This conversation makes me SAD. we've done this SO MANY times since I came here.

Hey maaaaaa, we want Meat Loafffffffff

I wasn't 'rudely dismissive' - I didn't say the other writers were 'crap' for example - just 'lesser' than Steinman.

HCTB or HIAH may have done well, but neither reached the top position in the UK charts or sold 40 odd million copies on the way to becoming one of the best selling albums of all time. :roll:

Fair points I agree, then again adele with 21 sold nowhere near 40 million. Times have changed sales wise.

Neither may have reached the top of the UK charts, but comparing total sales is pointless consider Bat is over 30 years older than either HCTB or HIAHB :roll:

And I simply completely disagree with your opinion that writers like James Micheal, Rick Brantley, and Evan Watson are "lesser" than Steinman.

The point was that the two are in different leagues when it comes to their success. :roll:

The point :roll: is that it is not a fair comparison :roll: who knows what HCTB and HIAHB will have sold in 20 years from now. Could be a completely different landscape, but with the short lifespan the 2 albums have had, you simply can't put them toe to toe with a 35+ year old album like Bat

It's sad this thread is totally going off topic constantly but what I find REALLY sad around here is that some people seem to want try to dismiss Jim Steinman as just another song writer / it doesn't matter. I'm sorry but I really think Meat and Jim's history together is worth more than that regardless of what specifics you can think of. They both created this entire musical world to begin with. To try to tear down Jim's songs before we even know what the hell his contributions are is simply wacko. You'd rather hear another songwriter? What's he going to write? How do you know?

It may not be a big deal to those that look at albums consisting just of some songs anyone can write but to Meat who called Jim a songwriter like no other at Jim's induction in the songwriter's hall of fame and his best friend in the entire world it IS a big DEAL.

So let's be happy for both of them.

I thought this album was a Booh Reunion or sorts. I hope Jim will be fully engaged in this album . I have some Steinman songs I really want to see done properly, but 2 of them are not really songs I would expect Meat to sing. One is Safe Sex and the other is [B]Tonight is what it means to be [/B]young. I also like most of the songs selected for the Bat Musical and some from the past from the Blind album, Sailor to a Siren. It has always been one of my favorite Meat songs and I would so like to hear it done again, without that wall of sound.
Anyone else have a wish list of songs you hope to hear ? Children is high on the list. I would have put " Body": at the top of the list. I think it has the potential to be as good as FCOL. It is a incredible song. It is a little painful knowing Meat won't be doing this song on this album. It is so worthy.
I'm going to be fine with other writers too, after all, one of Meat's best songs is " Amnesty is Granted" .

Graveyard shift would be cool!!!

check out this video someone put up for "Brave than we are".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHfo_I1Lp18

other songs I'd like to hear on this album
vaults of Heaven

possibly some more songs from his Best of album.
I guess I can keep dreaming

It is really, really, really sad that it's not possible to include What Part Of My Body Hurts The Most on the new album... :(:(:(

I LOVE this song and I wish I could hear Meat sing it... It would really be a dream come true.

To Meat:
Is there absolutely no little tiny chance to include a recording of this song on the new album?

Personally I think its rather sad that someone can call ANY album of Meat's a 'trainwreck' on a site that is dedicated to Meat Loaf but if that's the way they feel about it then that's the way they feel about it.
For years I'd listened to Meat Loaf's songs without even knowing who'd written the songs in the first place and it didn't really matter to me and even now I'll listen to a song on the radio or something and enjoy it without putting much thought into who has written it.
Nothing anyone says will change my opinion on Steinman and I refuse to be dictated to about how I should feel about the increase in his contribution to this album.

But it's okay to dismiss the other songwwriters by calling their songs 'fillers' before we know anything of THEIR contributions? I think that's a bit of a double standard.

temp
 

What I think it really sad is that we're 22 pages into an argument that's been had countless times before and will be had again!

Generally there are two main groups on here - those who think Meat needs Jim to produce anything decent and those who love Meat's work regardless of who's behind it. We know that, it's always been that way and I'm sure will continue to be, so do we really have to go through this every time there's news?

What is also very sad is that a reasonable request from the mod team is completely ignored by everyone involved in the "dicussion".

It stops now please! Final warning.

So does anybody have any idea what songs jim could be using for the album? I remember Meat mention a song scars? He said it was a great song. Not sure who the writer is or if he even mentioned who.

I think to dismiss any songwriter is very disrespectful. Anyone that can get a song on a Meat Loaf album deserves all the respect in the world.
Meat is the one picking the songs and he clearly is leaning towards Steinman songs. Doesn't mean the other writers weren't up to par but as Meat has said he wants to work with Jim again and now he is.

I do think that was a Steinman one and I think someone pointed out it could be related to "Only when I feel"?
It certainly seems to be in the same kind of train of thought as that one or Body just going by the title.

From only when I feel: "There are scars on scars that I know will never heal"...

I think that's why a lot of people like Body it's all about growing older etc.

I wonder if it is the song Paul Crook referred to as being awesome but we shall see.

Looking forward to what the coming years will contain from Meat Loaf :) I am genuinely excited :)

Sent from my GT-I9197 using Forum Runner

I'm convinced that Meat's choice which songwriter should be on the album, beside Jim Steinman, will be the best choice of all. ;)



PS. In my humble opinion there is (at least in this moment) plenty of place for other songwriters (for example: James Michael or Rick Brantley).

:up:

OT: Watching from the bat caves :-)~
 

Loooooooooooord!

Exactly!!! Bring on the crashing pianos, the thunderous drums, and passion like no other can deliver ( amen )

Teenager in Love

".... my dreams are highly flammable..."



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYQxzgRkFUs

If you're referring to my request earlier in the thread: I asked for the thread to be split as it'd gone off topic, and I could see it being locked in the near future if things continued in the way in which they were going. A separate thread would've enabled the discussion to continue.

You can't compare them because some of the albums you mention are very good, but one is a work of genius. How's that for positive discrimination ?

I doubt whether HCTB or HIAH will be much more successful in the future than they have already been. For me they lack the timeless quality of most of Jim's work.

Also, regardless of whether this argument is off topic or not, at least its created interest and generated posts, this site has been deadly the past few weeks ... my opinion.

It amazes me how some people have 'disliked' a post I made calling for a thread split - then disliked the post where I explained why - when said thread split was only requested out of an attempt to keep everybody happy by splitting the discussion so that those who want to discuss can discuss, and those who don't have a clean thread to continue talk/praise on Meat's 2015 plans :roll:

As one of the two "some people":

The moderator decision when you first asked for the thread to be split was that discussion about the album was part of Meat's 2015 plans. I fully accept that decision.

Those who want to express why they would prefer all the songs to be Steinman penned, and those who like those penned by other composers have had ample opportunity to do this and have done so. Each side of the argument are equally committed. No fresh views are emerging, just more entrenched repetition or startled/amazed reactions imo. It would seem that others do not wish to pursue this, may even wish it to stop.

The moderators have asked for those who have been involved in this debate to stop. I am sure Rainer has made it clear in the past that challenging moderator decisions should be done via PM and not on the board. I fully accept that request and that ruling.

That's interesting. When I originally called for a thread split the conversation hadn't, at that point, reached its conclusion and the debate was still going on. I've since said that the discussion seems to be over - as Meat confirmed his position on Jim Steinman as someone invaluable to his career and not 'just another writer' - and I then suggested we should move on.

I don't think many here have said that they want all the material to be 'Steinman penned'. Some may have, but it's not the general consensus from what I can gather. If you recall, that's not what this discussion was about. It was about the air of passive negativity some (half) expressed about the inclusion of Jim Steinman's songs on this forthcoming album. I still don't understand why it has to be 'The Other Writers' VS Jim? That definitely wasn't my position.

I did PM Andy, but he said it would be too much of a hassle to split it given the work involved. So I said fair enough and we went about our business. My post above wasn't questioning a moderator decision, but those who have reacted negatively to my reasons why.

But I do wonder why you seem so adamant for discussions to end, even given a dedicated thread... it's just ... weird, given that this is a discussion forum. Anyway, I'm answering you here, in this thread, as you have ignored all previous PMs that I have sent you, including the one explaining the above in what I thought was a very polite and friendly way.

So let's try and move this one on again, and if you have any comments or want to make a response to me about any of this - feel free to PM me, and hopefully that's an end and we can get the thread back on track :-)

I wish we could all just get on without having to resort to threats of locked threads and silencing people.

I'm not "adamant" .. simply agree with Andy, and responded to your amazement at my disagreeing with your post. (I hadn't read your PM when I replied, but since you raise the matter publicly here of my failure to reply, I will explain, as simply and courteously as I can. My choice is to not enter into any correspondence with you that is not on public view, which is why I did not reply to a previous one.)

I have seen no "threats of locked threads and silencing people." .. simply a request to move on from a discussion going round in circles, and one which I sense many are tired of seeing.

The Doode abides! :)

Yes, I'm tired of seeing it.

I've already requested that you PM me. If you don't wish to do that then it is you who is continuing this discussion by forcing it to take place here. I could choose not to reply, but you seem to think that I have some cause to be 'in the wrong' here, which I really don't :roll:

EDIT: It's only fair to warn you that I've had to now report your last post for propagating the argument and refusing to discuss this matter privately, as requested by the mods. I'm pretty sure we're going to be heading for thread locking/cleaning in the immediate future.

This could've been avoided.

I agree, lets stay on topic. We have a great new album to look forward to. Mind u I understand some people's annoyance on here, with people who hide there cheap shots with fancy words.

I wonder if Meat's going to go all out fantasy with this album, or whether we're going to get a more grounded, personal collection of songs? Either way, I'm really looking forward to what comes out, and at the same time hoping it won't *really* be the last one...

I think its going to be more bombastic wall of sound and definitely over the top.

I'm hoping for some beautiful ballads too .. but Paul, referring to what he and Meat had been working on last October, promised some huge, "blow your mind" rock .. so I think you will definitely get your wish ;)

In a Peace on Earth way, or an AFL kind of way? I guess you could argue that both songs deliver that wall of sound feel, though they're completely different in vibe and subject matter. Middle of the road between the two would definitely be PFL, for me :cool:

Lets hope it's a bit of that old magic!!!

my comment about "why mods?" was only related to our wishing and dreaming about what the new album will be like. I was not referring to anything else. I too hope for some ballads, they are my favorite. ( but I wouldn't mind one all out rocker). This album sounds like reality now and it is just exciting to hear what others are hoping for.
remember the old song, I think Dusty Springfield sang" wishing and hoping"
All I am reading is some want Steinman all the way and some don't care. Not sure how that makes a controversy ... but for my part, I can go either way.

I really think we can count on that. If you get the chance check out the SIXX AM song SKIN and imagine Meat singing that. James Michael wrote it.

Stunning song indeed

Wow. Message board politics.

Retardery at it's finest.

On the contrary, I find it endlessly fascinating. ;)

end of the day.... its gona rock!!!

I'm pretty sure that is the view of everyone lurking and posting even if they can't admit that here. Else why bother coming back here.

Endlessly fascinating to observe retardery at its finest.

Indeed, plus the cowardly keyboard warriors

Always thought Nikki Sixx & James Michael should have done a full album for Meat or perhaps contribute along side Paul Jacobs & Sarah Durkee. I think those sets of writers have provided my favourite non Jim Meat Loaf songs.

Remember hearing a snippet of DIST back in 2002 and got quite excited. The title track CHSIB I think is a superb song I wish Meat had done a bit longer live on the tours. I'd much rather hear it than say Pigs or Break It.

Yes, I'd have loved to hear what Meat could do with this song .. James Michael writes some superb stuff I think. I'd also have loved to hear Meat put his unique take and passion into Making Love Out of Nothing at All .. for me he synthesises "power" and "ballad" in a way no other can

That and Total Eclipse were supposed to appear on MATLAF but the record company weren't prepared to pay for them. I suspect if Meat was going to sing Making Love he would have by now.

I would love to hear him do it though. Bonnie Tyler's version was fantastic in spite of her vocals. :lol:

I know ... I don't expect to hear it, just said I would have loved to have done back when the possibility was there .. both of them in fact

Personally that's what turns me off her records

IMO that's her song.

Him doing TEOTH would be like her covering "Two Outta Three Ain't Bad".

Total Ecplise, Making Love, Safe Sex and It's all coming back to me now really seem like women songs to me. Sorry if that sounds degrading and sexist but staying in those kind of conventions in Steinman land these simply don't appear as songs that would be sung by men to me.

As these songs were quite successful in their own right by the original artists (or other covers) I see totally no point in Meat revisiting those. IACBTMN was a poor excuse to create a duet in my opinion.

That was a mental cover.
It sounded like Steinman trying to make sense out of dance music, which was weird. But it was not as bad as Todd Rundgren's cover which is one of the worst things I've ever heard in my life.

I wonder if PFL will be on the album? And if it is, will it be re-recorded and re-arranged/produced?

It doesn't need to be redone. It would be a wonderful surprise if it were included but it sounds like there may be too many songs already. Note not every song that is recorded always makes it onto an album.

Agreed, but I'd imagine it would be re-recorded if used, as the original - as great as it is - still has a little 'demo-ish' vibe about it. Like it's almost there, just pick up the vocal in the first verse and add some slightly heightened production to it. Besides, I'd imagine if it was included it'd need to fit in with the production of the rest of the album. I'm hoping for something really cohesive with this one.

I have always wanted Meat to cover " Vaults of Heaven". I also think a cover of a Zevon song would be great. In Zevon's album " life will kill ya" he has a song called " don't let us get sick".

"...[B]Don't let us get sick
don't let us get old
don't let us get stupid , all right?
just make us be brave
and make us play nice
and let us be together tonight...."[/B

It is a little closing song like " cry to heaven".


I think right now , Sailor to a Siren from the Blind album is GOLD just sitting in that album. It is one of my very favorites and it is sad to see it just sit in that album so long ago.
There are other songs I want to hear done, Souvenirs for one. Safe sex and several others are female songs. I do think songs have a gender. I recall the song " Original sin" was sung by a female. It was a great song but it begged for a male voice. Meat's cover of it was perfect.

Personally, if you're talking Zevon, I prefer 'My Shit's F*cked up'.
But I really don't think Meat Loaf should record it :P

Correction, Sailor to Siren is on Bad Attitude album.
Warren zevon and Leonard Cohen are two of the other artists I will still spend money on.

Songs of zevon that I would like to hear Meat cover,
Mutineer, Genius, Searching for a heart, The envoy, Splendid Isolation.
As far as Cohen, any number of his songs are worthy.


I like Zevon's " My S*it F**ked Up" and "I'll sleep when I'm dead " too. doubt Meat sould want to cover them, but he did cover " lawyers , guns and money" and it was great.

Couldn't agree more. But with SIXX AM doing so well I am actually surprised that James Michael is doing anything for anyone else right now. Paul Jacobs was the musical director for one of Jim's plays back in the day so I'm not surprised that he can write in the same vein as Jim does. MODERN GIRL is a great song.

SO EXCITED!!

This musical seems to be stuck is a state of Development Hell! It was supposed to be written by Monty Python's Terry Jones (of all people, not a bad thing just unexpected), they had a whole team behind it, it was meant to open in London 2005 but all we know is 'Jim is working on it' and apparantly they're looking at a Broadway launch. Jim hasn't blogged since 2008, I know he's been unwell though.

I guess because it is supposed to be a huge show with motorcyclists etc an issue is finance, but reading about the premise and how it's been redone as a stageplay and screenplay several times over the years - it would be nice to hear the songs in a context that was truly intended by Steinman; this won't be YET ANOTHER 'jukebox musical'. . Unless Meat does a run as Hook or something no it won't be a Meat Loaf show, but it's still Bat Out of Hell by the original creator.

However there is a chance the show could potentially carry the legacy and bring it to a new audience - soundtrack albums, concept albums maybe a movie.

But back onto topic the album sounds mega exciting - even if it's 6 Jim songs we know done by Meat Loaf for the first time that would be amazing - especially after BAT 3.

Good post Danny. Normally I always just like a post and think that is sufficient but just wanted to point out it sums up the stuff about Jim's musical quite well.

I agree 6 Jim songs or even if it is less sounds very exciting indeed.

How about Desperadoes Under The Eaves or Nobody's In Love This Year for a closer?