Life is a Lemon - VBO 'Remix'

Mr. Happy · 25 Dec 2010, 13:34

I'm thinking of buying this off of iTunes, but I don't know how different it is from the original on Bat 2

All I can tell from the sound clip is that the drums seem a little heavier, and there's maybe a hint of a sound effect of some sort that fades out at the the end of the clip

Is it different enough that it's worth buying?

Evil One · 25 Dec 2010, 13:46

Only if you really like the song.

There is extra synthesized guitar (a Jeff Bova special

) added throughout, the intro and ending are slightly different and extra background vocals are added over the top of the existing ones. I don't think it's better or worse than the original, just different.

Wario · 25 Dec 2010, 16:21

Its not as good.

The drum intro is omitted and a weird LP sound effects are added,

A lot of unessasary synthesis and extra percussion.

**The Flying Mouse** · 25 Dec 2010, 17:12

You can pick up VBO up cheap enough, and it's worth getting for the three extra tracks

I love Lemon. and the VBO version is pretty good.

Mr. Happy · 26 Dec 2010, 07:51

Quote:

You can pick up VBO up cheap enough, and it's worth getting for the three extra tracks

I bought those three of iTunes ages ago

And I caved in and bought Lemon anyway. It's ok, I guess. Think the original is far better (of all the things to change, the drum into? Really?), but it's not too bad. Thanks for your input ^_^

metaloaf · 30 Dec 2010, 03:16

From what I understand, this mislabeled remix was actually Steinman's mix for the album, the one that Meat Loaf says he and Jim argued over in his autobiography. The eventual compromise went on the album, and Jim's mix was included on the "Best of" as a freebie.

Wario · 30 Dec 2010, 03:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by metaloaf

From what I understand, this mislabeled remix was actually Steinman's mix for the album, the one that Meat Loaf says he and Jim argued over in his autobiography. The eventual compromise went on the album, and Jim's mix was included on the "Best of" as a freebie.

thats false

Paul Richardson · 30 Dec 2010, 11:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by metaloaf

From what I understand, this mislabeled remix was actually Steinman's mix for the album, the one that Meat Loaf says he and Jim argued over in his autobiography. The eventual compromise went on the album, and Jim's mix was included on the "Best of" as a freebie.

I could be wrong, but I thought it was the other way round - Jim's mix is on Bat 2 and Meat's preferred mix is on the VBO. Wario ?

Evil One · 30 Dec 2010, 12:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Richardson

I could be wrong, but I thought it was the other way round - Jim's mix is on Bat 2 and Meat's preferred mix is on the VBO.

That sounds more like it.

Wario · 31 Dec 2010, 20:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Richardson

I could be wrong, but I thought it was the other way round - Jim's mix is on Bat 2 and Meat's preferred mix is on the VBO. Wario ?

The remix is by Steve Rinkoff of Sony.

meat probably liked it better then the original mix and thats why its on the VBO CD.

as for it being his preferred version of the track, why wasnt that the arrangement he used for the Live shows.

I always imagined Meat's perfered version had more drums, something he is known to like, as the drums on both the studio and remix are not that high in the mix compared to the other instruments.

Its all guess work when it all comes down to it, but the remix wasnt by meat but that steve guy.

AndrewG · 31 Dec 2010, 20:07

I doubt very much that crazy LP sound crackling remix of Lemon even existed before the VBO album was even thought of. Makes no sense whatsoever just like many crazy claims do on this board at times.

Wario · 31 Dec 2010, 20:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndrewG

I doubt very much that crazy LP sound crackling remix of Lemon even existed before the VBO album was even thought of. Makes no sense whatsoever just like many crazy claims do on this board at times.

yeah, those LP SFX sounded real bad.

AndrewG · 31 Dec 2010, 20:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarioLoaf

yeah, those LP SFX sounded real bad.

Sounds exactly what someone without much creativity would add when left to it him/herself, hence it must have been done later by Rinkoff or whoever. I'm sure Jim and Meat wouldn't be in the studio cooking that nonsense up and thinking WOW this NEEDS to be on Bat 2 no matter what, what amazing LP crackling effects we have here.

evil nickname · 31 Dec 2010, 20:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarioLoaf

The remix is by Steve Rinkoff of Sony. ... Its all guess work when it all comes down to it, but the remix wasnt by meat but that steve guy.

That Steve guy has been Jim's co-producer since the late 1980's. In fact, he was credited as associate producer and recording engineer on Bat II, where he also mixed Back Into Hell and Wasted Youth.

Also, I just checked To Hell and Back, and the only thing mentioned about the fight over Life is a Lemon is that there was a big fight over the mix of that song. So apart from guessing, there's little left to do here.

Evil One · 31 Dec 2010, 21:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndrewG

I doubt very much that crazy LP sound crackling remix of Lemon even existed before the VBO album was even thought of.

It existed around the time of Bat 2.

loaferman61 · 03 Jan 2011, 23:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by evil nickname

That Steve guy has been Jim's co-producer since the late 1980's. In fact, he was credited as associate producer and recording engineer on Bat II, where he also mixed Back Into Hell and Wasted Youth.

Also, I just checked To Hell and Back, and the only thing mentioned about the fight over Life is a Lemon is that there was a big fight over the mix of that song. So apart from guessing, there's little left to do here.

Anyone else think maybe some part of this song was in Jim's mind from his Def Leppard sessions?

Evil One · 03 Jan 2011, 23:45

Both this song and Everything Louder could be remnants of the Def Leppard sessions.

Paul Richardson · 04 Jan 2011, 11:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Holy One

Both this song and Everything Louder could be remnants of the Def Leppard sessions.

I know the operative words are 'could be...', but is there any evidence for this ? I'd be fascinated if anyone could shed any light on what actually happened between Jim and Def Leppard.

The only story I'm aware of is the one about Jim saying how pleased he was about being in Dublin, 'the home of Joyce and Yeats' and Joe Elliott replying that he hadn't met the local musicians yet (!)

Those sessions eventually resulted in Hysteria, which I'm pretty certain contains none of Jim's work so spectacular was their falling out ... did Jim really recycle his work with Def Leppard into Lemon and Everything Louder ? That would mean that apart from AFL there's NO original material on Bat 2...

Evil One · 04 Jan 2011, 11:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Richardson

I know the operative words are 'could be...', but is there any evidence for this

Nope

it's all guesswork.

There is another story about Def Leppard being pissed off with Jim's excessiveness but I can't remember all the details. Jim did mention once that AFL was created from three other songs he had lying about, so that would make Objects and Back Into Hell the only original creations for Bat 2.

AndrewG · 04 Jan 2011, 12:05

But even the line "I'd do anything for Love (but I Won't Do That!)" can be found in the Alan Gruner song "Getting So Excited", which is on Bonnie Tyler's "Faster than the speed of Night" produced by Steinman and released in 1983.

Has Jim Steinman actually written anything new since 1989?

Paul Richardson · 04 Jan 2011, 12:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Holy One

Jim did mention once that AFL was created from three other songs he had lying about, so that would make Objects and Back Into Hell the only original creations for Bat 2.

Shit, how could I forget about Objects - although the melody reminds me of Surf's Up, either that or I'm just losing my mind

Back into Hell is not that 'original' to my mind either...

...Andrew, I think you're right, no new material for over 20 years !

AndrewG · 04 Jan 2011, 12:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Richardson

Shit, how could I forget about Objects - although the melody reminds me of Surf's Up, either that or I'm just losing my mind

Basically the introduction of Surf's and the instrumental parts after the chorus in objects are indeed the same.
Steinman uses the same chord progression a lot. If the song is in C major it would go like this for example: C, am, F, G.
This is used in Objects, Surf's, AFL and Making Love and probably in others too. I don't mind him re-using that. There are enough differences in these songs to make them unique in my opinion. It does often make a Steinman song sound more Steinmany if he uses those chords for choruses or summary parts etc.

But indeed the recycling of full songs has gone far enough in my opinion, to the extent where I really think a Bat out of hell musical is completely unnecessary to be honest.

Evil One · 04 Jan 2011, 12:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndrewG

But indeed the recycling of full songs has gone far enough in my opinion

Someone (I think it was Smeghead

) once said that Jim cut a deal with the Devil to write awesome songs. The only problem is that he can only write the same awesome songs over and over again.

A Slice Of English · 04 Jan 2011, 18:41

I actually seem to be in the minority in preferring the remixed version of Lemon. I actually love it.

And recycled songs or not, Bat 2 is still the soundtrack of my youth and the best album I have ever heard bar none.

loaferman61 · 12 Jan 2011, 21:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Richardson

Shit, how could I forget about Objects - although the melody reminds me of Surf's Up, either that or I'm just losing my mind

Back into Hell is not that 'original' to my mind either...

...Andrew, I think you're right, no new material for over 20 years !

The very first time I heard "Objects" I immediately heard the "Surf's Up" connection. "Holding Out for a Hero" has parts of "Come In the Night" included at a faster pace (the "like a fire in my blood" part). And I totally hear a Leppard influence on "Lemon" though maybe indirect, it is there.

25 Dec 2010, 13:34	#1
Mr. Happy Guest Join Date: 13.02.2010 Location: Posts: 736	Life is a Lemon - VBO 'Remix' I'm thinking of buying this off of iTunes, but I don't know how different it is from the original on Bat 2 All I can tell from the sound clip is that the drums seem a little heavier, and there's maybe a hint of a sound effect of some sort that fades out at the the end of the clip Is it different enough that it's worth buying?

25 Dec 2010, 13:46	#2
Evil One Mega Loafer Join Date: 15.01.2007 Posts: 5,193	Only if you really like the song. There is extra synthesized guitar (a Jeff Bova special ) added throughout, the intro and ending are slightly different and extra background vocals are added over the top of the existing ones. I don't think it's better or worse than the original, just different.

25 Dec 2010, 16:21	#3
Wario Monstro helps me spell things... Join Date: 05.01.2007 Location: Masculine, Pennsylvania Posts: 9,105	Its not as good. The drum intro is omitted and a weird LP sound effects are added, A lot of unessasary synthesis and extra percussion.

25 Dec 2010, 17:12	#4
The Flying Mouse Armed ba$tard and Jo's other half. Join Date: 06.08.2002 Location: In the middle of nowhere near the end of the line. Posts: 16,104	You can pick up VBO up cheap enough, and it's worth getting for the three extra tracks I love Lemon. and the VBO version is pretty good.

30 Dec 2010, 03:16	#6
metaloaf Banned Join Date: 29.12.2010 Posts: 4	From what I understand, this mislabeled remix was actually Steinman's mix for the album, the one that Meat Loaf says he and Jim argued over in his autobiography. The eventual compromise went on the album, and Jim's mix was included on the "Best of" as a freebie.

31 Dec 2010, 20:07	#11
AndrewG I hope your salmon sucks! Join Date: 18.01.2004 Location: Northamptonshire Posts: 7,083	I doubt very much that crazy LP sound crackling remix of Lemon even existed before the VBO album was even thought of. Makes no sense whatsoever just like many crazy claims do on this board at times.

03 Jan 2011, 23:45	#17
Evil One Mega Loafer Join Date: 15.01.2007 Posts: 5,193	Both this song and Everything Louder could be remnants of the Def Leppard sessions.

04 Jan 2011, 12:05	#20
AndrewG I hope your salmon sucks! Join Date: 18.01.2004 Location: Northamptonshire Posts: 7,083	But even the line "I'd do anything for Love (but I Won't Do That!)" can be found in the Alan Gruner song "Getting So Excited", which is on Bonnie Tyler's "Faster than the speed of Night" produced by Steinman and released in 1983. Has Jim Steinman actually written anything new since 1989?

04 Jan 2011, 18:41	#24
A Slice Of English Guest Join Date: 10.11.2003 Posts: 1,258	I actually seem to be in the minority in preferring the remixed version of Lemon. I actually love it. And recycled songs or not, Bat 2 is still the soundtrack of my youth and the best album I have ever heard bar none.