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And, either you don't like Romney, or you meant this in the best way possible.............. Quote:
So, again, is your main problem that Meat (along with other celebs) endorce a candidate, or is the problem with who Meat is endorcing? |
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Until Meat or any band member decides to enlighten us with the facts, let's not try proving any points using gueswork :wink: |
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I have also said I would feel the same regardless of who he was telling people to vote for. Apparently you chose to ignore that quote. What a surprise. :roll: I do not like the idea of Meat Loaf using his fame to tell people who to vote for. It divides fans and it is something he has never done before. I don't like the fact that he offered an unqualified endorsement, his first in 40 years, only to turn around the next day and say he disagrees with Romney on a number of key issues. I also never ask why Meat feels he is in a position to use his celebrity for an endorsement. Meat is in that position, clearly. I simply said I don't think he should and that it will (and has) divide his fans. I have also said I find it disrespectful to tell people to argue with their family and friends rather than respecting their own opinions. Once again, you ignore this, determined as you are to ignore everything I've said and push the agenda you've invented for me. You seem to have some sort of desperation to tell me what I think rather than listening to what I have said. I've explained my points clearly and concisely - everyone but you seems to have understood them. I can't be bothered wasting further effort explaining. |
I'd like to thank lorenzoduke for his posts. (Since I refrain from clicking "like" or "dislike" buttons, I have to do it this way.)
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Some might say that to imply anyone was put in a sticky situation, as far as they were concerned, is speculation ;) |
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To the people who keep harping on about the band members, no one held a gun to anyone's head and said "do this or die." They are all f**king adults, and they made the decision on their own to attend. Do they support Romney, who the hell knows, we won't know unless they come here and tell us one way or the other.
A job is a job, but I would imagine that anyone who didn't want to be involved did not have to be if they didn't want to. |
A question that's not related to political controversy: How come videos of Meat Loaf singing America The Beautiful at the rally are removed from YouTube due to copyright claims by Red Pony Tours? What exactly does Meat Loaf hold the copyright to in this case?
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I've read what you said, and posted the relevant parts to what I was asking. You're obvious dislike for Romney is why I asked for clarification on weather it was the crandidate or or the endorcement itself that you didn't like. Quote:
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But I asked you weather it was the cadidate or the endorcement you didn't like, and you said you had not made either point. Quote:
So again, it's the endorcement itself you have the problem with, not the fact it was Romney endorced. This is all I asked you. Quote:
I don't think it's unusual for someone talking to a political crowd to urge them to fight their corner. I also think it's normal that the crowd needs no telling. It's normal that the celebrity speaker will have pretty much 0 effect on the commitment to those he speaks too. Quote:
I've asked you what your biggest issue was, and asked you to clarify, even when you've said the point you've made over and over is a point you've never made. How can I invent an agenda for you when I have no idea what point you are trying to make? Quote:
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I'll settle for agreeing to disagree :lol: |
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My point is we don't know if there was any sticky situation. |
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It's strange that having given such an endorcement Meat wouldn't want anybody to see it :wtf: You could argue that he's got some sort of claim over it was his live peformance, but I personally think it's more to do with the poor quality of the performance. |
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As Julie said, if you can't stand the heat say out of the kitchen. He has given me one more reason to question his character and integrity with this endorsement and how he has handled the aftermath. |
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I must have missed the "respectful" expression of opinion on Facebook. Most of what I saw was riddled with bad language and insults. Quickest solution, get rid of it all.
I also find it odd for someone who for years has been so far up Meat's ass that she can taste his his food to suddenly turn on him over politics If you make your musical listening decisions based on an artists political leanings then you are an idiot. I don't support Romney, but I'm not going to turn on meat because of it. I'm not going to go out and burn Springsteen albums just because he supports Obama. People need to get a ~~~~ing grip Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner |
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As a voting American, this sums many of my thoughts on our candidates and this election
From Richard Marx on Twitter @richardmarx: For me, this election is like deciding whether I'd prefer a Nike or an Adidas to kick me square in the nuts. Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner |
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Any celeb sticking their head above the parapet can expect to be shot at, but this wasn't a smattering of rifle fire, some of it was fraking 24 pounder artillery :shock: My post, although supportive of Meat, was not pro Romney, and it's still there. I'll post it here for the sake of example............ Quote:
So not every post has been deleted that doesn't show support for Romney, but no doubt some have. The most vile comments have no doubt been deleted, but that's only right. If respectful comments have been taken down, i'd have to see the content myself to judge weather it was right (in my oppinion) to take them down or not. End of the day, if you're going to speak up you must accept others will reply in disagreement. I personally think that to make a political endorcement was a mistake, and no good come of it for Meat or his fans. But i'm not going to hold it agaist him. The endorcement, or who it's in favour of. I have a minimal opinion on Meat's ability to influence people in these matters and treat it with equally little importance. |
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Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner |
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I have had ALL of my posts deleted from his page. I started off being respectful and simply expressing my concern & disappointment. When I wasn't shown the couresy of having MY OPINION respected, I could longer show him respect since he had proven that it wasn't deserved. I still love his music. It is hard to listen to the music of a man you once respected without having very mixed feelings. I am not at the point where i am ready to get rid of my collection. Depending on how this plays out going forward, it may come to that. I wasn't only a fan of his music I was a fan of him as a person. it is all tied together. I am one of the die hard fans I am very disappointed in the man |
Very honest post by BostonAngel. It's quite sad it comes to this. I feel Meat has in the past done other things to alienate fans too. It's a shame. It's not even Meat's political choice I have a problem with it is how he has conducted himself (I very much agree with BostonAngel) is a bigger issue to me; bad singing and trying to get all evidence of his support now deleted.
I completely disagree with MarkS saying you are an idiot when you base your music listening on a person's political views. In my opinion one is an idiot for suggesting it never matters. 14 pages in, if it doesn't matter then why are people talking about it? |
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We don't know if they were asked or told to appear. This is a scenario to consider in the real world: If your boss told you to do something that was fundamentally against your beliefs & principles would you do it? Would you say YES and go against your beliefs? Would you stand up for your beliefs and say NO? How secure to you think your job would be if you went against what your boss said to do? In most situations that would put your job in jeopardy. Either way you are faced with an uncomfortable & and precarious dilema. As I said, we don't know if the band was asked to appear & given or choice or if they were simply told that they were appearing. It is speculation. |
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Caryl |
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Like I said earlier, people need to get a grip and chill, and if Meat has alienated anyone as a fan, then don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out. Meat has made his political decision and a bunch of bitching and moaning from a few fans won't change his mind. Nor should his endorsement change your mind if its already made up Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner |
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I do understand your feelings, though. |
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All this bending over and grabbing big notes right from the off - he didn't used to try that. He had control, subtlety and the ability to sing like an angel. I'm sad. Sad for me as a fan. Sad for Meat and his legacy. Don't care about the politics. There are people here who will get cross for what I've said and there are people here who write a better argument than me but I'm bored of seeing those same names cropping up always defending his vocals. Its not all about the performance, its about that voice that grabbed us all by the heart and took us to another planet. Luke |
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I don't think I've seen anyone saying the vocals at the rally were good. I am one of the "same names cropping up always defending his vocals", and I have not said they were good. I have said that unfortunately he did this on the day he needs to rest his voice now. He is 65 and needs that rest. The two songs they did were not very good vocally, but not bad in my view. After those though, and then rallying the crowd, you could tell his voice was worn to hoarseness. This I say because I believe it to be true. It doesn't make the vocals great .. I say it because it explains why I believe this performance was not indicative of what Meat achieves on stage consistently still. Caryl |
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With this election, bottom line, we are screwed either way. And if you don't believe me, just wait till Obamacare fully kicks in an see how that works out for you. Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner |
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Did anyone else think it was strange he performed "Break It" at the rally? It's probably the worst Steinman song I think he has performed. :-(
I think it would have been a bit more fun had he done the usual stuff maybe Bat and both Frying Pan. Maybe not so much of a political statement but certainly more entertaining and probably a bit easier for him vocally to get right and ultimately would have made more of an impression. |
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Yes, I like the man, I respect him, but contrary to what some here believe, I have never put him on a pedestal, nor expected him to always do as I would want. He's human and I give him permission to be that, to make choices I might not make, to have interests and passions I don't have, and to sometimes make mistakes or even disappoint me. That's what people do. People to me are like a jigsaw, and I don't try and change a piece of that any more than I would try and change a piece of The Haywain .. I simply enjoy the whole picture for the pleasure it gives me. And even if they disappoint me sometimes, it doesn't change who they are as a whole. I have followed Meat and seen how he behaves for long enough to know that those qualities I admire and like he has in good measure still. So I still like him as a person, and will still enjoy any interaction I have with him. And nothing changes the music or the performance for me, nor the passion in his delivery, his energy on stage, his determination to give me the best show he can. Caryl |
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It gives me no pleasure to say the vocals at the rally were not good. I simply understand why, and know they are not indicative of his performances on stage on tour. Caryl |
:twisted: [mod hat]
In all fairness, I think there's quite enough being debated on this thread without adding the general state of Meat's singing voice these days to the mix. OK, the performance in question is somewhat relevant to the thread, but can we please confine discussion of his voice to the performance at the rally. I do not agree with everything said on the thread, but i've found it an interesting exchange of ideas and points of view. I wouldn't like to see the thread locked because it turns into an off topic battle about Meat's singing abilities. [/mod hat] |
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So which of us in more invested in Meat as a person? So people who love Meat as a man now say just care about him muic, and the people who just care for him as an artist now voice concern about his personal political views. It's a two way street. It's a mad mad world :wtf: |
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The performance in question is on topic. Comments on the state of Meat's voice these days in general aren't. As long as convo sticks to the rally (including that one performance) there shouldn't be a need to lock or split. |
:twisted: For the record, and posts arguing the general state of Meat's voice will be deleted without prior notice.
I'd like to keep this open. Right, time for food :mrgreen: |
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I will tell you I am a good singer, i have a good range, and I can sing pretty much any artists songs, and i can tell you that whereas i can sing entire albums from other artists and bands, it's a struggle to get through Meat Loaf albums! He has undoubtedly the hardest songs to sing, and he's been doing it for 40+ years ffs! Of course his voice will never be the same as it was, he's had 3+ surgeries on it for a start, done so many back to back shows when he was advised that with these types of songs that are so hard he would damage his voice doing back to back shows, but he needed to capitalise on his success at the time and that's what the record companies scheduled him to do. But when he's rested, and when he's well prepared and warmed up, he can still blow other singers out of the water. He can still hit notes others can't. Just look at Bat on the DVD. The hardest notes for him to still hit from any of his songs are the high C's at the end and he still can. Even Russell Watson can't hit them as i remember from when he sung with Meat that time. Meat is 65, yet still charges around the stage like he's 35, doing incredibly hard song after incredibly hard song. After a show he has literally nothing left, and yet you really think he should be able to do a show the next day as well just as well as the night before? |
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Trying to stay ON topic, Meat's performance at the rally was far from his best, and while you may have gone to many more shows than I recently, it doesn't mean my opinion is necessarily wrong ! |
:twisted: And i'm locking this till i've had my did dins.
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:twisted: OK, the burning issue first.
I had southern fried chicken, it was very nice, thank you :mrgreen: (I can't help thinking this post would have got more likes if I had put some bacon into the mix :bleh: ) Right. It might be "ignorant" not to consider the performance in wider context, but we know what will happen. It'll turn into a debate on weather Meat can still sing or not. Rows will start over it, posts will be reported, edit will follow edit, and the post will lose it's meaning and end up locked. Like it or not, we know that's what's going to end up happening. That's why i've said to discuss the performance at hand (as well as the issue of Meat's endocement of Romney. This thread has got debate enough for us all without adding "has Meat still got it" into the mix. I'm going to try and clean the thread up a little to bring things back to the discussion at hand. No, it's not perfect, and I don't want to surpress people's oppinions, but it's the best option I can see to keep this thread on track and open. This is a big issue that obviously means a lot to the folks posting here, and i'd like everyone to be able to have their say. |
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We KNOW he can do better. His pipes may not be what they used to be, but with proper warm ups (and properly mixed with effects and possibly slight auto-tune) he can do a good performance. It's just the fact that he could have NOT done it or at the very least keep it to low notes. He tried to belt it out and it sort of made him look foolish. It's like the equivalent of me doing an impromptu performance with an untuned guitar, That's why I made the comment about losing his wits, because as a professional performer he should know better. I think that it's counter productive to just brush it off. I may critique the big guy, but I love him nonetheless. |
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I've always tried to separate the man(or woman)from the music or any other sort of art that they do. Especially these days when you know EVERYTHING that a celebrity does because of the internet... |
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Didn't we already go over this earlier in the thread? |
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Brain....HURTS....OWW....UGH!
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I'll keep my own comments to the Romney performance in this thread, and make sure I don't prick my foot on the eggshells while I'm at it. |
I think this thread is done.
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