time to put their boots on!
But, I do believe a few need to recognise that Meat was a touch over the top.
Here's to a happy christmas and a rocking new year!

I've not said that he wasn't, but I see little point in going on about it over and over. I do believe that he probably feels pretty bad about it, as any decent person would.

I understand what its like to blow your top, and its a pretty crap feeling when you look at what you've done.

I'm still behind this guy 100% and never doubted it.

Sent from my HTC Incredible S using Forum Runner

Again, I think you've chosen to be quite selective with what you've read. If you need the proof to back it up, feel free to ask those who contributed to the thread originally.

With regard to the reply above: I think it says it all really; there's no point in even attempting to have a discussion if you're going to respond in a snide, derogatory way to what was a sincere post.

And for the record the moderation stopped 'a' discussion on another thread, he didn't personally stop 'me' from discussion. The subject was deemed off topic, hence the new thread which was on topic.

If you have a problem, personally, I'll suggest that you PM me.

Meat Loaf is an adult. He should take responsibility and take some of the realities on the chin.

Pitying a perpetrator to the extent some do here is something I would never agree with.

It's not always someone else's fault in my opinion.

I'm pretty sure no-one would have jumped to the defense if someone other than Meat Loaf had posted in that manner regardless of what had gone before.

I'm sure nobody cares but I just voted for President Obama.


And sorry if this is against any rules or whatever.

Was it against the rules to vote for Obama?:-)

lol no. I mean to share that info on this forum.

Hey if Meat can tell us who he is voting for so can you buddy. Good luck USA today, I hope you make the right decision. Who you elect matters and does effect the rest of the world.

"It saddens me to think that I can't turn back the hands of time "....
My favorite quote by a true genuine man, hopefully after today this can all be put to rest!!

Meat knows how I feel about him ... which, in all honestly, is all that truly matters to me.
So instead of thinking about what he said, why not spend the time looking at yourselves and
think about why he felt the need to say it ?

Well I guess something about reason and respect. Which were both missing in his post.

But then again it would only have been important to some of us here if it was said TO Meat Loaf. Now, because it bursted out of his mouth, we should wave it away and find guilt in ourselves.

So I humored you and looked in the mirror and my conclusion... On the vocal issue he had NO reason as it was discussed with the most respect. And for the political issue he had to respond because some of us felt we had to respond on something he himself started in public. Something he knew all too well would create discussion.

Either way Meat is at least equaly part of everything. Although some use a well mannered tone and others not so

Hey you guys....Realviking is back ;-)

Got quite dry eyes from reading all the comments in this forum.
First I was shocked, then I got angry. After a while I got heart beat, now I'm calm again ;-)
Was a lot to read through, a lot of opinions and angry comments. Not only from the Meat, but from the fans too.

I live 10.000 mil away, far over the big sea, and has no knowledge to Usa `s policy, and therefore I feel I`m not the one to start disscussing this.

Everyone, and I mean everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but not everybody has the right to use these to defame / bully one individual.
You can say your opinions in an adult and respectful manner.
People who criticize and destroy will always exist, but the way the rest of us with a heart of respect and love can handle it, is what matter.

For my part I've fallen in love with Meats music and his personality and devotion to family and people around him.
This has made me a better "thinking and loving" mom and girlfriend.

I became a mother for the second time on August 13 this year, to a beautiful little boy, and when I was in the hospital with terrible pain, I had Meats music in my earplugs. This calmed me incredibly much.

Hoping to go to the UK in April, and finally get to experience this live.
I can honestly say that I am a true fan, even though I don`t agree everytime with Meats comments.
I don`t agree with my fiancee everytime, but that doesnt mean I don`t love him ;-)))

See ya`ll later, alligators ;-)
Hugs from Tine

:yep: As for his complaints about the reactions to it: He did not just state that he favored a particular candidate. He campaigned for him. He publicly urged people to vote for that candidate and talk everybody they know into doing the same. He just didn't tell people to wear blue socks instead of grey ones, he told them to do something that might affect their lives, the lives of their fellow countrymen and probably the lives of people in other parts of the world, too. That's not a careless decision to make. The moment you do that, you take on responsibility. If you decide to enter that minefield called politics, have the guts to deal with the consequences of your statements and actions. Expect that what you say and do will come under scrutiny and that there will be people who disagree with you.

Don't look at just one thread only. Look further and take time into your consideration. Do you think this issue started just recently? I'll answer that question for you: No. I just skimmed through recent posts and wrote down a few words that got my attention. Here they are: And now, look at the top left corner of this page. Right, that's his stage name, his trademark. Imagine there was a website with your name on top and on that site people would post comments like I mentioned above regarding your work/art over and over again - how would you react?

Yes, exactly ! Thank you !

Yes thank yo very much...CHSIB :)

As I said, some people are not cut out for the internet.

Yes it was rather, I do apologise. I can't think what came over me.

No, I read every post. What I should have said was that it was the impression I was left with. Perhaps Meat did the ame.

Thank you, but no. I learn ;)

Thanks for asking. My answer: Not the way Meat did. But you don't have to take my word for it.

I believe Meat started with
I wouldn't say that to my fans. Are the people here always 100% positive? Thank God no. We're not a cult we are a fan community.

Would I handle things differently? Absolutely.

You see, and I mentioned this more often, Meat comes here, most of the time only responds on the negative he sees and eventually bursts in flames.

If this site would have my name and I was carrying the succes I would at least acknowledge the people here that do suport me and, maybe this is a difference, discuss their unlikings as an adult.

There is no way you can please everybody but if you're in the business for 48 years and come here to feed on negativity (which, by the way, isn't always as negative as Meat claims) you're bound to get upset every time you come here.

Sorry R. but I couldn't disagree with you more. I appreciate you come out and express your opinion but the outburst of Meat Loaf here was uncalled for. No matter how much words from posts you quote. And certainly if all these words come back in one single post against a fictional 97% of the fans.

Were I as passionate and committed to what I did? .. I would be hurt, disappointed, tired of it, baffled, and I might well lose my patience and my temper at a final straw I felt laid on my back.

Caryl

I agree with R. 100%!!!!

me too.

Btw what's wrong if you find that Meat's voice was fairly good? or if he Struggled. Or even if it's far from perfect? He's human and we should be able to point it out. Half of your list are observations from fans. Sorry if in your world Meat never missed a note. But in the real World we think differently and we like to share that with other Meat Loaf fans who saw, hear and can comment on it.;)

To be fair though I have caught flack for pointing out that on here every show is "perfect", "amazing", "note perfect", etc. There are posts that go to either extreme. Meat seems to be preoccupied with looking for the negatives or paying more attention to them. I wasn't exactly popular for backing his decision to do the endorsement either. Yet at times I have been clear that his voice is always changing, I think sometimes due to how much rest between shows. I thought he sounded fine in-person back in August. I try to call them as I see them and there is little middle ground on the forum, it is either "perfect" or it "sucks" on here it seems at times. Sometimes both are true (although "perfect" is very rare by definition), sometimes it lies in between. Probably most of the time it doesn't really deserve to be said to "suck" either.

Now, what if that behaviour would last for 5 years and longer?

All of them.Quit interesting being called delusional from someone who knows absolutley nothing about me. Is this that what you call respect or did I just read that wrong?

Again it's also a big part how you handle it yourself. Meat doesn't seem to handle any for of critique quite well. You can hardly blame me for it.

If he went out, focussing more on the positive (which is more than plenty on this board) he would have a more pleasent time.

Interesting. Does this mean you think people here should only point out what they considered to be good or fantastic. And keep their mouths shut if they consider it differently?

I haven't called you delusional. I guess you really read that wrong. But sorry if I gave you that impression.

True.

True again. Most likely because of the top left corner I already mentioned.

I get Meats anger, I understand his frustration, he gets criticised on facebook and on twitter and then comes to the site that bares his name, his fan club and finds critics here too, some who are perhaps far too harsh. Difficult to take for an emotional guy such as Meat. BUT 97% is a ridiculous exaggeration and a foolish statement, his words were wrong and hurtful to many, he over stepped the line. There is no denying it. To come to a tight community which as a whole represent a small but dedicated proportion of your fan base and use such language is just stupid. However in a way I am glad he vented his rage here, took out his anger in a more personal and arguably forgiving environment because if he did it on FB or twitter then IMO it would have been even more damaging to his character.

:twisted: If fans have the right to speak up for Meat, fans have the right to speak up for their friends.



And if it were changed now some people would wonder where the feck it is :wtf:
See R's post. Doesn't matter if it's called "Debate" "Marmite" or "Kevin", we all know what the thread is about. I've posted it myself several times.


Same here.
Rightly or wrongly I support this community.
I think that the minority of critical posts gets more attention than the majority of postitive and supportive posts.
It's the squeaky wheel that gets the grease :shrug:

But I thought that Meat was far too harsh in his distain of this forum and the people who post here.
He said "97%"
In the last 24 hours, 185 registered users have visited this forum. Take into account that this thread has resulted in it being a heavy traffic day too.
That means (on a busy day) there are less than 6 good fans on this forum. The rest are deemed evil.
If you read posts by six people you consider fans, it means that you are not.
So yes, I find that unfair, and insulting.



Then it would be nice to have a new estimate.


Perhaps because some people believe that?
I myself said I thought his 88 Live album was the best i'd ever heard.
On the face ot it, if you really really want to take my post that way, you could say that I was saying Meat peaked in 88 and it's all downhill from there.

But I also posted that I still got a lot of pleasure from his work, that i've ALWAYS taken a lot of pleasure from his work. From the first era to the present day.
Now is that really such an offensive thing to say?
You didn't, Caryl, because you liked my post. ;)

I say, with no problem or regret at all, that I peaked as a magician at about 20 years old. It was at my most creative (in that field) my interest in the field was still strong, the hands were fast and the brain was quick (believe it or not :p ).

That doesn't mean that I still can't change your religion with a deck of cards.

Being past your peak is no big deal as long as you can still do it better than anyone else.


Yes, I stopped the discussion on the general condition of Meat's voice on the Endorcement thread.
Like this one, that thread was far too hot as it was without adding a big off topic debate into the mix.



Because folks have been insulted, and are pretty pissed off about it.
You might as well ask Meat why he feels the need to go on and on about things he's read on the forum or on facebook.

At least the things posted here are generally honest opinions that are posted with no other reason to express themselves to other fans.
They are not posted with an intent to hurt Meat, or to insult him personally.

What Meat posted here was intended to offend, hurt, and upset.
That's the difference IMHO.

If someone treats you like that, you shouldn't turn your back on them, not if you love them, but in all fairness it's perfectly normal to stay pissed off at them until they say that magic word, sorry.

If I spoke to Meat the way he spoke to us, I wouldn't expect him to forgive me until I apologised. And quite frankly, I don't know if he would. I don't believe he has that much interest in me to think forgivness warrented if I spoke to him like that.

As for myself, I don't need an apology from Meat.
I still love the guy.
But it would have been a nice gesture, and it would have gone a long way, and brought back a lot of respect from a lot of folks :shrug:


Hell yeah, we've all done it.



Me too.
But i'm still behind this community too.
If two of my friends fall out, I don't have to hate one of them.
I might not agree with one of them has done, but it doesn't mean that I shoyld desert them.
The two of them heal the rift, and things go on.


That's right, and I could have fecking killed you for opening that thread :bicker: :lol:
As i've said (several times) as soon as I saw the thread appear I thought it wouldn't get past the first page before it was locked, but I was proved wrong. The posts were respectful, and mostly positive.
Nothing was said to be hurtful or snide, it was just fans talking about their favourite artists various eras. I couldn't argue with it.

Maybe this should be an adoration board then instead of a discussion one.

Anyway I'm out Ajax is Playing Man City. And as an Ajax fan I expect the worst :evil:

Did I blame you? I'm pretty sure I didn't.

No.

Ok, I just read that wrong then.

Originally Posted by Adje:
Interesting. Does this mean you think people here should only point out what they considered to be good or fantastic. And keep their mouths shut if they consider it differently?


Are you sure? I understand that this is your site, but that does come across as being the general philosophy.

Yes, I am sure. Otherwise this thread wouldn't even exist.

Then what is wrong with saying "Meat Loaf struggled, wasn't far from perfect,' or 'his voice was fairly good' ?

It's not a rude word choice or anything. I agree it's not positive but it seems honest opinion.

Who decides what's rude or not? You or the person you are talking/writing to?

Off Topic: How's Ajax doing?

For years we have walked on eggshells on this board about what is acceptable to say lest Meat read it. Never mind that most of the time it was positive, almost to a sickening degree by some, Meat chooses to read the stuff he feels is negative and react badly to it. I am very sad because his last interaction with the board a month or so ago was quite pleasant and he shared a lot of good information, now he tells 97% where to go. Almost as has been said like it was posted by 2 different people though I am sure Meat did his own postings. I don't know if I'm in the 97% or the 3% but I'm going to call them like I see them. Telling your loyal fans who almost worship you to go to hell is probably a bad idea IMO. At least I feel like the eggshells are gone, hopefully for good.

Yeah, I was surprised by this. It's a good thing; a step in the right direction.

A small one that needs working on if you want to keep people posting here.

I'm optimistic :cool:

Again, that really says it all :roll: If you can't be civil (or even back up your own arguments without resorting to sarcasm and snide remarks), then I'd rather we just didn't.

So do I, Suzieq!! I have a big complaint for him, however: R. needs to implement a TWO Thumbs Up button, so I can use it on his post (lol)

I second that :up::up: