My final thoughts on this topic.
More than ever, on this board, we've been able to continue a heated argument/discussion with eachother and Meat Loaf. And boy did we. But did it bring us something new?
For starters we have seen what the majority of this place always knew. There are people who will defend Meat Loaf unconditionately, we have people who will argue Meat loaf unconditionately, we have people that are in the middle. So there nothing much changed. Although I've seen some people move a bit more to the middle and some people who moved a little away from the middle. At least that's been a small change.
Then we have Meat Loaf himself. We all know that Meat can get angry/upset. It isn't the first time he did so. It's a contrast to the Meat Loaf we know from M&G, concerts and TV. That is a caring, suporting man with a big Heart. And to me both representations show the real Meat Loaf.
People who know me personally know that I'm carring and loving but like so many others I can get pretty mad or pissed off. It's a human thing. So denying Meat has two sides also is b*llshit. He has and we've seen it.
Which brings us to this topic. Meat's last outburst. Although I don't mind an outburst by any of us (Meat included) I thought this was exceptional. In the very first post Meat exploded like never before and said things that shocked a huge deal of people over here. Me included.
The subject of this topic consists two things. The endorsement and the endless discussion on Meat's vocal quality. And although a big part of the discussion mentioned politics it seemed to me Meat's outburst was for a larger part on the voice thing. A topic that (imo) wasn't rude but maybe a bit too confronting (especially for Meat Loaf at the time).
Being a fan of someone who makes a living out of singing I don't think it's that odd we discuss such matters. Question is, are we too negative on Meat Loaf's performances? Some of you -who still read my posts- will say YES! Absolutely! and others will disagree. I had a small discussion with R. in this thread and he tried to explain Meat's post by saying we've been too negative for too long (7 years, R. said). From my stand of view I disagree, as I told R.
I think this place has a huge diverse fanbase and I've seen a load of people who are only positive about anything Meat Loaf does. Including his voice. On the other hand I see people who disagre and find that Meat some times performe a lot better than other times. Or think Meat performance was worse than they are used to. And they also have their voices heard.
R. used key words to show how negative some of the people here have been. Then again I can make a same statement with all the loving remarks. Personally I think it's very balanced. So there is a next question.
As this is a fanboard, aren't we obligied to the artist to outshine the positive and keep the negative to a maximum low?
A fair question that will also get different answers and views. But one of which Meat's opinion is very clear. He stated it dozens of times that he doesn't feel the love here that a fanboard should give. Personally I dismissed this by saying that Meat focusses on the negative posts and hardly answers the positive ones. But isn't that the easy way out? Shouldn't this, of any place, be a safe haven for Meat? and is it?
Well I can answer that last question easily. No this isn't a safe haven. There are too many people who care for their honest opinion instead of a suportive opinion. Me included. That doesn't mean that I am right. But it also doesn't mean that I am wrong either, For me it means the boundries are too gray.
If R. wants this to be Meat's safe haven he can change the house rules. It's R.'s place and we are guests but at the moment the house rules allow a fair discussion which can lead to critical remarks towards the artist. Within the rules of MLUKFC the people who have their voices heard in both positive and critical ways, are being allowed to do so. And Meat Loaf knows he can expect two views. Again I'm not saying what is the best solution but according to current house rules this is what to be expected if a fan base is so diverse.
BTW I understand how difficult this must be for R. I don't think he wants to have an addoration board and I guess he just hopes that the fans who come here are more suportive to Meat -the singer, actor and person- as they are on some occasions. R. situation is tough because either way he will lose the charactirzation of this forum. To be honest I think it's impossible to achieve a safe haven if you allow free speech. And the fans here are very vocal so I doubt this board will ease down on Meat Loaf the way some of the people here hope for. It's the bitter reality.
All this said, do I understand Meat Loaf's outbursts? YES. Although, as I stated somewhere in this thopic before, I would come here with a different view and thought as Meat Loaf does. But still I understand his emotions very well. Will it change? Unless R. changes the rules, NO. And we all know in our Hearts it won't.
That brings me close to my conclusion of this very long post: Meat's latest outburst and the apologies.
I think that Meat's words to his fans here are way out of line. I understand anger but this was written in an act of rage. That is how I see it. And Meat managed to hurt some of his loyal fans with those words. Meat crossed a border to a fair amount of people. And we've seen that in some replies by people, including mods, who were absolutely shocked by the hatred in those words.
But I said that these words were likely to be written in an act of rage. And people, any people lose sense of reality during a moment like that. I was more bothered by the excuse Meat Loaf offered first. It was all an act to filter out the real fans from the phoneys. I never bought that story. And many here also didn't.
Of course Meat hasn't been back but wrote a great excuse message on his FB page. It seems to me that this was a well meant excuse and he truely feels bad about the harsh things he said. I believe that excuse and I accept that excuse. And I even think Meat apologized for what he said on here.
Unfortunately Meat never posted his apologie here. I really think it would have meant a lot for some people who were shocked. It's guessing why Meat hasn't done so and I hope he will for at least the M&G and 97% remark. However with the long and honest excuse on FB I can live. So for me the matter is over.
Which results in my view on this topic. People know me to be the first to act in an argument and say my beliefs. I don't back down and I'm not the person to be easily intimidated by others. I stand by what I say.
Well in this topic, even I think all is said. Although I still see good argument, my feeling is the topic is dragging now and we come up with subjects to keep it going. My personal view is that we can leave it as it is. Matters will never be resolved in the way all parties hope and basically some of us here are just waiting if Meat Loaf is going to say something more about it. Deep in ourselves we all know that won't happen. Even if Meat is thinking about making an apologie here, he will do so in a new topic. So for me the debate topic is done. And for once I won't hold it again anyone if this gets locked. Which, coming from me, really says a lot.
In the end I have seen heated, well argumented and less reasonable posts in here. And thanks to the moderators on this board we've seen it for a long time now. I respect that a lot.
So I just want to thank the people who moderated this hot flaming topic. Especially FlyingMouse who, in my opinion, did an incredible job on this thread. People had the oportunity to have their say and the topic (maybe dragging in the end) never got a real chance to derail.
Yest the subject was sensitive and confronting, but it felt honest. And FlyingMouse and co, thank you for giving us all a chance to participate in that. I appreciate the oportunity to speak my mind a lot.
To R. I really hope you find a middle way to make this the board you invisioned. It won't be easy (if not impossible) to do so. But I thank you for giving Meat and us, the other guests a house where we can come together.
I will continue this board outside this topic. We have a new CD a new concert tour and a US release of the current DVD coming out. Meat is having surgery. So there is a lot to talk about folks
