This too many songs limit is an American thing right? Just make it a 2 cd so

I'd much prefer it as a proper single but if it wont be or cant be I'd prefer to hear it as a b-side than not at all. That's all!

I could be wrong ... but yes, I think Meat posted that they can only have 12 songs on a physical CD in the USA. I don't think there would be the same limit if they released the CD digitally for download on Itunes or Amazon :-)

What kind of stupid rule is that? Who comes up with that :shit: ? Does someone really get paid to sit in an office to come up with a rule like that. The world really has gone to Hell in a hand basket.

It is a very strange rule if true? Haha, makes no sense at all.

You seem to be missing the point. The song is contracted to the Bat musical. Meat can't release it in any way. If he could, then I'm sure he wouldn't be using it as a B-side.

... so we could have a CD of Steinman songs and a CD of the rest ...

I always thought of it something like this = brave other songs, crazy = steinman songs.

There is no such rule- I have plenty of CD's with over 12 tracks. I think what Meat was referring to is that Wal-Mart won't carry CD's with more than 12 tracks, for some reason- cost? So, if artists want Wal-Mart to carry their album, they either need to limit it to 12 tracks, or come out with a separate edition.

I do know that the royalty payment to songwriters is more once you put over 12 tracks on an album- no idea why.

Lol I don't think I've ever known of someone bitching about a future album having to many songs.... On another note, does anyone have any idea who is producing? If it isn't Jim then I hope it's rob cavallo.

I would imagine Paul Crook would be part of the production team at least? Thought Rob Cavallo's production was excellent on HCTB.

Thanks for the clarification .. and yes I have a feeling it has to do with cost.

That is bizarre.

Or maybe Paul Crook will be producing it himself ? I absolutely agree about Rob Cavallo's production on HCTB but
I also think that Paul did a great job with HIAHB :D

I think he did too .. and from what he said last year at Vegas, he seems to be working with Meat on this one. And I'd think they'd want Chris Lord Alge again too ;) I doubt Jim will be producing the whole album, although doubtless he'd have an input into his songs. But recording has changed so much now .. it's not as it was in the old studio days

I did a little more research to try to find the royalty rate reference and couldn't, but I know I read it someplace. What I did find is that record companies will often put a cap on royalties paid per record, based on the rate paid for 10 or 12 songs, for example (or whatever is agreed upon). In other words, if the going rate is 9.1 cents per song, (as it is currently, though it's more for longer songs), that puts a maximum of $1.09 paid on a 12-song album. If you put 14 songs on said album, each song only receives 7.8 cents, instead of 9.1. I believe this is what Meat means when he says the extra comes out of his pocket (which it does).

Now, this would be mitigated if Meat wrote or held the publishing on his own songs, since he would in effect be paying himself. Interestingly, though, a lower rate is paid to singer/songwriters, presumably because they make up the difference elsewhere.

I suspect the Wal-Mart limit is related to the royalty cap as well- I read that sometimes retailers pay the royalties as well.

As to digital downloads, it appears royalty rates are the same as for physical CD's.


I can think of a specific example (not here)of people bitching that an existing album has too many songs. :roll: :lol:

Certainly alot of back and forth over how many songs and who is writing. God help us if Meat ever gives us any more info on the album.
I`m just happy that
1 we have a new album coming out
2 its going to have at least 12 songs
3 Steinman is finally onboard and is providing six songs.

Having Steinman on board is not a guarantee of success but it certainly improves the odds. Meat is already hyping this in interviews and it really is a great story behind a new album. The most successful partnership in rock and roll together again.
Who can argue with that

Agreed. I'm feeling a lot of passive anti-Steinman-ism going on here, but I've got to be honest, when I think of Meat Loaf, every single song that pops into my head is - more or less - a Steinman song. And that's not to discredit Meat Loaf - I mean, how could it - it's just to say that Meat is a great performer/singer, and Jim is a great writer. Together, it's the perfect package, and that's the style of music I want to hear. It's what made they both successful, and what remade them both in the early nineties. So while I'm always interested to hear the other songs, I'm more interested in the Meat & Jim material. I mean, come on, Meat's most public identifiable songs are - arguably - Bat Out of Hell and Anything For Love - who wrote those, after all?

Or perhaps some active pro-Meat-ism? ;)

When I think of Meat every single song that pops into my head isn't a Steinman song .. probably because Meat has in the last 15 years recorded so many songs Steinman didn't write, and to some of us these are just as special, memorable, make just as much of a connection.

Of course it's great that Meat and Jim are working together again .. that collaboration is what made us, around the world, aware of a great composer and a great singer and performer .. each outstanding in their own right, enhanced by working together, and introduced us to something that grabbed the hearts of all of us, and that may never be matched or surpassed by any other collaboration again. But perhaps some of us feel that posts implying that it would be better to have 10 (or even 6 or 8 ) songs all composed by Steinman, rather than 14 which include others, or that other songwriters might be almost quaking in their boots to have a song following a Steinman one etc seems a little passively anti-anything-but-Meat-delivering-Steinman-ism ;)

When I think of Meat's recordings now, ones that immediately spring to my mind are Did I Say That?, Forever Young, Peace on Earth, Did You Ever Love Somebody?, Testify!, Alive, All of Me, Our Love and Our Souls and many others. I go to shows and still love to hear his Steinman penned classics .. they're great, great songs, and they come with wonderful memories. But on the occasions when I've been lucky enough to hear any of the others I've listed live, those too have created wonderful memories.

I've read so many posts about What Part of My Body Hurts the Most. I've heard a clip of Rob Evans singing it, read the lyrics. If I too may be honest .. I would take Did I Say That?, or a song of the same calibre, over it any time. That's a personal perspective .. and is not "anti-Steinman" .. it's simply I consider that song to be superb, an outstanding composition, and Meat's delivery of it perfection .. to me.

I'm just happy that
1. Meat is bringing out a new album
2. That he is clearly excited to be working on songs written by Jim again, and that according to Paul they will "blow your mind"
3. That it will have 14 songs
4. It will have new songs from Steinman and songs from other writers who also have a track record of composing songs for Meat which I love

It's worth pointing out that the Rob Evan version isn't finished. Apparently there's an as yet unheard second verse. Also Rob Evan certainly isn't Meat Loaf. In fact Rob Evan is far, far, far from being even in the same room as Meat Loaf.

No offence to Rob Evan but to me he sounded like an ok-ish musical singer. There are a 1000 of those on the London West End. Many of who sound more interesting to me. It's why I often can't get too excited about performances on X Factor or the Voice. If they don't sing it with the right passion / connection to the audience it doesn't even matter if their voice is amazing to me.

Exactly. I think bland is probably the right word.

Indeed .. However, as others have judged the song on what is available as one they want Meat to record , it seems fair that I can say on the same evidence that I'm not that in that camp. And I was judging not just on the performance, but the music and the lyrics, neither of which engaged me greatly. My perspective.

I am not saying, and I don't think I have ever seen anyone here say, that Steinman hasn't got a track record of composing brilliant songs. No-one is denying his genius. However, imo others have written superb songs which Meat has recorded, have written superb songs which he hasn't. I may be alone in this view, but I don't think so. When Meat records an album it does not have to contain songs only composed by Steinman for me to look forward to it, nor for me to love it. I do not think I am alone in that either. For those to whom only a Steinman song will do, I am delighted for them that there will be 6 such on the next album. However, some of us love all Meat's work, and will look forward with as much excitement to hear ALL the songs as they will to their six :) Just as Meat will pour his soul into every track with equal commitment and passion. There will also be those who have not followed Meat from the start, who are younger, to whom perhaps his more recent work strikes a much closer chord.

That isn't anti-Steinman, none of it .. it's simply pro-Meat

I just listened to the song "what part of my body hurts the most", heard it for the first time. BIG LIKE!! Imagine if Meat sings it, adding some better and larger backing vocals and tune it up a slightly more bombastic, it would be brilliant!!!

As far as I'm concerned, if this will be the quality of the whole Brave and Crazy album, Let's put 20 songs on it! :D:D

Which other songs will have a chance to get on Brave and Crazy?

Hmm, if it is pro-Meat-ism, then it's coming across as being to the detriment of Jim Steinman's contribution. I'm no Steinman super-fan, but I'd argue that if you walked into a bar and asked someone to name five Meat Loaf songs, four of them would've been written by Jim. It definitely wouldn't include Peace on Earth, Did You Ever Love Somebody, and All of Me (as good as those songs are).