Another new album?

[Rage Against]

Originally Posted by wolfy35

PATRICK was a brilliant idea, Not only is PATRICK the central charactor in the storyline but the name PATRICK also has the effect of winding up some people who dont seem to like the name PATRICK.

Maybe we should start a poll on what Meat should call this new album

I suggest PATRICKs adventures in PATRICKland

hope nobody thinks I slipped the name in there on purpose

[Sarge]

Originally Posted by Pudding

HCTB 'story' sucks, unless you're a hardcore Meat Loaf fan

The trouble is that the idea with the story just does not work. I asked in another thread who saw Elvis in Vergas as it cannot be Patrick if you stick to the story. You have an album and you have a story - I regard them as two separate things that are independent from each other. When listening to the album the first couple of times, I was racking my brains how the hell the songs were related to the story, I could not find any relation, sorry.

Maybe it is also due to the fact that I listened to Brantley's original songs before - which I could enjoy without being told how they have to be interpreted. They took songs that already existed and wrapped the story around them. It slightly works on Peace On Earth but not on the rest of the album.

I am not saying that HCTB appears to be a random compilation of songs. That is not the case. The songs indeed have a connection to each other and it's exciting to listen to the whole album - but they don't tell the same thing as the short story which is absolutely superflous, in my opinion, and rather appears to be a marketing trick than the foundation of the album.

I suspect no one would have recognized the "concept" or the underlying story if Meat hadn't constantly talked about it.

An alleged concept album that requires to be explained is not a concept album. Listen to The Who's Tommy, for example. It's the songs that tell the story, they don't need someone to tell you what each song is actually all about and how the songs are connected to each other. Meat presses very good songs into a corset and actually restricts the freedom of the listener to explore the music by forcing the story on you.

Many of the songs on HCTB are covers or recordings of songs that had been written before Meat picked them for this album. The original songs were written and recorded before in a different context. Usually the concept is created before the songs are written, not vice versa.

I'm looking forward to a new album but I hope it won't be a "concept" album this time, unless it's a concept that really works. Good songs do not need such kind of crutches - they can walk on their own.

[Pudding]

Originally Posted by Sarge

I am not saying that HCTB appears to be a random compilation of songs.

That's exactly what they are. You could get any random dozen songs in the Top 40 now, put them in a certain order and cobble together some sort of convoluted storyline.

[suzieq]

I have a "what if" situation:

What if Meat never mentioned anything about the album being a concept album and never shared the concept/story? Do you think anyone would put two and two together on their own and say...you know, I think these songs tell a story?

I'm in the mindset that there are plenty of intelligent folks here and there have been some really good questions about songs, so it is very difficult for me to believe that no one in a days time, a weeks time, a months time etc, that would have asked ...is this HCTB an album that tells a story about something?

Meat provided that information up front, but it's not necessary to have the information to enjoy the album. So, if you are not "feeling" Patrick, ignore him.

[Pudding]

Originally Posted by suzieq

What if Meat never mentioned anything about the album being a concept album and never shared the concept/story? Do you think anyone would put two and two together on their own and say...you know, I think these songs tell a story?

No. I think you'd have to be taking some bizarre herbal medications to suddenly get the eureka moment of "f*ck me, these songs tell the story of a soldier called Patrick who's dying and his life is flashing forwards not backwards. And his grilfriend in his hometown is called Jenny, but it's a different Jenny than he knows. Plus this Jenny with each song has different hair and different clothes and different make-up"

Originally Posted by suzieq

I'm in the mindset that there are plenty of intelligent folks here ?

Yes there are and most don't believe in the story as a convincing story. It's gobbledygook at best.

[RSG]

Maybe all this discussion whether it is or not a concept album is just a stragety to get enough talk about the album to sell the record

I love the majority of this record. I do not get the story. Concept is clear on its own, but its not working when I listen to the record.

No offence to any body who sees this concept. No offence to everybody who worked real hard to give us an awesome Meat Loaf record. Just saying. This should be a topic on its own

[Julie in the rv mirror]

Originally Posted by suzieq

What if Meat never mentioned anything about the album being a concept album and never shared the concept/story? Do you think anyone would put two and two together on their own and say...you know, I think these songs tell a story?

No, I agree with Pud. Even on a song-by-song basis; for example, California is supposed to be about a hooker? How does the song illustrate this? Bruce Springsteen's song Reno is about a hooker- it's obvious from the lyrics, no further explanation needed. (However, I won't even begin to compare the songs themselves because, IMO, there is no comparison. Reno is a serious song, for one thing)


As Sarge said, a true concept album tells the story all on it's own- Tommy, The Wall, Joe's Garage- those are concept albums.

Originally Posted by AndrewG

Could be a Meat / Springsteen clash.

Steel cage match? Exxxxcelllent!

Bruce could tag-team with the Big Man

[Pudding]

Originally Posted by RSG

Maybe all this discussion whether it is or not a concept album is just a stragety to get enough talk about the album to sell the record

The strategy doesn't seem to be working though does it

[ianmar]

Originally Posted by Pudding

No. I think you'd have to be taking some bizarre herbal medications to suddenly get the eureka moment of "f*ck me, these songs tell the story of ...

LOL @ Pud

I must say I have never given the idea of this story a second thought since my first listen! I prefer to determine the meaning of songs and the overall feel of the album myself (and that is often quite different from what the writer had in mind!).

I'd love the new album to have a certain consistent sound or "mood" to it - ala Bad Attitude (which remains my most played Meat album). I'd also like there to be a little more variety of pace and have two or three genuinely slow ballads. Meat's ability to convey emotion so clearly in his voice is never clearer than when he's singing a well written ballad which all of my favourite albums have. Combining this with the writing quality from HCTB would, for me, give a really exciting release.

Ian.

[nikox1]

Originally Posted by Pudding

The strategy doesn't seem to be working though does it

maybe/maybe not? but bat 1 did f**k all for nearly a year? and then suddenly took off? he tried something new, and i liked it. then there are some who didnt. but i think its better to do a modern fresh sounding album, rather than get someone in to write songs like Jim Steinman? and then everybody turn around and say, hey there trying to sound like Steinman!!! Meats moved on, like many artists do? and sometimes the die hards get left behind, or fans who are still back in the 70,s? thats life!! at the end of the day if people dont get it, hey what can ya do? i have one brain cell, and can see how its a story?

[nikox1]

Originally Posted by Julie in the rv mirror

No, I agree with Pud. Even on a song-by-song basis; for example, California is supposed to be about a hooker? How does the song illustrate this? Bruce Springsteen's song Reno is about a hooker- it's obvious from the lyrics, no further explanation needed. (However, I won't even begin to compare the songs themselves because, IMO, there is no comparison. Reno is a serious song, for one thing)


As Sarge said, a true concept album tells the story all on it's own- Tommy, The Wall, Joe's Garage- those are concept albums.




Steel cage match? Exxxxcelllent!

Bruce could tag-team with the Big Man

but in this modern age people dont make albums like that anymore? most people today would not know what a concept album is? i think Meat had to explain it? but some think it worked/some didnt.

[Sue K]

Originally Posted by nikox1

but in this modern age people dont make albums like that anymore? most people today would not know what a concept album is? i think Meat had to explain it? but some think it worked/some didnt.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Idiot

This album came out in 2004, pretty much modern age. I've been following this thread regarding concept albums and a memory came forward. I haven't heard this album and the reason I even have memory about it is that when it was released it kept being compared to, Bat1, I think, but please don't quote me on that. It kept coming up on my Meat alerts.

That's it. It's all I've got for now... lol ...

[nikox1]

Originally Posted by tink

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Idiot

This album came out in 2004, pretty much modern age. I've been following this thread regarding concept albums and a memory came forward. I haven't heard this album and the reason I even have memory about it is that when it was released it kept being compared to, Bat1, I think, but please don't quote me on that. It kept coming up on my Meat alerts.

That's it. It's all I've got for now... lol ...

did you see who produced it?

[Cherry.Loaf]

I don't think I would have gotten the Patrick story had I not have read the story (which I love!) but when listening to an album I try and think of a story to go with it

[nikox1]

Originally Posted by Cherry.Loaf

I don't think I would have gotten the Patrick story had I not have read the story (which I love!) but when listening to an album I try and think of a story to go with it

well thats ok, you paid for your album. it can be whatever you want it to be?
thats the great thing about music, it takes you off to where you wanna go?

[Sarge]

Originally Posted by nikox1

most people today would not know what a concept album is? i think Meat had to explain it?

Yeah, sure... People, especially Meat Loaf fans, are stupid these days. Aside from the fact that I hope that Meat does not explain the term "concept album" to the presumably ignorant part of the audience (because he obviously has a rather funny conception of what that is), your assumption doesnt make sense. If no one knows what a concept album is why bother making one or selling an album as a "concept" album? In this case you could also take any concept / story and tag it to the album. Oh... wait a sec...

By the way, I just checked out Tom Jones' new album and I rather hear a concept on that than on HCTB.

[Sue K]

Originally Posted by nikox1

did you see who produced it?

Yes.

[RSG]

hi tink :) really awesome to see you around. seen your name for close to 8 years. i heard the american idiot record produced by cavallo. i really like it. but it sounds like nothing from booh. i dunno what those guys were saying when they ma de that comparison. it was first green day album with variety of instruments with exception of the album that came before, "warning" was the album. but american did feature background vocals that green day never used before

[nikox1]

Originally Posted by Sarge

Yeah, sure... People, especially Meat Loaf fans, are stupid these days. Aside from the fact that I hope that Meat does not explain the term "concept album" to the presumably ignorant part of the audience (because he obviously has a rather funny conception of what that is), your assumption doesnt make sense. If no one knows what a concept album is why bother making one or selling an album as a "concept" album? In this case you could also take any concept / story and tag it to the album. Oh... wait a sec...

By the way, I just checked out Tom Jones' new album and I rather hear a concept on that than on HCTB.

HCTB was targeted at a younger audience, that is as clear as day. i was not targeting Meat fans, it would be targeted at lets say a new audience? green days american idiot album was a concept album, do you think 14m people gave a shit about the story? how many of them ever heard of a story album?
but its what the artist chose to do, and if Meat wanted to explain what the album is about, hey its hes album? i remember in a part of behind the music Kasim saying its a Meat Loaf record, not a fans record? he took a risk, and some got it and then some didnt? if Meat says its a story, well then its my job to find it? if i dont, well whats the problem? but when the album was been put together thats the story that Meat seen, thats what he was trying to get across. it worked for some and not for others?

1. POE = hes laying on the battle field, hes life flashing before him?
2. LOTO = hes young, tearing down the highway, two fingers to the world?
3. LOSAN - he meets a girl, shes a gold digger, hes obsessed with her?
4. ICHU - she dont want him no more? hes been a bad boy!! he cant live WOH

i dont have time at the moment to go through them all, but the album makes perfect sense to me? everything Meat said about it makes sense to me?
and if nobody has time to figure out the story? hey cool!! just enjoy the great tunes. 10% of the time when i listen to the album i think of the story?
so i guess i dont think of the story alot? but i do see the story, i mean its as clear as day

[Wario]

if you read the book itll all make sense

[Sarge]

Originally Posted by nikox1

HCTB was targeted at a younger audience, that is as clear as day. i was not targeting Meat fans, it would be targeted at lets say a new audience?

So where is that younger, new audience? Obviously the strategy you imply failed?

Originally Posted by nikox1

green days american idiot album was a concept album, do you think 14m people gave a shit about the story? how many of them ever heard of a story album?

Did you read and understand my question? Does the Green Day album come along with a short story, by the way?

Originally Posted by nikox1

but its what the artist chose to do, and if Meat wanted to explain what the album is about, hey its hes album?

What the hell are you reading into my post? All I'm saying is that it does not work and that I don't think that it's a concept album. Of course he can do whatever he wants but if he says something in public, people have the right to discuss it, haven't they?

Originally Posted by nikox1

if Meat says its a story, well then its my job to find it?

If it's your job, why do you need an explanation?

Originally Posted by nikox1

1. POE = hes laying on the battle field, hes life flashing before him?
2. LOTO = hes young, tearing down the highway, two fingers to the world?
3. LOSAN - he meets a girl, shes a gold digger, hes obsessed with her?
4. ICHU - she dont want him no more? hes been a bad boy!! he cant live WOH

Again, most of these songs existed BEFORE the story and / or were NOT written with the story in mind. Taking a story and finding already existing songs that could illustrate it or write a story you could read the songs into - that's not what a concept album is all about.

Originally Posted by nikox1

and if nobody has time to figure out the story?

Huh?

[Sarge]

Originally Posted by WarioLoaf

if you read the book itll all make sense

In which respect?

[Evil One]

Originally Posted by nikox1

HCTB was targeted at a younger audience

I could be wrong, but I didn't notice a dramatic increase in new, younger members registering on this site when HCTB was released. Just out of interest, would anyone 'in the know' be able to compare this number to when Bat 3 and CHSIB were released?

[Sarge]

@ nikox1

Just out of curiosity: Why the references to American Idiot? Maybe you should check how (and by whom) American Idiot and its concept was created and compare it to the history of HCTB. Maybe you'll realize how they differ from each other.

Addition: Just because a number of people bought Green Day's album regardless of whether it's a concept album or not that doesn't mean that "modern" people are too dumb to know what a concept album is. I'm sure in 1967 a lot of people bought Sgt. Pepper just because of the individual songs, too, and not primarily because of the concept. What you say is also quite contradictory. On the one hand you claim HCTB was meant to appeal to a younger audience who allegedly doesn't care about concepts. American Idiot was a concept album but sold well although or because the fans didn't care about the concept??? I'm confused. So again my question, why would he try to sell a concept to young people? Idealism? Education? Marketing strategy?

[AndyK]

Originally Posted by Evil One

Just out of interest, would anyone 'in the know' be able to compare this number to when Bat 3 and CHSIB were released?

If anyone can then Rainer can, I certainly can't find any reports of rate of new members against time.

However, from memory I don't think there's really any correlation of the rate new members joining here to album release.

We usualluy get a slight increase in the rate of new people joining if Meat is on the news, or on the TV, or on tour. But that has remained fairly steady and hasn't really changed over time. The only big increase we had was in the few days after that show in Newcastle.