[evil nickname]

Some responses:

Originally Posted by PanicLord

I find it astounding that anyone could call this complex or a grey area.

Changing copyright law is complex because of all kinds of international treaties and the like. National legislators cannot simply say, "hey, this Intelectual Property-law needs updating. Let's do it."

Also, the reality of what's going on with people downloading versus the philosphical way you think it ought to be and how to come to a new way of doing things in a way that benefits all parties: that's not going to be easy. At all.

Originally Posted by PanicLord

So, it is illegal, not "illegal".

Remember, in The Netherlands it's legal to copy copyrighted works for private practice, study and use. So in my case, there is no "illegal downloading".

************

Originally Posted by The Flying Mouse

He claimed downloading was good for the artist, because their music is heard by someone who might not go out and buy an album, and who might buy the next.

He has a point there. It happened to me. Downloaded something to sample, spend a lot of money later on because I liked it a lot.

Originally Posted by The Flying Mouse

I answered that if you want an idea of what an artist is like you can..........
Listen to their music vida (available on youtube)

Which quite often happens to be uploaded by fans without the artists' permission, made by crappy camera-phones, etc. etc. etc.

Originally Posted by The Flying Mouse

Ask friends what the artist is like.
Read reviews online and in magazines.

"That fat bloke can't sing and his music is shite."

Originally Posted by The Flying Mouse

Buy a compilation album (giving a broad spectrum of the artists work).

They weren't going to spend money on an artist to find out what he's like, remember?

Originally Posted by The Flying Mouse

Buy a second hand copy of one of their albums on ebay (set you back, what? £2 tops).

None of which will go back to the artist, so you might as well download it.

Originally Posted by The Flying Mouse

Also, if someone has ripped off an artist for their complete works, it's not very likely that they are going to decide to legitimatly buy the album next time. If they like it, they'll download it for free again.

True. Still, they might not buy the music, but they might go to concerts, buy shirts, whatever.

Originally Posted by The Flying Mouse

There is no need to dowload music to sample a taste of an artists work.
There are enough ways to see if an artist is for you without breaking the law.

Perhaps there is no need, but it is quite a lot easier and faster that going on eBay, buying an album and waiting for it to arive. Or going to a shop to pick up a cheap compilation.

Also, you could argue that the phyiscal formats are on their way out, especially for the younger people—O, god, I'm just 32 and look at what I just wrote—and that mp3s are easier. How many people carry around a discman and a stack of CDs nowadays? Conveniance is king.

Yes, I know: iTunes. Spotify, what have you. Why still download illegally? I'll keep it at this: I cannot use iTunes on Linux, and Spotify is far from complete, and silly geographical restrictions when the internet is this global network. There's a lot of room for improvement in that department. As long as it's still easier to just torrent whatever you want, people will keep doing that.

Originally Posted by The Flying Mouse

People should vote with their feet.
If they like an artists work they should buy the artists work because then the revenue creates a higher possibility of more work from this artist in the future.
An artist that doesn't sell records is not likely to make another.

Believe me, I'm all for artist making money with their art. I still buy a lot of CDs and LPs, perferably straight from the artist. Maybe because I can remember the time before the internet, when home taping was still killing the music industry.

But: the internet/filesharing has changed the game. The cat's out of the bag, and it's never going back in. I believe that instead of lamenting the change, artist and the industry should embrace it, and develop new ways of generating revenue. Perhaps by giving away their music for free if they choose to.

As in all evolution, you have to adapt to the changing circumstances, or you're facing extinction. That might sound harsh, but you don't hear the neanderthals complaining about that now, do you?

I'll keep it at this for now, cause I have six people coming over for dinner in an hour and a half.