Banning Nikox.

stretch37 · 17 May 2012, 03:22

Dear Mods.

Nikox1 is a respected and good natured member of the forums.

He came onto the thread, posted his opinion on Meat's voice versus Bruce's voice, and was given an infraction.

The entire point of that thread was to discuss those two artists, and their differences/similarities was it not? I've been following it and it is very clear that is the entire purpose of the thread. To discuss, compare, contrast the artists. If it was "infraction-worthy" to state your opinion as such, why not just close the entire thread and be done with it?

Instead, one of your dedicated, friendly members who is a good friend logged in, saw a thread, and added his 2 cents, and was given immediate disciplinary action without warning I believe. When he questioned this he was banned. Why?

I see his behavior as not ego or disrespect, but as a fair question.

Thank you,

Matt Price.

**Monstro** · 17 May 2012, 03:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by stretch37

Dear Mods.

Nikox1 is a respected and good natured member of the forums.

A point that is not in question

Quote:

Originally Posted by stretch37

He came onto the thread, posted his opinion on Meat's voice versus Bruce's voice, and was given an infraction.

No he didn't, he came onto the thread AGAIN and posted a comment he had posted at least once in the thread already and which a mod had deleted as part of a thread clean up. The mod then issued a statement which was subsequently ignored.

Quote:

Originally Posted by stretch37

Instead, one of your dedicated, friendly members who is a good friend logged in, saw a thread, and added his 2 cents, and was given immediate disciplinary action without warning I believe. When he questioned this he was banned. Why?

The warning was issued by the mod in the thread, this was ignored, an infraction was given (not a big one but a small one, didn't stop him from doing anything but was there as ANOTHER warning). Your dedicated friendly friend then told the people who run this site to "stick it", his choice, he made it and personally I find that very insulting, seems like the webmaster also did as well.

Coming from someone who was screaming from the rooftops to all and sundry that this site needed firmer mod control and greater respect shown by all that use it I find it somewhat ironic that when this happens you're starting threads in feedback central complaining about it.

stretch37 · 17 May 2012, 06:01

Ok, cool. I heard different from the person. I heard there were less warnings. In fact, I heard there were ZERO warnings. So my apologies. I thought he was being honest with me....I guess he was just upset he couldn't talk about what he wanted. I'm sorry that I came on so strong and accused you of something before I knew the entire story, that was my mistake....

As far as your other comment....really drove me nuts...You know what? The only reason I was vocal about more rules is to help keep Meat here....now that he appears to be gone for good, I could give two shits what its like. I was trying to help us keep Meat and I just ended up pissing off moderators because they thought I thought "they weren't good enough". Which is BULL. I thought the mods were GREAT before, All of you were ~~~~ing great and I enjoyed the atmosphere. And I thought the rules were FINE except for a little bit of bullying that appears to have disappeared now (thank god).

I wasn't screaming from the rooftops, I had an opinion and I stated it, and people seem to get mad at the fact that I have one. They seem to get offended and feel bad and feel like I am putting them down by having one! Well I was not thank you very much. I was trying to help, and that's what you get when you try to help here, you get people getting mad at you. Sorry that I wanted to keep Meat !

This thread serves no purpose so I do not care if it is gone next time I login.

stretch37 · 17 May 2012, 06:10

And as far as good friend, and friendly person, Paul is a great guy with a big heart. I am not sure why this happened, but I do not intend to get into a fight of any sort. It seems like he just butted heads with the wrong person....And I am sad that he is banned, because he is really upset and feels that he didn't do much wrong. If "wrong" mean't he was not listening to a moderator despite several warnings, then I understand. It is only fair he is banned and I support it if that is the case.

But if the case is that the thread was cleaned, he somehow missed that message and got an infraction for posting his opinion, and then posted again complaining about the infraction (restating the reason for his infraction) that got him kicked, I am not sure it was justified....And I do NOT think he should be banned at all for simply complaining about the infraction. Whether a mod was embarassed or not, this is not a dictaitorship and his comment should have been transferred to Feedback Central as a member with a very good history on here and a regular contributor. Having said that I do support stricter rules so If he was clearly ignoring rules on purpose then i guess we will all have to learn to adjust to the stricter rules....I've done that before and served consequences. I am one for equality and fairness, that's what will bring Meat back here and cause everyone to feel welcome.

**Monstro** · 17 May 2012, 11:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by stretch37

But if the case is that the thread was cleaned, he somehow missed that message and got an infraction for posting his opinion, and then posted again complaining about the infraction (restating the reason for his infraction) that got him kicked, I am not sure it was justified...

If? There is no "if", the thread was cleaned and a deleted post was reposted.

Quote:

Originally Posted by stretch37

And I do NOT think he should be banned at all for simply complaining about the infraction.

He wasn't, he was in dialogue with a mod regarding that via pm, he was temporarily banned for his comment on open forum.

Quote:

Originally Posted by stretch37

this is not a dictaitorship and his comment should have been transferred to Feedback Central

It was transferred to feedback central, please see thread http://www.mlukfc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18168

whilst you're there please also note that he was given to option to have it deleted.

Please also note that there was no embarrassed mod and there was no butting of heads, rules of the forum were ignored as was the request of a mod.

Quote:

Originally Posted by stretch37

...mods I hope you can treat a long standing good member with some respect

That works both ways, ignoring a mod is totally disrespectful as is telling them to "stick it".

R. · 17 May 2012, 12:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by stretch37

But if the case is that the thread was cleaned, he somehow missed that message and got an infraction for posting his opinion, and then posted again complaining about the infraction (restating the reason for his infraction) that got him kicked, I am not sure it was justified....And I do NOT think he should be banned at all for simply complaining about the infraction. Whether a mod was embarassed or not, this is not a dictaitorship and his comment should have been transferred to Feedback Central as a member with a very good history on here and a regular contributor. Having said that I do support stricter rules so If he was clearly ignoring rules on purpose then i guess we will all have to learn to adjust to the stricter rules....I've done that before and served consequences. I am one for equality and fairness, that's what will bring Meat back here and cause everyone to feel welcome.

Let me help you with our forum rules:

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Forum Rules

No threatening, abusive or harassing comments.
...
No discussion or challenge to our editing policy are allowed within the forums.If you disagree, or want clarification as to why a particular topic, post or individual was removed, you must contact us via PM. Moderators, administrators and staff will NOT respond to any inquiries or challenges of these rules or decisions on the public forum.
...
Do not engage in "flame-wars" or excessive exchange of confrontational postings.
...
Members are to respect the designated TOPIC AREAS when posting their message.
...
Forum rules and guidelines are not up for debate. This is not a democracy, but rather a private forum. Anyone openly debating the rules we have set in place will be removed. Moderators of this forum are not to be argued with when enforcing forum rules and guidelines. Anyone arguing with a Moderator against disciplinary measures will be removed from the forum.

He seems to have missed a lot by posting the comment that got him banned. While we are usually very relaxed with regard to discussions of moderational decisions, coming back to us with an insulting reply because of an infraction is absolutely not tolerable. That's why I banned him. Finally, he seems to have missed to tell you that this is only a temporary ban which will get lifted once the infraction expires.

RSG · 17 May 2012, 13:00

In case I missed something whats infraction mean?

**Monstro** · 17 May 2012, 13:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by RSG

In case I missed something whats infraction mean?

Please read this http://www.mlukfc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8833

duke knooby · 17 May 2012, 19:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by RSG

In case I missed something whats infraction mean?

i'm glad you asked that, as i was wondering the same thing myself

Kev · 17 May 2012, 19:39

I don't usually bother getting involved in this sort of thing being a long standing member of this forum for almost 9 years (has it really been that long) and longer without being a member but I do feel that 'Nikox' does offer a lot to this forum and I'm sure many would agree.

I'm too busy for all the messing about but though I should at least put my view across.

CarylB · 17 May 2012, 20:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kev

I don't usually bother getting involved in this sort of thing being a long standing member of this forum for almost 9 years (has it really been that long) and longer without being a member but I do feel that 'Nikox' does offer a lot to this forum and I'm sure many would agree.

That's hardly the point though is it? Rainer has certain rules and guidelines for his forum. It is his forum, his expense, in effect we are here at his invitation. He has a perfect right to set rules for behaviour and apply them in his house. Breach them and you should be treated the same whether you're someone who brings a lot to the forum or not, surely. Monstro made it perfectly clear that there was an easy route to get the action rescinded, and Rainer has pointed out it was temporary, so it's not as though Paul was cast out of Eden and hung out to dry for eternity, or needs some kind of crusade over righting an injustice that has not been done.

Caryl

stretch37 · 17 May 2012, 20:34

I just talked with Nikox and he insists he didn't lie and only said "suck it" at the end out of frustration for how he was being treated.

While I respect the rules, I am not sure why he was banned for questioning his infraction. I can understand getting an infraction for posting a message after a thread has been cleaned, but it shouldn't have went any further than that.

He is a funny, nice person and I don't agree with this. And yet Evil one can laugh at his goodbye with an obnoxious waving smiley face and a "Cheerio" which, in the context of Nikox's thread, is highly disrespectful.

I am sorry, but while I do respect the place of Moderators to moderate and keep the peace, and regular members to mostly abide by that and live within the rules, this is one decision that will forever baffle me.

**The Flying Mouse** · 17 May 2012, 20:47

I think between them, Michael and R have explained the situation well enough, but as the mod who issued the infraction, here's my little recap.........

Andy cleaned the thread by deleting several posts. One of which was a post by Nikox.

Andy posted a play nice warning on the thread.

Andy doesn't usually do this for fun, you can usually bet there's a good reason.

Completly ignoring Andy, Nikox reposted the message Andy deleted.

I deleted the message and issued an infraction (a 10 pointer, which is about as small as they come) for re-posting the deleted content.

As far as we are concerned, the issuing of an infraction is the end of the matter, unless there is some genuine concern to address.

But..................

Nikox then threw his toys out of his pram.
He claimed that re-posting the deleted post had been a "joke".
I've looked at several sources online for the definition of joke, and reposting deleted shit was not mentioned in any one of them

I've replied to Nikox telling him I can't see how this behaviour can be seen as a joke, and it's actually more like a display of arrogance and dismisal of the site staff.

So you can get the general flavour of his reply, here's a small snipet of what I got.........

Quote:

The only joke is this so called fansite.

Combined with the post he put on the open forum, I can see why R has decided to increase the infraction points to make up a ban.

Nikox (like every other member) uses this forum free of charge, so to first act like that on the forum, and then to be so insulting to the site and staff when he's given a small infraction for his actions, is not acceptable.

**The Flying Mouse** · 17 May 2012, 20:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by stretch37

I just talked with Nikox and he insists he didn't lie and only said "suck it" at the end out of frustration for how he was being treated.

While I respect the rules, I am not sure why he was banned for questioning his infraction. I can understand getting an infraction for posting a message after a thread has been cleaned, but it shouldn't have went any further than that.

He is a funny, nice person and I don't agree with this. And yet Evil one can laugh at his goodbye with an obnoxious waving smiley face and a "Cheerio" which, in the context of Nikox's thread, is highly disrespectful.

I am sorry, but while I do respect the place of Moderators to moderate and keep the peace, and regular members to mostly abide by that and live within the rules, this is one decision that will forever baffle me.

Read through my post.

Those are the facts.

Tell me what part you do not understand.

We do not infact/ban people for no reason.

*AndyK* · 17 May 2012, 20:58

Thanks Neil, you beat me to the recap.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Flying Mouse

Andy doesn't usually do this for fun, you can usually bet there's a good reason.

And I certainly don't do it for fun when I'm in the middle of a week working 13+ hour days at the other end of the country from my home.

Simply put, we'd appreciate it if any warnings a mod or admin post in a thread are heeded. We tend to get a little fed up when they're blatantly ignored, and even more fed up when they're thrown back in our faces by members who've been here long enough to know better.

**Ankie** · 18 May 2012, 15:18

Points have been made. Thread closed for the time being.

**The Flying Mouse** · 18 May 2012, 19:58

Last couple of posts deleted for arguments sake because we're leaving the topic and going to the infighting.

I think this thread has served it's purpose now.
It's in the rules that questioning a mods decission should be done direct to a staff member via PM rather than on open forum, and as this thread (technically in breach of that rule) seems to have answered anything there is to ask on the matter, I'll leave this thread locked.

If anybody wishes to discuss it further with the staff, and you either contact one of us by PM or report the post in which case we'll all get your message.

17 May 2012, 03:22	#1
stretch37 Mega Loafer Join Date: 28.06.2008 Location: Posts: 2,119	Banning Nikox. Dear Mods. Nikox1 is a respected and good natured member of the forums. He came onto the thread, posted his opinion on Meat's voice versus Bruce's voice, and was given an infraction. The entire point of that thread was to discuss those two artists, and their differences/similarities was it not? I've been following it and it is very clear that is the entire purpose of the thread. To discuss, compare, contrast the artists. If it was "infraction-worthy" to state your opinion as such, why not just close the entire thread and be done with it? Instead, one of your dedicated, friendly members who is a good friend logged in, saw a thread, and added his 2 cents, and was given immediate disciplinary action without warning I believe. When he questioned this he was banned. Why? I see his behavior as not ego or disrespect, but as a fair question. Thank you, Matt Price.

17 May 2012, 06:01	#3
stretch37 Mega Loafer Join Date: 28.06.2008 Location: Posts: 2,119	Ok, cool. I heard different from the person. I heard there were less warnings. In fact, I heard there were ZERO warnings. So my apologies. I thought he was being honest with me....I guess he was just upset he couldn't talk about what he wanted. I'm sorry that I came on so strong and accused you of something before I knew the entire story, that was my mistake.... As far as your other comment....really drove me nuts...You know what? The only reason I was vocal about more rules is to help keep Meat here....now that he appears to be gone for good, I could give two shits what its like. I was trying to help us keep Meat and I just ended up pissing off moderators because they thought I thought "they weren't good enough". Which is BULL. I thought the mods were GREAT before, All of you were ~~~~ing great and I enjoyed the atmosphere. And I thought the rules were FINE except for a little bit of bullying that appears to have disappeared now (thank god). I wasn't screaming from the rooftops, I had an opinion and I stated it, and people seem to get mad at the fact that I have one. They seem to get offended and feel bad and feel like I am putting them down by having one! Well I was not thank you very much. I was trying to help, and that's what you get when you try to help here, you get people getting mad at you. Sorry that I wanted to keep Meat ! This thread serves no purpose so I do not care if it is gone next time I login.

17 May 2012, 06:10	#4
stretch37 Mega Loafer Join Date: 28.06.2008 Location: Posts: 2,119	And as far as good friend, and friendly person, Paul is a great guy with a big heart. I am not sure why this happened, but I do not intend to get into a fight of any sort. It seems like he just butted heads with the wrong person....And I am sad that he is banned, because he is really upset and feels that he didn't do much wrong. If "wrong" mean't he was not listening to a moderator despite several warnings, then I understand. It is only fair he is banned and I support it if that is the case. But if the case is that the thread was cleaned, he somehow missed that message and got an infraction for posting his opinion, and then posted again complaining about the infraction (restating the reason for his infraction) that got him kicked, I am not sure it was justified....And I do NOT think he should be banned at all for simply complaining about the infraction. Whether a mod was embarassed or not, this is not a dictaitorship and his comment should have been transferred to Feedback Central as a member with a very good history on here and a regular contributor. Having said that I do support stricter rules so If he was clearly ignoring rules on purpose then i guess we will all have to learn to adjust to the stricter rules....I've done that before and served consequences. I am one for equality and fairness, that's what will bring Meat back here and cause everyone to feel welcome.

17 May 2012, 13:00	#7
RSG Mega Loafer Join Date: 27.07.2003 Location: Canada Posts: 3,296	In case I missed something whats infraction mean?

17 May 2012, 19:39	#10
Kev Just Kev Join Date: 01.06.2003 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 1,856	I don't usually bother getting involved in this sort of thing being a long standing member of this forum for almost 9 years (has it really been that long) and longer without being a member but I do feel that 'Nikox' does offer a lot to this forum and I'm sure many would agree. I'm too busy for all the messing about but though I should at least put my view across.

17 May 2012, 20:34	#12
stretch37 Mega Loafer Join Date: 28.06.2008 Location: Posts: 2,119	I just talked with Nikox and he insists he didn't lie and only said "suck it" at the end out of frustration for how he was being treated. While I respect the rules, I am not sure why he was banned for questioning his infraction. I can understand getting an infraction for posting a message after a thread has been cleaned, but it shouldn't have went any further than that. He is a funny, nice person and I don't agree with this. And yet Evil one can laugh at his goodbye with an obnoxious waving smiley face and a "Cheerio" which, in the context of Nikox's thread, is highly disrespectful. I am sorry, but while I do respect the place of Moderators to moderate and keep the peace, and regular members to mostly abide by that and live within the rules, this is one decision that will forever baffle me.

18 May 2012, 15:18	#16
Ankie Office manager Join Date: 25.04.2002 Posts: 1,883	Points have been made. Thread closed for the time being.

18 May 2012, 19:58	#17
The Flying Mouse Armed ba$tard and Jo's other half. Join Date: 06.08.2002 Location: In the middle of nowhere near the end of the line. Posts: 16,104	Last couple of posts deleted for arguments sake because we're leaving the topic and going to the infighting. I think this thread has served it's purpose now. It's in the rules that questioning a mods decission should be done direct to a staff member via PM rather than on open forum, and as this thread (technically in breach of that rule) seems to have answered anything there is to ask on the matter, I'll leave this thread locked. If anybody wishes to discuss it further with the staff, and you either contact one of us by PM or report the post in which case we'll all get your message.