Should Meat Loaf play at Donald Trump's Inauguration Ceremony?

[AndrewG]

Originally Posted by loaferman61

This was an epic troll such as legends are made of. Amazing how many supposedly "credible" people totally fell for it. Believing the mainstream media doesn't report "fake news" is amazing. I'm still glad Meat stayed away for his health (doubt he was asked formally).

Indeed.
Going by what Meat wrote on Facebook recently, having had spinal fusion, he wouldn't be able to do this regardless.

But even if he were physically fit, I'd hate to see him being torn down by the media and its followers based on what they would see as association and agreement of each and every single one of Trump's words, statements and policies rather than just a song performance at a celebration.

Regarding the fake news thing, it wouldn't surprise me if some of the stuff is simply released by Trump's associates themselves to show how stupid the media now are and to perhaps incentivise them to sort themselves out.

[AndrewG]

CNN is just trash now. I used to think Fox News was propaganda, but it is clearly the other way around now.

Fox News: "TRUMP PRESS CONFERENCE
Announces plan to hand control
of business empire to his sons; names Veterans Affairs nominee"

CNN "I think it was Russia"

Which headline matters to the American people? The one informing people what happened (ie press conference) and a probable change in policy for a large group of people (veterans affairs nominee) or the one trying to stir up shit with a foreign country.
I have websites that were hacked by what appeared to be Russian hackers too (attempts). That doesn't mean that I think all Russians are bad people or that Vladimir Putin wants to take down my tiny empire. Come on now CNN!

Pathetic. Rightfully silenced during the press conference. CNN deserve to have their White House credentials taken away.

A news organisation that happily reposts fake articles coming from a click bait organisation or just runs with out of context propaganda is not a news organisation imo.
The fact that comments have been disabled on CNN shows also there is no room for criticism within their organisation. Dangerous and stupid. I do hope they can reform but I doubt it.

[tonyloaf]

He won't play

[proctorloaf]

NO!

[Julie in the rv mirror]

Originally Posted by loaferman61

This was an epic troll such as legends are made of. Amazing how many supposedly "credible" people totally fell for it. Believing the mainstream media doesn't report "fake news" is amazing.

Yeah, except there isn't much evidence that 4chan perpetrated the troll, either, except for 4chan saying they did. Supposedly, those documents had been circulating for months, allowing for the possibility that someone came across them and posted as such on 4chan, as opposed to the other way around.

Originally Posted by AndrewG

Which headline matters to the American people? The one informing people what happened (ie press conference) and a probable change in policy for a large group of people (veterans affairs nominee) or the one trying to stir up shit with a foreign country.

What really matters is what didn't happen, in that he didn't answer the question, which was whether anyone from his organization had any dealings with the Russians prior to the election. Instead, he shut down one reporter (laughable for him to call anyone "rude"), and deflected when asked a similar question by a different reporter. If he had any guts and/or nothing to hide, he would have answered the question.

Originally Posted by AndrewG

Pathetic. Rightfully silenced during the press conference. CNN deserve to have their White House credentials taken away.

No, what's pathetic is the way he spinelessly labelled CNN as "fake news" (social media buzzword of the day) to avoid answering a serious allegation. He's going to need to come up with a new strategy going forward, because he's not going to keep getting away with it. This scandal is just getting started, and he's not even in office yet.

[AndrewG]

Originally Posted by Julie in the rv mirror

What really matters is what didn't happen, in that he didn't answer the question, which was whether anyone from his organization had any dealings with the Russians prior to the election. Instead, he shut down one reporter (laughable for him to call anyone "rude"), and deflected when asked a similar question by a different reporter. If he had any guts and/or nothing to hide, he would have answered the question.

I disagree with the notion that he doesn't have guts. I find it quite a weak argument. He could have just retired with his billions in the bank and avoided all this so called outrage. I personally think that takes far less guts than what he is doing now. I believe Meat Loaf when he calls Trump a smart guy. If Trump had very dodgy dealings to hide beyond his cheeky mouth I doubt he would have run for presidency. Hillary was inside the political sphere for decades and consumed by it and couldn't do anything else. Julian Assange's assessment of her was very interesting to hear.

Originally Posted by Julie in the rv mirror

No, what's pathetic is the way he spinelessly labelled CNN as "fake news" (social media buzzword of the day) to avoid answering a serious allegation. He's going to need to come up with a new strategy going forward, because he's not going to keep getting away with it. This scandal is just getting started, and he's not even in office yet.

CNN and all the American intelligence agencies have been made into political footballs over the last few decades. The liberals pretty much owned them for a long time. I think this is now going to change. And rightfully so I would say. This is simply a last ditch attempt by the liberal establishment (in collusion with Ted Turner's news network and indeed the intelligence agencies) at overturning the inevitable. You only have to look at the long list of things that have been tried to see it is part of... indeed a list. Pussygate, Russia collusion, Russia hacking, Jill Stein recount bollox only in narrow states that Trump won (even though she was initially favouring Trump over Hillary), calling the electors to go against Trump, Meryl Streep shite, final bizarre accusations and inevitable protests on inauguration day. Imagine if all that wasted energy had been put to some good use like people take some healthy dance lessons or trying to play an instrument or whatever.

[Adje]

Originally Posted by AndrewG

I believe Meat Loaf when he calls Trump a smart guy.

In all honestly, what is the value to that? Ted Bundy was a very smart person, so was that German guy who started WW2. Smart is not the issue. What you do with that intelligence is what matters. And Trump, as far as I looked into matters, has used his smartness to get out of lawsuits, going bankrupt enough times to be able to let others care for the misery while he could start over again, denying truth, lying to almost everyone around and getting away with it. That, I must admit is very clever. Indeed a very smart guy.

I am not going to respond any further on the issue but I want to point out following

Trump is, and only if you are ignorant you will deny, a narcissistic person. Everything Trump does has one purpose: Trump.

The only reason Trump went for the Presidency is the title PRESIDENT Trump.

I almost feel sorry for the people who believe otherwise. The coming months, years there might be a lot of skeletons coming out of his closet although Trump has a history of dodging the bullet by throwing money (and now that he is President I am sure many favours) around.

And I didn't expect Trump fans to be bigger whiners than the Clinton people. But wow. Trump has lied his entire campagn, insulted people of different backgrounds and all the Trump people did was applaude him for it. Now that it's the other way around (and I am curious what truth lies behind the accusations) the Trumpies are crying like little bitches because it is sooooo unnnn-faaaaiiirrrrrr.

Election is over and this is what the outcome is. Move on I say. But when I see people defend one of the most immoral persons on this globe for being handled immorally I just can shake my head.

Anyway, just to answer to OP. Meat Loaf is not able to persorm in any form for any event. So no. If he was healthy, should he do it? It is simple, it is his decision. And I hope it is based on what he believes in. I think Trump is a threat for society, equality and morality, so I would not perform. If you don't see it my way or don't have an issue with these points, knock yourself out.

[lorenzoduke]

Originally Posted by CarylB

You don't have to support the President to appear at an inauguration .. however this time it has starkly divided a nation, and I am not in the least surprised that the vast majority of artists don't want to touch it with a bargepole, because of the effect it would have on their fans .. people are not very good at allowing their idols to have opinions that differ to theirs.

Actually I'd say - and keep in mind I do so from down here among the 'people', the wallowing silly ignorant pigs of fandom - that the problem we actually have is entertainer's selling out the goodwill they've earned from fans for producing music and entertainment in order to take a pious and patronising position of using said goodwill, fame and name in order to suggest to people which way to vote. Musicians are musicians and we like them for their music. A person using these things - of which their fanbase is certainly a part of building - to endorse a candidate one year and then say 'my political beliefs are none of your business' the next seems a little disingenuous. If someone wants to keep their political beliefs private, seems to me drawing attention to them in a hugely public way might be an ill advised move.

That said, the McCain incident seems to have been largely and mercifully forgotten and I doubt Meat will appear at the inauguration unless for some reason he's grown tired of royalty checks and curious what a few thousand copies of Bat Out Of Hell would look like on a bonfire.

[lorenzoduke]

Originally Posted by nightinr

You know what they say..... "there is no such thing as bad publicity"

Australian sales of recent albums would seem to suggest otherwise.

[Julie in the rv mirror]

Originally Posted by AndrewG

He could have just retired with his billions in the bank and avoided all this so called outrage.

He could have, but I think he enjoys running his empire too much for that. And honestly, I don't find anything wrong with that. But then he shouldn't have run for President, which, contrary to his megalomaniacal ravings, is a full-time job in itself. He's deluded if he actually thinks people are gullible enough (well, maybe some are) to believe that he won't discuss his business dealings with his sons. And, while it might be perfectly legal for him to simply put them in charge, it's not very ethical.

Personally, I don't think he ever really believed he could actually win, he just hated the Clintons that much.

As I said in my previous post, this is not going to just go away, and he's not going to get very far by constantly attacking the media, however right or wrong they might be.

Originally Posted by Adje

Trump is, and only if you are ignorant you will deny, a narcissistic person. Everything Trump does has one purpose: Trump.

The only reason Trump went for the Presidency is the title PRESIDENT Trump.

I almost feel sorry for the people who believe otherwise.

Adje, I think your entire post was well-said, but especially this. Even if someone agrees with his policies, I don't understand how people can deny that his behavior isn't normal. His presidency is bound to implode at some point, I just hope too much damage isn't done before then.

[Julie in the rv mirror]

Originally Posted by lorenzoduke

Actually I'd say - and keep in mind I do so from down here among the 'people', the wallowing silly ignorant pigs of fandom - that the problem we actually have is entertainer's selling out the goodwill they've earned from fans for producing music and entertainment in order to take a pious and patronising position of using said goodwill, fame and name in order to suggest to people which way to vote. Musicians are musicians and we like them for their music. A person using these things - of which their fanbase is certainly a part of building - to endorse a candidate one year and then say 'my political beliefs are none of your business' the next seems a little disingenuous. If someone wants to keep their political beliefs private, seems to me drawing attention to them in a hugely public way might be an ill advised move.

I know this isn't exactly the same thing you're referring to, but in general terms, do you think artists shouldn't speak out (including through their music) when they perceive injustice, just because some portion of their fanbase won't agree? Music in particular, IMO, can be an effective form of protest. I think it's a slippery slope to try to silence artists from speaking out.

[AndrewG]

Originally Posted by Julie in the rv mirror

He's deluded if he actually thinks people are gullible enough (well, maybe some are) to believe that he won't discuss his business dealings with his sons. And, while it might be perfectly legal for him to simply put them in charge, it's not very ethical.

The point is the media does not care about that fact or scrutinises this even though the press event was supposed to be about exactly that handover indeed. Instead they are going after another wild goose chase in my opinion. Perhaps it is helping Trump how the media are behaving. Buzz Feed is a load of clickbait crap. There is too much of this in the media now. "LOOK AT THIS" etc... rather than working on scrutinising important policies and deals.

Originally Posted by Julie in the rv mirror

Personally, I don't think he ever really believed he could actually win, he just hated the Clintons that much.

I thought this at one point but several things he said and policies he ran on went against exactly that. He could have run on a far more watered down ticket such as Romney did. He needed the controversy to win and he admitted that helped several times and he seems to believe this controversy to some extent is what is needed to help the USA. The Mexico wall thing to me doesn't sound crazy even if it is perceived as "controversial". Stronger borders would be needed if you don't want California to become part of Mexico over the next 50 years. People such as the pope can say "We should build bridges now" all they want. But I do not see them tearing down the walls of the Vatican or people leaving their front doors open at night etc.

Originally Posted by Julie in the rv mirror

His presidency is bound to implode at some point, I just hope too much damage isn't done before then.

I reckon in less than 4 years you will get to do this all again with Trump and perhaps Bill De Blasio or Elizabeth Warren or so as Democrat candidate.

[AndrewG]

Originally Posted by Adje

And I didn't expect Trump fans to be bigger whiners than the Clinton people. But wow. Trump has lied his entire campagn, insulted people of different backgrounds and all the Trump people did was applaude him for it. Now that it's the other way around (and I am curious what truth lies behind the accusations) the Trumpies are crying like little bitches because it is sooooo unnnn-faaaaiiirrrrrr.

It would be unfortunate if the new president to be would be involved in a string of affairs that are illegal. But if he is indeed he should be charged and dealt with accordingly. I wouldn't personally shed a tear at all over this.
I do hope however that you would also have reacted negatively if Hillary won and more information regarding her dodgy email deletion or dodgy Clinton Foundation stuff etc had come to light and would most likely have been pardoned by Obama.

Originally Posted by Adje

Election is over and this is what the outcome is. Move on I say. But when I see people defend one of the most immoral persons on this globe for being handled immorally I just can shake my head.

I think you will be ending up with a concussion for every person you disagree with then.

[lorenzoduke]

Originally Posted by Julie in the rv mirror

I know this isn't exactly the same thing you're referring to, but in general terms, do you think artists shouldn't speak out (including through their music) when they perceive injustice, just because some portion of their fanbase won't agree? Music in particular, IMO, can be an effective form of protest. I think it's a slippery slope to try to silence artists from speaking out.

What injustice was McCain trying to address exactly? The fact that he only had one elevator for his cars? I jest.

No, if a musician wants to use their position to trumpet their political stance they're welcome to go for it. They're also welcome to face the consequences and their fans are under no obligation to like it. It's the idea that certain people should be given a platform where they are beyond reproach - where they can stand up and say 'hey fans! Look where I am! Look who I'm singing for! Vote for this guy!' and we all have to go 'oh, well, crumbs, I shouldn't say anything negative about that because I might offend the person who just asked for my attention".

I don't think anyone on the planet has the right to be deliberately divisive, deliberately air their views and then be immune to any responses that are less than positive. Luckily very few people think that's true. Very few.

To get back to your original point, I don't think politics and rock n' roll mix and I don't enjoy overtly political artists but that's of course just personal preference.

[Adje]

Originally Posted by AndrewG

It would be unfortunate if the new president to be would be involved in a string of affairs that are illegal. But if he is indeed he should be charged and dealt with accordingly. I wouldn't personally shed a tear at all over this.
I do hope however that you would also have reacted negatively if Hillary won and more information regarding her dodgy email deletion or dodgy Clinton Foundation stuff etc had come to light and would most likely have been pardoned by Obama.

I like you so I am breaking my word and reply one more time.

You are missing a valuable point here, I think. I don't think many people disagree that Trump is a narcissistic person. And everybody knows how emotional and unfundamentally he reacts to news regarding himself. And nobody seems to be able to tame him. So if there is blackmail-worthy information out there (I have no clue if any of the leaked info contains any truth to it), you should worry. Because Trump will do anything to protect himself. And when a person like that get's pushed in a corner he is the most likely to agree to, whatever demands.

I am not saying that this info exists, but I rather have Hillary Clinton being blackmailed as a President than Donald Trump. From Hillary I am 80+% certain she won't put the safety of her country on the line to keep it under wraps. With Trump I am not even 5% sure. So yes, I want it out there. Bogus info and real private info.

And you must know that I have been negative about Clinton, even during election. I think the Clintons are corrupt, I do believe she has her own agenda but I also have no doubts that, in her own way, she wanted to do, what she believes, is best for the country.

With Trump, and the last months after the election have not comforted me whatsoever, I don't think he thinks on behalf of the people of his country but on behalf of himself. If the history of mankind has learned us anything at all it is that those people are the most dangerous. Especially when they feel their backs are put against a wall.

Originally Posted by AndrewG

I think you will be ending up with a concussion for every person you disagree with then.

Ya, but I meant the people I know and respect. Luckily not many of them go there -people defending one of the most immoral persons on this globe for being handled immorally-

Listen I don't know how Trump will do as a President. But I am pretty sure how he reacts in stress situations. I know how easy he sacrifises people for his own benefit. I know how many of his businesses went bankrupt, how many of his projects have been -let's say it friendly- indecent and what he does to get out of the mess. He is not the kind of person that cares about the tragedy of others until he knows his own situation is safe.

I saw the names of his advisors and his cabinet. It is anything but comforting. I know the values I have to life, and this man doesn't share any of mine. So I am worried. He has a short fuse and it is the most unpredictable person to ever set food at a major position, during my lifetime of 44 years.

Anyway Andrew, this is my last post on the matter. I think Trump is a mistake. I think nothing good will come from it and I hope not too many bad things will lead from it. But voters put their hope up on a populist. And that has never been a smart choise in the past. So let's just pray the past doesn't catch up on us.

[Julie in the rv mirror]

Originally Posted by AndrewG

The point is the media does not care about that fact or scrutinises this even though the press event was supposed to be about exactly that handover indeed. Instead they are going after another wild goose chase in my opinion.

Oh, they care, and they'll address it, but the fact is that the allegations over Russian involvement is a much more serious issue at the moment, and they had to strike while the iron was hot. I'm sure it's no coincidence that the story became public the night before the press conference was to take place.

And this isn't only about the lurid sex allegations; there is information coming out that he might have received money from the Kremlin through his associates, and/or enlisted Russian assistance to obtain the information that was later used against Hillary.

Buzz Feed is a load of clickbait crap.

Of course it is! Trump should know this (although with his obsession with social media, I'm not really that sure), so his trying to conflate what they reported with what CNN reported (which was not exactly the same thing) is a diversionary tactic that might confuse some people.

CNN did not report the details of the dossier because it couldn't be verified; they only reported that Trump was briefed on it's existence, which he denies. Interestingly, because Buzz Feed is clickbait crap, they aren't held to the same standards of journalism, thus would be the perfect outlet for such type of information (were there any truth to it) to come to light. (Recall incidents where The National Enquirer broke stories that later turned out to be true.)

I'd also argue that Trump brought this on himself. I recall weeks ago him stating that he didn't need intelligence briefings because he was too smart for all that; now he's claiming that he wasn't informed.

I reckon in less than 4 years you will get to do this all again with Trump and perhaps Bill De Blasio or Elizabeth Warren or so as Democrat candidate.

I really hope not, because I don't think I could go through all of this again!

Originally Posted by AndrewG

It would be unfortunate if the new president to be would be involved in a string of affairs that are illegal. But if he is indeed he should be charged and dealt with accordingly. I wouldn't personally shed a tear at all over this.
I do hope however that you would also have reacted negatively if Hillary won and more information regarding her dodgy email deletion or dodgy Clinton Foundation stuff etc had come to light and would most likely have been pardoned by Obama.

The Department of Justice has announced that they will be investigating the FBI in regards to the handling of the Clinton e-mail situation and how it was again brought to light right before the election (contrary to policy). There is evidence that the director was aware that Trump was being investigated in regards to possible involvement with the Russians and didn't make the information public prior to the election (obviously). I think that's information the voters had a right to know.

[stretch37]

Originally Posted by Adje

I like you so I am breaking my word and reply one more time.

You are missing a valuable point here, I think. I don't think many people disagree that Trump is a narcissistic person. And everybody knows how emotional and unfundamentally he reacts to news regarding himself. And nobody seems to be able to tame him. So if there is blackmail-worthy information out there (I have no clue if any of the leaked info contains any truth to it), you should worry. Because Trump will do anything to protect himself. And when a person like that get's pushed in a corner he is the most likely to agree to, whatever demands.

I am not saying that this info exists, but I rather have Hillary Clinton being blackmailed as a President than Donald Trump. From Hillary I am 80+% certain she won't put the safety of her country on the line to keep it under wraps. With Trump I am not even 5% sure. So yes, I want it out there. Bogus info and real private info.

And you must know that I have been negative about Clinton, even during election. I think the Clintons are corrupt, I do believe she has her own agenda but I also have no doubts that, in her own way, she wanted to do, what she believes, is best for the country.

With Trump, and the last months after the election have not comforted me whatsoever, I don't think he thinks on behalf of the people of his country but on behalf of himself. If the history of mankind has learned us anything at all it is that those people are the most dangerous. Especially when they feel their backs are put against a wall.


Ya, but I meant the people I know and respect. Luckily not many of them go there -people defending one of the most immoral persons on this globe for being handled immorally-

Listen I don't know how Trump will do as a President. But I am pretty sure how he reacts in stress situations. I know how easy he sacrifises people for his own benefit. I know how many of his businesses went bankrupt, how many of his projects have been -let's say it friendly- indecent and what he does to get out of the mess. He is not the kind of person that cares about the tragedy of others until he knows his own situation is safe.

I saw the names of his advisors and his cabinet. It is anything but comforting. I know the values I have to life, and this man doesn't share any of mine. So I am worried. He has a short fuse and it is the most unpredictable person to ever set food at a major position, during my lifetime of 44 years.

Anyway Andrew, this is my last post on the matter. I think Trump is a mistake. I think nothing good will come from it and I hope not too many bad things will lead from it. But voters put their hope up on a populist. And that has never been a smart choise in the past. So let's just pray the past doesn't catch up on us.

Hands down, best thing I have read on Trump vs Hilary in months. This actually made me somewhat relieved. After watching some video from people in other countries describing the situation, and reading this, I am relieved that others can see this situation with clarity. At least many, many people can, even if the US voters could not avoid this outcome in 2016...

Bravo Ad.

[Julie in the rv mirror]

Originally Posted by lorenzoduke

What injustice was McCain trying to address exactly? The fact that he only had one elevator for his cars? I jest.

No, if a musician wants to use their position to trumpet their political stance they're welcome to go for it. They're also welcome to face the consequences and their fans are under no obligation to like it. It's the idea that certain people should be given a platform where they are beyond reproach - where they can stand up and say 'hey fans! Look where I am! Look who I'm singing for! Vote for this guy!' and we all have to go 'oh, well, crumbs, I shouldn't say anything negative about that because I might offend the person who just asked for my attention".

I don't think anyone on the planet has the right to be deliberately divisive, deliberately air their views and then be immune to any responses that are less than positive. Luckily very few people think that's true. Very few.

To get back to your original point, I don't think politics and rock n' roll mix and I don't enjoy overtly political artists but that's of course just personal preference.

Thank you for answering honestly. I wasn't suggesting (nor do I think that you thought I was) that artists should be immune from criticism for speaking out. I do, however disagree with those who say they should just "shut up and sing".

[AndyK]

There is an argument that Trump shouldn't even be at the forthcoming inauguration...

End if the day it's a political ceremony. I don't believe that any celebrity should be performing and therefore turning it into an entertainment show. (I'm trying to avoid using the phrase political circus even though to me and my beliefs it does seem to be turning into one)

To draw a parallel, it's like One Direction performing at the state opening of parliament just after the Queen's Speech. *shudder*

[CarylB]

Originally Posted by lorenzoduke

Actually I'd say - and keep in mind I do so from down here among the 'people', the wallowing silly ignorant pigs of fandom - that the problem we actually have is entertainer's selling out the goodwill they've earned from fans for producing music and entertainment in order to take a pious and patronising position of using said goodwill, fame and name in order to suggest to people which way to vote. Musicians are musicians and we like them for their music. A person using these things - of which their fanbase is certainly a part of building - to endorse a candidate one year and then say 'my political beliefs are none of your business' the next seems a little disingenuous. If someone wants to keep their political beliefs private, seems to me drawing attention to them in a hugely public way might be an ill advised move.

Yes, that would be disengenuous, although Meat's stance was that he had a right to hold whatever belief he had back then (which is right imo), and on this occasion has simply avoided comment. Also, to be fair, he agreed on that occasion (I think the only occasion he has ever appeared at a rally, rather than an inauguration which is business rather than support) in return for a private meeting with the candidate to explore his concerns and the latter's intentions away from public statements

No, if a musician wants to use their position to trumpet their political stance they're welcome to go for it. They're also welcome to face the consequences and their fans are under no obligation to like it. It's the idea that certain people should be given a platform where they are beyond reproach - where they can stand up and say 'hey fans! Look where I am! Look who I'm singing for! Vote for this guy!' and we all have to go 'oh, well, crumbs, I shouldn't say anything negative about that because I might offend the person who just asked for my attention".

I don't think anyone on the planet has the right to be deliberately divisive, deliberately air their views and then be immune to any responses that are less than positive. Luckily very few people think that's true. Very few.

I agree .. although I think they should have to face reasoned argument rather than punishing hatred. I have given reasoned argument to people I know who support Trump; I do not vilify them as human beings, nor wiped them from my contact list. Had Meat publicly supported or endorsed Trump I would have been disappointed, I would perhaps have argued .. but that would not to me diminish the value of his work, and I would not have threatened to burn his albums, nor called him vile names. Artists, like anyone else, have a right to hold and express a view. We applaud them when they do this to draw attention to the plight of those we can all agree are in desperate need, to raise funding. I don't think we can reasonably heap hatred on them if their concern for their country's future inspires them to speak out, even if they are not on the side we favour, although they should be aware that they may well disappoint, even disaffect some of their fans.

You say you don't think rock and roll and politics mix. To me it's not so much whether they mix or not; everyone has the right to speak out on what they believe in, and like Julie I disagree with those who say they should just "shut up and sing"; but each has to accept the potential fall-out and make a wise judgement based on probabilities. I think one needs to be able to spot the contents of the chalice proffered. McCain's proved somewhat bitter .. this inaugural one is heavily poisoned.

[CarylB]

Adje, I agree with everything in your last post. I won't quote it all again, save this

With Trump, and the last months after the election have not comforted me whatsoever, I don't think he thinks on behalf of the people of his country but on behalf of himself. If the history of mankind has learned us anything at all it is that those people are the most dangerous. Especially when they feel their backs are put against a wall.

Yes. For the first time I find myself wishing I were 30 years older rather than younger, and could say "Oh well .. I'm on borrowed time now, so whatever happens I've had a bloody good innings".

[loaferman61]

Originally Posted by Julie in the rv mirror

No, what's pathetic is the way he spinelessly labelled CNN as "fake news" (social media buzzword of the day) to avoid answering a serious allegation. He's going to need to come up with a new strategy going forward, because he's not going to keep getting away with it. This scandal is just getting started, and he's not even in office yet.

https://youtu.be/BO-TyETzNO8
Link won't embed.

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/01/u...-cnn.html?_r=0

https://youtu.be/hbUQfhFj6ug

[loaferman61]

Originally Posted by AndyK

There is an argument that Trump shouldn't even be at the forthcoming inauguration...

End if the day it's a political ceremony. I don't believe that any celebrity should be performing and therefore turning it into an entertainment show. (I'm trying to avoid using the phrase political circus even though to me and my beliefs it does seem to be turning into one)

To draw a parallel, it's like One Direction performing at the state opening of parliament just after the Queen's Speech. *shudder*

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...-inauguration/

PS Meat did appear at one inauguration fro George Bush in 2001.

[CarylB]

Originally Posted by loaferman61

PS Meat did appear at one inauguration fro George Bush in 2001.

Also for Bill Clinton. He's a professional artist .. both were business

[CarylB]

Originally Posted by Adje

I don't think many people disagree that Trump is a narcissistic person. And everybody knows how emotional and unfundamentally he reacts to news regarding himself. And nobody seems to be able to tame him.

And this. We expect heads of state beyond tinpot dictatorships to have some level of gravitas. How on earth can any semblance of gravitas be achieved by a man with fingers flapping like a duck's ass on Twitter every time he feels criticised or slighted? ..