The April M&G Promise Will It Be Met?

[CarylB]

In April Meat asked our help and made a promise:

Need all in the uk and northern Ireland to go and find and buy a least 5 singles. You will all have meet and greets at the shows in your area. I will buy them back from you then give you one back signed for free! please we need you help. What city are you in where there are no singles!! please write back

.... need you to find singles order on line what ever I've got a problem! and from the e-mails you can see this! need you to find and buy, yes backstge passes meet and greet , will buy them back from you sign to you and give one back. it's very simple, we will do this!!

This was an implicit contract with us, and the fact that most said they would not expect to get their money back but were happy to help and would look forward to meeting Meat backstage and getting a copy signed does not alter that. Nor does the fact that many said they would have happily gone out and bought 5 copies without the promise of a M&G alter it. A promise is a promise. An implicit contract is just that.

When the M&Gs for the UK were announced, most of those who had done as Meat asked would have assumed this was his way of acknowledging that promise as best he could. A reasonable assumption imo, and one that many posts on this forum indicated was the case. At no time did anyone say that this was not the case.

I'm sure all of us understood why M&Gs and concerts were rescheduled when Meat was ill. All of us were worried, and later rejoiced when he recovered. He has said publicly that he is better than ever, he is fine now.

So, the question on the table is not whether the UK M&Gs announced were to meet the promise or not. The question is what will be done to meet it?

I adore Meat and have always believed him to be a gracious and an honourable man. I do not want that to change.The disappointment people feel is because they love and respect Meat and are bewildered by this. Again I quote tink's eloquent post which sums up the crux of this:

IMO, the \"fuss\" is about a beloved man who came on board and promised a greet if people would help him out in his time of need and now has, with no indication to why, reneged on that promise. IMO, the \"fuss\" is not about the fact that there won't be greets as much as the fact that the beloved man has disappointed some by breaking a promise. IMO, the \"fuss\" is about a beloved man who came on board and said that he was feeling better than ever and still some continue to give as an assumed reasoning behind the cancellations his health issues.

He is beloved, and those who entered into this contract are amongst his most loyal and devoted fans, and because he is beloved it hurts that nothing appears to be forthcoming.

This discussion started on another thread which because it was deemed off topic was moved to Fight Club. To see earlier posts go to:
http://www.mlukfc.com/forums/showthr...er=asc&start=0

[original sin]

I have already said my piece on this and am very frustrated that we have been placed in the position of setting up a seperate thread.
I would strongly urge anyone visiting these thread to look at both the related discussions now in Fight Club and Site Feed back. Also the original "announcement part has been placed in the M&G forum, as this forum has now been locked for some time, you would not necessarily be expecting new posts there.
I'l be darned if I'm going to repeat my self, as i've already covered everything - So I'm just copying over.

I have to say I am extremely disappointed, not only with this announcement but by the way it has been made.
When CHSIB was released in the UK it was a total fiasco, no supplies in stores, little information and extremely limited airplay.
Meat chose to use this public forum to put out a request for help. He went on to qualify that request with a promise of Meet and Greets for fans that could help, as Caryl has quoted above.
Many, many, people did what he asked and some more. These people would have done the same even with out his offer, but the fact is that he did make the offer.
Soon after there was a M&G in Holland which was part of this although the plea had been for UK help – there were assurances that this was the first and there would be more to follow.
As the UK leg approached dates were released for M&G’s, although I was able to secure a place myself I was still in a way disappointed that no reference or preference was given in this allocation to people who had assisted as requested. Indeed there were many who had not only brought excess copies of CHSIB but were actively promoting airplay with radio stations etc. Some of these people could not even apply for a M&G because the concerts they had tickets for were not listed. I felt they had been let down.
The UK leg then commenced, and although Meat was giving his all, we all know what followed.
The cancellations during this period are more than understandable and all of us have been sending him our sincere best wishes during this.
However, from the information we have been given, a diagnosis was made and a surgical procedure carried out to rectify matters. We saw Meat come back better than ever, he said post-op that he was better than he had been in months and from the concerts I went to he looked it!
Granted he had a sore throat as the December shows finished, as did Patti, and as did probably 85% of the UK population. I am not aware that anything has been released to indicate that this was anything more sinister than a winter cold.

Is someone here trying to suggest that there are health related matters that we are unaware of? If so let’s be up front and say it!

Yes I feel let down, and if anyone hasn’t got the common sense to see why then I’m very sorry, but there it is.

As this board has unfolded over the last few months, it has appeared that the way to get seen is to either insult the man or other fans and their views. I also think this is a sad state of affairs.

[Michael Marxen]

Caryl, are you married to a lawyer or what?

BTW, giving the fans an extra date for 11/17 is a much bigger deal (not only financialwise) than any M&G or other rewards.
We should not take everything word by word IMO.

Michael
In Cardiff with his soul tonight
In Manchester and Sheffield with his body later this week

[CarylB]

Caryl, are you married to a lawyer or what?

No, and interesting that you do not ask if I am a lawyer. Why should any knowledge or expertise I have be on the coat-tails of a husband?

But I digress. The fact is I recognise an implicit contract when I see one. I also recognise that some people who could ill-afford it, did something to help because they were offered something very precious in return.

It is indeed a wonderful and generous thing for Meat to put on the Wembley concert again. I still believe he is a wonderfully generous man. But that does not affect a promise that was made to people in return for their doing something. And I hope he has not forgotten that promise, because I have always believed in him.

[Mike Piercy]

CHSIB Michael,

In the same way Manchester EN Arena is bigger than Cologne Arena, offering to "replay" the Wembley concert is a monumental gesture of goodwill on Meat's part which most fans recognise.

Also I think this supposed "contract" is pretty unenforceable. Legal talk is only any good if you can take the action to support it.

Real disappointment has been expressed but a far greater gesture has been made, to all fans at some personal cost I should think and few other performers would have done it in the music business.

Mike

[original sin]

Originally Posted by Mike Piercy

CHSIB Michael,

In the same way Manchester EN Arena is bigger than Cologne Arena, offering to "replay" the Wembley concert is a monumental gesture of goodwill on Meat's part which most fans recognise.

Also I think this supposed "contract" is pretty unenforceable. Legal talk is only any good if you can take the action to support it.

Real disappointment has been expressed but a far greater gesture has been made, to all fans at some personal cost I should think and few other performers would have done it in the music business.

Mike

Nobody has said that the replaying of the Nov. 17th concert is anything but a generous and wonderful gesture, and one which proves him to be the man we thought he was. When he is able to make such a guesture on such a grand scale is not some response possible on a matter that is actual much smaler in scale.

BTW - who's thread hijacking now and going off topic - trying to get this one in Fight Club too?

[CarylB]

Actually Mike I think it probably would be enforceable, and that's not the point. I'm quite sure none of us would wish to go that far.

My point was that this was a very clear offer, and however wonderful the gift of another concert may be to those who attended the one at which Meat was taken ill, it does not meet a promise made to other people for something else, for example a sixteen year old perhaps who spent their pocket money because they believed they would have a chance to meet the man they admire and love so much.

I am not diminishing any of the wonderful things Meat does, merely drawing attention to something which I believe matters, is important, and asking what is happening. And as Sin has said, given the generosity of the rescheduled Wembley concert, (which I am sure ALL of us recognise)one would not expect a promise to be forgotten or ignored.

[meatwka]

wether or not it is a so called legal contract or wateva i think we should all just be glad that meat rearranged the cancelled gigs. He did not have to re schedule but he was good enough to give us a show so lets just be grateful.

[Mike Piercy]

Well said Meatwka.

To everyone who is upset about the cancellations of M&G's I'll point out again I've e-mailed Kevin in response to his cancellation message and asked for assurances and indicated that many fans are feeling unwanted and isolated.

I don't usually deal with him, I think the only reason he contactd me was because I sent him an e-mail via someone at his office indicating there was a message for him on our website. I'm hoping he'll respond to my latest submission after the weekend. Remember they are in Los Angeles in a different time zone. We'll then see if any explanation or news is forthcoming to Diane or me.

Rest assured you'll get to know when we do.

Mike

[CarylB]

As I've kept saying I'm grateful for everything Meat does, and if there's a reason for the cancellation like there was before Christmas everyone would understand. But in the absence of any information the question of what will happen is a very real one.

[heat]

I could perfectly understand not having M&G's if Meat WERE ill. But he's not. He's more than fully recovered if last night's show was anything to go by. He completely Rocked, and i mean ROCKED Cardiff for 2 and a half hours. He never stopped, and it seemed like he didn't even stop to draw breath. I was knackered, and i was only watching him. He seemed fully fit and healthy - he didn't look in the slightest bit tired or worse for wear. In fact, he looked better than i've seen him look in a long time.

Now my reasoning is simple - if he ia able to go out on stage and perform like that for two and a half hours straight, surely taking 20 mins to meet a few fans isn't going to have him breaking a sweat. After all, he did make a promise, and all i always though a gentleman's word was his bond.

[Vickip]

I've had a PM from Meat in which he said he wasn't well over Christmas, and the shows are his priority. So I'm sure everyone will understand about the M&Gs being cancelled, and want to wish him well.

Vicki

[CarylB]

I said before that I, like everyone, understood perfectly when the M&Gs were cancelled before Christmas because Meat was so poorly. If he's been ill over Christmas I'd be the first to say I'm relieved and glad he feels well enough to do the shows (and if last night's in Cardiff is anything to go by he's doing this in spades!!) and understand if he perhaps feels anxious about meeting groups of people in case he picks up an infection he can't fight off.

Given the rather special situation in the UK because of what we were asked to do in April, I think it's unfortunate that 10th Street didn't give an explanation .. because if they had there would have been no messages here except ones of understanding and good wishes as there were last year. I raised the specific issue of the promise because it seemed clear no-one from the fanclub was doing this, and the only information we had was from Meat saying he was fully recovered.

Meat is VERY beloved, and if he still has concerns about his fitness then so do we all, and none more than I.

[ChrisBelfast]

Whether your points are valid or not, I can't really see Meat changing his mind now and going ahead with Meet and Greets especially after reading everything on these forums. After all this, do you really think uve convinced him that he wants to see you? Theres now too many complications as well, e.g what about the Belfast people who bought all the singles orignally 2 M+Gs were set up for them so then everyone would have got a M+G except Belfast. Dublin as well, then another outcry would happen if Meats decided to go ahead with M+Gs January.I know its disapointing but be happy with what you've got.

[CarylB]

Chris, I was just asking what was happening. We now have an explanation for the cancellations. End of story.

[Dave]

Originally Posted by meatwka

wether or not it is a so called legal contract or wateva i think we should all just be glad that meat rearranged the cancelled gigs. He did not have to re schedule but he was good enough to give us a show so lets just be grateful.

Yes!!! Be grateful you are actually getting the shows you paid to see. In my case, I was promised a show, paid for my ticket in full, had Meat Loaf cancel, was told by the venue he would make it up in Spring, and then was told by Meat Loaf he had no intention of making up his cancellation. Be grateful you are actually getting a show unlike some of us who are not even fotunate enough to get to see him, much less meet him! Be joyful in your heart and have song on your tongue that you will get to enjoy the power that is a Meat Loaf show. You are indeed a very fortunate lot. There are thousands of disappointed Meat Loaf fans all over America who will not have the honor of seeing one of rock and roll's true living legends perform on stage due to the fact (for whatever reason) shows were not reschedualed over here. Further, what of the American fans who bought the said amount of the said single? HUMMM??? Again, I say be grateful and celebrate the fact that Meat Loaf will be on a stage in front of you. This is, afterall, a board to celebrate Meat Loaf not to be negative to him, at least that is what has been preached at me by other members of this board.

ROCK ON SEEING MEAT!!!

[Kathy]

Originally Posted by David M. Driskell

.... was told by the venue he would make it up in Spring, and then was told by Meat Loaf he had no intention of making up his cancellation.

Has this been absolutely definitely decided? Am I silly to be holding out a little bit of hope?
-Kathy

[Golden Girl]

Originally Posted by David M. Driskell

Be grateful you are actually getting a show unlike some of us who are not even fotunate enough to get to see him, much less meet him!

Y'all really are lucky just to be able to go and enjoy his spectacular voice and talent. I would give an arm and a leg to do that. I know that meeting him would be a really great experience for anybody, but y'all are really getting something here. I'll be quiet now, just the point of view of a jealous fan who hasn't and won't be seeing him.

[Ageing Bat]

I really can appreciate the disappointment felt by the few lucky ones to have been chosen for meet 'n' greets, having felt something similar following the 17th November concert at Wembley. I still find it difficult to put into words my absolute appreciation for Meat re-playing this date - what a very generous, kind, thoughtful thing to do. This re-run has been done for the majority, who believe me, are truly thankful.

We know nothing of the personal thoughts and feelings of Meat, but I suspect he's pretty tormented and cut up about recent events. Give the man a break, please!

He nearly gave his life to perform for the majority at the end of last year and still people appear dissatisfied, and take his withdrawl from meet 'n' greets as a personal affront. Please be a little more compassionate and understanding.

[Dave]

Originally Posted by Kathy

Has this been absolutely definitely decided? Am I silly to be holding out a little bit of hope?
-Kathy

You are never silly to hold out hope. Here is what Meat posted on this very forum:

Originally Posted by Fire Ball Posted on 15 Dec 2003 at 12:42 am

Igot tell you are all wrong , calm down didn;t know therre waas a makeup date, the told you there wrong!Q allways taking a break after australia. If it makes sense we will play more dates

I take that to mean he had no intention of making up a tour date for a sold out show in Columbus, Ohio. But, you might take it differently.

I do not have access to my home e-mail here at work, but will be glad to share with you the promise PromoWest made to the ticketholders for the Columbus show about Meat Loaf returing to make up the show in the spring.

ROCK ON BE GRATEFUL!!!

[R.]

Originally Posted by CarylB

We now have an explanation for the cancellations. End of story.

Exactly. Let it rest.

[original sin]

Originally Posted by R.

Exactly. Let it rest.

I am more than happy to let this rest now, but do forgive me for this post it is nothing to do with wanting the last word, the simple fact is I have just got back from work and have missed the developments of the day, which have somewhat provided what I felt I needed.

OK, we asked a question which I still think was valid and justified. Vicki has been able to provide an explanation, which has come from Meat. Not half baked suggestions from others who know just as much or as little as I do.

My last post in another thread summed up my feelings, I didn't understand why, and was actually just saying give me a reason and I'll be satisfied. Well now as diasappointed as I may still be I am satisfied.

This is the post i am talking about>>

I just don't see what the problems is now with holding a M&G any M&G, irrespective of his offer/promise.

Yes he's had a rough ride in 2003, but from the info we have been given that is behind him.
Yes he might have forgotten his words words here - but I don't think that should mean we don't ask the questions.
I'm not asking for him to run through Hyde Park butt naked. I am asking that he or anyone on his behalf acknowledge his actions and provide an explanation as to why this is no longer feasible.
Further more I think as this is billed as the last world tour which folks may mean the last chance to get a M&G in a concert setting, it is really questioning why M&G's in general are no longer feasible.
I don't need to hear assumptions - those I can come it with myself. I would like and be satisfied with a reasoned explanation.

I thank Meat for 25 + years of music which has kept me going through good times and bad. I also thought that he acknowledged that it is fans that have kept him "up there", which he showed by the generousity of rescheduling Wembley 17/11. Unless told otherwise I would think that M&G's are much lest trouble and cost than this gesture.

[Dave]

People!!! Stop being argumenative and hateful in my PM box please. I posted what I posted on this thread because I wanted to remind you that you were going to get to see Meat Loaf. Meet and greets are the least of my worries. Be grateful you are getting to see Meat Loaf and stop playing your silly semantic games with me. This is the year I will not get caught up in that trap. I have found it very easy to just dismiss others who try to tear me down rather than deal with the abuse and bitterness they throw in my direction. Please do not throw sand on my keyboard any more.

Thank you and have a nice day!!!

ROCK ON BE GRATEFUL!!!

[original sin]

eerrr David I do hope this is pure coincidence that this has followed my post.

[Dave]

Originally Posted by original sin

eerrr David I do hope this is pure coincidence that this has followed my post.

T'tly~!

ROCK ON ROCK STAR!!!