[The Flying Mouse]

Originally Posted by Skybird14

I no longer get the feeling that we are at the stage where we were a couple of weeks ago where there was a definate air of argumentativeness amongst members.

There have been many many disagreements on this forum over the years, it's nothing new or recent.
It ebbs and flows with whatever is going on in Meat's career at the time.

Originally Posted by Skybird14

We're not all going to have the same opinion and it would be a pretty boring world if we did as time goes on.

That it would be a boring world is one of the phrases i've heard over and over through the years. The problem is that nobody seems to want a boring world, and a world where people disagree leads to threads like these (we've had a fair few in our time).

Originally Posted by Skybird14

but I feel that some people are percieving their opinions to be superior or perhaps that their opinion is the truth and those that don't agree are negative/blinded by love/insane and these are all things that have been thrown into discussions in recent months. I think that yes, people are entitled to have their opinion but when expressing it they ought to consider other people, their feelings and the fact that there are going to be some that won't share the same opinion. It doesn't mean that the opinion is less of a valid one.

Exactly
Opinions are, by their very nature, are held by people who believe they are right.
Has anybody ever met anybody who believes their opinion is wrong?
The problem is that a lot of people can be too rigid in their opinion, that they can't except how much pleasure somebody gets from a performance, or how somebody can see a flaw in something perfect.

Too often it's about proving other people wrong and shouting them down rather than posting what they believe.

THAT is a problem.

Originally Posted by Skybird14

He is in a unique position in that it's him we are talking about

A very important point, and one I want to come back to when i'm trying to put my own thoughts down.

Originally Posted by stretch37

A few weeks ago, several of us got really upset and went somewhere else because of this (well, most of us stayed here, but temporarily posted elsewhere).

Let's be honest here.
A few people left here because someone posted (in all respect and honesty) something Meat took offence too. Meat over reacted at the time (IMHO) and left the forum.

Originally Posted by stretch37

I actually had my account cancelled, and about a week or two later, really began to miss the diversity this place has to offer.

And to clarify this point for the record, so there is no misunderstanding, it was you who requested your account be deleted.

As for diversity, I thought that was the problem you had with this forum.

Originally Posted by stretch37

Those of us who stood up for Meat's feelings of upsetness were told we were in the wrong and "shushed"....As well, those who felt Meat was in the wrong for being upset were "shushed". Generally by threads being closed. This has been the solution for years and has not worked. I agree its definitely time for something new.

Threads were locked because people were getting too hot under the collar by "defending Meat" (who, as you can see for yourself) is not a person who needs much protection.

Case in point, the discussion that opened up about the youtube vid.
How the hell "evil trimphing", the KKK, and 9/11 all come up in a discussion about a singers career is beyond me.

Threads are locked because they have nothing new to offer but a continuing round of arguments that will settle nothing and encourage bad feeling on the forum.

As for something new, I thought that's what you are doing with your forum.
We're something old, and it seems that people still want to hang out here.

Originally Posted by stretch37

The "new" thing has to be that, as part of the fan club rules, all comments must be respectful of Meat Loaf, and anyone who is not respectful is the one that should be individually "shushed", and, if they do not comply, should be banned.

We have a rule here concerning mutual respect, and that applies to Meat as much as anyone else.
If we feel that somebody has made a comment made out of a mean spirit rather than an honest critical remark, 9/10 times they are deleted, and often we will contact the poster. If the remark is offensive enough an infraction is issued.
None of this is mentioned on the forum. Just because you don't see things happen, doesn't mean that all is quiet behind the scenes.

Originally Posted by stretch37

"Respecting Meat & The NLE" should be regarded as:
Talking as if your in the same room as Meat Or A Band Member

Agreed.

Originally Posted by stretch37

Personal Opinion such as "i do not like this" is fine

Agreed, but not everybody is always happy to let somebody say that and let it go.

Originally Posted by stretch37

Personal opinion such as "this performance is crap" is strictly forbidden

See the rule concerning posting criticism in a respectful manner.

Originally Posted by stretch37

"Critique of Meat Loaf as a person strictly forbidden (and unwelcome)

But what consitutes being critical of Meat as a person?
Meat over reacts sometimes when he doesn't like things that are said.

Is that a fact or am I being unjustly critical?

Originally Posted by stretch37

Mods take those lovely "hidden nuggets" of criticism as actual criticism, rather than letting them slip under the rug?

As i've already said, we make every effort to delete any messages that we perceve to be posted with a hurtful intent rather than an honest one.

To do any better we are going to have to ask people to donate crystal balls

Originally Posted by stretch37

There is an undercurrent of negativity that resides here.

Is that you missed about us?

Originally Posted by stretch37

The "True Fans"
-Fans who go out of their way to treat Meat respectfully and act like a "fan" would towards an artist he/she adores.
-Generally are agreeable to Meat's ideas and form their thoughts towards him respectfully even if the thought is in disagreeance
-Feel bullied by "Honest Fans"

I know that the term "True Fan" offends a lot of people because it implies that you are not a fan of Meat if you are not 100% positive about him.

Hell, I find it offensive myself and I believe I fit (if I must be put into a box) into that category.
Apart from being bullied that is.

Originally Posted by stretch37

The "Honest Fans"
-Fans who feel that freedom of speech is the utmost important feature of these forums.
-Will speak their mind and word things how they feel in the moment without worry about how it will effect Meat.
-Tend to upset Meat at times, but also encourage some good conversation and laughter at other times
-Feel bullied by the "True Fans"

Without freedom of speech (posted in a respectful way) there is not much point of a forum.
And, as well documented in the past, it would be "boring".

Perhaps some of the things that are posted in a way it is perceived "not to care about Meats feelings" are actually posted with no thought that Meat will read the post? Therefore huting Meats feelings is not the posters intention?


I have no doubt whatsoever that both these "groups" feel dominated and bullied by each other.

Originally Posted by stretch37

Generally most people on here fit into those two categories, whether they have always been a part of one or the other is irrelevant.

But sometimes interesting.

I've seen a couple of people who would fit into the "True Fan" box be turned to the dark side of the "Honest Fan" because of the pressure put on people not to say anything slightly negative. People get sick of being told what to think.

I've never seen a "Honest Fan" join the ranks of the "True Fans".

Originally Posted by stretch37

But I also respect those who speak their mind. Sometimes honesty is extremely refreshing.

Somebody posted an honest comment and you left the forum

Originally Posted by stretch37

But in the end, we have now collectively upset Meat.

I still maintain that Meat has a kneejerk reaction when he thinks that someone is having a go at him, and when he calms down it's soon forgotton.
No different than a hell of a lot of other people on the planet.

Originally Posted by stretch37

Blame cannot be placed in any one place.

Although i've seen it happen on a grand scale.
Even after the last thread was locked there were snide remarks about "we know why Meat has left the forum".

And for the record, Meat has been back and posted since the last round of the usual.

Originally Posted by stretch37

And as a group, it is our responsibility to right the wrong we have done.

Sorry, but it's impossible for me to read this sentance and not imagine the suggestion of a human sacrifice following close behind.

Meat is over it.

Originally Posted by stretch37

But first, we need to decide how we can assure that this will NEVER happen again.

I disagree.
We need to decide how to deal with it better next time, because it's going to happen again as long as Meat reads this forum and people are speaking their minds.

Originally Posted by stretch37

First step in my mind is that this forum have a new set of rules. This fan forum is *not* just any fan forum. It is one in which the artists visit and regularly participate, and it has shown over the years that rules that rules that would normally apply to just *any* fan club do not suffice here.

Thoughts ?

You have a forum where you can make up as many rules and regulations as you want.

We've spend the last 10 years or so doing the whole trial and error thing and this is where we are.

It's not perfect, but we must be doing something right because people keep coming back, including Meat.

My main thought on that is why did Meat come and find us?
I cannot believe that he looked up his own fans so he could come and tell us what to think.
He might not always like what he reads, but what he gets here are honest (as much as we able to ensure their genuine nature) opinions and feedback.


Right, that's me done until i've at the very least had a cup of tea