Hot Holidays

[letsgotoofar]

...something better than those, right?

[AndrewG]

Originally Posted by letsgotoofar

...something better than those, right?

We're all ears buddy.

[glockenspiel]

If it's going to happen at all, then it will now be for Dec 2017,, which is a long time to sit around speculating!

[AndrewG]

Originally Posted by glockenspiel

If it's going to happen at all, then it will now be for Dec 2017,, which is a long time to sit around speculating!

Given Meat's album release delays the last 10 years, I think Dec 2020 is more likely.

[nightinr]

Originally Posted by CarylB

You didn't rattle my cage .. I just found your comment "Meat screwed up .." another mess on the carpet I decided not to step over, but clean up

I didn't even include his Greatest Hits album, as it wasn't a studio album but a rather splendid compilation issued to coincide with the tour he gave us in '99. So many have been issued without his involvement, sometimes even his knowledge .. he deserved to issue at least one himself. I think CHSIB is one of his best albums, well worth the wait, and much appreciated in Germany and here (where it charted 4)



I am one of those who agrees it is wrong to shove up poor quality clips from live shows against the artists's wishes. Warrio puts up only shows which Meat has given him permission to do, I assume does it well, so I don't criticise him (just as I don't "slag off" those who breach copyright .. simply defend Meat's ownership and decisions on his live material being publicly shown). I have, however, always gone to see as many live shows as I could, and I have never watched one of those on Chris' account. Not being blessed with second sight, the only way I can tell if people "on here" DO is when they thank or compliment Chris.

Wow Caryl...you have never watched a single clip of Meat on Wario's YouTube channel?

[CarylB]

Originally Posted by nightinr

Wow Caryl...you have never watched a single clip of Meat on Wario's YouTube channel?

I didn't actually write that; I referred to live concert footage. But apart from the one Chris put together for The Painted Turtle based on CA, I don't believe I have. I repeat, I don't watch concert footage on YT (although if I did I would choose his channel as he only puts on things Meat has agreed to) .. and I have all Meat's albums.

[nightinr]

I think you're missing out Caryl. Fair enough there is some dodgy stuff, but there is also some great stuff on there both sound and picture.

[Wario]

Originally Posted by nightinr

With regards Wario....I know some on here (who I won't name) often slag off people who put stuff on Youtube.

Slagging happened a lot a couple years ago, but when meat went out of his way to make sure my channel wasn't taken down, it was a great feeling. Doing a weekly RedPony Youtube purge he accedently strikes my channel and we resolved it. Caryl I respect doesn't like bootlegs, no matter if meats ok with the nostalgic ones being up or not. I respect that.

I do know of who u speak there are more than a couple but it's more me rather than the fact it's a bootleg. I am a very polarizing member.

Originally Posted by nightinr

I think you're missing out Caryl. Fair enough there is some dodgy stuff, but there is also some great stuff on there both sound and picture.

Even the dodgy stuff is what it is, st Petersburg sucks quality wise but damn that voice. Flushing Meadows too. Dortmund 96 is the worst but it's the only full WTTN tour show we got. But it's rare video and nostalgic to Meat and past band members.

I don't post unless it's something really good. I don't bug meat with every little recording I get to put up.

On topic I always felt a great and much better title for this album would have been Oh Holy Hell.

[nightinr]

When I said "dodgy stuff" I was referring to YouTube as a whole Wario. Your channel is absolutely brilliant and it's a pleasure to watch/listen to rare footage.

Thanks again

[CarylB]

For pity's sake .. I am not "missing out". Nightinr, you asked a question dripping with raised eyebrows and incredulity .. I answered. Nor have I suggested Chris does not have either great or rare stuff, doesn't provide something many fans love etc. But it's not compulsory to watch concerts on YT, sitting in front of a computer screen, when I have excellent recall.

This started when you referred to people watching Chris' channel but, according to you, denying it. As I said, not being blessed with second sight, the only way I can tell if people "on here" DO is when they thank or compliment him .. and many do this; the reason I don't is because I am not one of these closet watchers you seem so able to identify.

[CarylB]

Originally Posted by Wario

Caryl I respect doesn't like bootlegs, no matter if meats ok with the nostalgic ones being up or not. I respect that.

Thanks dear Just as I respect you have an understanding with Meat and know now without asking every time what he'll be OK with. And you are right .. you are a polarising character You know I love your zest for what you do .. and am not beyond swatting you gently on the nose at times

On topic I always felt a great and much better title for this album would have been Oh Holy Hell.

I'm sure Hot Holidays is simply the working title Meat has in his head, and IF it sees the light of day on the shelves he will have something quite different on the cover

[letsgotoofar]

Originally Posted by AndrewG

We're all ears buddy.

Alright, here's one: A Snowball's Chance. It references the "hell" aspect without getting inappropriate for a Christmas album, and it manages to be irreverent without being crude whilst still working in some winter imagery. Could even become the title for an original Christmas song (when's the last time one of those has come along?) in the same spirit as the title suggests.

Thoughts?

[rockfenris2005]

It's not the albums that are the problem for me. It's the F###### promotion!

[nightinr]

Originally Posted by rockfenris2005

It's not the albums that are the problem for me. It's the F###### promotion!

It's an interesting point regarding the promotion. Meat worked hard both in the UK and US to promote Braver however he seemed limited to daytime, minority TV channels and radio. Not sure if this is Meat's managements/record company fault or TV execs of the big programmes not willing to have him on anymore?

I think we covered the GATW video shambles on another thread!

I'm no expert on promo- how else could Meat/record company improve the exposure to Braver or potential new albums?

[AndrewG]

Originally Posted by nightinr

I'm no expert on promo- how else could Meat/record company improve the exposure to Braver or potential new albums?

*Puts on criticism cap*

I'm no expert either but to me it seemed the online element was pretty much missing and what was there was badly managed.

Besides Meat and his assistant tweeting and Facebooking themselves there was nothing. Nothing to see on YouTube, nothing decent with regards to a new / nice website.

The clips appeared on an old record company website. The record company doesn't update its own Facebook page either. Then some tracks appeared on Soundcloud and these were never embedded on Meat's own website. A 20 minute job at most with WordPress.

Random mistakes where the music was released on iTunes and then pulled.

In addition the pledge stuff was badly managed and seemed a bit of a weird hindsight money making thing rather than pledging for something that doesn't exist yet (which the platform surely is for), with bizarre excuses about delays of the products and I regret forking out a lot of money on something I still haven't got. If anything the pledge thing should have been dedicated towards a proper GATW video if the record company / other sponsors couldn't be arsed putting up any money.

The online element pretty much seemed to be resorted to selling / making money only rather than using a lot of opportunities (including free tools) to actually tell people about the product.
I bet the negative TV performances publicity helped sales somewhat but this surely wasn't their "expert" approach relying on that.

Shame and I honestly think several of us fans could have done a better job in certain areas (the disastrous video and website etc).

Website is a total joke. I appreciate these things aren't as important as they used to be but that is no excuse. For many searches relating to the album Adje's site comes up first!
The problem then is this and I DO think that THIS type of stuff matters:




If there was a lot of content on the Meat Loaf site about the album that review would have been pushed further down in these type of results for sure.
Notice how the extract on the 4th place is only text that Google can crawl and is actually related to the relating merchandise and not the album itself or its release !
Google is clever enough to put things together knowing this is indeed the new album, that is the official site and that is a related extract. But even 1 paragraph of text about the actual album release on the official site would probably have pulled that result to the 3rd place I reckon.

Damn shame this was not better organised to potentially increase the sales by even a few thousand where possible.

*Takes off criticism cap and waits for dislikes from those who think everyone did an excellent job and everything was done perfectly*

[rockfenris2005]

If I disliked your post, they'd have to come around and put me in a straitjacket.

[nightinr]

Yep all valid points Andrew. The online situation has been a shambles for 20 years. Surprisingly really because Meat seems relatively technolgical advanced for somebody of his age. Surely his management team and Meat himself has to take some responsibility for a terrible website that isn't updated. As for Facebook, twitter I tend to find these are only updated on a regular basis when Meat has something to sell (or am I being too cynical?!)

[Wario]

Originally Posted by CarylB

Thanks dear Just as I respect you have an understanding with Meat and know now without asking every time what he'll be OK with. And you are right .. you are a polarising character You know I love your zest for what you do .. and am not beyond swatting you gently on the nose at times

I'm sure Hot Holidays is simply the working title Meat has in his head, and IF it sees the light of day on the shelves he will have something quite different on the cover

Exactly. Generally anything but 1981, 2007 - present is acceptable.

and yeah, HH always seemed to sound like a temp title.

Doesn't have the creative flair as a final title should.

[AndrewG]

Originally Posted by nightinr

Yep all valid points Andrew. The online situation has been a shambles for 20 years. Surprisingly really because Meat seems relatively technolgical advanced for somebody of his age. Surely his management team and Meat himself has to take some responsibility for a terrible website that isn't updated. As for Facebook, twitter I tend to find these are only updated on a regular basis when Meat has something to sell (or am I being too cynical?!)

Meat is one of the only American artists I know who actually personally responds to FB posts.

Unfortunately usually it is when there are negative comments.
Sometimes however good questions bring up some great insights he happily seems to share which is great.

But I agree it is bizarre that his savvy online presence never resulted into a far more organised creative outpouring of digital media.

His website could easily contain details of all albums with links to iTunes / Amazon (and get a small kickback), all lyrics, all official videos (with a better YT account!) and some news updates (which should never have been deleted since 2006). And this could have been achieved and updated at a small cost.

[Wario]

Originally Posted by AndrewG

Meat is one of the only American artists I know who actually personally responds to FB posts.

Unfortunately usually it is when there are negative comments.
Sometimes however good questions bring up some great insights he happily seems to share which is great.

But I agree it is bizarre that his savvy online presence never resulted into a far more organised creative outpouring of digital media.

His website could easily contain details of all albums with links to iTunes / Amazon (and get a small kickback), all lyrics, all official videos (with a better YT account!) and some news updates (which should never have been deleted since 2006). And this could have been achieved and updated at a small cost.

small correspondence has been made a couple years back about his website and him giving me live exclusive stuff to put up there

nothings ever materialized. i am still open to it and wont charge a staggering amount

[nikox1]

Ill promote hes next album ( if there is one )

[Wario]

Originally Posted by nikox1

Ill promote hes next album ( if there is one )

marketing just needs to be better in general

[rockfenris2005]

Better? O_o

How about next to existent!!

[Cherry.Loaf]

Originally Posted by letsgotoofar

Let's at least agree on this:

...there's got to be a better title than Hot Holidays, right?

I quite liked Paradise by the Christmas tree lights

[Wario]

Originally Posted by AndrewG

*Puts on criticism cap*

I'm no expert either but to me it seemed the online element was pretty much missing and what was there was badly managed.

Besides Meat and his assistant tweeting and Facebooking themselves there was nothing. Nothing to see on YouTube, nothing decent with regards to a new / nice website.

The clips appeared on an old record company website. The record company doesn't update its own Facebook page either. Then some tracks appeared on Soundcloud and these were never embedded on Meat's own website. A 20 minute job at most with WordPress.

Random mistakes where the music was released on iTunes and then pulled.

In addition the pledge stuff was badly managed and seemed a bit of a weird hindsight money making thing rather than pledging for something that doesn't exist yet (which the platform surely is for), with bizarre excuses about delays of the products and I regret forking out a lot of money on something I still haven't got. If anything the pledge thing should have been dedicated towards a proper GATW video if the record company / other sponsors couldn't be arsed putting up any money.

The online element pretty much seemed to be resorted to selling / making money only rather than using a lot of opportunities (including free tools) to actually tell people about the product.
I bet the negative TV performances publicity helped sales somewhat but this surely wasn't their "expert" approach relying on that.

Shame and I honestly think several of us fans could have done a better job in certain areas (the disastrous video and website etc).

Website is a total joke. I appreciate these things aren't as important as they used to be but that is no excuse. For many searches relating to the album Adje's site comes up first!
The problem then is this and I DO think that THIS type of stuff matters:




If there was a lot of content on the Meat Loaf site about the album that review would have been pushed further down in these type of results for sure.
Notice how the extract on the 4th place is only text that Google can crawl and is actually related to the relating merchandise and not the album itself or its release !
Google is clever enough to put things together knowing this is indeed the new album, that is the official site and that is a related extract. But even 1 paragraph of text about the actual album release on the official site would probably have pulled that result to the 3rd place I reckon.

Damn shame this was not better organised to potentially increase the sales by even a few thousand where possible.

*Takes off criticism cap and waits for dislikes from those who think everyone did an excellent job and everything was done perfectly*

Braver has been listed on a lot of worst album lists for 2016

It's sad I don't have much to defend that

I totally see why people hate it.

The more I listen to it the more I dislike it

Now all I really like is GATW, Dirty Job and souvenirs. Don't even care for More anymore