Question to Steinman fans - Page 2

Space Monkey · 07 Jan 2006, 18:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by sinecurea

To a Steinman fan, there's clearly a difference when you listen more closely.

Difference in what? Please elaborate

Pudding · 07 Jan 2006, 22:55

Most Steinfans are loyalists to the song and not necessarily the artist, where quite a lot of Loafers are loyalists to the artist and not necessarily the song. Not wanting to start anything but there are a few Loafers who like anything Meat Loaf sings regardless of quality of song or quality of singing.

Personally speaking I listen to the song, if it's crap then I don't care who sings it or who's wrote it and that's why BBIS and MATLAF are my bottom two Meat Loaf albums.

Pud

PanicLord · 08 Jan 2006, 14:39

What I don't get on Bad For Good is that on some songs Jim's singing is appalling eg Out Of The Frying Pan, and Left In The Dark, but I'm pretty sure it's him on Dance In My Pants, and on that he sounds pretty good. Like a professional singer in fact. If he CAN sing like that - why doesn't he normally?

On Pud's last post, I'm starting to like some of MATLAF - the title song, WATD, PL, KD. Perfectly reasonable rock songs. Still not as good as a Steinsong obviously, or even a Diane Warren, but good driving music. No voice issues either. Nothing will ever stop me loathing Razor's Edge however.

Pudding · 08 Jan 2006, 22:10

Bad For Good is a great album but Jims singing is awful. Rory Dodd in my opinion should have sung all the songs.

MATLAF isn't a bad album, it's just average. The title song is the best on there, Keep Driving, Fallen Angel and Promised Land aren't that bad either. Razor's Edge is probably one of the worse songs Meat Loaf has ever done, closely followed by If You Really Want To.

Pud

Steve6 · 08 Jan 2006, 22:44

The only thing that ruined "BAD FOR GOOD" was the sound quality.
It seemed like a rushed production.

The rumour I heard about Jim and Meat was, when they were preforming live on stage one night Meat fired something across stage and it hit Jim. That marked the downfall.

Also during Meat's early days he had a habit of spitting at the crowd.
Jim was'nt happy with that also, that's why he did'nt preform much live after BOOH.

Meat had gone mad, he did'nt have a voice, and that's why the he fell out with Jim Steinman and his manager.

**The Flying Mouse** · 08 Jan 2006, 23:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve6

The only thing that ruined "BAD FOR GOOD" was the sound quality.
It seemed like a rushed production.

The rumour I heard about Jim and Meat was, when they were preforming live on stage one night Meat fired something across stage and it hit Jim. That marked the downfall.

Also during Meat's early days he had a habit of spitting at the crowd.
Jim was'nt happy with that also, that's why he did'nt preform much live after BOOH.

Meat had gone mad, he did'nt have a voice, and that's why the he fell out with Jim Steinman and his manager.

I actually think the album is pretty good.

Never heard that one about him firing something.Interesting.

I have NEVER heard anybody talk about Meat spitting at an audience.
If this was true, i'd be very suprised at him.
Anyone else ever heard of this?

AndrewG · 09 Jan 2006, 00:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve6

The only thing that ruined "BAD FOR GOOD" was the sound quality.
It seemed like a rushed production.

I actually think the quality is WAyyyy ahead of its time! With some awesome arrangements and a very good recording all round. Remember it's 1981 we're talking about. I certainly think the sound quality of the drums, orchestra, guitar and piano is much more balanced, better mixed and more clear than "Dead Ringer" and even "Bat out of Hell" for that matter. Also the cover is quite something I think.
I also think you can easily "hear"/understand they had a lot more money to spend on this album than they did on "Bat out of Hell". I think if they had managed to record "Bad for Good" with Meat's voice over the songs it would have been quite successful. Probably a mix of this album and the better songs from Dead Ringer is what fans would have died for at that time.

The only negative thing I can say about "Bad for Good" is on the order of the songs, I don't think "Lost Boys" should have followed "Bad for Good" and should have appeared later on on the album (much like Bat 2). I would have preferred this order (using all 10 songs, which is maybe not fair as it was an LP at the time I suppose):

1 Bad for Good
2 Rock and Roll Dreams Come Through
3 Surf's Up
4 American Guitar
5 Stark Raving Love
6 Out of the Frying Pan
7 Dance in My Pants
8 Lost Boys and Golden Girls
9 The Storm (probably a different arrangement Including some softer bits with themes from other songs on the album) Ideally a bit like Prayd Lewd but of course It's All coming back wasn't written at this time.)
10 Left in the Dark (without that darn spoken intro but with an angels singing like intro, very much like the excellent Swedish cover "Lämnad I Mörkret" by Cecilia Vennersten)

Pudding · 09 Jan 2006, 00:56

I've never heard Meat throwing anythin at Jim on stage or Meat spitting into the audience, sounds a liitle far fetched to me. Perhaps there's confusion with Ted Nugent who Meat did a few songs with and Ted was notorious for firing things into the audience.

If steve6 could find the article where he got this info from, it certainly would make interesting reading.

Pud

Steve6 · 10 Jan 2006, 02:14

Are you been serious?

The sound quality on BOOH and DR is a thousand times better than BFG.
They might have had more money to spend but it does'nt show on the album.

Sound quality: 2/10 (As I said it was a rushed production)
Vocals 7/10: (Would have liked to hear Meat do it but Jim did a good job)
Front cover: 10/10 (I would agree a brilliant front cover)
Backing vocals: 3/10 (Did'nt improve the songs in anyway)
Guitar/Piano etc 8/10 (Thought they all sounded good but could have been better had it been recorded right)

Overall rating: 6/10

mikeloaf · 10 Jan 2006, 02:18

Why does this matter so much? It was over 25 years ago! I'm sure ML and JS have moved on along way.

Pudding · 10 Jan 2006, 04:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve6

Sound quality: 2/10 (As I said it was a rushed production)

Rushed production? how do you figure that one out?

Steinman had 4 years to decide how the songs should sound and he's notorious for taking too long in studio because he does take after take after take.

Pud

PanicLord · 10 Jan 2006, 20:39

Correct me if I'm wrong, but most CDs of BOOH and DR and remasters aren't they? I.e. cleaned up? Whereas BFG may not be due to less demand for it? Just a guess, may be completely wrong!

Pudding · 10 Jan 2006, 22:55

If you look at the tracks on Bad For Good, the album has been pretty muched raped of all its songs, so remastering it would be a waste of money. And there's no guarantee's that the songs left won't end up on Bat3

in fact it's a pretty safe bet one of them will be.

1. Bad For Good
2. Lost Boys And Golden Girls - Bat2
3. Love And Death And An American Guitar - 'Wasted Youth' Bat2
4. Stark Raving Love
5. Out Of The Frying Pan (And Into The Fire) - Bat2
6. Surf's Up - Bad Attitude
7. Dance In My Pants
8. Left In The Dark - Barbara Stresand and WTTN
9. Storm, The - Heavily used in Tanz Der Vampire
10. Rock And Roll Dreams Come Through - Bat2

Pud

Jaymze · 13 Jan 2006, 18:04

Also has anyone noticed that Bad For Good sounds a healiver lot like a Springsteen song? I don't know if Steinman intentionally wrote it that way but they deffos sound like Springsteen lyrics.

AndrewG · 13 Jan 2006, 18:35

I think Steinman has always been very inspired by Springsteen. The sax start to "revved up" sounds springsteeny according to me for example. I do think Steinman has taken that inspiration into a more theatrical persective.

Space Monkey · 15 Jan 2006, 22:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pudding

If you look at the tracks on Bad For Good, the album has been pretty muched raped of all its songs, so remastering it would be a waste of money. And there's no guarantee's that the songs left won't end up on Bat3

in fact it's a pretty safe bet one of them will be.

1. Bad For Good
2. Lost Boys And Golden Girls - Bat2
3. Love And Death And An American Guitar - 'Wasted Youth' Bat2
4. Stark Raving Love
5. Out Of The Frying Pan (And Into The Fire) - Bat2
6. Surf's Up - Bad Attitude
7. Dance In My Pants
8. Left In The Dark - Barbara Stresand and WTTN
9. Storm, The - Heavily used in Tanz Der Vampire
10. Rock And Roll Dreams Come Through - Bat2

Pud

Which particular song would you like to see on Bat 3? Personally, I'd LOVE to see the title track re-done.

Fire Ball · 16 Jan 2006, 01:52

You are all partly right, I walked out because of want was going on ! With Jim, Roy, and Todd.... After I walked out I had a breakdown, which was Jan of 79, in Nov of 78 I was singing just fine, Then CBS and Sonenberg Said I would never come back and told Jim he didn't need me , so in Dec of 79 Jim came to me and said he would write another record and he wanted" bad for good".
Rory did a lot of singing including R&R DREAMS ,lost boys, amnong other things.
It was Stienman who sued me, It was todd who was the real genius behind Bat 1, yes ,Jim wrote, I sang but is was Todd who made it a record. If you only listen to the Stienman camp everybody but Jim is wrong !!! My 2 cents
Meat

ChloeLee88 · 16 Jan 2006, 01:54

wow stienman sued you!!!!
Anyway thanks for clearing this thread up!
Chloe

Caelan · 16 Jan 2006, 01:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fire Ball

You are all partly right, I walked out because of want was going on ! With Jim, Roy, and Todd.... After I walked out I had a breakdown, which was Jan of 79, in Nov of 78 I was singing just fine, Then CBS and Sonenberg Said I would never come back and told Jim he didn't need me , so in Dec of 79 Jim came to me and said he would write another record and he wanted" bad for good".
Rory did a lot of singing including R&R DREAMS ,lost boys, amnong other things.
It was Stienman who sued me, It was todd who was the real genius behind Bat 1, yes ,Jim wrote, I sang but is was Todd who made it a record. If you only listen to the Stienman camp everybody but Jim is wrong !!! My 2 cents
Meat

Thanks Meat for explaining ..

AndrewG · 16 Jan 2006, 01:57

Thanks Meat.

Caelan · 16 Jan 2006, 01:58

It really is confusing around here sometimes with a lot of people knowing pieces..or thinking they know what happend..

ChrisBelfast · 16 Jan 2006, 01:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fire Ball

,I sang but is was Todd who made it a record.

Would you like to do further work with him .... good to see him in the Bat 3 recording photos

L96 · 16 Jan 2006, 01:59

Ancient history though, right?

I got sued by a boyfriend once. That kills a relationship, I tell you...

Steve6 · 16 Jan 2006, 02:02

You sang BAD FOR GOOD live Meat did'nt you? I heard it somewhere.

AndrewG · 16 Jan 2006, 02:03

Yeah Steve6 he sang it during the 1988 uk tour as far as I know. Sounded pretty good to me.

13 Jan 2006, 18:04	#39
Jaymze Super Loafer Join Date: 10.12.2003 Location: Sunderland Posts: 265	B4g Also has anyone noticed that Bad For Good sounds a healiver lot like a Springsteen song? I don't know if Steinman intentionally wrote it that way but they deffos sound like Springsteen lyrics.

16 Jan 2006, 01:52	#42
Fire Ball Himself Join Date: 05.02.2003 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 1,044	??????? You are all partly right, I walked out because of want was going on ! With Jim, Roy, and Todd.... After I walked out I had a breakdown, which was Jan of 79, in Nov of 78 I was singing just fine, Then CBS and Sonenberg Said I would never come back and told Jim he didn't need me , so in Dec of 79 Jim came to me and said he would write another record and he wanted" bad for good". Rory did a lot of singing including R&R DREAMS ,lost boys, amnong other things. It was Stienman who sued me, It was todd who was the real genius behind Bat 1, yes ,Jim wrote, I sang but is was Todd who made it a record. If you only listen to the Stienman camp everybody but Jim is wrong !!! My 2 cents Meat

07 Jan 2006, 22:55	#27
Pudding I'm A Prize Fight Lover... Join Date: 22.10.2003 Location: New Zealand Posts: 5,532	Most Steinfans are loyalists to the song and not necessarily the artist, where quite a lot of Loafers are loyalists to the artist and not necessarily the song. Not wanting to start anything but there are a few Loafers who like anything Meat Loaf sings regardless of quality of song or quality of singing. Personally speaking I listen to the song, if it's crap then I don't care who sings it or who's wrote it and that's why BBIS and MATLAF are my bottom two Meat Loaf albums. Pud

08 Jan 2006, 14:39	#28
PanicLord Mega Loafer Join Date: 18.06.2003 Location: At The End Of The Line Posts: 2,651	What I don't get on Bad For Good is that on some songs Jim's singing is appalling eg Out Of The Frying Pan, and Left In The Dark, but I'm pretty sure it's him on Dance In My Pants, and on that he sounds pretty good. Like a professional singer in fact. If he CAN sing like that - why doesn't he normally? On Pud's last post, I'm starting to like some of MATLAF - the title song, WATD, PL, KD. Perfectly reasonable rock songs. Still not as good as a Steinsong obviously, or even a Diane Warren, but good driving music. No voice issues either. Nothing will ever stop me loathing Razor's Edge however.

08 Jan 2006, 22:10	#29
Pudding I'm A Prize Fight Lover... Join Date: 22.10.2003 Location: New Zealand Posts: 5,532	Bad For Good is a great album but Jims singing is awful. Rory Dodd in my opinion should have sung all the songs. MATLAF isn't a bad album, it's just average. The title song is the best on there, Keep Driving, Fallen Angel and Promised Land aren't that bad either. Razor's Edge is probably one of the worse songs Meat Loaf has ever done, closely followed by If You Really Want To. Pud

08 Jan 2006, 22:44	#30
Steve6 Batman Join Date: 28.11.2005 Location: Ireland Posts: 1,690	The only thing that ruined "BAD FOR GOOD" was the sound quality. It seemed like a rushed production. The rumour I heard about Jim and Meat was, when they were preforming live on stage one night Meat fired something across stage and it hit Jim. That marked the downfall. Also during Meat's early days he had a habit of spitting at the crowd. Jim was'nt happy with that also, that's why he did'nt preform much live after BOOH. Meat had gone mad, he did'nt have a voice, and that's why the he fell out with Jim Steinman and his manager.

09 Jan 2006, 00:56	#33
Pudding I'm A Prize Fight Lover... Join Date: 22.10.2003 Location: New Zealand Posts: 5,532	I've never heard Meat throwing anythin at Jim on stage or Meat spitting into the audience, sounds a liitle far fetched to me. Perhaps there's confusion with Ted Nugent who Meat did a few songs with and Ted was notorious for firing things into the audience. If steve6 could find the article where he got this info from, it certainly would make interesting reading. Pud

10 Jan 2006, 02:14	#34
Steve6 Batman Join Date: 28.11.2005 Location: Ireland Posts: 1,690	Are you been serious? The sound quality on BOOH and DR is a thousand times better than BFG. They might have had more money to spend but it does'nt show on the album. Sound quality: 2/10 (As I said it was a rushed production) Vocals 7/10: (Would have liked to hear Meat do it but Jim did a good job) Front cover: 10/10 (I would agree a brilliant front cover) Backing vocals: 3/10 (Did'nt improve the songs in anyway) Guitar/Piano etc 8/10 (Thought they all sounded good but could have been better had it been recorded right) Overall rating: 6/10

10 Jan 2006, 02:18	#35
mikeloaf Super Loafer Join Date: 06.11.2005 Location: England UK Posts: 708	Why does this matter so much? It was over 25 years ago! I'm sure ML and JS have moved on along way.

10 Jan 2006, 20:39	#37
PanicLord Mega Loafer Join Date: 18.06.2003 Location: At The End Of The Line Posts: 2,651	Correct me if I'm wrong, but most CDs of BOOH and DR and remasters aren't they? I.e. cleaned up? Whereas BFG may not be due to less demand for it? Just a guess, may be completely wrong!

10 Jan 2006, 22:55	#38
Pudding I'm A Prize Fight Lover... Join Date: 22.10.2003 Location: New Zealand Posts: 5,532	If you look at the tracks on Bad For Good, the album has been pretty muched raped of all its songs, so remastering it would be a waste of money. And there's no guarantee's that the songs left won't end up on Bat3 in fact it's a pretty safe bet one of them will be. 1. Bad For Good 2. Lost Boys And Golden Girls - Bat2 3. Love And Death And An American Guitar - 'Wasted Youth' Bat2 4. Stark Raving Love 5. Out Of The Frying Pan (And Into The Fire) - Bat2 6. Surf's Up - Bad Attitude 7. Dance In My Pants 8. Left In The Dark - Barbara Stresand and WTTN 9. Storm, The - Heavily used in Tanz Der Vampire 10. Rock And Roll Dreams Come Through - Bat2 Pud

13 Jan 2006, 18:35	#40
AndrewG I hope your salmon sucks! Join Date: 18.01.2004 Location: Northamptonshire Posts: 7,077	I think Steinman has always been very inspired by Springsteen. The sax start to "revved up" sounds springsteeny according to me for example. I do think Steinman has taken that inspiration into a more theatrical persective.

16 Jan 2006, 01:54	#43
ChloeLee88 Super Loafer Join Date: 27.07.2005 Location: Bolton, Greater Manchester Posts: 666	wow stienman sued you!!!! Anyway thanks for clearing this thread up! Chloe

16 Jan 2006, 01:57	#45
AndrewG I hope your salmon sucks! Join Date: 18.01.2004 Location: Northamptonshire Posts: 7,077	Thanks Meat.

16 Jan 2006, 01:58	#46
Caelan life is one big adventure Join Date: 23.06.2005 Location: some town in Alberta called Leduc Posts: 5,550	It really is confusing around here sometimes with a lot of people knowing pieces..or thinking they know what happend..

16 Jan 2006, 01:59	#48
L96 Inaugural goldfish winner Join Date: 04.07.2005 Location: In a handbasket. Believe me, for someone my height, it's hell... Posts: 2,373	Ancient history though, right? I got sued by a boyfriend once. That kills a relationship, I tell you...

16 Jan 2006, 02:02	#49
Steve6 Batman Join Date: 28.11.2005 Location: Ireland Posts: 1,690	You sang BAD FOR GOOD live Meat did'nt you? I heard it somewhere.

16 Jan 2006, 02:03	#50
AndrewG I hope your salmon sucks! Join Date: 18.01.2004 Location: Northamptonshire Posts: 7,077	Yeah Steve6 he sang it during the 1988 uk tour as far as I know. Sounded pretty good to me.