just won't quit - Page 2

**The Flying Mouse** · 23 Feb 2009, 20:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by RadioMaster

it's nothing to do with cynicism, I was simply pointing out that 99% of the audience wont bother to check those stories anyway. He has a reputation of twisting the truth once in a while, that's something different to mixing up or forgetting things. If I'm a cynic by pointing that out, so be it.

I personally dont really care about those stories, and I take them with a pinch of salt. And at the end of the day I'm a fan because of the music and performance of the loaf, not because of the stories he's telling. (except for storytellers

)

Thanks for the irrelevent spelling correction there RJ

I think it's cyn[whogivesadamn]i[/whogivesadamn]cal to say something is BS without reason to believe it's BS.
Meat, being human, likes to kid, forgets facts, and sometimes even exaggerates.
That's no reason to automatically think everything he says has got to be bull

until proved otherwise

**RadioMaster** · 23 Feb 2009, 20:44

hold on, I didnt say I wouldnt have a reason to believe it's BS, I said I dont care if it's BS

**The Flying Mouse** · 23 Feb 2009, 21:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by RadioMaster

hold on, I didnt say I wouldnt have a reason to believe it's BS, I said I dont care if it's BS

OK, let's go with this.

Meat has said that he has not performed FCOL between the early days and MSO.
That apart from singing parts of it at some Storytellers shows, it's not been done since 78/79.

There are no official releases that contain live versions of FCOL performed in this time frame.

There are no bootlegs during these years that include FCOL.And how many bootlegs are there from throughout his career?There are bootlegs available of most of his work, but not of FCOL.

No mention of FCOL is in any tour program.

No forum, memeber has talked about hearing a live version of FCOL.

You yourself have never seen him sing it live.

Since MSO, FCOL is still not a regular song at Meat's shows.

In fact, has he done it since?

With all that evidence (or lack of it) how can you say........

Quote:

Originally Posted by RadioMaster

he claims a lot when the day is long though...

without coming across as a cynic?

duke knooby · 23 Feb 2009, 21:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Flying Mouse

No forum memeber has talked about hearing a live version of FCOL.

I saw him sing it live.. (FCOL that is, not it just won't quit)

**The Flying Mouse** · 23 Feb 2009, 21:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by duke knooby

i saw him sing it live

That's great

Can you please tell us the date and venue, oh, and the rest of the set list would be cool

duke knooby · 23 Feb 2009, 21:21

certainly, march 18th '99 kingshall belfast on the very best of tour

and link is from debs site...

http://www.debsmeatyworld.co.uk/Meat...18_belfast.htm

more details on page 2!!

LucyK! · 23 Feb 2009, 21:23

He didn't do the full version on Best Of did he?

**The Flying Mouse** · 23 Feb 2009, 21:23

Full version?

duke knooby · 23 Feb 2009, 21:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucy!

He didn't do the full version on Best Of did he?

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Flying Mouse

Full version?

honestly... I can't remember

LucyK! · 23 Feb 2009, 21:27

I'm as sure as I can be (given I wasn't at that show!) that he didn't do the full version...he did a snippet at Wembley but nothing longer than that

duke knooby · 23 Feb 2009, 21:44

was definitely more than a snippet, but dunno if it was the full version...

greg · 23 Feb 2009, 21:51

when i asked meat why he don't soing it live . he gave me that stare . & said next question , thats meat all over i thought

**The Flying Mouse** · 23 Feb 2009, 22:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by duke knooby

was definitely more than a snippet, but dunno if it was the full version...

Even if he DID do the whole version, is it not possible that he forgot about it rather than it being BS?

Hell, I don't know for sure what I sang 10 years ago.

*AndyK* · 23 Feb 2009, 22:33

During the VBO tour Meat sang parts of For Crying Out Loud, but to the best of my knowledge he never sang the whole song, like he did on MSO.

Certaintly he did at Belfast (as Jonty says) and also at Wembley on March 28th ... I rmember because I was there, mouth wide open and stunned because I never ever ever thought I'd hear him sing even part of it live.

**RadioMaster** · 23 Feb 2009, 22:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Flying Mouse

OK, let's go with this.

Meat has said that he has not performed FCOL between the early days and MSO.
That apart from singing parts of it at some Storytellers shows, it's not been done since 78/79.

There are no official releases that contain live versions of FCOL performed in this time frame.

Wrong, there is the LATW recording, which he claims he did at a sound check. May this be true or not, I have no idea.

Quote:

There are no bootlegs during these years that include FCOL.And how many bootlegs are there from throughout his career?There are bootlegs available of most of his work, but not of FCOL.

I would hardly say there are bootlegs of most of his work. Let's say there are 100 bootlegs throughout his career, that's 3 a year, so logically seen the chance is quite high, that one specific performance (the one with FCOL) hasnt been documented.

Quote:

No mention of FCOL is in any tour program.

true, but tour programs are mostly printed before the majority of the shows are through, and again, I dont think the performance of one single song might be important enough to get a mention in a tourbook.

Quote:

No forum, memeber has talked about hearing a live version of FCOL.

well, a) Jonty did, and that's on what I've based my theory and b), even if there would be no one remembering it: try to find someone who has attended, for example, a show in 77/78, or someone who was at the MSO recording, or 3 Bats live, etc
The chance to find someone who attended one specific show is not as high as you might think.

Quote:

You yourself have never seen him sing it live.

I never claimed that.

My point was, he said clearly the song WASNT performed live since March 78 in NYC. And I claim he KNOW that was wrong. Especially as he performed it so little times it would be hard to forget about it.
HE claimed it wasnt performed since 78, everything else, if in front of an audience or not, if full or not, was nothing that he said at the specific show. Those were all points he/people made later to twist the truth a little and make his comment look true.

The way I look at it, is that he wanted to make the audience at the MSO recording feel like they're seeing something more special than it was. Especially as this also includes the DVD audience.
We as fans, KNOW that a performance of FCOL is something special, but 99% of the people who bought the DVD dont. So his little speech before the song made them realise theyre gonna see something special. So all in all they might remember the show as soemthing more special, and might even tell a friend about it.
Again, most of those people wont care if that story is true, or wont bother to check, it's only us ML nerds who know the truth, and we dont make the majority of the sales.

So I say, he damn well knew what he was talking about, so we shouldnt ignore that, but except it as a, lets say, marketing tool.

phew, that was a long post wasnt it?

**The Flying Mouse** · 23 Feb 2009, 23:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by RadioMaster

Wrong, there is the LATW recording, which he claims he did at a sound check. May this be true or not, I have no idea.
I would hardly say there are bootlegs of most of his work. Let's say there are 100 bootlegs throughout his career, that's 3 a year, so logically seen the chance is quite high, that one specific performance (the one with FCOL) hasnt been documented.

There are bootleg versions of most of his songs.
A bootleg featuring FCOL would be pretty sought after as it's a big favourite.
Yes, it's possible that Meat has performed the whole song on several occasions over the years, but only on dates where no bootlegs have been recorded.
You think?

Quote:

Originally Posted by RadioMaster

true, but tour programs are mostly printed before the majority of the shows are through, and again, I dont think the performance of one single song might be important enough to get a mention in a tourbook.

So are the set lists.
It might not be important enough to dedicate a double spread tribute, but if Meat was performing it i'm sure it would have gone in the set lists that have been published in previous tour books.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RadioMaster

well, a) Jonty did, and that's on what I've based my theory and b), even if there would be no one remembering it: try to find someone who has attended, for example, a show in 77/78, or someone who was at the MSO recording, or 3 Bats live, etc
The chance to find someone who attended one specific show is not as high as you might think.

Jonty has said he doesn't know what he remembers.
Meat has said he has performed parts of the song.
If Meat performed part of the song at the show Jonty was at, Meat was telling the truth.
And it's not high as you'd think.
But come on, no mention from anyone, no mention in tour book, no bootleg.
What's this starting to look like?
The truth?

Quote:

Originally Posted by RadioMaster

I never claimed that.

My point exactly

Quote:

Originally Posted by RadioMaster

My point was, he said clearly the song WASNT performed live since March 78 in NYC. And I claim he KNOW that was wrong. Especially as he performed it so little times it would be hard to forget about it.
HE claimed it wasnt performed since 78, everything else, if in front of an audience or not, if full or not, was nothing that he said at the specific show. Those were all points he/people made later to twist the truth a little and make his comment look true.

What?
He claimed that he hasn't performed the whole song live since March 78 (to use the date you've put).
That's what Meat has said, and there is no everdence that this is not true.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RadioMaster

The way I look at it, is that he wanted to make the audience at the MSO recording feel like they're seeing something more special than it was. Especially as this also includes the DVD audience.
We as fans, KNOW that a performance of FCOL is something special, but 99% of the people who bought the DVD dont. So his little speech before the song made them realise theyre gonna see something special. So all in all they might remember the show as soemthing more special, and might even tell a friend about it.
Again, most of those people wont care if that story is true, or wont bother to check, it's only us ML nerds who know the truth, and we dont make the majority of the sales.

He might have wanted to make them feel part of something special by singing the song in the first place

As you say, only Meat heads will know that a performance of FCOL is special, so why not announce it?
And to be honest, even though fans love the song so much, the average lay fan will tell their friends about Bat ut Of Hell and Paradise.Stuff they know.
THe point is that not even we Meat Loaf nerds know the truth.
I'm not even sure Meat knows the truth.
Or Jim Steinman.
As i've said, I couldn't tell you what songs I sang 10 years ago.I really couldn't.
What I DO know is that if anyone does know the truth it's bound to be Meat.And I don't see why he would need to lie about such a triviality.
NOTHING supports the theory that Meat has sang this, and everything points to Meat being right.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RadioMaster

So I say, he damn well knew what he was talking about

The very point i'm trying to make

Quote:

Originally Posted by RadioMaster

, so we shouldnt ignore that, but except it as a,
lets say, marketing tool.

Yes, I think it was used to some extent as a marketing tool (to how much success

) but does that mean it's not also true ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by RadioMaster

phew, that was a long post wasnt it?

They getting longer

greg · 23 Feb 2009, 23:29

that was my thoughts aswell r.j meat was selling the mso show , we all know if you don't go over the top , your never know whats on the over side . & thats how meat , would of got people to take notice about fcol

Sarge · 24 Feb 2009, 00:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by RadioMaster

My point was, he said clearly the song WASNT performed live since March 78 in NYC. And I claim he KNOW that was wrong. Especially as he performed it so little times it would be hard to forget about it...

I'm beginning to believe that you take this issue a little too seriously. Are you that finicking when it comes to the statements of other artists, too? It's just a comment regarding whether he has performed a particular song in recent years or not but when reading certain postings I'm under the impression as if he committed some misdeed.

You "claim he KNOW that was wrong" - but you don't know. Even if he deliberately lied in this case, would that really be such a big deal? It's entertainment!

greg · 24 Feb 2009, 00:19

the show must go on

**RadioMaster** · 24 Feb 2009, 09:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sarge

I'm beginning to believe that you take this issue a little too seriously. Are you that finicking when it comes to the statements of other artists, too? It's just a comment regarding whether he has performed a particular song in recent years or not but when reading certain postings I'm under the impression as if he committed some misdeed.

You "claim he KNOW that was wrong" - but you don't know. Even if he deliberately lied in this case, would that really be such a big deal? It's entertainment!

it's not a big deal at all for me, as I've said I actually dont really care about it, but once an argument is started, I have to continue to make my point

btw, am I the only one who thinks it's funny that the thread is called 'it just wont quit'?

Sarge · 24 Feb 2009, 10:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by RadioMaster

it's not a big deal at all for me

Considering the length of your postings it is. It's funny that you don't wanna believe him in this case but apparently you're willing to believe his stories about his age, for example. Otherwise you wouldn't stress how "old" he is time and again.

Seems to depend on whether a story suits you...

23 Feb 2009, 23:29	#42
greg Super Loafer Join Date: 14.04.2002 Location: lincoln Posts: 887	that was my thoughts aswell r.j meat was selling the mso show , we all know if you don't go over the top , your never know whats on the over side . & thats how meat , would of got people to take notice about fcol Last edited by greg; 24 Feb 2009 at 00:18.

23 Feb 2009, 20:44	#27
RadioMaster The German Join Date: 11.03.2006 Location: some kind of hunting lodge for rich weirdos... Posts: 15,778	hold on, I didnt say I wouldnt have a reason to believe it's BS, I said I dont care if it's BS

23 Feb 2009, 21:21	#31
duke knooby Mega Loafer Join Date: 24.06.2005 Location: belfast Posts: 17,884	certainly, march 18th '99 kingshall belfast on the very best of tour and link is from debs site... http://www.debsmeatyworld.co.uk/Meat...18_belfast.htm more details on page 2!!

23 Feb 2009, 21:23	#32
LucyK! The Monster Is Luce Join Date: 14.04.2002 Location: Posts: 7,547	He didn't do the full version on Best Of did he?

23 Feb 2009, 21:23	#33
The Flying Mouse Armed ba$tard and Jo's other half. Join Date: 06.08.2002 Location: In the middle of nowhere near the end of the line. Posts: 16,104	Full version?

23 Feb 2009, 21:27	#35
LucyK! The Monster Is Luce Join Date: 14.04.2002 Location: Posts: 7,547	I'm as sure as I can be (given I wasn't at that show!) that he didn't do the full version...he did a snippet at Wembley but nothing longer than that

23 Feb 2009, 21:44	#36
duke knooby Mega Loafer Join Date: 24.06.2005 Location: belfast Posts: 17,884	was definitely more than a snippet, but dunno if it was the full version...

23 Feb 2009, 21:51	#37
greg Super Loafer Join Date: 14.04.2002 Location: lincoln Posts: 887	when i asked meat why he don't soing it live . he gave me that stare . & said next question , thats meat all over i thought

23 Feb 2009, 22:33	#39
AndyK Relentless Join Date: 21.11.2003 Location: Over the top..... seeing what's on the other side Posts: 18,694	During the VBO tour Meat sang parts of For Crying Out Loud, but to the best of my knowledge he never sang the whole song, like he did on MSO. Certaintly he did at Belfast (as Jonty says) and also at Wembley on March 28th ... I rmember because I was there, mouth wide open and stunned because I never ever ever thought I'd hear him sing even part of it live.

24 Feb 2009, 00:19	#44
greg Super Loafer Join Date: 14.04.2002 Location: lincoln Posts: 887	the show must go on