until the next album :)

I'm sure that wasn't meant to rekindle a discussion we've moved on from, but I hope Meat sticks with what he has in mind (and I strongly suspect the "9" was a mis-type), as I'm looking forward to the other songs as well.

So do I .. but albums often take a title from one of the tracks I guess. I really liked Brave & Crazy, but the current title is a nice tribute to the composer imo.

The vibe I'm getting I think Meat would be thrilled if there was enough Steinman material for a whole album. And that's not to say that I'm not looking forward to any other songs he might record, but if his last album was to be an album by the two people that started this whole thing off, well, that could be a very cool thing :cool:

how many more twists and turns will there be?

Who knows ... but it's fun to think about :D

Braver than we are is a good title, it makes sense. As I'm sure the marketing team will push the steinman involvement to the max😃

Bat Out Of Hell IV: Braver Than We Are

It was, and a far more interesting discussion regardless of whether we've moved on from it or not. ;)

Not sure how or why you know what Meat has in mind, but from what I've seen (and I agree with Doode here) Meat appears really pleased with Steinman's greater involvement. :roll:

We may yet get another Steinman written and produced Meat album. How anyone can think that this is less than good, or not preferable to an album with a number of writers of lesser talent, escapes me. :twisted:

Because he SAID what he has in mind :roll: He has said which other writers have written songs, said there will be 14 tracks, and said he has 6 written by Steinman


Has anyone suggested he's not? I too can judge appearances. It would would of courses be pretty dumb to not say he was pleased, and Meat isn't dumb .. but I am sure he is genuinely very pleased.

Clearly it does escape you .. but I venture to think it is more a case that you do not want to entertain any view but yours and that of those who would vastly prefer an album entirely written by Steinman. Yet all the discussion about the Steinman penned songs on here seems to be about ones Jim has already written. Meat has said that he was persuading Jim to write a new verse for one. That's great. I don't know if he has written any new songs, but I do know that some of those suggested on this thread don't appeal to me as much as some of those more recently written by other terrific composers Meat has used.

I think it is demeaning to the other writers Meat has said he is using to continually diminish their talent. These are writers who have been and are now writing successful and excellent songs. In my view James Michael's Did I Say That? is a superb song, one of the best Meat has ever recorded. I could not dismiss him as being of "lesser talent".

What I find distasteful is that there seems an active and continuing attempt here to push anyone who likes other writers Meat uses into some corner where they are portrayed as bizarre and beggaring belief, or in some way disrespectful to, or "anti" Steinman simply because they DO enjoy the songs written by others, or odd because they trust Meat to be able to identify great songs penned by others and which make an equally powerful connection with them.

Some might very well think that to shut one's mind like a steel trap to any songs by any other composers escapes them .. I couldn't possibly comment.

[QUOTE=CarylB;601235]I'm sure that wasn't meant to rekindle a discussion we've moved on from, but I hope Meat sticks with what he has in mind (and I strongly suspect the "9" was a mis-type), as I'm looking forward to the other songs as well.



Judging by the fact that Steinman's involvement is growing and more of his songs are being added, it seems that Meat is looking forward to more of Jim's contributions, without demeaning anyone elses. If it was a mis-type wouldn't it have been corrected by now?
Also I doubt we'll see much more info on the album as what little we have had seems to have stirred people up quite a bit.
Caryl why do you seem to be so intent on wanting Meat to go with other writers? No hard feelings meant here but I am just curious.
My opinion is that Meat bring something to Steinman's songs that no one else can. FOR CRYING OUT LOUD is by far one of the most beautiful songs ever released.
I have no way of knowing what Steinman songs Meat will record on the new album. I have no way of knowing if they're any good or not. But I think it would be fair to say that the odds are that this will be an incredible record.

I think you will find it has been removed. Meat was at full throttle replying to a very rude and irritating individual .. I think it is more than possible that the "9" was a miss-key. Steinman's contribution has increased to 6 for sure. That it is still growing and likely to be more is an assumption. What I refer to as demeaning is the continual suggestion that other composers are lesser writers.

I think I have explained several times why I enjoy the other writers Meat uses. I have NEVER said anything against him working with Steinman .. simply that I like the songs from the others too, and that personally .. and musical taste is allowed to be personal .. I am just as excited to hear these other songs he has selected. I am not wanting Meat to "go with other writers" instead of Steinman .. just that I want to hear their songs as well. I do not understand why this seems to be seen as an either/or.

You perhaps had not read my reply to Paul Richardson when you were writing this. To explain in more detail why I like these other writers AS WELL seems likely to be construed by some as somehow "knocking" Steinman .. and I do not wish that. However, I will say that the metaphors in for eg All Of Me made an immediate and just as powerful connection with me as any I have heard. Others write songs for Meat which he delivers and which give me just as much pleasure as many Steinman songs. That is not suggesting Steinman is "a lesser writer", not taking anything from his undoubted brilliance or so many wonderful songs he has penned. I simply also love many songs written by others, so I am looking forward to them as well, and so I am not sitting here praying that Meat will jettison these.

I'd agree wholeheartedly that Meat brings something to Steinman's somngs that no-one else can. Have always said this. Yes, FCOL is one of the most beautiful love songs written by Steinman and sung by Meat. In my view Did I Say That? is also one of the best.

I'd agree. I just don't happen to think that it will somehow be a lesser album by including the songs that Meat has said other writers that I respect have given him and will be on the album as well.

I do not consider CHSIB, HCTB or HIAH lesser albums either. My taste, my view, my pleasure.

Kettle / pot ... pot / kettle. :roll:

I'm sorry, but I think this is somewhat hypocritical.

While you're entitled to your opinion, by any objective measure they demonstrably are 'lesser' writers, ie longevity, sales, charts, and - slightly bizarrely in connection with Steinman - output as well.

Then there is the subjective measure that Steinman has contributed to Meat's career to a vastly 'greater' extent than any other writer he has worked with - and I can scarcely believe I have to cite it here of all places - ie Bat, Bat 2, the defining moment of Meat's career and his comeback.

If this is not a reasonable definition of 'greater' versus 'lesser' I don't know what is.

Indeed, thank you.

If he is then that's great for him but given the situation that the message was posted in, I wouldn't be 100% sure that he intended to write 9 songs. If he did intend to write that there were 9 Steinman songs then fine, that's great for everyone who wants to hear that sort of thing. I don't believe that it should be compulsory to be excited that there are more Steinman songs on the album than was originally suggested and I'm no more excited for the album than what I was when it was first announced

I think that is a matter of personal opinion. I enjoy listening to the work of other writers and do not consider that they have less talent and I think that your suggestion that they do is rather demeaning. Although there are some Steinman songs that I enjoy listening to when they are delivered by Meat, my favourite albums are some of the later ones that do not have any involvement from Steinman and when I listened to HIAH, it was the first album that I'd ever listened to that I clicked with and loved on the very first time I played it.

You say that the sales and longevity are evidence that Steinman is 'better' than some of the other songwriters but HCTB and HIAH, both albums by writers that you are so rudely dismissive of, both achieved top five positions in the UK charts. They kept Meat in the public eye, showed people that he's still creative and keen to bring out new material and that he's still relevant.

Meats bringing out a new album ( that's the main thing). It will be a great album we all hope. I've enjoyed all Meats latest stuff, I even posted stuff saying so a long while back, he created a new fresh sound and tried new things etc etc,, some very talented young writers were involved. But it's the norm now and always has been the case that an artist will go full circle in there career. And if this Is to be Meats final album it's fitting that he ends it with Jim. What a way to go out. Steinman is a unique talent, I try not to compare people, but he is 100% unique. That's how I would best describe him. Nobody writes songs like him, and Meat seems over the moon about it. Lets all enjoy the fact that we are getting something new

Yeah, I heard that the directors responsible for Beverly Hills Cop 3, Terminator Salvation, and Alien Resurrection are working on all new films. I'm really excited. I mean, who wants the original guys back anyway.

That Cameron dude and that Scott guy for example. They were, like, wayyyy out of their depths.

I'm not saying their input wasn't important or that I didn't enjoy it, but I'm WAYYYYY more excited to see what McG comes up with!!!!!

:p

Okay, so that wasn't entirely sincere (jesus, I hope it wasn't), but you get the idea. I'm not trying to flame anyone or single out any person; it's just an illustration of how this same conversation seems to be going.

Time to move on already.

Yeah and remaking avatar too!!! It made no money at the box office first time out lol,, I'm actually starting to like the new album title,

Meat hasn't brought out a new album this century that I have not considered great :) I have no doubt I will feel the same about this one. You say " if this Is to be Meats final album it's fitting that he ends it with Jim". He is, and I have not suggested otherwise. But if it's to be his last (apart from the Christmas album) then I would like some superb songs from those talented younger writers who helped him deliver the fresh new sound as well. That is to me a fitting way to close, encompassing the best from a long career of great recordings.

I do not see where anyone has said they are "WAYYYYY more excited" to hear the songs by other writers. I am looking forward to all the tracks, including those from the likes of James Michael.

Those who would be way more excited to have a shorter album with nothing but Steinman compositions are welcome to their view. However, there is no reason at all why any Meat Loaf fan should feel differently, nor be unable to say this.

I thought that but Mr Richardson disagreed

I haven't gone back and checked, but I'm sure that's what started this whole discussion...

I don't think anyone has said that. There's been the odd piece of speculation that that's where it could be heading if the songs are available, but no one's said 'we don't care about the other writers' ... apart from those on the 'other side' who have voiced their opinion that they are more interested in hearing non Steinman material.

Also - 'a shorter album'? You lost me on that one.

I'm know this perpetuates the conversation, but your post was directed towards me so I replied :-) End of the day there's a new Meat Loaf album on the horizon with Jim Steinman attached. And, as it is at the moment, he's seemingly contributed over half of the songs on the album. I'm pretty excited about that; and from what I can gather Meat is too :cool:

Using this logic, the album should have songs from Diane Warren and Jacobs/Durkee as well.

I didn't ask how you will feel about the album Caryl? I just said the main thing is we are getting a new Meat Loaf album. I said it's fitting ending it with Jim involved. My post was not referring to anything you have said, this is fact!!! - most artists go full circle in there careers, I was just stating it's in my opinion great hes working with Jim again on it. If there are other talented writers involved - great!!!

Well my input does not add anything to the debate but this is how I personally feel about the Steinman news.

"Thank God, Steinman does half the songs. Even if they end up being his worst written songs it will still stay miles ahead from that trainwreck called Hang Cool Teddy Bear and it won't have that terrible hiphop-rap-crap disaster, just because it's trendy not to write music anymore. No more 'Little Johnies' and "Chuckies'on a Meat record! I say HALLELUJAH for the real music writer! Could it be more perfect? Yes, but only if Patti was there to sing Steinman. Oh well, No Johnies, no Chuckies and No Patti... Two Out of Three Ain't Bad"

(again, personal opinion)

You can continue arguing :-)

And I'd be vey happy were that the case

Don't see that I have said anything contrary to this .. in fact I have said several times it's great Meat has songs from Steinman on the album, and great that other talented writers are involved. That is what seems to cause the shock/horror/incredulity from some ;)

But not from me :-)