What should 'Brave & Crazy' sound like?
 

In the last few days most of the fans were talking about his/her expectation of Brave & Crazy. I'm with the Steinman style but I'm just curious what should Brave & Crazy (or any new Meat album) sound like. So, vote!

I hope it follows the vein of the last two albums

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It should sound like whatever Meat decides it should sound like

This topic is not about what Meat wants, it's about what fans want. ;)

I was going to say that...(though I didn't want to be picky as your info says you're from Budapest rather than the UK ;) ) big difference between what it "should" sound like and what we hope it will sound like. I'm thinking it's probably the second one!

I don't know what to pick based on that list! :lol:

I'd imagine it'll be closer to HCTB and HIAHB as that's what he's doing in this era, but who knows...he might suprise us all, might be something completely different that none of us will guess!

What kind of style you want? - is it clearer? ;)

I think the wording of your poll options betrays your own preferences and disappointment in his newer work ;) I wouldn't call HIAH "light" at all.

I think Meat found his musical style, the one he's been working towards, with his last two albums, and for me, in 2012/3, this is what I hope to hear more of. I love the "live" sound that Paul creates for us, and would expect Meat will move his style on creatively. This is also what I would like. I don't want him to go back, but keep moving forward, and I love the current blend of heavy guitar and Justin's brilliant piano. I opted for HIAH because there wasn't one that said "Keep moving forward, and surprise and delight me"

I can't decide what to vote for... I have high expectations about Brave and crazy and I know it will be another GREAT album !!!! :D

I don't call HCTB light either. But I call HIAHB light. It's not my preferences. HIAHB was one of his lightest album with soft ballads and easy rock songs. rap is rap, I wasn't pejorative. I was pejorative with Desmond Child like almost everybody here. ;)

You say you have expectation. What's that?

That's what I said .. it's your preference; you consider HIAH "light". Some don't. I think there is incredible depth in the songs, and the music isn't what I'd ever describe as "light"; it just isn't like Steinman. And my choice would be to keep moving forward based on the style that emerged in his last two albums.

... or backwards depending on your opinion. I'd like it to be more like Steinman, in fact by Steinman, they need to collaborate now !

OK .... moving ahead and exploring new avenues .. walking into the future .. experimenting with new and different sounds and styles, rather than returning to the style he started out with and pursued in the 90s.

You may well consider that a retrograde step in terms of meeting your wishes .. but it's not moving back, it's pursiung something new ..

I'm sure Meat and Jim will never collaborate again and I'd be surprised if Meat recorded any Steinman song on the new album but... Meat is 65 years old and most of his fans became his fans because of Bat and heavy Steinman songs.

Meat is not young. I think he doesn't need to change the world so I don't undertand his future searching. He has fans and they are a little bit older and more old-fashioned than Justin Bieber's fans so I'm with people who want to see more Steinman songs. It will not happen because Meat wants to be young and maybe a little be scared to get back his succesful style...

Yes its moving on, or in a different direction - and if Jim is not up for it then he has no choice - but Meat is better with Jim and vice versa. Meat + Jim is where it all started, why we're all here, and why we continue to be here ...

It's called creative and artistic drive .. as Meat recently said when asked what his greatest accomplishment is to date “I haven’t had it yet, still working on it. When you can answer that question, it’s time to quit.” and "I look at (my work) artistically, because I have a lot to say"

The best Meat Loaf albums sound big - really BIG, DECADENT and EXTRAVAGANT!

Needs songs that can justify that though. That's where many of the songs on TMIL fell short IMHO.

Meat and Jim together would be brilliant... Also loved Bad Attitude too, Paul and Sarah great writers :)

Time will tell...:D woop! woop!

Steinman sound. needs what part of my body.

I wouldn't mind a mix of Steinman, Rick Brantely and James Michael. I reckon that'd make for a pretty awesome album :D

If it's the Steinman sound, the part of the body part that it needs is below the waist. In my faded levis.

:D

Whilst Jim Stienman may have written the songs that first made me notice Meat, my continued presence here has nothing to do with Jim Stienman, I'm here because I'm interested in and like Meat.

I buy a Meat Loaf album to hear Meat Loaf, it doesn't worry me who else is involved, be it Rob Cavallo, Jack Black or even Jim Stienman. I have enjoyed the albums that Meat has released without Jim, just as much as I have enjoyed any of the others and if you asked me what my favourite album was, it would be HIAH.

I trust Meat to release an album that I will enjoy and so far he hasn't disappointed and I continue to have every faith that will continue into the future.

A mix of Bad attitude and HCTB would please me the most but I'm open to anything music wise :D

I think it should sound however the heck Meat & co want it to sound ;)

:up:

"Go back to the 80ies, Sarah Durkee and Paul Jacobs I want" - this is my choise. Why? Maybe because I was born in the 80-s. Maybe because I like Sarah Durkee and Paul Jacobs style. Or maybe because I love 80-s music :cool:. Maybe ... Anyway I don't want Steinman style, because without Jim, IMHO, it wouldn't be good.

I couldn't agree more Jenna :up:
I truly love all of Meat's albums .. but my favorites are HCTB and HIAHB :-)

I'm genuinely torn. I love Steinman songs and James Michael wrote amazing songs on CHSIB. I also love HIAH. As long as it's Meat, Patti, and the NLE, I know it will be amazing.

:twisted: I've a feeling that this is going to boil down to a "should the new album sound like Bat or HCTB" :bleh:

As long as they leave the rap out, i'm sure i'll be happy :up:

As i've said (many times, but we have many threads :shrug: ) it took a lot of the HCTB material time to grow on me (and some of it never has) but HIHB was a great return to form.

I'd be happy with Steinman, i'd be happy with HIHB without any rap, and anything in between.

I like the idea of another Jim Steinman penned and involved album w/ Meat Loaf on the vocals. I'm not sure who the musicians would be, but Patti, Paul, Kasim Sulton, Rory Dodd, John M, Avery and/or Alexander come to me instantly. Throw in Caswell or a Mrs. Loud and an unheard Steinman spoken track for bad measure ;) Brave and Crazy..

And if it isn't going to be Steinman related, I like the idea of P Jacobs and S Durkee returning for at least a song or few. And also Rick Brantley! This would have to include Bob Kulick of course ;) Put Kulick and Crook in the same studio and be interesting for sure. Especially if the album hits on the 'Song of Madness' 'Land Of The Pig' tone.. It would work.
Hang Cool had a lot of broad modern rock arrangements. Perhaps Brave and Crazy would be something with a harder edge. With Paul as producer, why not. Paul's work on Handbasket was a real good job. The material on that album is well done.

Like I see, Steinman wins.

It's obvius.
Jim Steinman puts a special atmosphere in his songs.
And if we think of the incredible musical work he did in the bat 2 with the inimitable vocals and great choirs, the quality and success in the production, ... is impossible not to be another Steinman album
I hope they both come together to revolutionize the world again!!


Bat Out Of Hell: Brave And crazy
All songs by Jim Steinman
Produced by Jim Steinman


Paul Crook: I'm sure he would be happy to discover the world Steinman.
regards

Fair enough ... but it looks like you're in a minority ... a Jim album is winning the poll hands down at the moment ;)

Eight options, and Jim is getting 75% of the vote - fairly emphatic if you ask me.

I for one agree with Jenna, and quite frankly the poll answers are phrased in such a way to skew the results so not so emphatic, especially with all those stupid ass options.

This poll only needed two options

Jim

No Jim

That is a poll that could provide a legit, emphatic answer

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Or perhaps

Jim

No Jim

I don't mind as long as it's Meat

If Steinman had some songs that fitted with Meat's vision for the album I'd be OK with that. If not, fine. I love the path Meat is on now, that's what I'm looking forward to, and I doubt a poll of 50-100 people would push him off course anyway ;)

But it already does:

Jim (one option total) 75% of vote

No Jim (seven options total) 25% of vote

How is this not a legit, emphatic answer ?

Presumably Meat WILL be involved in the album at some stage ...

I believe that's what she was getting at, either way, she will just be happy to have something from Meat.

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this poll is overwhelmingly lop-sided. meat needs to take a serious note to this.

So people would blindly like to stumble down the path of an album full of Steinclunkers like Cry To Heaven than an album of dynamic tunes just because of the writer??

Great poll so glad it was multiple choice!

Amusing. However I believe I explained what I meant reasonably well:

I think Cry To Heaven at the end of Bat3 wasn't the idea of Jimmy. Bat3 was a strong and heavy material but the pruduction and Meat's voice was very far from good. I think people want Steinman songs but with perfect sound. And I think, Meat should see this topic because it shows what fans really want...

I think we know that nothing on the production of Bat3 was down to Jim, but that's hardly the point.

There will be some who want a complete Steinman album, written and produced by him, with perfect sound .. another BOOH. And this is 2012 and it won't happen.

This topic shows what people who post on the UK forum want. To extrapolate that to all that follow him would be speculation. BOOH caught a moment in its time. That level of sales is extraordinary and would never be repeated imo. His recent albums have sold well, and well enough that he is still able to bring out new albums .. and on disc. At every show I've been to in recent years, those in the audience love to hear the songs from that early era, but also show every evidence of enjoying his newer work.

I think Meat, who is working on his new album, will do what he wants to do artistically with Paul and a great band. Some will love it, some won't. But imo the thing that keeps him still working after so many years with undiminished energy, drive, creativity and enthusiasm is .. in his words, because he still has something to say, and to explore and to give. The only "should" in my view would be that he continues to do this as long as he feels that way.

I don't think this is something most people would agree with. To my ears the strength of Meat's voice on Bat 3 was excellent, and one of the best things about it. Most professional reviews I read for Bat 3 specifically noted how good he sounded, and even if their review of the overall package wasn't as good as the first two, I saw none that rated his voice as anything but excellent.

With respect, given recent events on this board I'd think most would avoid commenting such opinions as facts.

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You just answered your own question, 7 vs 1 it's skewed, like one of our bad political polls over here.

You only get a true answer with a 1 on 1 situation .

Until its 1 on 1 this poll really means nothing, it was a skewed attempt to get the answer that the pollster wanted, not the truth

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It doesn't worry me in the slightest that I may be in the minority with my opinion but this topic did ask what people's opinions were so I stated it. :D

I agree with the point Caryl made, this topic does not reflect the opinions of the whole fanbase and the UKF is only a small part of it. Even if Meat were to read it, it might not make any difference anyway. It's not all down to Meat and he has said in interviews in the past that he always holds the door open for Jim. Perhaps the reason why it hasn't happened is down to Jim and the way he works.

Really, with then already working on the recording of the album, that pretty much shows that there isn't any significant involvement from Steinman. The process is already moving to fast for his pace.

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Theoretically, he might have had these songs sitting around / been working on them on for the last five years in preparation for Brave and Crazy, for all we know :shrug: I'm with you in that I doubt he's involved, but its not impossible ;)

Also, I can't see people who are on the fringes of Meat Loaf fanship (in that they don't post here) differing in opinion from the poll. He isn't exactly famous for HCTB or HIAHB. I'd consider the people here to be his most dedicated fans, and if most of them want a Steinman album, is anyone who follows Meat's work even slightly less devoutly going to want otherwise? :shrug:

It was a cruel idea to mention theres a new album coming but to avoid giving any detail about it :lol:

Glaciers move too fast for Jim's pace. The album would not be released for at least 3 years if Jim were heavily involved. I think they barely got Bat2 out in time before the music world changed. I know the whole VH1 heavy rotation and specials would have been far less likely just a short time later when VH1 "evolved".

This poll would be totally pointless. There are no 2 groups of songwriters, Jim and not Jim. I think our poll is almost cover Meat's entire career. Jim is one of his songwriter... James Michael is another. HIAHB has various composers but its style is different as well. PJ and SD are other type of songwriters and Meat's style. There is rap and opera as well. Or there is Bat3 what had "sound-like-Steinman" songs with another producer. So what's the problem? I think 75% of the active fans vote for Jim and 25% vote for anything else. Or we can understand it as 15% want James Michael and 85% want other songwriter. But the fact is fact. 75% of voters want Jimmy and his style. Could we keep a poll with 50 voters as a representative statistics?

"I don't mind as long as it's Meat" - this one is foolish. I'm not a fan who likes everything what my idol does. There are a lot of Meat songs what I don't like and listen at all. There are a lot of songs on the last 2 albums what I cannot bear so I really mind what Meat does...

This, is foolish.

Who are you to tell others what they should, & should not like?

A fan who doesn't like everything what his idol does. I hope it's answer to your question. ;)

Doesn't make telling someone else that their view is foolish right.

No one said you had to like everything, so why should there be people that aren't allowed to like everything?

Did I? I said that this point of poll would be foolish, not someone who votes that. Right?

Meh, You may have meant it the way you say here ^^^ but that's not the way it came across.

Well you didn't exactly make that clear in your original statement and I read it as saying that it's foolish to have the opinion that you don't mind who writes or produces the album as long as it's Meat. As someone who actually holds that opinion I would take offence to you calling my opinions foolish.

I think what I want to think and I dont need YOUR approval to do so.

This point of a poll would be foolish. No anyone who votes that. There is no election like Obama-Romney-Whoever. People can think "whoever" because they don't care about them but it will never be an option. So it has no legitimacy...

As a personal view... I can't talk to someone about Meat's music who doesn't care what she/he gets from the album because the most important think that is Meat Loaf. It's not a rational view. You can say that you don't care who is the producer or songwriter of the album, then we are not gonna be partner in this conversation...

That's is wrong.

A poll with 8 choices is a ware of time when all you want to know is whether people want Steinman involved or not.

Your poll completely lacks legitimacy and is pointless Steinman pandering

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Who the hell do you think you are to say my opinion is not rational?

What's irrational is refusing to have a discussion with someone just because their opinion does not agree with yours. Why did you bother asking the question if you're not willing to accept other people's right to have an opinion.

Then here is a dictionary to the poll!

I want Steinman sound, power ballads and heavy choir (I want Steinman songs or sound)
Go back to the 80ies, Sarah Durkee and Paul Jacobs I want (I want Sd and PJ songs and 80ies sound)
I like his lighter songs, more HIAHB-style albums (I want his new style)
More songs by James Michael like CHSIB (I want James Michael and CHSIB sound)
I think rap is perfect on a Meat album (I want his new style with more rap)
Hate me but I find Bat3 great, so back to Desmond Child (I want Steinman-like songs and I want Desmond make an album)
I love acoustic and Meat has never done one (I want acoustic sound)
Let's sing opera! (I think an opera album would be great)

2 out of 8 has any connection to Jimmy. 2 out of 8 has any connection to his new style. 2 out of 8 has new wave (opera, acoustic). 2 out of 8 has 2 other songwriters and 2 different styles. If you think it's still about Jimmy than you have persecution mania I guess...

I don't know your opinion because you are talking about me and not Meat Loaf.

I'm a little bit disapointed that I have to explain SOMEONE is not JennaG in my sentence. I help you... AS A PERSONAL VIEW... I can't talk to SOMEONE about Meat's music who doesn't care what she/he gets from the album. If you are one of them then we have don't need to talk about Meat's music and new album because I don't keep it a rational opinion. Just to use your words: can I keep a view like that not rational?

Jim ain't going to write or produce an album - not going to happen. Maybe recycle an old song either as a cover or rehash into something "new" - big maybe. I seriously doubt you will see Desmond Child again. Parts of the album seem to already be in motion and I foresee it going much the same as HIAH maybe with a Jim retread. If the Steinman sound is not a realistic option, I'd like the HCTB "big" production with songs more like HIAH and something again by James Michael. Thought HCTB had a great sound but weaker songs than HIAH. Plus it seems the HIAH method is much cheaper.

I agree with you loaferman61. Brave and Crazy won't be a Steinman album. I would be happier with a Desmond Child-Steinman album than a HCTB style, just don't sell it as Bat4 or Renegade Angel or anything by Steinman. Bat3 was a great album with bad production (because they wanted to do a Bat without Jim) but the material was great...

Indeed? Well you are damn rude.

First I do not set Meat on a pedestal, nor see him as an idol. It's patently obvious you do not do this either, so saying that you don't like everything that your idol does is meaningless, unless you are referring to me, in which case you are wrong. I see him as a gifted and great performer, and a good human being I like a lot, and consider a friend.

I am entitled to express my view based on my experience ie that in over 35 years Meat has not disappointed me, and that FOR ME his latest two albums are great, that I love his musical direction and Paul's production. I speak for me, and I love what he is now doing. Did I love BOOH? Yes. Were Steinman's songs brilliant? Yes. He wrote some of the best songs and saw in Meat the perfect voice and passion to engage the world with them. Does that mean I cannot enjoy Meat singing other songs written by other gifted composers? No. Do I trust Meat to be able to find songs I love to hear him sing which have been written by other composers? Yes.

My point was I would not say "No Steinman", nor would I say "Only Steinman". I am saying I trust Meat to find songs which I will love. If he has a Steinman penned song that fits with the album as a whole, then great. But the most important thing from my view is that he delivers an album where the songs fit his vision for the whole, and that each has a fit with the one preceding it and coming after. I love Meat's style of delivering a cohesive whole rather than a collection of songs

Well you have made that very obvious on this forum time and again. However, I do not have to feel the same way .. thank God. I suppose I am the lucky one, as there is nothing on Meat's albums I cannot bear, and my continued enjoyment of his work is not dependent on one composer or one style.

However, to assert that the musical taste and enjoyment of anyone who does not share yours is foolish is as impertinent as it is ignorant. I do not treat Meat as a God. However, whilst I respect Steinman for all he has given the world musically (something Meat demands on the board which bears his name btw), I do not see him as a God either. And it is Meat's voice, Meat's passion, Meat's performance that I look forward to .. so

I do not mind who writes the songs as long as Meat delivers them.

(And I have already responded elsewhere to a question on the lines of even if they're rubbish songs .. Meat does not choose songs that he cannot deliver and make special for me)

That may be your personal view. In which case better not to ask the question if you cant accept others see the world differently.

To describe the view of anyone who thinks the most important aspect will be that it is Meat is NOT irrational. It is another's view, and as valid as anyone else's.

No-one has rudely suggested your view is irrational .. nor refused to converse with you. Your assertions and statements might be seen as bigoted and blinkered.

That's not my words since mine wouldn't make that little sense.

I will quote your message since you clearly have forgotten what YOU have said.

YOU said that it is not a rational view to not care about what comes from the album because the most important thing is Meat Loaf. As someone who holds the opinion along those lines, I felt like I had every right to reply.

You have no right to say ANYONE'S opinion is irrational just because it is not what you wanted to hear.

FYI: I have every faith in Meat Loaf to produce a great album and it is irrelevant to me who else is involved. I actually voted in your stupid poll that I was hoping that the new album would sound like the two more recent albums.

"I don't mind as long as it's Meat" and "I do not mind who writes the songs as long as Meat delivers them" are not the same. The same story with the word "foolish". I would keep this point of poll foolish, not someone who votes that. Explanation up there.

You can like everything what you want. But I keep my opinion: we don't have to be partner in a conversation about Meat's new album if you dan't care about who writes the songs, who produces or who plays on it. Because the view "I don't care just be under the name of Meat" I don't keep rational.

But... if you don't care about anything why do you vote???

You are on the wrong side of the horse, Caryl. I think my poll covered Meat's entire career (Steinman, 80ies, CHSIB, new style, futrure style). More than 50 people voted more than any other polls in the last years. You can still keep it 'my personal view' but it's not. I don't unerstand why people who like that much Meat's new style keep this poll that offensive.

I accept anybody's opinion but personally I don't keep a view like I don't care about anything just be Meat Loaf rational. You are who can't accept it...

:twisted: Enough!

Personal opinion is not fact, and nobody's opinions are "foolish".

Either show some respect for each others opinions or this thread can go bye bye. :lock:

You're right! And I don't do that... but personally I can't argue or talk to anybody about the new album who doesn't care about its songs, style, producers, songwriters, etc. because I don't find it a rational stance.

FlyingMouse!

Please delete all of the quotes from the 'new poll idea' because everything after that it's totally pointless...

And I didn't say that anyone's opinion is foolish. ;)

And again, you conveniently leave out my explanation of that option (although are happy to finally post yours) I explained that option was

If Steinman had some songs that fitted with Meat's vision for the album I'd be OK with that. If not, fine.

Even given English is your second language, I find that bizarre. This thread is headed "What should Brave and Crazy" sound like? I do care about that. I have said I like Meat's current style, his new direction musically, and that this is the style I hope to see, have said I hope Paul will produce, have said I love the current band line-up and hope to find heavy guitar and Justin's brilliant piano .. How the hell is that not having an interest? Just because it's not in accord with your wishes?

However saying what I'd like does not preclude me from TRUSTING his musical creativity and judgement. Nowhere have I said I "don't care about anything". I'd rather his current style than return to BOOH, but if he intends to take me further on his journey musically, that's great.

Please don't delete my posts Neil as I do not consider them pointless.

:twisted: I'll settle for everyone going back on topic.

If someone wants to create a simplified version (Jim or no Jim) go ahead, but on this thread treat the question as asked in the poll.

Exactly!

LMFAO you just asked a mod to delete all of the opinions that didn't work with your "personal preference" that is just hilarious

And you called more than one persons opinion foolish

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It's a lie... I didn't do that. I called a point of a poll foolish, not an opinion. But continue and mods will close the topic and new style lovers will be happy with that.

Mr De'ville, your lawyer is here
 

:twisted: To be fair to WOH here, I think there is some misunderstanding in the word of the use "rational".

Please keep in mind that his English is still better than most of our Hungarian :wink:

I think the word "relevant" may be a better word (but perhaps still not right :? )


I think WOH is making the point that this thread is for people who have a more deffinate opinion than "i'm happy with what I get".

Let's face it, if we all said that over and over again we wouldn't need a forum :shrug:

I remember on another forum I was told off in no short order by another member when I posted on a thread about the Olympics opening ceremony. I said that I didn't watch it, and wasn't planning on watching on any of the games.

I used a couple of smilies to add a little humor to the post, but one member was quite annoyed off that I appeared to be "pissing on their chips".

His point being "if you don't like the Olympics, don't troll about them in a thread where people are interested".
I explained that I wasn't trolling, but apologised if it was how it appeared.

To be honest, I think my opinion, that I didn't like the games, is more (here comes that word again :facepalm: ) relevant than some of the posts that say they don't care who is involved.

After all, it's one thing to say "I hate the games, and I won't be watching the men's 100 meters race" and a different thing to say "I love the olympics, i'll be glued to my seat for the race, but I really don't give a damn who wins" :wink:

I do think that it's a relevant point of view to say you'll be happy no matter who is involved, but I think it can be frustrating for some when that point prevails in several threads that are created with a more lively discussion in mind :wink:

And so, back to topic...........

:twisted: The last two posts were off topic.

The last two posts are now gone :bleh:

No its not, if anything, having seven alternatives to a Jim album means its more likely that people will vote for one of the other seven options. :twisted:

Then start your own poll and we'll see who is right ... :roll: