The true acid test

[Dave]

To Maria:

This is no problem my friend. I am just reflecting what is in my heavy heart at this time.

To "heat":

I look at this as a gathering of Meat Loaf fans who interact with each other and are occasionally graced with Mr. Aday's presence. I realize this is a fan club for the rock and roll legend and Hollywood actor named Meat Loaf. I agree we all appreciate the many projects Mr. Loaf has put his blood, sweat, and tears into, but (and I only speak for msyelf on this matter) I cannot come to a worship alter for Meat Loaf. Behind the might character of Meat Loaf lies a hard-working man named Michael Aday. A man who has an impecable work ethic - much more so than most all of us. I guess I have learned to look and see that Michael Aday is just a man - worthy of equal treatment by all. Sorry that I cannot bow down and worship, but I can appreciate his craft and see him as the absolute best at what he does. Does this make my admiration of Meat Loaf any less than yours? Sorry, but the answer is no. We all love and appreciate Meat Loaf very much, but just in vastly different ways. I can understand the way you view him, and cannot understand why some refuse to extend others the same courtesy.

[The Flying Mouse]

I'm gonna add my 2 cents to this (you never would have guessed would you )
Yes, moderators are human.As human we also have our own lives.
We simply cannot be here 24 hours a day.
I'm lucky in that my work doesn't take up too much of my.It leaves me a lot of free time to spend here.Other mods aren't so lucky this way.
Now, OK, i'm on line a lot, but if something happens on a forum that I don't control there is sweet FA I can do about it.
Likewise, if myself, Andy or an admin is not on line, and there is a problem in Off Topic, there is nothing another moderator can do.
This means for a tighter moderation we would need one moderator for every forum to be on line at any given time.It just can't be done.Unless the membership wants to put their hands in their pockets and pay the entire staff a full time wage for running these forums.No, I didn't think so.

When flaming has begun in the past it's usually beyond all sence by the time a moderator has had the chance to step in.All the mod can do then is do the best they can to bring the conversation back on topic.
As we've seen in the past, that just DOES NOT WORK.How many times has a mod asked for a thread to get back on track, only to have to cut posts to new threads?Which then more often than not end up as personal slanging matches which need to be locked, prompting more complaints

[black dog]

Originally Posted by sultonfan

Very good idea R.

And I whole heartedly agree that there needs to be another option and not 2 extremes. if people are going to take notice of this poll then it has to cater for all. Cause I for one havent voted in it, because it doesnt cover how i feel. I'd hate to think anyone based a desision on this poll when not everyones going to vote in it.

Deb

I agree with you Deb. I want a place that I can say what I feel without worrying that someone is going to insult me for having an opinion. I love Meat Loaf's music and his films but that's as far as it goes. I do not want to change my views to suit others. I have made several friends through this site which show the good it can do and also been helped to deal with, through one of these friends, a personal problem. This is what, I feel, the community is all about. People who come together with a common interest.

[DIZZY DRUMMER]

heat wrote:

I agree that the first option seems to be a sensible way to move foreward, if we can.

However, I really feel that we have to look at the crux of this problem - such as why this was allowed to get this far in the first place - once we have delt with that then we might be able to proceed.

To me, this seems really really simple. This is a MEAT LOAF FAN CLUB, yet people have been allowed to come on here to post derogatory and hurtful remarks about the man we are all supposedly here to enjoy.

When i first came to these forums, i was astounded to think that Meat actually took the time to come on here himself and post. It seemed obvious that this was a place he enjoyed being. Obviously that's not the case any more. And why's that?? It's because some so - called fans seem to take great delight in posting nasty and hurtful things about him. And if that isn't bad enough, the staff sit back and allow it to happen. And even worse still - some Mods actively participate in it.

Yes, i think Meat has every right to be pissed - i know i bl**dy well am - especially when told that i hafta keep smiling sweetly whilst swollowing this shit. It's all well and good the Mods saying 'let us do our jobs' - if they would have done them in the first place then we wouldn't be having this discussion now....

I have only been on the forum a few months and loved the fact that Meat posted here - however - more and more snide remarks, nasty comments about Meat and his performances were creeping in. I tried to put my points across as a fan and execute free speech without being personal about it - what do I get - a nasty pm.

I did not pay my membership money for this, yes, the mods did do something about it and I'm grateful, but it should not have come to this. I have never insulted anyone inparticular and never would - but got a horrible pm. It did not just insult me, but Meat too.

I have been on the OIFC tonite and Meat is posting freely and happily - what does that tell you - think about it

There will be a mass exidose soon if things do not change

[heat]

Originally Posted by David M. Driskell

To "heat":

I look at this as a gathering of Meat Loaf fans who interact with each other and are occasionally graced with Mr. Aday's presence. I realize this is a fan club for the rock and roll legend and Hollywood actor named Meat Loaf. I agree we all appreciate the many projects Mr. Loaf has put his blood, sweat, and tears into, but (and I only speak for msyelf on this matter) I cannot come to a worship alter for Meat Loaf. Behind the might character of Meat Loaf lies a hard-working man named Michael Aday. A man who has an impecable work ethic - much more so than most all of us. I guess I have learned to look and see that Michael Aday is just a man - worthy of equal treatment by all. Sorry that I cannot bow down and worship, but I can appreciate his craft and see him as the absolute best at what he does. Does this make my admiration of Meat Loaf any less than yours? Sorry, but the answer is no. We all love and appreciate Meat Loaf very much, but just in vastly different ways. I can understand the way you view him, and cannot understand why some refuse to extend others the same courtesy.

David, Most of this post i do actually agree with. I'm not here to alter - worship him either, i too see him as just a man. A man with remarkable talent and grace, but nonetheless, still a man. A man who is very sensitive and prone. He has alway's been his own harshest critic and i daresay he knows when he might not have given his best performance - i just think that he doesn't need to have it pointed out to him repeatedly.

[Deb]

Originally Posted by FALLEN ANGEL1000

I have been on the OIFC tonite and Meat is posting freely and happily - what does that tell you - think about it

There will be a mass exidose soon if things do not change

He may be happy there now, but the vast majority of the negtive and hurtful posts originated on the old format of the board. Meat just ranted here as if we'd all made them. He lost sight of where the posts were made. This is another fact that has been lost sight of here. Some are saying if the mods here had done their job sooner this wouldnt of happened, when in actual fact it was the oifc that didnt do their job, and then left the mods here to deal with the fall out. Funny what short memory some people have.

[heat]

Originally Posted by sultonfan

Some are saying if the mods here had done their job sooner this wouldnt of happened, when in actual fact it was the oifc that didnt do their job, and then left the mods here to deal with the fall out. Funny what short memory some people have.

I can assure you Debs, that my memory is just fine, thanks all the same.

If you cast YOUR memory back i think you might find that the mudslinging at Meat actually started here, then went over to the OIFC, then came back here. And while we are on about the OIFC, that board has never had what we know as MODS - Vee has worked hard to get the board where it is now, and has always tried to delete any insulting posts - wether they be to Meat or any other forum users...

And yes, i fully stand by what i said - if the mods had done thier jobs sooner and done them well, then we wouldn't be in this situation now.

[Deb]

Originally Posted by heat

If you cast YOUR memory back i think you might find that the mudslinging at Meat actually started here, then went over to the OIFC, then came back here.

What was the mudslinging that started here?

[Deb]

Originally Posted by heat

If you cast YOUR memory back i think you might find that the mudslinging at Meat actually started here, then went over to the OIFC, then came back here.

What was the mudslinging that started here?

[heat]

Party In The Park - need i say more?......

[Deb]

Originally Posted by heat

Party In The Park - need i say more?......

I wasnt reading much back then, but as far as i'm aware, that was Dean, and to my mind he isnt a fan. And i'm sure we can all agree on the fact that. thats about as much as we can expect from him anyway. Dont think its fair to use that as a fan posting. but as i really dont know the facts on that, i will stand corrected.

What I was refering to was when the drunk girl posted that she walked out of a show on the oifc, and meat posted here as if it had been said here. there was other instences as well. I 'm not saying anything bad about Vee, I'm sure she had worked hard ( i dont know facts as I dont go there much, if at all) R has also worked hard to get this board where it "was" and i'm sure he wants it back that way.

Its a bit unfair to now say that the oifc is such a wonderful place and this isnt, when in a few days / weeks / months the shoe can so easily be on the other foot and Meat prefers it here again, As he has done in the past.

[Diane]

Originally Posted by heat

And yes, i fully stand by what i said - if the mods had done thier jobs sooner and done them well, then we wouldn't be in this situation now.

I have every respect for Vee but in all honesty I don't believe she has anywhere near as many posts to deal with as we have on this forum. R. and the moderators work very hard here and give up an enormous amount of their time but it's impossible to ensure one of us is here 24/7. There are no perks, no glory and we often get a lot of stick into the bargain. (See above).

While I'm waiting for my broadband connection maybe some of you would like to contribute to my massive telephone bill and I'll happily spend more time here! Nobody? No didn't think so!

Diane

[Diane]

Can we all get back on topic now, PLEASE, I want to go to bed!

Diane

[Deb]

Originally Posted by Diane

I have every respect for Vee but in all honesty I don't believe she has anywhere near as many posts to deal with as we have on this forum. R. and the moderators work very hard here and give up an enormous amount of their time but it's impossible to ensure one of us is here 24/7. There are no perks, no glory and we often get a lot of stick into the bargain. (See above).

While I'm waiting for my broadband connection maybe some of you would like to contribute to my massive telephone bill and I'll happily spend more time here! Nobody? No didn't think so!

Diane

Agreed Diane that was another point I was going to make as well, that at leats the oifc gets recogintion for their efforts, The UK board doesnt on an offical level anyway.

[Di]

Originally Posted by R.

Why do you think that it always has to be black or white?
There are nuances of grey too. You may want to give this a thought.

I just finished reading through this entire thread and there have been some fantastic things said that I agree with, and some that I do not.... But of everything posted the thing that hit me absolutely the most was this small bit by R. It rocked... and pretty much summed up what I felt about the two options offered here to vote on.

There is no way I could vote in this poll as neither of these choices represent what I enjoy in my visits here to this forum. And what I have been having difficulty understanding is why conflict is something that some forum members seem to continually run from and wish to squelch... whatever happened to managing conflict and learning from it? Life is always going to have it as long as we are all walking through it together... and with 1,000 diversified people here there are always going to be disagreements in opinions.

For me the option is not black and white as R. so eloquently brought out, but rather the choice to post with intelligence, consideration, patience, and to take the time to make my words and beliefs count. Taking the extra moments before posting when aggitated can go a long way as well towards making your voice heard in a way that others may be willing to listen to and respect.... and it can be done in spite of a totally opposing view if it is presented in a positive fashion with good intent.

When someone posts a differing belief or opinion, I see it as an opportunity to use it to present my own view or argument. Debate can be an extremely useful tool for saying many things that are of value.... and I actually welcome the challenge to use my mind and wits to present my own points and beliefs, and to do so with grace and style can be very rewarding additionally.

My two cents,

Di

[DIZZY DRUMMER]

Just Remember folks!!!!

UNITED - WE STAND

DEVIDED WE FALL


We are all here for the same reason - Meat Loaf

Please can't we enjoy and celebrate that

I joined to have fun - but not seen much of that lately

We need good conversations - I agree with that - insults and personal attacks are not nice to read or receive

Surely we all want the same thing - a good, fun, safe forum

It's a simple plan - if people stuck to the rules it should work

[Deb]

Good point Sharon

Not sure I can actaully take another day of all this lol

Deb

[DIZZY DRUMMER]

Deb

Me neither - had enough now

Seriously thinking about hanging up my spirs with Meat

[tbuck]

Nope, I'm not voting here either.

What kind of choices are these?

Good lord, and people wonder why some are leaving this site?

T

[Sue K]

Originally Posted by tbuck

Nope, I'm not voting here either.

What kind of choices are these?

Good lord, and people wonder why some are leaving this site?

T

Yes, I'm not voting either in fear that somewhere down the road, a year or two from now, if I feel differently, the point will be hammered home to me how I felt today.

And I'm not going to leave. I enjoy playing on the off-topics and I like to cruise and check out what everyone is up to.

But of all the topics/ threads I've read on the board, the one I find most disturbing and ludicrous is the discussion of banning Meat from the forum.
I'm still stunned over that one.

Take care.

[Winston]

Originally Posted by tink

But of all the topics/ threads I've read on the board, the one I find most disturbing and ludicrous is the discussion of banning Meat from the forum.
I'm still stunned over that one.Take care.

rules are rules...and he should have to follow them like the rest of us.......the rules state that you cannot do the following....

No vulgar language or profanity
No threatening, abusive or harassing comments.

And seeing as some of us have been at the end of his outbursts...then i see no reason why his account cannot be suspended for a week or whatever it is...just like the rest of us......

This forum will not change unless these rules apply to everyone....including Meat.

[original sin]

This is actually starting to make me laugh now.

The whole point Winston is a lot of us feel that it should NEVER have got to the stage where Meat felt he needed to make the posts he did.
Attacks and swipes against him have been given the time of day as free spech opinions and it would appear that neither other fans or he can react.

So as it seem to be missed entirely the whole point of setting up this poll - is because of what we have become, what it looks like we've lost and for why.

Like it or not these boards do more than bear his name it lays claim to being a fan club - so what are we prepared to see and hear.

I have said and stand by it that I am happy for people to say they didn't or don't like this and that. What I don't feel I should have to stand by and see are critiques that question his motives eg "Just making money tour"
posts that question his judgement and the band eg " crappy set lists"
and posts that attcak his art and work eg " stumbling old man" 10 mins of rant on stage" " tuneless wailings"

If the member of these boards find this acceptable then I have serious trouble believing it is indeed a fan club.

[DIZZY DRUMMER]

Sin wrote:

The whole point Winston is a lot of us feel that it should NEVER have got to the stage where Meat felt he needed to make the posts he did.
Attacks and swipes against him have been given the time of day as free spech opinions and it would appear that neither other fans or he can react.

So as it seem to be missed entirely the whole point of setting up this poll - is because of what we have become, what it looks like we've lost and for why.

Like it or not these boards do more than bear his name it lays claim to being a fan club - so what are we prepared to see and hear.

I personally am not prepared to see or receive insulting remarks about Meat or other members of the forum. I have said it before, good constructive conversation is great - but insults and whining NO

I have said and stand by it that I am happy for people to say they didn't or don't like this and that. What I don't feel I should have to stand by and see are critiques that question his motives eg "Just making money tour"
posts that question his judgement and the band eg " crappy set lists"
and posts that attcak his art and work eg " stumbling old man" 10 mins of rant on stage" " tuneless wailings"

I think that after all of these years - Meat and the band etc are able to organise concerts - they may not be to everyone's tastes - but he knows what he wants and how to do it - surely !!!!!!!

If the member of these boards find this acceptable then I have serious trouble believing it is indeed a fan club.

I agree totally with this - A FAN CLUB - AT THE MOMENT - A FARCE

[Winston]

so your justifying his actions then?????? if thats the case..then we will get no where..... can't you not admit that he was wrong in insulting people the way he did....you and others have no problem whatsoever in telling me or others that i shouldn't write this i shouldn't write that etc cause it will hurt meat.....but everyone sings praises when meat goes off on one.....

[DIZZY DRUMMER]

Winston wrote:

so your justifying his actions then?????? if thats the case..then we will get no where..... can't you not admit that he was wrong in insulting people the way he did....you and others have no problem whatsoever in telling me or others that i shouldn't write this i shouldn't write that etc cause it will hurt meat.....but everyone sings praises when meat goes off on one.....

I'm not going over old ground - I've answered this once