POSITIVITY: APPLY WITHIN.
 

Hey Guys,

Mind if I vent? I didn't think you'd mind ;-)

Okay, on the back of Meat's "Something I read..." post I decided to check out some other forums (I'm a total forum noob, never use them, only a member of this one). I wasn't thrilled with what I found. And I definitly didn't join any of them. And here's what I'm talking about:

I don't think the concept of "fan forum" is clear to some people. And I don't think half of the people that post realise how it must feel to receive such a mass of negativity, when you're an artiste striving to do something good and the second it hits the outside world (if not before) there's all kinds of criticism from people who don't get it, and who should know better. The anal nit-picking, the mundane over-analysing... it's gone way too far.

From the artiste's POV a new album/single/video is something that you're putting your entire soul into, man. Can you imagine what an enourmous drag factor that must be? To have your 'fans' question your every move, second guess your intentions, take your words out of context and read between the lines and add in a little artistic license of their own? Everything doesn't have to be cynical.

The amount of positivity and high spirits that an artiste needs to take with him to go out and promote something like this, and be confident, and electric, and everything that we expect to see of any artiste promoting a new album/tour/whatever is phenomenal. And here's the point:

We should be the one's fuelling that fire. The one's cheering him on. It should be a feverish, thrilling time, rife with anticipation and the unknown. It should be about positive speculation. It should be about hopes and dreams and fantasies of what might be. We're the one's at the finish line with the champagne and the six foot banner!

I want Meat to succeed, and I want the album to be an amazing success - I mean, of course I do, hands down, I love Meat's music - and I want Meat to be happy with it. And I want everyone to like it. Of course I do. Not everyone WILL, but I WANT them to. And if they don't, hey, no big deal. But as a fan of this man and his music, I WANT it to succeed beyond his wildest dreams. I want it to be brilliant. And so should you.

Isn't that how it should be..? ;-)

:lurk:

You're preaching to the choir here ;) Agree with everything you wrote ... It's been expressed before, but that doesn't make it any the less valid. There are some who won't agree with all of it .. and nor does that make it any the less valid to me .. It should be positive, encouraging and celebratory, and for most people here, most of the time it is.

It won't be everywhere, and for some it won't be consistently so here .. but welcome to the internet world of Meat Loaf ;) I'm not surprised when he reacts like a wounded bear at times; he's someone very special, very talented, unique in many ways, but he's also human, with all the sensitivities that's part of the package for most humans. But I'm heartened by the belief that he's encouraged and feels supported here most of the time. And that's the best we can hope for and work for in my experience.

Caryl

Regrettably, you will always get that section of people who feel the need to nit-pick, voice concern over certain songs, videos or whatever and generally cast a gloomy picture. The trouble is, this fan site makes no mention in the rules of having to be positive about EVERYTHING. If that was the case, the site would suffer as a result. Plus, I wonder whether Meat would want to be surrounded by "Yes-men" day in and day out? I know I wouldn't, otherwise how would you ever grow as a person? I think Meat has shown that he can accept criticism so long as it is constructive, the biggest problem is when people try and second guess him or suggest how he thinks and/or feels about things. That is not what the site is for. This site is for fans of Meat Loaf. You can be a fan and still offer constructive criticism on the new album and the new songs. But I think the mood on MLUKFC is overall, very positive with regards to the new album.

-deep breath- Ok...heres my 2 cents:

I believe that we as fans should embrace any work that Meat puts out. And not judge the work before it even comes out. Now, for those of you that have heard the CD and given us amazing reviews, I am happy for you and thank you for the reviews. However, those of you who HAVENT heard the CD and still comment anyways...on 30 second clips need to give the album a chance. If meat really is as pumped about this album as he seems to be, this will show in the CD as a whole, and we as fans should be just as pumped.We should not be degrading him by saying things like "thats what you always say" and the like....GRANTED, I do believe everyone is entitled to their opinion, but its like my grandpa always said: You can have an opinion, but you don't always have to voice it.

Indeed.

He certainly said fairly recently here that he accepts constructive criticism.

Dave

:twisted: I think it's all a matter of balance.
If a forum is full of people who just want to quote Meat saying thank you and CHSIB then it's going to all get very bland very quickly.
Something like a Stepford forum (although, with site staff like us, you'd think you were already there :mrgreen: ).

It would be boring for us and of no use to Meat whatsoever.

On the other hand I agree that if Meat can expect support and enthusiasm from anyone he should expect both those things from members of his fan forum.
As a fan, i'm prepared to buy Meat's album without hearing it because I trust I will like it.
I've liked the vast majority of his past work and the chances are that I will like this too.
He's got a good track record, and if a horse had that good a record i'd bet on it.

I can't say that this is best since Bat, that would be silly as i've not heard it, but I can't bash the album either for the same reason.
That would be equally silly.
But I believe him when he says that he believes it's his best since Bat.
It's implied that he says that about every album, but the only album I recall hearing him say that about was CHSIB, and that wasn't a bad album.

I am sometimes surprised by things I read on this forum.
Doing something like blatantly accusing Meat of lying and questioning his integrity is IMHO (and no offence to anyone here) not something I would think of a fan as doing (unless they went to the Mark Chapman school for fandom).

If you dislike someone that much, why be a member of their online community? :shrug:


Not that I think there is a solution to the problem.
In a perfect world all the yes men would go have their own forum, all the hatters would go form their own forum, and leave the normals here for a bit of interesting yet not offensive convo.

That would work if it wasn't for the fact that some people have their own opinion and the irrisistable urge to share it with every corner of the internet :facepalm:

Food blathering moved to a new thread.
Keep this one on topic, please.

Slice wrote:
No disagreement to that at all .. although being constructive is important, and perhaps waiting first to give it a good hearing too ;) And as you say when people try and second guess him indeed attack his motivation or character, that's going to provoke trouble and shouldn't be considered reasonable or something he needs to find here imo.


meat_loaf2008 wrote:
A good maxim, particularly when you care about and support someone. I doubt Meat, who has said he welcomes constructive criticism of his work, would ask for more.

@ TheDoode

Perfectly reasonable thread imo. Reading some of the off-topic comments here, I say again .. welcome to the internet world of Meat Loaf :(

But thanks for moving them Rainer :-)

And @ Mouse who wrote:
Agree with all you say. Balance, fairness and consideration is what it should be about imo.

Caryl

Hey folks,

Purely for the record, I'm definitly not talking about a 'yes-man' attitude here. If I go see a film that I don't like, I'll say so, and why it didn't work for me. What I won't do is go to the director's house, invite myself in, and whilst eating the food his wife so loving prepared, let loose with a load of insults, negative speculation, how 'I' (underscored) could have done it better (like sure.......), and then follow that up with "and your next film's going to be shit, too". :-p

Just clairifying the original point - sorry if it's kind of heavy, just being as direct and plain as poss! :-)

Doode.

Caryl - thanks and appreciate your words! ;-)

Oh, you mean like when said artist takes his own time to appear on a charity telethon, and people come on to not only express their disappointment with his song choice, but to also critique such (live TV) performance to the point of pointing out how he missed one note on his guitar during the song? :roll:


And no, I'm not exaggerating.

Yes that is how it should be, and I guess in a perfect world it would be. Meat gets enough criticism from the 'outside world', the media and such, and doesn't need it from his fans too. But he does accept constructive criticism and takes it on board. There is a big difference between constructive criticism and attacking him and his integrity and accusing him of lying. I'm relatively new to the on line fan world, having only had a computer for a couple of years, and at first it was a bit startling to read some of the negative, and sometimes hateful things that get written, and not belonging to any other fan site have nothing to compare it to. It goes without saying I want this album to be a huge success for Meat and I believe wholeheartedly it will be. I love Meat's music too and have done so for 30 odd years now.

Carole

I have heard 30 second clips of the cd. I know of one song, don't remember the name, I know it was bringing tears to my eyes. I didn't like what I heard but I'm going to wait to hear the whole song before I really decide what I think. People have to be negative, they don't know any other way to be. IMO they are jealous cause they can't achieve the success in their lives that Meat Loaf and others have achieved. I don't know how anyone can critize so horribly by listening to 30 second clips. I don't like all of Meat Loaf's songs but I would rather rip my tongue out before blasting the poop out of one dam song on a cd on a public forum. One song is poop so does that mean the whole cd is poop? No. It's just one song out of how many on a cd? I just skip that song. I would love to see these negative people TRY just try to do what Meat Loaf does. I'm only 45 and I know for a fact that I can't keep up with him. Maybe that's why they are so negative, cause they can't do what others do? Can't do it so bash the poop out of it.

Sadly I can believe that .. and yes, that'd do it and rate a powerful ten out of ten on the Mealy-Mouthed-Git scale imo! Sometimes what people can do beggars belief :(

And @ Doode .. you're welcome :) .. and I do believe that we are many who care and offer support and encouragement; those who simply delight in poking and prodding are few; and all can if they choose remember the effort, passion and conviction that Meat puts into everything he does, and perhaps pause a little and think before they offer criticism and advice, however well intentioned ;)

It takes no time at all to type a comment. It takes a huge amount of time, effort, creativity and energy to deliver an album or a show. The least a fan can do imo is spend some time thinking about how they word what they're going to post, and how it might be read and taken by the man who will come here and read what is posted, and to whom they are giving their thoughts and opinions. Seems to me he has earned the right to expect that at the very least :??:

Caryl

Are you talking about Springsteen AGAIN?? ;-) Just an observation! :-) But for what it's worth - I agree!!!

Don't you just miss the days when an album would come out, and you'd know very little about it until the first single hit, and the interviews started, and you saw the posters and the billboards, etc? It used to feel like an event. I was thirteen when Bat II came out - man that was an event!

That said, I love what Meat is doing with the listening parties on Hang Cool. Expecially ensuring that the album isn't just given to journalists and then instantly ends up on youtube and the torrent sites. Smart move! In the way this album has been promoted - special tracks released, chapters of the story, sneak previews - well, it has some of that event-like vibe I was talking about earlier.

I don't know about you guys, but I like that idea :-)

Did I mention him? :saint:

Sorry, can't help it! :oops: :lol:

But, in all fairness, you're the one who brought up other fanboards. (Or, maybe you meant just other Meat Loaf fanboards, and I misunderstood). I just thought I'd use an example to add to the discussion. And that was nothing compared to what went on last year even before his last album came out, as you pointed out.

One might ask, then, if it's indeed so negative there, why I continue to go there?

Because, there are also some very positive, knowledgeable, and/or funny people who post there. To me, it's worth wading through the crap to get to the good stuff. ;)

POSITVITY APPLY WITHIN
 

I personaly feel very positive about meat loaf new album and i know its going to be a very successfull album and my congratulations gose to every one who helped meat loaf and rob to make this new album happen thank you

You know, I don't really care what people have to say. You can't please everyone so why bother trying. Just do your best and go from there.
Meat has said he wants our opinion. The good the bad and the ugly. I think coming from an artist thats more than fair. I like what I've heard so far. I can't wait to hear the rest.
The only thing that is truly annoying is the 'yes-people' who fall all over their keyboard to gush over how great every little thing is.
I think it would be more beneficial to everyone to offer their opinion based on more than
Meat did it so it must be great and I have to tell everyone that"
I enjoy much more reading a valid critique of a song by Meat no matter whether its good or bad. Gives me a new angle to view, a new ear to listen.

I've got the champagne.....:hic:(hiccup)! No, all kidding aside. I feel like a sideline cheerleader at times for Meat. We are the rah-rah, go Meat go chant committee .....yet we are down 36-0 in the fourth quarter, 2 minutes to go, ball not in our hands and we are out of timeouts. We'll still cheer no matter what. So yeah, I'd like to apply for the POSITIVITY POLICE opening. I thought about a thread possibility called: Constructive Criticism and its rebuttle thread called: Supportive Words and Kudos. This way if Meat wanted to hear some kind words he can click there.....if he is needing other feedback, well then he can click there. It would weed out some of the bs. There are pluses to having seperate threads, but at the same time open forum about one topic can be beneficial to the closed minded. It was a fleeting thought. But I've enjoyed this thread (thank goodness R. moved the food circus from earlier).

When I summerized the private listening parties a bit ago...I loved the idea, and still do. I'm hoping the US gets a taste of Meat up close and personal like that. Plus I love the guard Meat has put up around this album. Protecting it and letting it have "an event". This feels like an event to me. So I thank Meat for keeping friends close and enemies closer.


Well said Julie.

Suzieq

All it needs imo is for people to stick to the work and not comment on Meat's character, motives, values etc .. and when they review/comment spend a fraction of the time he's invested in delivering it to us into thinking about what they're writing and how it comes across, and keep it balanced rather than quickly hurling a few negative comments onto the page.

I like reading all the views expressed as long as they're about the work and expressed with courtesy, and I see no reason why Meat wouldn't be the same. We shouldn't need rebuttal threads really should we in a fan club ;) If criticism IS constructive it IS supportive and not destructive .. and I'm not intending to be coralled into a thread which will be labelled by some the kiss-ass thread .. :lol:

I have no facility for picking up a strange almost inaudible sound on an album, or to analyse or criticise the musical arrangements, so I don't offer that. Meat hasn't produced an album I haven't enjoyed. That's not because I'm just a yes person gushing over my keyboard .. I happen to love his voice, his clarity, his performances, which is why I'm a fan.

I have heard this album and, like the others here who went to the playback, I was blown away by its power. It's very different to his previous albums, and I'm sure there will be those who aren't as blown away as we were. To me it's not operatic and doesn't have the "bombast" traditionally associated with Meat's recordings. I fed that back .. to me that's not a criticism, because I loved the clean real sound. Some will miss that .. I didn't. But that's how I feed back. :| When I review concerts I acknowledge that he may well have missed a note or a cue here or there, but then describe what I saw, heard and felt that made it a great evening .. because frankly I don't notice the odd fluffed note or cue. Others may, but I really don't. I always have a wonderful night of rock and roll, and that's what I write about. It's not kissing ass .. it's the simple truth. And frankly, when I read reviews of concerts I haven't been to I want to hear all the great things that made it special, what people enjoyed.

If people remember the effort and energy that Meat's put into what he does and adopt the Mrs Do As You Would Be Done By principle, plus refrain from criticising his motives and beliefs, we should all be able to rub along in the same thread :-)

Caryl

Yes, that's why I found the thought fleeting...because I actually found more negatives than positives in posting the independent threads. People may fear being labeled as those in the kiss-ass thread and not post their opinions, thanks, or kudos due to that fear. Which sux, but cyber bullying would have the opportunity to reign supreme with the more passive players in the sand box. I read the criticism with an open mind. It seems Meat respects the intelligent thoughts behind it. Likewise I respect the constructive criticism. I also respect the balance.

YES!!!
 

Yes that *is* how it should be! Doode, you have come out of the blue like a breath of fresh air. I saw a couple of your posts and wondered how long it would take for you to succumb to peer pressure and start being cool and above it all. Does that make me cynical? ;)

I love how you said:
And there's no reason why we can't have this attitude and still be honest! "Yes-men" are not honest!!! But being positive doesn't make you a yes-man. Neither does cheering Meat on when he's made a post or tweet you like, or supporting him elsewhere whenever you get the chance, or genuinely anticipating his new album with great excitement and saying so. We're here on this forum because we already love what Meat does; he should be able to depend upon that as a given.

I love your attitude and the perceptive way you write about the amount of positivity an artist needs "to go out and promote something like this, and be confident, and electric..." I love that! So, sign me up for the positivity movement! I'll spring for the champagne!
-Kathy

I love reading your posts Kathy. You are point on (with Doode)! You know what made me so sad....so very sad....VH1, Behind the Music used a line and it hit my heart with a mallet.....paraphrasing: Meat lost it all, his fans had turned on him. They used this line in the original and they used it in the remastered. But, if this is how Meat felt......I can NOT say loud enough that this fan (ME) never, ever, ever turned on him. I just didn't know he felt that way. With internet it's easier to see his feelings and it's way easier to see other's feelings towards Meat. I never would want Meat to feel like we've turned on him. Maybe that's part of my reason for being positively pre-disposed to whatever Meat's involved with.


Suzieq

Very well put Caryl, I feel the same way. I don't usually pick up on these minor things either. I love his voice too, it's what made me fall in love with his music and what has appealed to me since the beginning and seeing him perform in concert is magic. That's why I am a fan.

Carole

Hear hear Kathy, sign me up too and I'll bring a bottle as well. We can show loyalty and support for Meat, by being postive and giving praise where it's due. It doesn't mean we are being arse kissers or yes men, we are just being honest about how we feel. There is a difference.

Carole

Same here Suzie. I can't emphasize enough that I too NEVER EVER EVER turned on Meat either, and never will ever, no matter what. It breaks my heart too that he ever felt that way, but I'm sure they would have been in the minority.

Carole

Kathy - appreciate your words :-)

And... ooh look... anyone notice the date? Getting closer all the time...

...it's almost here! :-D

Hang Cool,

Doode.

You summed it up perfectly for me Kathy :-)
Thank you.

And thank you too Doode ... sign me up !

Me too Caryl, Im not going to sit there and pick out every little thing about it, if I like it, I like it. For me to like a CD/Song, all it needs to do is make me enjoy it, or feel some sort of connection to that song, and there are a fair few that fit into that second category. And in all honesty, yes there are songs of Meat's I don't listen so as much or don't know so well, because I like the others more, not because I don't enjoy them.

I don't care if he drops a note or doesn't quite get there..... to be honest I can't tell, as long as I am enjoying it, I love it.

I don't see this as making me a "Yes person" Just someone whodoes this:

Find something enjoy out of as much as you can, Life is too short to dwell on the negetive.

Rock out.

renegadeangel

you just won yourself a new friend.....lol...i agree that some people won't be totally honest in saying what they really feel about the song or album in fear of pissing the Loaf off........its so stupid......how is Meat ever gonna learn what the public really wants when...you have fans out there that gush over every little thing he does......I honestly wonder if Meat gets annoyed with that......but to each and their own i guess......i love Meat i do...but...i am losing interest in him as a performer with the way he comes on the forums and bashes people......he is not gonna win new fans or keep fans for long if this continues........he needs to learn to accept the critism.....he's 62 years old .....he should have a handle on it by now.......its my 2 cents...

My, you like elipses, don't you?

Okay, down to business. I don't see people 'gushing', I don't see people fearing. And you can count on me to be TOTALLY honest. But what I won't be is:
Rude.
Disrespectful.
Or in some naive belief that I could have done any better.

There's a new Meat Loaf album coming out, and it's sounding AWESOME. So be happy!

Doode ;-)

Hey Rocks,
You've never hold anything back and have no reserve when it comes to letting Meat know on forum where your head is at...and I like that. With my tendency to "gush" at times, I often wonder if Meat gets annoyed as well. That said, I think it may be better for me to be a harmless annoyance than piss him off completely. I do have to say one thing though, I have never seen Meat bash someone for something they didn't bring upon themselves. He invites the criticism but the line crossed is don't get ugly on his character so I think he's got a clear handle on that. Would he do it again? I think so....he's that true to his own self and I feel that IS confidence (not insecurity).

Suzieq

Like I've said before, it's all about respect ... respect for Meat as the artist and Meat as the man behind the scenes.
If someone crosses the line and attacks his character, he has every right to react the way he does. How would you feel if someone did the same thing to you :??:

If someone calls me a "gusher" or "ass-kisser" so what. I'm sure it doesn't annoy Meat in the least ... and I will always love and admire him no matter what.

Agree with that .. plus it would be nice if people would not be rude to other members also ;) Being positive, upbeat and supportive is not "gushing", and respecting people's feelings sould not be dimissed as being fearful of "pissing" anyone off.

Confucious wrote: Straightforwardness, without the rules of propriety, becomes rudeness. A good maxim! Meat only reacts when this goes totally out of the window or when people make negative, incorrect and/or rudely worded assumptions/attacks on his character, his values as a person and a performer. And then it is understandable and I hope he never "learns" to accept that. No-one should ever tolerate that imo in a civil and civilised society.

And imo whilst I'm sure Meat is always interested to know what his fans like/don't like (why else would he come here?) I don't see him as having much to learn about how to perform from most of us ;)

Amen to that.

Caryl

Agree with you Doode - I had to have a similar rant very recently :lol: Cathartic, isn't it?

Caryl, that's exactly what I'm talking about! :cool:

Totally :cool:

You used the keyword there - criticism. Criticism is supposed to be useful, not a personal attack.
There's a big difference between saying

"I do not like the new single - Meat has become a *** sell-out!"
(which, if I remember correctly, is more or less something someone posted here or on Twitter) - that would piss me off, too!

and saying

"I do not like the new single, it is too commercial for my taste (and there you have another thing... MY taste!) and I don't think he needs to change to appeal to the masses." - see what I did here?

As I said at the beginning .. you're preaching to the choir here ;)

And @ asenath:

Perfect examples :-) .. and when people have posted in the way of your second example Meat appears to have found it perfectly reasonable and acceptable.

And to get some perspective .. most people here do show respect whether they like something or whether it's not to their taste .. there are plenty of examples.

AND Meat's cheerful and informing posts greatly outnumber the very few when he's reacted to something that's stepped way over the line. (He seems mostly to pass by the nitpicking that Doode referred to at the start of this thread, just as I try to) The latter posts tend to be longer ;) .. but that's also understandable imo .. and as somene has said elsewhere, these demonstrate his conviction and his passion for his work and his belief in it and himself. Far from making me lose interest in him, it just emphasises for me just how much passion he has .. it's his hallmark both as a performer and as a person, which is why I became a fan in the first place :-)

Caryl

lol suzie ..

.yea i think Meat knows i don't hold back....but so far only los angeloser is the only one appealing to me....:| was really hoping to love it..........but its not biting me.......Sorry Meat !!!!!!!!

That's exactly right. If you don't like something, for whatever reason there's nothing wrong with saying so, but it's HOW you say it. Being rude and abrasive or disrespectful is not the way to do it. I am certainly happy about the new album coming out and agree it is sounding AWESOME!!!!!!!!

Carole

That's right Suzie, although I don't think bash is the right word. But the only times Meat has reacted angrily is when someone has attacked him or his integrity and he has every right to get angry at that. He said himself, he didn't care if people said they didn't like the song, but when they write lies about him and his character he won't take that, and he shouldn't have to. Yeah I'm guilty of 'gushing' and I hope it doesn't annoy him, but if I really love something, I just like to express it, and where else can I do that freely, but on his fan site. I should be able to do so without being accused of being an 'arse kisser' or 'yes-man'. I WANT Meat to know I love his new song, or album or concert or whatever. And if I can't express that on his fan site, then there is something wrong here. Not all of my friends are rabid Meat Loaf fans like I am, and I don't want to bore them too much with my goings on. That's what a fan club is for. And I don't care what other people think of me, I only care what Meat thinks.

Carole

I agree .. angry and righteous indignation is closer to the mark imo .. and is characterised by its passion, but even more by it's infrequency. Let's try to remember and keep in focus that he's accepted all the views posted here about the album as pieces have been revealed, positive and negative, except from just two people. One who posted a diatribe and then wouldn't leave it alone even when Meat gave a detailed and restrained reply; and one who made attacks on his integrity. And then more recently in reaction to comment he found when browsing the internet. Imo those few responses were justifable and don't need defending. Perspective.

Caryl

:roll::roll::roll: OK :roll::roll::roll:

whats a diatribe?

: a bitter and abusive speech or writing
: ironic or satirical criticism?

Just for clarification...."bash" wasn't my word to begin with, but I was responding and relating to Meatrocks words. Nothing more.

What I would say is: I support Meat's position to chew someone's ass out for character defamation and slander. However poetic that comes down to.

I think Meatrocks gets the idea I was trying to come across with. And now I think she's got the idea from others too :).

Suzieq

Sorry Suzie, I wasn't having a go at you, I knew you hadn't said it originally, but I was quoting you and didn't want to use that word myself. I knew what you were gettting at.

Carole

I think it's important to reiterate that the key word that's cropped up a few times in this thread is respect.

Treat everyone and their opinions with a decent level of respect. You can disagree with someones opinion in a reasoned and structured argument (this is after all a discussion board), but don't go and attack the person behind the opinion. Not everyone is going to have the same opinion, because basically everyone is a flawed human being (apart from me obviously because I am perfect 8) ).

Remember that the mod team are here to resolve any "rule breaks", so if you see something that you think is in contravention with the way this site operates, then utilise the "report" function available on every post on the forum and we'll address it. Vigilante behaviour will be frowned upon ;-)


I'd also take issue with the statement from VH-1's behind the music. I along with many on this board have been fans of Meat for a long long time, form the original heyday through the darker days of the 80's, right up to now. We've expereinced the highs and the lows and I know that there were very many who didn't turn their back on Meat during the lows ... if indeed top 10 albums and singles and sell out tours throughout Europe can be considered "lows". VH-1 needs to do some research before broadcasting something like that :))

I so agree that the VH1 statement was a woefully misleading one. I didn't see Meat's popularity decline this side of the Atlantic, and I'm sure his fans elsewhere didn't "turn their backs on him" .. I think arguably the music industry (particularly that in the US) did, but that's not his fans, it's the guys in suits.

And as you say, he was far from dropping off the radar in Europe where he toured pretty continuously to packed out venues and delighted fans. That he didn't elsewhere was imo due more to lack of support from the suits than from fans .. but VH1 has a somewhat limited perspective on the globe amd all it encompasses imo ;)


Caryl

What is this VH1, I don't think I've seen it, is it a DVD or was it a TV show over there?

Carole

They were talking about the original Behind The Music show which aired on
VH1 :wink:

What did VH1 say?
M

It was just the whole "and the fans turned their backs on Meat in the 80's" thing. I actually thought the VH1 behind the music show was pretty cool!


Doode. :cool:

I agree with Andy and (remember this moment!) Caryl. VH1 is talking bollocks. Meat was playing to packed venues all across the UK in the 80's. It was also the time of the legendary LB&GG tour, which no-one in their right mind would have turned their back on.

And it didn't hurt a bit ;)

It's the often myopic focus of US documentaries .. I think the US music business turned away from Meat (which should not be interpreted as his fans turning their backs) and for VH1 the world seems to end at the western shores of the Atlantic :-) It always grates on me when I hear people talking about Meat's "come-back", as if he dropped off the planet until Bat2 .. As far as I'm concerned he never went away ;) He packed them in through the eighties here and also on world tours.

Caryl

Not at the time, but I'm getting a bit of a stinging sensation now. :doh:

Yeah, but it makes for one hell of a great rock n roll story! :-)

Doode. :cool:

Then my cup runneth over ;)

And @ Doode

True .. but the real version is a great rock and roll story too ;) Nothing about Meat's journey or the way he has tackled it, head down and driving to the touchline is lacking in "BIG" :D

Big man, big voice, enormous talent, huge heart, energy, focus and determination. Needs no "embiggening" ;)

Caryl

is that a word?

It's a perfectly cromulent word.

Dude, isn't this thread like your Kryptonite, or something??

Doode. :-P

Doode, why would you think such a thing?

Evil One, I have no idea at all. :shock:

Then go and sit in the corner and contemplate.

Um, no.

PS - anyone who hasn't heard them yet, Hang Cool clips http://www.exlibris.ch/musik/cd/meat...=0602527340975 - go there now - they're awesome!

it was the narrator who stated that us fans turned our backs on you along with the record companies...

No worries Carole....you and I are often on the same page. I didn't think you were having a go at me.



Hey Meat, it's how the others have said.....the direct line came in at 23:14 of the link below. Quoting narrator "Deadringer dropped off the charts after 11 weeks, and Meat found himself once again in freefall. It wasn't only the fans that turned their backs on Meat Loaf. After the disappointment of Dead Ringer, his record and management companies went from allies to adversaries."

http://www.vh1.com/video/behind-the-...playlist.jhtml

As you have said Meat, a lie can become the truth. It pains me to think that your truth was that the fans turned on you. I'd rather think that the narrator built up that line for the sake of a more dramatic punch (as if the documentary really needed it).

However, I don't want you to believe for one second that I've ever turned my back on you and others have voiced much of the same.


Suzieq

What tosh!!!!!!

Well, I wasn't really around in the 80's lol, only the last 2 years of that decade, But I won't do that!!!!

I agree with you mel, it is tosh. I was around in the 70s & 80s. I didn't get to go to any shows back then, was a little too young. I have Dead Ringer, Blind Before I Stop, Midnight at the lost and found, Bad attitude and more. They are on cassette and I love all of them. Not all the songs that are on them but the majority of them. I also have them on my IPOD. This "FAN" didn't turn her back the Meat Loaf. People should be constructively negative and not bashing. I don't see any reason for that except to get someone's attention.

I think VH1 included it in the narration just to embellish the story Chris, and not intended as anything particularly destructive. Here people have just been saying that although the music business may have turned their backs on Meat his fans didn't .. and that he had built a pretty solid career in the 80s touring in Europe and also around the world :-)

Caryl

It was from the original Behind The Music, which, I believe, aired in 1998.

The Remastered was aired on March 13, 2010.

This all began on page 1. It was just something brought up to solidify a point about support and love. Others commented along the way to say they stood by Meat too....Meat asked the question what was said. And, no it wasn't about the new release, but it was positive in spirit, reflecting that we are positively supporting him, all the way. Then and now. It was just a point of reference and an example...nothing more.

Suzieq

Well, I'll go on the record to say it was me who brought VH1 up on the last post on page 1. But if you won't let me take the blame, I can't help that. LOL. But to the thread and Meat, if it had generated any negativity during this exciting time, I apologize deeply.

Let's walk away together and start up the praisin' again. I'm very happy that .net has made a leap forward and I spy a little tour box with a little date to watch for. May 1!!!!

Suzieq

Yeah I saw that too Suzie, it's getting exciting. These concerts are going to be a blast!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Especially when Meat sings California Isn't Big Enough with THAT line in the song!!!!!!!!!

Carole

here's some postive stuff imo. the vh1 remastered, I love it. it did include Bat 3 and HCTB at the end. I just look at .net and WOW, the way it looks now is really cool. Can't wait for May to see tour dates. REALLY EXCITED NOW. Can't wait to see what kind of stage show HCTB is going to be. imagination running wild now. maybe the red suit with the pink bunny slippers???? lol

If he sings it with the same joy that was on his face when we heard it at the London listening event then it could well be one of the highlights of the show. With so many good songs to choose from though, it's going to be a tough call choosing which ones to add to the set list and which ones to leave out.

How cool would it be if, just for this tour, Meat performed the entire album with NO past tracks. No AFL, no Paradise, no Bat...

Doode. :cool:

It'd be interesting certainly, but I'm pretty sure he's already ruled out performing the album in it's entirety.

Haha, I know, realistically it'd be such a long shot, too.
But just thinking of it gave me a gig-boner, so I'm pretty happy all round.
Doode. ;-)

Not very. A good portion of the audience would come away disappointed.

Ah, Evil One, you make me grin.

didn't he say the record company wanted him to do that but he refused?

Really? I never heard that one.

Iron Maiden did it with A Matter of Life and Death, advertised it as such (so there was no disapointment to the folks who expected Number of the Beast and The Trooper......again) and it was a phenomenal success.

But, as I said, it's massive risk of 'will anyone turn up'.

Doode.

Well, he's right.

Plus you're assuming that all the songs will work as a live performance.

Yes, in a Tweet he said they'd suggested it .. but by the next day they'd thought better of the idea .. and he seemed relieved ;) (Didn't he say something like he thought it would kill him?) I got the feeling he might have planted a few seeds of doubt for them to mull over when they first suggested it :-)

I'd love the concept .. but can see it would be a huge undertaking, plus I agree that many of the thousands who pack into the arenas wouldn't be as favourably disposed as some of us here. One of the main objectives of a tour would be to sell the new album, and showcasing tracks to create the desire to buy. But many fans will buy their tickets to hear again the songs they already know and love to see performed live: they're the songs that get the audience to its feet roaring and cheering, and I believe Meat knows that very well and it informs his set decisions every tour.

But leaving aside the expectations of his fanbase as a whole, the logistics, the huge amount of planning and rehearsal that would be required, plus the energy and effort from everyone on stage .. Yes, it would be a marvellous dream show :-)

Caryl

i've known of artists who have played an entire album all the way through in a show. Aerosmith tried it with toys in the attic last year, before Steven Tyler's fall from the stage.

Bryan Adams played the entire Reckless album all the way through in a show which fell on the 25th Anniversary of the album (I think it was in London)

It's not uncommon for it to happen but when an act has been around for so long, the normal fans (as such) come for the "hits" and tolerate songs from the new album.

With that said I like to see a full performance of the album live. it'd be very interesting to see how it'd work out live.

I think if anyone could make all of them work it would be Meat with his imagnation and dramatic flair, and it would be a fantastic and wild piece of drama played out on the stage .. but you're right in saying it wouldn't meet the expectations of his main fanbase.

If he were to do it as a showcase at a few selected venues I'd be there like a shot .. but the costs (both financial and in effort) involved for a few shows would be prohibitive imo ..

Caryl

According to a German music magazine, Meat has already thought of that idea and allegedly talked to several people about it.

Again... Iron Maiden. A Matter of Life and Death. Tour. Success. Etcetera.

I'm not saying I think Meat should do that, but I know I'd like to see it.

And on the subject of change... if it wasn't for shaking things up and trusting in a new direction, this record wouldn't exist, and we'd still be on the path of 'what fans expect to hear'. Ballady ballady ballad.

Doode :cool: