Okay, back on topic.

Poland???? Russia???

You're skewing the point here Evil. Saying "those who like their Meat "Steinman free" is putting your concept into the mouths of those who loved those albums. I like Chinese food, not because it is "Indian free", but because I like Chinese food. I can enjoy both; it does not mean I would never want to eat a curry again. Enjoying both is not to eschew either.

Again, to say one is looking forward to hearing songs from other writers AS WELL AS STEINMAN is not rejecting the Lord and all his works :roll: Some of us can look forward to both. I do.

Are possibilities, no more .. and the comment was removed from Meat's FB page.

That's the best thing you've written in this thread. I'd actually be quite happy for the existing version to get a proper CD or high quality MP3 release.

I never specified to whom my comment related.

Back to the point of Russia and Poland, it's entirely possible that they could go the same way as South Africa and India. :shrug:

Nope, you're wrong again. I haven't speculated anything. You put it out there that the Steinman material on this forthcoming album will sound 'like it's 15 years old'. It's up to you to prove it, not me, and you can't prove it because you haven't heard it, ergo: speculation.

And 'Out of the Frying Pan' was never generally used in conversation on a daily basis as far as I know. And so what if it was sixty plus years ago? Doesn't make the song any less great. :roll:

Somehow, I doubt that the new songs will include irrelevant metaphors and obscure turns of phrase that will be lost on a 21st century audience.

No one who 'speaks normally'? Leaving aside the obvious, that's an incredibly ignorant comment. What constitutes 'speaking normally' in your view?

And Caryl: I wasn't originally aiming the anti-Steinman comment towards you, though you have since contributed to it. We could debate this forever and day, so I'm happy to say that - I see it, other people have picked up on it: it's not just me - and leave it at that. Either way, it's not worth arguing :-)

Oh it was .. I guess you're too young to remember it ;):-)

This is probably true! :-) Though I'd imagine it's subject to class, region, country, etc.

The entire thread with the expception of what Meat has stated as fact is speculation about the new album and 2015 plans, so nice attempt at a heat reversal, but #Fair

As to irrelevant metaphors, this is Steinman we are talking about, the King of irrelevant metaphors, not saying it hurts all the music, but the man uses metaphors more than most.

Again, an attempt at a heat reversal, :roll: speaking normally just means using a cadence and language from the century, and not running around talking like we are at a renaissance fair. Granted there are many languages out there, hell many languages on this forum, but we share a lot of common phrases.

I think you're right- I'm not so young, ;) and I don't remember using it very much, if at all.

I agree with you- I think production can "date" a song more than the lyrics can. And, I don't care when a song was written, as long as I think it's good.

If all those cliches were such a problem, why does Bat I still sell as well as it does? It can't only be people replacing their old copies.

Mark, I had to report that last one. I'd advise against personal insults and attacks.

As for a 'heat reversal'. It isn't. I'm not feeling any kind of heat, other the one coming from my desk-side radiator (it's cold up here). You're the one making claims here, man, not me. I'm just disagreeing with you.

For the record, your own experience of language and phrase shouldn't really be enforced on anyone else, let alone award winning song writers. Me either, for that matter :roll:

I changed that for you. But given past history that is fine line to tread. Anyway, we are all just speculating, and if we all agreed it would be a boring little world.

I look forward to whatever Meat brings out with the next album, and if I don't like it, I will just simply listen to something I do like. One thing that I do like about Steinman being involved is that I do think that it will provide at least some closure, or perhaps rather a full-circle in terms of a very storied career.

What I posted earlier in this thread could have been interpreted as being anti-Stienman by some but quite frankly I don't care. I have seen on several occasions where criticisms of an album, a performance or a concert have come up that people have the right to their opinions. I accept that and am merely exercising my own right to voice my own. If the moderators of this forum have a problem with my doing so then they will respond and deal with it in whatever way they see fit.

I have enjoyed some of the songs that Stienman has written but there has also been many others that have been written by other songwriters and given the fact that I accept that there are a lot of people who are looking forward to hearing the Stienman songs, I don't think I should have to lie about hoping that more songs by other writers are sacrificed to make room for more Stienman songs or that I think his work will overshadow that of the others because that is not the purpose of a discussion board.

If Meat is excited about working with Stienman again then that's great for him and there are many fans here who are excited about it but I don't think that should mean that everyone has to be.

I am excited at the thought of a new album being released but it has a lot more to do with the fact that I like MEAT than because particular people are writing it. I know that without the writers there would be no album but they don't really make much difference to me.

There are many ways of not agreeing, the vast majority lead to a good discussion which is what was happening in this thread.

Lets all not resort to other ways of not agreeing please.

I think that's perfectly reasoned and reasonable Jenna .. personal taste is not, or should not be, prohibited or seen as anything but "Pro-" something

I have posted nothing "anti-Steinman". I simply said I did not, and do not believe at the point you raised it there was any such tone pervading the thread, so statements that I have somehow contributed to any such thing are worth denying when they are aimed at me.

If there are other people who consider that anything I have said is "anti-Steinman" let them state that and identify what on earth I have said that is so. To enjoy the work of others is not to disrespect the work of anyone else.

I'm sure he at least deserves the courtesy of having his name spelt correctly. :bleh:

Meat and Jim working together again is simply put =fantastic!!! End of debate IMO, I'm looking forward to the other songs so much aswell, I can't wait. Maybe it's been so long since jim wrote for Meat that everybody is just a little bit excited?

Have to agree with that one.

all good news,but more UK shows ??? i thought we hadthe farewell shows :|

Who are you? The spelling police?

I'm SORRY I spelt his name wrong. It was a GENUINE MISTAKE.

Jenna, I was quite surprised by this post. To say that you 'don't care', and then to go on for three paragraphs about why you don't care - necessary? Yeah, you're entitled to your opinion, but I can't help wonder what this thread would look like if the comments had been directed towards Meat Loaf, his choice in lyrics, etc. from the other side of the field.

Discussion, which is what this is/has attempted to be, IS the point of a discussion board. That's exactly what it is. And as for not 'having to lie' regarding your own opinion on things here - try posting something that doesn't agree/worship something Meat Loaf does sometime, and see what kind of a response you get. There are lots of things I'd like to discuss here, or things that I didn't necessarily agree with, but if I go there I know I'll be bombarded with people telling me that I'm wrong. So I don't do it.

The bottom line is: you can't group Steinman in with all the other writers. He isn't just another writer that happens to write songs for Meat Loaf. You're Meat Loaf fans - surely I don't need to explain this? :shock:

P.S. Mods - I think all the Steinman talk warrants its own thread. What do you guys think?

The person who is posting that they disagree with something Meat Loaf has done usually says something along the lines of "this is a discussion board" and "I'm entitled to my opinion" to which the supporters of Meat Loaf will usually try to argue with much as I feel that Jim STEINMAN's fans are doing here.

I am well aware of what STEINMAN has contributed to Meat Loaf's career and I respect that but I do not think he should be used to demean other writers. I'm sorry if you find this hard to believe but to me, he is just another songwriter.

I had no idea that to be a Meat Loaf fan that I'd automatically have to be a STEINMAN one too???

...which is then completely trampled over in favour of the 'positive' opinion (that not everyone shares).

I'm not really a Jim Steinman 'fan'. I know relatively little about him. I just know that I like some of his music in relation to Meat Loaf. If Jim released something sub standard (I'm sure he probably has), I'd acknowledge it as that. And no one is saying that you can't have an alternative point of view - but when you come in with 'I don't care' and expect that not to warrant a reply... The difference between this discussion and the Meat Loaf discussions is that here you* have to be on the 'right' side, and there you have to be on the 'right' side. There is no difference. It's not really discussion if the (for want of a better term) 'pro Meat/my opinion is always correct' team are stifling the contributions of everyone else.

That makes two of us! :-) I haven't 'demeaned' any of the other writers, though I'd argue that by referring to Jim Steinman as 'just another writer' and by CAPITALISING his name every time that's exactly what you're doing here. And I think he's done a little more than just 'contributed to Meat Loaf's career'. It's arguable that without Jim Steinman we wouldn't be sitting here now and this site wouldn't exist as it does.

No one has said that, but there's a lot of inseparable history that you can't really ignore. If you like BOOH, AFL, FRYING PAN, OBJECTS, etc, then you like Steinman, more or less.

*although I used the word 'you', it's not directed personally towards you Jenna. And none of this is personal or directed towards any one person. It's just a way of illustrating a point so that discussion can go on.

here we go again