Debate

[The Flying Mouse]

Originally Posted by Wario

wish romney won. makes everything that has transpired here seem pointless and uneeded. Good fans for lost cause of this ordeal and it didnt need to happen. Mosntro, allrevved up, bostonangel

I don't think a fair minded fan has a problem with the actual endorcement, Chris.
I think the issue is how Meat dealt with the fall out. To not reassure those who could have used it concerning which of Romneys policies he believed in (and the ones he disagrees with), to edit his facebook page (which I can understand) and his reaction here when he visited the forum.

His endorcement was well meant and honest, and I can back him on that, even though I don't share his views. It's having him insult the fans so badly that has got a lot of feathers ruffled.

[TheDoode]

Originally Posted by Kathy

Your simple answer would work well if Meat were not on this forum. But he is, and he has been hurt, for the umpteenth time, by comments about his voice. Maybe this concerns you less than the feeling of "oppression" you have at not being able to say whatever you like. If so, you are among those I mentioned earlier, who don't care about him as a person; otherwise you would not want to see him hurt. And you would not view efforts to encourage honest but non-hurtful posts as "bullying."

.

Did you read the post you just quoted? The bit about posts not being "intentionally rude or inflammatory"? I keep stating this over and over again, and the replies come back regurgitated.

As for not viewing "efforts to encourage honest but non-hurtful posts as "bullying" - that's not what I said at all. Ever. So please don't accuse me of that, or as part of your 'you're either one or the other type of fan' mentality. Because I find that kind of oppressive too. And annoying.

[Evil Ernie]

Originally Posted by Wario

wish romney won. makes everything that has transpired here seem pointless and uneeded. Good fans for lost cause of this ordeal and it didnt need to happen. Mosntro, allrevved up, bostonangel

whatever happened to pudding?

Is ML endorsing him the only reason that you wish this happened?

Would you have voted for Obama otherwise?

Or do you simply not vote due to a desirable candidate? Like me.

Last I checked the world supply of pudding has not been depleted. You can go to your local grocery store to buy pudding for you sustenance. I kind of wang some now.

[realViking]

Originally Posted by Fire Ball

I agree most don't deserve it , but I had to start the fight to find the real enemies. When it ends the real fans will still be here and I will do something special for them . Was thinking when I came on that was going to invite all here to a dress Rehearsal in April. I would say 97% will be invited.
Meat

i`m sooooo wondering if I`ll get invited, even though I live far north in little Norway.....I`v been nice...I`v been good...I`v been a really good Girl

[Battybarb]

If you are a true fan of someone in this case Meat Loaf and I have been for years .you are a fan for their music and their talent , and whatever their political views are their business and is nothing to do with anyone else , I have read some articles where Meat has been slated and some awful things have been said by people who are meant to be fans , at the end of the day everyone is entitled to their opinion and this includes Meat Loaf , what happened to free speech ?

[TheDoode]

Originally Posted by Battybarb

If you are a true fan of someone in this case Meat Loaf and I have been for years .you are a fan for their music and their talent , and whatever their political views are their business and is nothing to do with anyone else , I have read some articles where Meat has been slated and some awful things have been said by people who are meant to be fans , at the end of the day everyone is entitled to their opinion and this includes Meat Loaf , what happened to free speech ?

Apparently it only exists if you're called Meat Loaf.

I'm thinking about changing my name.

[renegadeangel]

Seems pretty clear that Meat was intent on upsetting those he feels are too negative and would very much like them to leave. I'm only guessing but it seems that he blew up to force the people he feels are negative to come out or just go away.
I think he would rather have those who are super critical leave and not post at all and he forced the issue with the shotgun approach.
Right or wrong that is how it appears...

[jcmoorehead]

Like a few other fans throughout this thread I rarely post on this forum anymore, it is a shame because I enjoy how Meat interacts with fans and to be honest he was one of the first, and actually still is one of the very few artists who I see interacting with fans via a message board and that speaks volumes to me about how much he does appreciate the fans even if there is the occasional rant.

I do take issue with the opening statement, having been a forum admin for over ten years on bigger message boards it is something that I would have locked straight away and not allowed to escalate like this has done. That's just me though and I'm sure the admins/moderators here have reasons for keeping it open, after all freedom of speech, etc. I don't think however it is fair to call out 97% of your fans on this board for being whatever, some of them on here are critical, perhaps a bit too harsh, whatever but it's your tightest fanclub on the internet and the people who hang around on boards like this are always the harshest critics. I hang around on the Mike Portnoy/Dream Theater boards loads and they take an absolute hammering from their fans, they all love the music and albums but if James has an off night live he'll get hammered for it, and Mike Portnoy is (And especially now that he isn't in the band anymore) always getting it in the neck.

I'm sure it's what comes of being famous and in that limelight, far be it from me to tell you how to act but you've dealt with criticism before and surely you can just shrug it off. As I said maybe people were a bit harsh but it's so easy to come across as harsh when you let your fingers run away with you and not reread what you write.

The politics thing, I was surprised when Meat endorsed Romney, but he explained his reasoning and I can appreciate that. Being from Britain I only hear the more extreme ends of the views on both sides, I personally would have been an Obama supporter were I American but we have the freedom to choose, hell I voted Conservative over here in the UK last election. (Yes I do regret it.) Of course people should have respected your choice, but your threw yourself out there into the public eye with your support and politics causes people to go a bit over the top. Again the internet has unfortunately lead to people being a bit harsher then then normally would be, hiding behind anonymity and nicknames, not that I think people should be forced into giving their real names but it does make it easier for people to be nastier.

At the end of it, I am and will continue to be a Meat Loaf fan, regardless of political support (Unless you like... become a Nazi or something then I'll probably have second thoughts) or any bad performances because it was your music I was brought up with and that I have loved for years. Yes as a fan I'll be critical of some moments, and at the end of it you're human like I am so I'll disagree with what some of your views may be.

I don't think it is fair at all for you to come on here and call out your fans or argue with them regardless of what they might have said, if you had an issue surely you should have spoke privately to a moderator and got it sorted that way. Instead creating this kind of public mess doesn't help anyone, it's just caused petty arguments and doesn't exactly look great for any Meat Loaf fans who might come across these forums.

[chairboys]

Originally Posted by The Flying Mouse

I say, with no problem or regret at all, that I peaked as a magician at about 20 years old. It was at my most creative (in that field) my interest in the field was still strong, the hands were fast and the brain was quick (believe it or not ).

Some of your sleight of hand when cleaning up a thread still bamboozles me.
You've still got it!

[GDW]

At least he still likes 3% of his fans.

[BostonAngel]

Originally Posted by Battybarb

If you are a true fan of someone in this case Meat Loaf and I have been for years .you are a fan for their music and their talent , and whatever their political views are their business and is nothing to do with anyone else , I have read some articles where Meat has been slated and some awful things have been said by people who are meant to be fans , at the end of the day everyone is entitled to their opinion and this includes Meat Loaf , what happened to free speech ?

If was about his political views this would be true. The problem wasn't with his politics, it was about his generally bad behavior on so many levels, which reached a peak when he insulted 97% of his fan base. As a fan even if you didn't feel like you were one of the 97%, one of your friends had to be. He then tried to soften that message by saying the figure was highly inflated. IT was too little too late. The damage had already been done and people had already been hurt. The problem was also that Meat was using his free speech yet not allowing his fans that same option - to speak freely. When fans spoke out against that, he then insulted those that dared excercise the right to free speech, calling them "his enemies." The whole free speech thing works both ways - it is for the fans as well as Meat.
Every single time someone says it is simply about politics, it shows that they haven't been paying attention and reading what others have to say to find out what is going on. That only brings the whole heart of the debate and the feelings that go along with it back to the surface again.

[AndrewG]

I think Meat has been hanging around with idiots like Donald Trump too long. What a moron that man is, showing his true colours mocking the electoral college system, saying it is not a "democratic" vote. Would a vote by 90% white men be "more" democratic?? And I'm sure he wouldn't have made a squeek had Romney won.

[samurai7]

Originally Posted by GDW

At least he still likes 3% of his fans.

Wanna have a stab at naming them?

[LisaT]

Originally Posted by samurai7

Wanna have a stab at naming them?

I'm tempted, but think I'll leave it!

[AndrewG]

Originally Posted by samurai7

Wanna have a stab at naming them?

It seems several people have already declared themselves as being part of the 3% club in this thread.

[chairboys]

If Meat does invite the fan club to a rehearsal I fear a riot in the crowd.

[BostonAngel]

Originally Posted by AndrewG

It seems several people have already declared themselves as being part of the 3% club in this thread.

To true! At least 25% have declared themselves to be part of the 3% LOL

[BostonAngel]

Originally Posted by LisaT

I'm tempted, but think I'll leave it!

It is tempting; I shall resist as well

[CarylB]

Originally Posted by AndrewG

It seems several people have already declared themselves as being part of the 3% club in this thread.

A number of people have said they took no personal offence because they knew Meat wouldn't consider them hyper-critical, negative or against him in any way, me being one of them. I don't indulge in percentage talk because personally I dismissed the figures Meat quoted as nothing more than exaggeration in the heat of the moment. Like many who have posted here, I know he wasn't including me, that's all

[ricgough]

Originally Posted by AndrewG

I think Meat has been hanging around with idiots like Donald Trump too long. What a moron that man is, showing his true colours mocking the electoral college system, saying it is not a "democratic" vote. Would a vote by 90% white men be "more" democratic?? And I'm sure he wouldn't have made a squeek had Romney won.

It does highlight how important it is to win the popular vote as well as the electoral one, and last time I checked, Obama won that too.

That kinda "trumps" Trump's argument if you ask me.

I hope Meat does understand he has no real enemies here, and I can understand how honest opinions can be difficult to swallow when it is you who is being talked about and you (quite obviously) care deeply and quite rightly, about issues such as politics and how fans view your career.

I increasingly get a picture of someone who wears his heart on his sleeve, and whilst I can't say I agree with some of the statements he has made here, or appreciate the tone of these responses, I do respect the fact that he is honest, works hard and clearly cares deeply - you just couldn't get that mad if you didn't.

I think the time has come for a little perspective now. Yes Meat does appear to have a heated temper at times, but also I've seen plenty of genuine kindness in his postings - concern fo Pudding after the New Zealand earthquake last year and wedding-day messages both on-stage and on here for example.

On balance I know he is a good guy, but also a man of emotional extremes. (too many concussions ;O ? ) It is this that probably makes him the performer we love so much in the end, so I ain't going to criticise too much. We are all flawed, we all get hurt sometimes and all have the capacity to hurt back.

The "blame game" just becomes pointless and immature after a while....

I think this has probably gone on long enough now, so I call for a bit of balance from the critics in the same way to the way I called for the similar from one or two of the more sychophantic among us in an earlier post.

I think that's me done on this thread, it is getting repetitive and silly.

If Meat wants to discuss anything I've said which may have unitentionally annoyed him in any way I'll happily discuss it via email. I ain't going to get into a slagging match on the board without offering the opportunity to discuss things confidentially beforehand....

[lorenzoduke]

In any social situation - and this forum is a social situation - there will be debate about things. The person who loses their temper, their cool, and resorts to shouting, swearing and insults owes the people at that gathering an apology.

That anyone would defend this behaviour is beyond me. I've admired Meat for years to the point that friends have pulled me up on constantly extolling his virtues - but where decent manners are concerned I wouldn't waver whether it was Meat Loaf, John Lennon, Jesus Christ or Mother Hubbard who was shitting at the dinner table.

As for this crap about how he was basically doing an experiment on us all? Well, I'm not a rat and this isn't a laboratory.

[CarylB]

Understanding isn't agreeing, endorsing or even condoning; nor is forgiving.

On balance I know he is a good guy, but also a man of emotional extremes. It is this that probably makes him the performer we love so much in the end, so I ain't going to criticise too much. We are all flawed, we all get hurt sometimes and all have the capacity to hurt back.

The "blame game" just becomes pointless and immature after a while....

I think this has probably gone on long enough now

.

That I can endorse wholeheartedly

[ricgough]

Originally Posted by lorenzoduke

In any social situation - and this forum is a social situation - there will be debate about things. The person who loses their temper, their cool, and resorts to shouting, swearing and insults owes the people at that gathering an apology.

That anyone would defend this behaviour is beyond me. I've admired Meat for years to the point that friends have pulled me up on constantly extolling his virtues - but where decent manners are concerned I wouldn't waver whether it was Meat Loaf, John Lennon, Jesus Christ or Mother Hubbard who was shitting at the dinner table.

As for this crap about how he was basically doing an experiment on us all? Well, I'm not a rat and this isn't a laboratory.

Okay - tha last one was the penultimate post on this matter.

In the social situation you described - the person who resorts to that kind of behaviour usually looses the argument. I don't think Meat was in the right here, everyone would have welcomed his measured thoughts on the issues that he aparrently took offence to.

I don't think I'm necessarily defending Meat, Just saying that the level of recrimination is getting daft now, and the slightly bipolar nature of his artistic output is what attracted is here in the first-place after all. What's the point in getting offended at an internet post anyway? Meat is still Meat, you are still you. we all still think what we thought before about the issues in hand.

I'm sure Meat is a good guy. Perhaps difficult to live with sometimes but a good guy. I'm also sure those of us who discussed the issues which drew the reaction did so in an honest and legitimate manner. It is a fundamental right to disagree and I don't think any party here would argue with that. The recriminations are just going on too long, becoming self-indulgent and it is getting petty now.


one last thought - this is Meat Loaf. An artist, musician, actor, performer, lover, fighter, businessman, liberal, independent, republican, conservative, commune-living-hippy, charlie manson hitchiker, friend of Steinman (who's sexuality and political affiliations are freely discussed and remain searchable on another forum), a soft-ball coach, charity worker, philanthropist, employer, employee, registered trade mark, husband, father and many other things not in the public domain.
If I had been trying to hold that identity together in the public eye for the last 40 years then I'm sure i'd have some conflicts - cut the guy some slack and ask yourself the question: can you say you would never spout off on a web forum if you saw something you rightly or wrongly percieved as threatening or ill informed?



That's all.

[Tomjoad]

Meat congratulates President Obama on fb page, have a look...

[The Flying Mouse]

I think his last post on facebook is very telling towards how he's feeling.
Especially the last paragraph.