Meat's 2015 plans?
 

He wrote this today on Facebook:

Meat Loaf : WE might do 2 to 5 of shows in the UK in 2015, the O2, Manchester , and Edinburgh, Scotland . Before going to Poland and Russia. Then South America and do the " Last at bat tour in Australia. Also more shows in Vegas. The new album has 6 Jim Steinman songs on the Record, Total of 14 songs on the record. IT is a great record !!!! M

Erm... really?

Oh God, let it be true....

happy face

Fantastic - 6 songs, hopefully some new stuff as well.

:twisted: Doesn't sound like definite plans, but something to hope for :)

Exactly .. he said MIGHT .. so before we start getting him on a plane .. ;)

And he seems to have thought better of announcing his thoughts ... it seems to have been removed from his FB page now. It's early days and just possibilities imo

of those 6 songs I'm hoping body is one of them

So it's Bat 3, but...better!

14 songs and almost half of them are by Jim! This just made my day :D I wonder if he's still looking at a 2014 release date for this. The fact that the track listing sounds finalised sounds promising.

The latest I read (on Meat's FB page) is that it's going to be released in February 2015.

Would love to see Last at Bat in the US.

me to :)

I know I'm probably in the minority but I'm actually a little bit disappointed at this news because that means that there will be less room for songs by the other writers.
I've really loved some of the songs that Meat has recorded in more recent years and was looking forward to hearing more from some of those writers.

Never mind. It's still great that Meat is working on a new album and I will still be looking forward to its release and hearing what Meat's done with the songs.

The album could be 2015 then? Boooo!!! I suppose with steinman involved it could be 2017??? 😃

Those other 8 songs are going to be very short. Or it will be a double CD album. Or some will be download only. :sherlock:

Body is not one of them , That song is under contract for the Musical .
Meat

Hey Meat hope all is well :)


Wow - so the musical is still on? That's great news!


Can you say anything about the 6 songs - are they newly written, or what era did they come from?

~~~~~~. I guess Body is one song we'll never hear then. :lol:

2015 will be a good year.


Hi Meat, btw!

It's certainly got potential huh! (though 2014 ain't looking too bad either!)

Lots of good things to look forward to, very happy!

thanks for the heads up Meat, we will be ready to surport it!

Getting excited again :-) and hi Meat *waves*

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Thanks for the update Meat :-)

I almost can't wait until I have your next album in my hands! :-)

Well that contract really sucks if that's the case. This locking up songs in a cupboard hasn't done anyone any favours I think.

me three :D

Great...potential...news.
Hopefully find that piggy bank I asked the wife to move... :faint:

This is what it's all about, Great News Meat :bunny:

Great ... Super news to all fans. :-)

:pray: This is (for me) the most exciting part. :-)

God I wish we could get LAB IN US!!!!!!!

Meat... Excitment has just flooded me hearing the news at the top of this thread! But please, please, please do a recording of What Part Of My Body Hurts The Most please? Even if it's just a B-Side. Good god, Meat, that song is made for your voice... And if you need a duet partner... I'm always a call away lol

Why the bloody hell would you want to waste such a superb song as a B-side? :nuts:

There's no reason why Meat can't record the song and release it at a later date though.

2014 question: What's a B-side?

Given the fact Meat hasn't released a "b side" since 2006 AFAIK I think it's highly unlikely any amount of effort would go into such a process, let alone an amazing song.

BTW given the fact Stuart Beattie's "I, frankenstein" completely bombed at the cinema box office and got terrible reviews even with regards to HIS screenplay I think the chances of Bat out of Hell The Musical still happening are getting slimmer still.... (he was suppossed to be working on the book for the musical)

:D


:(

we can hope

Ahem. Prize Fight Lover.

Body is a great song, but who's to say some of the new ones ain't better? Brave and crazy is a good title etc, but I think it could be given another title? Maybe call it renegade angel? Always loved that title

I think Brave and Crazy fits Meat much better ;) Renegade Angel sounds like a Steinman title, and whilst it may have 6 Steinman compositions it has 8 more, and it will be a Meat album. This could be his last album (apart from the Christmas one), and Brave & Crazy just sums up this amazing man's career imo .. his approach, his strength, the way he's kicked obstacles out of the way, his refusal to back down in the face of difficulty, his vision for the big and spectacular, his constant pursuit of that elusive perfect show.

Meat may change it by the time it's released, but I think it's perfect. You need to be both brave and not a little crazy to push ahead and succeed in the way he has done all his life ;)

Each to there own I guess? I like brave and crazy, but I just have a feeling it might not stay that. Tom cochrane has a song called brave and crazy? = maybe meat recorded that? Hence the title. Didn't he do cochranes mad mad world?

That wasn't a B Side that was a free released download track AFAIK.

It got my hopes up that HCTB was going to sound more like that song like a Steinman/Springsteen hybrid but I actually thought it was somewhat misleading since the song wasn't even on the album. But it's a whole different story....

Sure they could do that with Body but it wouldn't make sense. If Meat can't add it to the album because of contracts etc it's just not going to happen.

To be fair most of the songs that have impressed me most are the ones I didn't know before: Anything for Love, PFL, Objects, Blind as a Bat, DIST, CHSIB., What about Love. etc...

My guess is that because its under contract as well as all the other newer Steinman songs that wè`ve heard about, Meat will probably never get the chance to record them. It might all tie in with the deal involving BAT3 and Steinman`s Bat musical agreement.
Or maybe Steinman just said no.

Very true.
However CHISIB was supposed to be FUNHOUSE and then TESTIFY
HCTB had a working title of BULL IN A CHINA SHOP
BAT 2 was going to be called NEVERLAND
Even going back to DEADRINGER was at one point called I`LL KILL YOU IF YOU DON`T COME BACK but that was more Steinman`s idea
Point is it could be anything until it actually comes out.
I would also be of the opinion that Steinman may have some input into the title as he is clearly more onboard than he was in the beginning.
Gone from 2 to 6 songs and it wouldn`t surprise me to see it go to 10.

Yes he did, on HIAH, in his own style.

Of course. I'm aware of all the working titles which were revised, and I said Meat may change it. I was simply responding to the suggestion "Renegade Angel" would be better, and saying why I thought Brave & Crazy was a wonderfully apposite title for a Meat album which might be his last, and saying why.

Perhaps .. but it's Meat's album, and his decision imo. From everything I've heard Steinman has been "on board" for a long time in terms of delivering songs for the album. Meat says 6 plus 8 others, and this came across as what he's going with. I'm more than happy with that. He has some other great writers on board and I'm looking forward to those equally. They have already written songs for Meat which I have loved and with which I could connect powerfully today. I think it's about balance :-)

I think Brave & Crazy is the better title of the two. I think Renegade Angel is a pretty poor title to be honest. :shrug:

Aren't 14 songs too much?

It's about quality, not quantity. IMO 10 songs are way enough, focussing on those 10 might give better quality? But I don't know how the recordbusiness works. Maybe they demand a minimum amount of songs.

All I know is that 14 songs is enough to get the album banned from Walmart. :lol:

Bat 3 had 14 I think?

Exactly my point. :-)

Well for me Meat only and always delivers quality. It also depends on the length of the songs.

This isn't a Bat album, so I compare with his last three albums, (and any comparison to Bat 3 is likely to lead to disapprobation from thise here who have little regard for it.

HCTB had 14, HIAH had 12, CHSIB had 12 plus the instrumental. These are imo 3 great albums, and they are the ones I listen to the most. So 14 will not be too much for me .. and I trust Meat to make the decisions on choice and the number of songs .. it's one more thing he does best ;)

And I was right ... :lmao:

Although personally I love Bat 3, and that one was quality too!

I'll taste the finished apple pie, He hasn't baked a poor one yet .. has he Paul? ;) (Crook)

I never heard that one before.
I did remember seeing on the Hits out of Hell VHS tape that it said in the end credits: "Look out for my reunion project with Jim Steinman in 1992: Bat out of Hell (Part 2)."

I don't think there is a contractual obligation for length?
In the past I've just taken that on board as Meat and Jim quite often want to give us excess as well. Bad For Good needed a single to fit the extra songs on. Bat 2 was pushing near CD length limit, as was Bat 3 pretty much. Others have been quite long too. Normally at least 60-65 minutes.

A lot of artists get away with 10/11/12 songs and 40-45 minutes for Audio CDs in my buying experience.

This too many songs limit is an American thing right? Just make it a 2 cd so

I'd much prefer it as a proper single but if it wont be or cant be I'd prefer to hear it as a b-side than not at all. That's all!

I could be wrong ... but yes, I think Meat posted that they can only have 12 songs on a physical CD in the USA. I don't think there would be the same limit if they released the CD digitally for download on Itunes or Amazon :-)

What kind of stupid rule is that? Who comes up with that :shit: ? Does someone really get paid to sit in an office to come up with a rule like that. The world really has gone to Hell in a hand basket.

It is a very strange rule if true? Haha, makes no sense at all.

You seem to be missing the point. The song is contracted to the Bat musical. Meat can't release it in any way. If he could, then I'm sure he wouldn't be using it as a B-side.

... so we could have a CD of Steinman songs and a CD of the rest ...

I always thought of it something like this = brave other songs, crazy = steinman songs.

There is no such rule- I have plenty of CD's with over 12 tracks. I think what Meat was referring to is that Wal-Mart won't carry CD's with more than 12 tracks, for some reason- cost? So, if artists want Wal-Mart to carry their album, they either need to limit it to 12 tracks, or come out with a separate edition.

I do know that the royalty payment to songwriters is more once you put over 12 tracks on an album- no idea why.

Lol I don't think I've ever known of someone bitching about a future album having to many songs.... On another note, does anyone have any idea who is producing? If it isn't Jim then I hope it's rob cavallo.

I would imagine Paul Crook would be part of the production team at least? Thought Rob Cavallo's production was excellent on HCTB.

Thanks for the clarification .. and yes I have a feeling it has to do with cost.

That is bizarre.

Or maybe Paul Crook will be producing it himself ? I absolutely agree about Rob Cavallo's production on HCTB but
I also think that Paul did a great job with HIAHB :D

I think he did too .. and from what he said last year at Vegas, he seems to be working with Meat on this one. And I'd think they'd want Chris Lord Alge again too ;) I doubt Jim will be producing the whole album, although doubtless he'd have an input into his songs. But recording has changed so much now .. it's not as it was in the old studio days

I did a little more research to try to find the royalty rate reference and couldn't, but I know I read it someplace. What I did find is that record companies will often put a cap on royalties paid per record, based on the rate paid for 10 or 12 songs, for example (or whatever is agreed upon). In other words, if the going rate is 9.1 cents per song, (as it is currently, though it's more for longer songs), that puts a maximum of $1.09 paid on a 12-song album. If you put 14 songs on said album, each song only receives 7.8 cents, instead of 9.1. I believe this is what Meat means when he says the extra comes out of his pocket (which it does).

Now, this would be mitigated if Meat wrote or held the publishing on his own songs, since he would in effect be paying himself. Interestingly, though, a lower rate is paid to singer/songwriters, presumably because they make up the difference elsewhere.

I suspect the Wal-Mart limit is related to the royalty cap as well- I read that sometimes retailers pay the royalties as well.

As to digital downloads, it appears royalty rates are the same as for physical CD's.


I can think of a specific example (not here)of people bitching that an existing album has too many songs. :roll: :lol:

Certainly alot of back and forth over how many songs and who is writing. God help us if Meat ever gives us any more info on the album.
I`m just happy that
1 we have a new album coming out
2 its going to have at least 12 songs
3 Steinman is finally onboard and is providing six songs.

Having Steinman on board is not a guarantee of success but it certainly improves the odds. Meat is already hyping this in interviews and it really is a great story behind a new album. The most successful partnership in rock and roll together again.
Who can argue with that

Agreed. I'm feeling a lot of passive anti-Steinman-ism going on here, but I've got to be honest, when I think of Meat Loaf, every single song that pops into my head is - more or less - a Steinman song. And that's not to discredit Meat Loaf - I mean, how could it - it's just to say that Meat is a great performer/singer, and Jim is a great writer. Together, it's the perfect package, and that's the style of music I want to hear. It's what made they both successful, and what remade them both in the early nineties. So while I'm always interested to hear the other songs, I'm more interested in the Meat & Jim material. I mean, come on, Meat's most public identifiable songs are - arguably - Bat Out of Hell and Anything For Love - who wrote those, after all?

Or perhaps some active pro-Meat-ism? ;)

When I think of Meat every single song that pops into my head isn't a Steinman song .. probably because Meat has in the last 15 years recorded so many songs Steinman didn't write, and to some of us these are just as special, memorable, make just as much of a connection.

Of course it's great that Meat and Jim are working together again .. that collaboration is what made us, around the world, aware of a great composer and a great singer and performer .. each outstanding in their own right, enhanced by working together, and introduced us to something that grabbed the hearts of all of us, and that may never be matched or surpassed by any other collaboration again. But perhaps some of us feel that posts implying that it would be better to have 10 (or even 6 or 8 ) songs all composed by Steinman, rather than 14 which include others, or that other songwriters might be almost quaking in their boots to have a song following a Steinman one etc seems a little passively anti-anything-but-Meat-delivering-Steinman-ism ;)

When I think of Meat's recordings now, ones that immediately spring to my mind are Did I Say That?, Forever Young, Peace on Earth, Did You Ever Love Somebody?, Testify!, Alive, All of Me, Our Love and Our Souls and many others. I go to shows and still love to hear his Steinman penned classics .. they're great, great songs, and they come with wonderful memories. But on the occasions when I've been lucky enough to hear any of the others I've listed live, those too have created wonderful memories.

I've read so many posts about What Part of My Body Hurts the Most. I've heard a clip of Rob Evans singing it, read the lyrics. If I too may be honest .. I would take Did I Say That?, or a song of the same calibre, over it any time. That's a personal perspective .. and is not "anti-Steinman" .. it's simply I consider that song to be superb, an outstanding composition, and Meat's delivery of it perfection .. to me.

I'm just happy that
1. Meat is bringing out a new album
2. That he is clearly excited to be working on songs written by Jim again, and that according to Paul they will "blow your mind"
3. That it will have 14 songs
4. It will have new songs from Steinman and songs from other writers who also have a track record of composing songs for Meat which I love

It's worth pointing out that the Rob Evan version isn't finished. Apparently there's an as yet unheard second verse. Also Rob Evan certainly isn't Meat Loaf. In fact Rob Evan is far, far, far from being even in the same room as Meat Loaf.

No offence to Rob Evan but to me he sounded like an ok-ish musical singer. There are a 1000 of those on the London West End. Many of who sound more interesting to me. It's why I often can't get too excited about performances on X Factor or the Voice. If they don't sing it with the right passion / connection to the audience it doesn't even matter if their voice is amazing to me.

Exactly. I think bland is probably the right word.

Indeed .. However, as others have judged the song on what is available as one they want Meat to record , it seems fair that I can say on the same evidence that I'm not that in that camp. And I was judging not just on the performance, but the music and the lyrics, neither of which engaged me greatly. My perspective.

I am not saying, and I don't think I have ever seen anyone here say, that Steinman hasn't got a track record of composing brilliant songs. No-one is denying his genius. However, imo others have written superb songs which Meat has recorded, have written superb songs which he hasn't. I may be alone in this view, but I don't think so. When Meat records an album it does not have to contain songs only composed by Steinman for me to look forward to it, nor for me to love it. I do not think I am alone in that either. For those to whom only a Steinman song will do, I am delighted for them that there will be 6 such on the next album. However, some of us love all Meat's work, and will look forward with as much excitement to hear ALL the songs as they will to their six :) Just as Meat will pour his soul into every track with equal commitment and passion. There will also be those who have not followed Meat from the start, who are younger, to whom perhaps his more recent work strikes a much closer chord.

That isn't anti-Steinman, none of it .. it's simply pro-Meat

I just listened to the song "what part of my body hurts the most", heard it for the first time. BIG LIKE!! Imagine if Meat sings it, adding some better and larger backing vocals and tune it up a slightly more bombastic, it would be brilliant!!!

As far as I'm concerned, if this will be the quality of the whole Brave and Crazy album, Let's put 20 songs on it! :D:D

Which other songs will have a chance to get on Brave and Crazy?

Hmm, if it is pro-Meat-ism, then it's coming across as being to the detriment of Jim Steinman's contribution. I'm no Steinman super-fan, but I'd argue that if you walked into a bar and asked someone to name five Meat Loaf songs, four of them would've been written by Jim. It definitely wouldn't include Peace on Earth, Did You Ever Love Somebody, and All of Me (as good as those songs are).

Good comments. However the feeling I`ve noticed very little excitement about Steinman`s involvement on the record and that has probably alot to do with his lack of input into any of Meat`s past projects.
Meat has always wanted Jim to be involved and we can go on as much as we want about how great the last non Jim albums have been that Meat has made. A lot of very fair comments there for sure.
However, when Meat himself is clearly very happy and excited to have Jim involved on his next record, his fans should be too.
I definitely would not be surprised to see in the end it being a full Steinman composed album, as we started out with just two songs now we`re up to six. I remember how BAT 2 was finished and Jim add OBJECTS cause he said he wasn`t finished.
This is a pro Meat board and Meat is working with who he wants. Steinman.
In all the interviews he`s given so far that`s the only name I`ve heard.
With all respect to the other writers who will end up on the album

Braver Than We Are has been confirmed. Knowing the speed at which Jim works, it's highly unlikely he'll have written five brand new songs especially for this album.

From the aborted Batman musical there is:
Not Allowed To Love

YouTube Video

Still The Children

YouTube Video

I Need All The Love I Can Get

YouTube Video

Wonderful Toys

YouTube Video

Graveyard Shift

YouTube Video

There's also the songs from the Confidence Man musical, Tanz Der Vampire, Rhinegold and all the other musicals Jim wrote in the 60's and 70's. Whether some of that material is any good is open to debate.

And there is the part of Only When I Feel that isn't Break It.

YouTube Video

I have nothing against Steinman, he has written wonderful songs in the rather distant past, but I have grown very fond of what Meat has brought to the table with his last 2 records. I like the new fresh material, versus old material that has probably been lying around for 15 years.

I look forward to a new Meat album because I know he will produce something that I will like, but I'm honestly looking more forward to the contributions from the likes of Rick Brantley and James Michael

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Graveyard Shift would be awesome.
Would love for Angels Arise to be attached though. The lyric "Looks like it's gonna be a dark one tonight." is just superb.

It has turned out a lot of songs Meat recorded for those so called fresh albums ended up being covers themselves which I was very surprised at.

In that light those Steinman songs lying around for 15 years will also be new for 98% of the listeners anyway.

I agree with all your comments and for me the weird thing is that most of the non Jim songs I like from Meat are the ones where I think the writers have tried to emulate his style (CHSIB / DIST / What about Love? / BAAB / Alive / ILFYATTT). I can appreciate many won't agree with that likeliness or the fact that trying to emulate his style is wrong and doomed to failure. To me it got to the stage where I prefer the non Jim songs on Bat 3 than the Jim songs simply because I thought the production and instrumentation choices were just not right for his songs (turning songs into duets, lack of piano based driving force and a massive lack of dynamic contrasts -even Brian May's guitar riffs couldn't save that which on paper I would never thought would have been possible).

So indeed "non Jim Meat" songs can definitely appeal to me! ;)

Yes Mad, Mad World and California Dreamin' were indeed remakes of hit songs, but the rest of the albums were fresh, and the other songs never really got past the demo stage, so those don't really count as covers. :roll: Songs are recorded as examples for artist all the time, doesn't mean it isn't fresh material. 1/12 of the songs from the last 2 albums were "covers." seems like a pretty good ratio to me.

Bring on Brave and Crazy :lol:

But those of us on this board are not just anyone in a bar are we? Those who have said they are looking forward to all the songs, who know and are looking forward to the songs from other writers, wouldn't necessarily identify 4 out of 5 as being written by Steinman (leaving aside the fact that those random people in the bar would probably not know who had written the songs, which at least we do, and give Jim credit).

I haven't seen any suggestions people aren't happy. I was responding to a comment about "a lot of passive anti-Steinman-ism" .. and I do not see that equal pleasure that Meat is recording, or that he will have songs from other excellent writers is "anti-Steinman", either active or passive.

Personally I would be surprised. I am also looking froward to the songs from the other writers, I hope we will get 14 tracks. and were we to get 14 Steinman tracks I doubt I'd see the album early next year frankly .. and that would disappoint me

Actually I have heard him refer to other names .. but be that as it may, for I'm not going to try and track down in which interview that was, of course Meat is recording songs from writers he wants to work with .. Steinman of course, and that must delight him .. but also those others he has selected.

It's not obligatory to want only Steinman compositions on a new Meat album. I have said more than once I am delighted for Meat, and for those who seem to want only Steinman songs that they are getting more than was first anticipated. I will also say again it is NOT "anti-Steinman" to be looking forward to the songs from other respected writers. I have paid full respect to Steinman in my replies here .. principally because he deserves it, and also because Meat expects that of his fans. But I like the work of other writers as well. That is MY taste, and not anti anyone, not disrespectful of anyone's genius, and simply because I am a fan of Meat's work, across the board.

Most of the songs on Hang Cool were already released before Meat sang them. If you have no issue with this then you should have no issue with him singing a couple of Steinman songs that have 'probably been lying around for 15 years.'

Meat has said that Jim has written some new material, certainly lyrics.

But I strongly agree with your second paragraph; not to take anything away from Steinman's work, that there is something new and different in the work of Brantley and Michael that really appeal to me, and I struggle to see why this should be construed by anyone as some veiled criticism of Steinman. It's not. It's simply an appreciation of the work of other gifted songwriters.

My original comment, which you replied to, was regarding Meat's songs that the general music-listening public would recognise, hence my further reply. But I'm more than happy to take your word for the rest Caryl :-)

Edit: though as for the latter half of your comment to Mark S above, I think you should review the tone of this thread if you're still in the dark about why some might find the tone kind of anti-Steinman.

Again, demos, don't count as releases. A few of the songs had iTunes EP releases in the United States, but not an actual physical release, but the rest of the world had likely never heard of them, actually I venture to say most in the US had never heard the demos until Meat named the songs that he was going to sing. So, by AndrewG's own logic, this would still be fresh material :roll:

And, if you had been assed to read my original post, I have no issue with Steinman material, I just prefer songs that aren't over 15 years old, which the vast majority of Steinman material is likely to be, sans a few new lines.

Would it make a difference if it was 15 year old material that you'd never heard before? Because you what we call 15 year old material we've never heard before? New material. :-P

Surely that is exactly the same for Steinman's mostly unheard demos/songs?

I don't understand where that really comes from but each to their own. I could have heard Bat out of Hell today for the first time (sure with a more up to date say Rob Cavallo style production) and still thought it was the best song I've ever heard. In my opinion Steinman's songs are pretty much timeless, I'm sure they will last 100-200 years at least if not beyond. Most of his songs are like Mozart pieces, still impressive after time passes. When you start mentioning things like "cell" (mobile) and "Red Bull" in the lyrics that timelessness is somewhat lost in my opinion regardless what you achieve with production and instrumentation. Also the use of certain words kind of takes away from that timelessness feeling I always think. (Ass / the F word) etc.

That is part of my problem, most Steiman songs, which the exception of the major hits (BOH, AFL, Total Eclipse) aren't really all that timeless, most of the ones I have heard sound quite stale. Now I have heard that he is supposedly updating lyrics so we will have to see if that improves stuff at all. Songs have to evolve somewhat, and use the speech of the time in order to be somewhat relevant to a new and younger audience.

Again, 15 year old material is going to sound like 15 year old material unless the lyrics are updated. Its usually pretty easy to hear a song and say that it wasn't written recently. And much of the Steinman stuff has been demoed or covered by someone along the way, so I'm guessing most of this stuff is coming from a box covered in dust in the back corner of a dank basement, and it is likely going to read that way.

A. We don't know that; it's complete speculation.

B. Actually, no, that's absolute twoddle. I'd give you a 'if you listen to the production you might be able to tell it's from 15 years ago', but unless Steinman's started dropping in references to shell suits and bum-bags I don't buy for one minute that you'd be able to date a song from the lyrics alone. Maybe you should write to him and suggest he drops in a few 'iPads' and 'twerks' so his songs'll have a more contemporary edge :roll:

As has been previously mentioned in this thread, there have been three 'Meat Loaf' albums in recent years: CHSIB, Hang Cool and Hand Basket. Those who like their Meat 'Steinman free' have been well satiated. Those who prefer their Meat with a big helping of Steinman have had to wait a lot longer.

When Hang Cool arrived on the scene, those who didn't like Meat's current direction were basically told (repeatedly) to either like the new sound, put up with it or ~~~~ off. Now Meat is doing some stuff with Steinman again, I suggest those who gave the above advice, heed their own words. :twisted:

Doubt it

What part of my iPad twerks the most?

A. Everything that you are doing is also speculation, so welcome to the club sunshine:roll:

B. Let's take just for example "Frying Pan" one chorus and you can tell the song was written pre 1990 because no one has used the phrase "Out of the frying pan, and into the fire" since, well quite frankly I can't remember the last time anyone said it. It isn't hard to date a song based on production and lyrics, not an exact science, but ballpark isn't that hard, so your entire post was "absolute twoddle" or perhaps poppycock, hey there's another word that hasn't been used relevantly in 20 years.

On a complete side note, since we are going to be rehashing old material, I would love to see Prize Fight Lover get an official release as part of "Brave and Crazy" excellent song

I just read through the entire thread. If you are referring to my comment to Mark "I struggle to see why this should be construed by anyone as some veiled criticism of Steinman." .. As far as discussion on news of the album is concerned, up until you posted you felt there was some passive anti-Steinman-ism, leaving aside discussions on inclusion/exclusion of Body, numbers of songs and restrictions in the USA, and album title, there was one comment that expressed some disappointment that there would be less from other writers, 4 that were elated to find 6 Steinman songs would be on it (including some hopes for more), and one welcoming tracks written by Steinman and others. I don't see anything pervasively anti-Steinman there.

If on the other hand you are referring to my saying in my later reply to Mark:

I would refute that anything in that is in any way "anti" in word or tone. To like the work of other writers is not "anti" Steinman .. and I really do not believe he would see it that way; in fact I'd be disappointed if he did. Nor is it "anti" to look forward to hearing Meat perform their songs.

Actually that's a bad example as that idiom has existed since 1490. That's longer than the USA. But sure I appreciate you are saying you don't tend to hear classic lyrics based on old sayings/clichés etc such as those in Steinman's lyrics in a lot of music almost at all anymore. One has to wonder though if that makes his music more or less timeless. In my opinion it's absolutely the former as I simply cannot imagine me logging on online in 40 years time and debating Miley Cyrus' We can't stop and Justin Bieber's Baby Baby Ooh and talking to some fellow geriatrics "hey remember this classic? It always reminds me of..." etc.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jumping..._into_the_fire

Excellent example, the point being that no one who speaks normally uses that phrase in 2013. Yes, that like most phrases are old, but when it comes to being used in standard language and dare I say songs, it hasn't been done in a mainstream song since Frying Pan. It dates the bloody material.