Bad Attitude Mixing/Mastering

[ThatWriterGuy]

Does anyone know anything about the recording/mixing/mastering of Bad Attitude, both the song and the album?

I've been listening to the LP lately and that song is quite different compared to the rest of the tracks that follow it. To my ears it sounds like it was either mixed or recorded in a completely different studio with a different producer/mix. It comes across a lot more on the UK 1st press vinyl; the difference in sound is immediately noticeable. It's quite muffled and muddy compared to the rest of the album, which is excellent (and a total revelation!).

Anyone have any info on this?

[Wario]

Originally Posted by ThatWriterGuy

Does anyone know anything about the recording/mixing/mastering of Bad Attitude, both the song and the album?

I've been listening to the LP lately and that song is quite different compared to the rest of the tracks that follow it. To my ears it sounds like it was either mixed or recorded in a completely different studio with a different producer/mix. It comes across a lot more on the UK 1st press vinyl; the difference in sound is immediately noticeable. It's quite muffled and muddy compared to the rest of the album, which is excellent (and a total revelation!).

Anyone have any info on this?

A: the U.S. mix is far superior to the UK one which sounds rushed, the vocals aren't mixed high enough and all around sounds sloppy

B: the U.S. remix is what the UK mix should've been but it was too little too late

C: cheating in the your dreams, whatever version has a weird volume adjustment and is very poorly mixed.

The mix of this alb was a cluster fudge. Ashame cause somg wise it's imo his best album!

[ThatWriterGuy]

That definitely makes sense; would be great to know where each cut was recorded and by whom? The mastering for the UK vinyl is, again, very different from the CD though. The sound is phenomenal barring the title track, like having Meat over the other side of your living room in an isolation booth, singing straight into the microphone.

[renegadeangel]

Originally Posted by ThatWriterGuy

That definitely makes sense; would be great to know where each cut was recorded and by whom? The mastering for the UK vinyl is, again, very different from the CD though. The sound is phenomenal barring the title track, like having Meat over the other side of your living room in an isolation booth, singing straight into the microphone.

Though no one is saying too much about it the original recordings were done by Alan Shacklock, but he was replaced by Paul Jacobs and Meat Loaf and to a degree Mack of Queen fame.
Paul and Meat were instrumental in bringing in a more BAT feel to songs as Paul had worked with Jim Steinman in the past plus he and his wife Sara are accomplished songwriters who definitely made a huge impact on the album.
They wrote
BAD ATTITUDE
MODERN GIRL
PIECE OF THE ACTION
SAILOR TO A SIREN
JUMPIN THE GUN
Word is that Mack remixed the album for US release with Meat. Paul and Bob Kulick getting involved as well.
This was also the introduction of John Parr to Meat Loaf as he contributed a couple of songs

[Wario]

Originally Posted by renegadeangel

Though no one is saying too much about it the original recordings were done by Alan Shacklock, but he was replaced by Paul Jacobs and Meat Loaf and to a degree Mack of Queen fame.
Paul and Meat were instrumental in bringing in a more BAT feel to songs as Paul had worked with Jim Steinman in the past plus he and his wife Sara are accomplished songwriters who definitely made a huge impact on the album.
They wrote
BAD ATTITUDE
MODERN GIRL
PIECE OF THE ACTION
SAILOR TO A SIREN
JUMPIN THE GUN
Word is that Mack remixed the album for US release with Meat. Paul and Bob Kulick getting involved as well.
This was also the introduction of John Parr to Meat Loaf as he contributed a couple of songs

Also most noteably SURFS UP

[Evil Ernie]

Originally Posted by Wario

Also most noteably SURFS UP

What about it?

[Wario]

Originally Posted by Evil Ernie

What about it?

Complete remix from the U.S. version.
My youtube has both mixes:

YouTube Video

YouTube Video

[ThatWriterGuy]

Thanks everyone, this has been nagging away at me all week, so it's nice to get some perspective on the recording/mixing. Next on the list is to find out more about the vinyl pressings. I heard a UK copy that sounded quite flat in comparison to my own (pretty much night and day actually), both in EX+ condition with no pops, crackle, etc. flat as a pancake and noise free. But one has incredible dynamics, and the other just sounds like the CD, but with slightly greater degrees of separation.

Wario: which mix do you prefer, Arista or RCA?

[AndyK]

I spoke to Bob Kulick a few years ago, and he told me this tale: Meat didn't like the mix of the original release and persuaded the record Co to let him remix it. Unknown to the record Co (until they started getting the bill for studio time I presume) Meat and the band recorded some additional parts.

[ThatWriterGuy]

That's interesting - was it pre release of the original or post release? Could explain a lot about the varying quality of some of the presses out there.

[AndyK]

The UK release was November 84 whereas the US version was April 85. Meat spent much of that period on tour so it's unclear

[ThatWriterGuy]

Hmm ... may have to do some digging with this. The UK first press is an incredible sounding piece, minus the first track, so I can see why Meat might've been disappointed with it at the time (I always skip BA when I'm playing the album because it sounds so disjointed on vinyl).

[renegadeangel]

What really would have been interesting for the album if the tossed one song and included the extended play of MODERN GIRL and PIECE OF THE ACTION.
Both sound so much better with the extras

[ThatWriterGuy]

Do you have links to those?

As for BA, it's definitely one of my favourites from the 80's, but like you said - potential for it to be so much more cohesive. There are definitely some great performances on there though.

[Evil One]

The UK version is flat and lifeless, but much more cohesive than the US version. The individual US tracks sound much better, but as a whole the album is a mess. It basically sounds like songs were given out to different people with the remit of 'make this sound better' and with no knowledge of what the others were doing. The whole album should be mixed as Modern Girl and Surf's Up are. Then it would be awesome.

In fact all of Meat's pre Bat 2 albums should be taken apart and remixed with today's technology. They could all sound so much better.

[ThatWriterGuy]

I think this applies to the CD/digital versions only, but yeah, I agree. The first press vinyl on the other hand, apart from the first track, is one of the best sounding Meat Loaf releases I've heard. The dynamics are enormous.

[aks650]

Very very interesting, I've never heard the two side by side like that..! Are you still able to buy the US version and if so how do you know the difference!?

I agree the 80's albums should all be remastered

[Evil One]

Yes, it's part of the Original Album Classics bundle: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Original-Alb...album+classics

[PanicLord]

Originally Posted by Evil One

Yes, it's part of the Original Album Classics bundle: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Original-Alb...album+classics

So is the 30th Anniversary the UK version still?


http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B00JAD11VA/ref=mp_s_a_1_2?qid=1445841549&sr=8-2&pi=SY200_QL40&keywords=bad+attitude&dpPl=1&dpID=61MVwpkBF6L&ref=plSr ch

[rockfenris2005]

I have learned more about Bad Attitude in this thread than I have in the last five years. And before that, about ten years. With the chapter in Meat's book.

We know sooo much about what went on with BOOH. But not so much about the other albums. Please. By all means continue. Tell me all about what happened with BBIS. I really want to know.

[evil nickname]

Originally Posted by Evil One

The individual US tracks sound much better, but as a whole the album is a mess. It basically sounds like songs were given out to different people with the remit of 'make this sound better' and with no knowledge of what the others were doing.

If the US singles from Bad Attitude use the same versions as the albums, then tracks Bad Attitude, Modern Girl and Sailor to a Siren were remixed by Harvey Goldberg, Bob Kulick, Paul Jacobs and Meat Loaf; and Surf's Up was remixed by Josh Abbey, Bob Kulick, Paul Jacobs and Meat Loaf. (Jumpin' the Gun on the US Modern Girl promo I have says it was mixed by Mack, which might also mean it's just the UK version.)

[chairboys]

Remixing remastering tweaking enhancing. Why why oh why? Please just leave albums in their original state. In 5, 10, 20, 50, 100 or a 1000 years we just keep releasing audio modified versions of Bat, BBIS or BA? It's like us saying Alfred the Great's Greatest Hits has too much background echo from the monastery so let's tone it down. I may be an old fuddy duddy but don't mess with history. Meat's albums were a moment in time. Treasure the imperfections and treasure your memories of when you first listened to them.

[rockfenris2005]

Re: remastering, it's the same as digitally remastering a 50 year old film, like "The Sound of Music", just making it look and sound the best it possibly can. That's what I would want from the albums. It'd be great to hear "Dead ringer" in that state. Problem is, Meat's not Pink Floyd and they need a James Guthrie to really do right by it all, and not just another edition in the loudness war. That still is a problem, I think.

[ThatWriterGuy]

I don't think I've heard many remasters (there are exceptions - the 2014 reissue of Revenge by KISS, for one) that sound better than the original first vinyl pressings. I've definitely heard remasters that sound better than their earlier CD and digital releases, but to me all digital music sounds kinda flat and lifeless - even HD DAC. If you can imagine all instruments and vocals represented on paper as a tube, digital cuts off the top and bottom of that tube, so what you're left with is an impression of what was recorded in the studio, and not a very good one in most cases.

[Wario]

Originally Posted by chairboys

Remixing remastering tweaking enhancing. Why why oh why? Please just leave albums in their original state. In 5, 10, 20, 50, 100 or a 1000 years we just keep releasing audio modified versions of Bat, BBIS or BA? It's like us saying Alfred the Great's Greatest Hits has too much background echo from the monastery so let's tone it down. I may be an old fuddy duddy but don't mess with history. Meat's albums were a moment in time. Treasure the imperfections and treasure your memories of when you first listened to them.

I dont get that logic you dont want it to sound the best it can?

Original is not always better.

Would you not want a Blu Ray to look better then your DVD?