I Regret Every Dime I Ever Spent On Rundgren - Page 2

Nick · 28 Mar 2012, 03:25

Meat Measures success by helping people. He said that in every interview. If he did that in any career he would have been happy. No one HERE is measuring success like Meat does.

Evil Ernie · 28 Mar 2012, 03:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burkeaholic

Number 1 hits for Stienman since 1993?? Yeah didn't think so

Bottom line, without Bat Out of Hell, sung by Meat Loaf, Jim would have never gotten off the ground floor. Good composer or not, there would have been no songs for Air Supply or Bonnie Tyler if there had not been Meat Loaf first. Bat Out of Hell is what launched both men into the stratosphere. It was the perfect storm. Meat has done just fine post Steinman, whereas I haven't seen anything out of Jim in like 19 years. At least Meat continues to act and make some great new music

Celine Dion - It's All Coming Back To Me Now - BMI Song Of The Year
Boyzone - No Matter What
Tanz Der Vampire

Is it a huge list? No. But name me something that ML did comparable to those.

This is a stupid argument. It's of MY OPINION that he would not have been anywhere nearly as successful without the songs. Would he have had success? Maybe. But I liked Jim's chances without ML than the other way around. You have to keep in mind, that as brilliant as he is as a singer and an actor.... he was still a big fat guy. And guys like that generally don't get ANY chances at being a rock star. There's a reason why he's been called 'The Most Unlikely Rock Star Ever'. And good on him, but I think that even HE knows that much of his success was because of Jim and to a lesser degree Todd. And of course he helped them as well.

And I think it's great that ML is doing his thing, but I also wish that Jim wasn't in isolation.

CarylB · 28 Mar 2012, 04:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick

Meat Measures success by helping people. He said that in every interview. If he did that in any career he would have been happy. No one HERE is measuring success like Meat does.

And also by the quality of the work rather than numbers. But you're absolutely right. Meat measures success in very different terms than who contributed this or that, and what numbers sold, when and where. He is bigger than that.

However, I'd Lie for You was more than a series of ????? It was a big hit.

I do however agree with the last comment insofar as that to argue Meat would not have carved a successful career in performing art away from rock and roll is pointless .. and imo from a position of ignorance as it didn't pan out that way.

However, he has a natural talent, both as an actor and a singer. Had other choices not beckoned, had he been more conforming, he might well have taken the offer to professionally train for opera, and as Andrew has said he is someone who can engage an audience with masterful skill.

But more importantly one might consider this if one doesn't have a desire to diminish him and his success. I believe he has the talent, honest self-appraisal, energy, commitment, drive and determination to have made a success of whatever path he chose. I say this because he has proved these qualities consistently throughout his career. Something to admire and respect I think. And something his fans should give him credit for and celebrate.

Caryl

Evil Ernie · 28 Mar 2012, 04:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by CarylB

However, I'd Lie for You was more than a series of ????? It was a big hit.

In Europe? Yes. It was less of a success in NA. Though it is one of my favorite Non-Jim ML songs.

MarkS · 28 Mar 2012, 04:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evil Ernie

In Europe? Yes. It was less of a success in NA. Though it is one of my favorite Non-Jim ML songs.

Well with the exception of Celion Dion nothing from your list was a success outside of Europe, so by that logic Boyzone and Vampire whatever must not have been that successful either since they were not worldwide successes

CarylB · 28 Mar 2012, 04:36

Yes, in Europe. This is the UK fan club site, and Meat never lost anything in terms of popularity here. His career never needed relaunching, he remained a household name, even lived here.

But Tanz wasn't big in the US was it? Nor did Boyzone's version of No Matter What trouble the scorer too much in NA; didn't even struggle into the top 50 in Canada .. so I thought we were basing this comparison of "success" largely in Europe

Evil Ernie · 28 Mar 2012, 04:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burkeaholic

Well with the exception of Celion Dion nothing from your list was a success outside of Europe, so by that logic Boyzone and Vampire whatever must not have been that successful either since they were not worldwide successes

Quote:

Originally Posted by CarylB

Yes, in Europe. This is the UK fan club site, and Meat never lost anything in terms of popularity here. His career never needed relaunching, he remained a household name, even lived here.

But Tanz wasn't big in the US was it? Nor did Boyzone's version of No Matter What trouble the scorer too much in NA; didn't even struggle into the top 50 in Canada .. so I thought we were basing this comparison of "success" largely in Europe

True. You got me. Poorly thought out. Tanz was never popular in the US and it never got a Canadian show. The Boyzone song was a strong worldwide success though.

And yes, I'm aware that ML never lost his popularity in the UK, but his biggest albums were known world wide. You can't compare it JUST to European sales when they've both had strong success around the world.

The main point is that (even since 1993)JS has had more success away from ML than the other way around. They are both at their best when working together.

CarylB · 28 Mar 2012, 10:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evil Ernie

The Boyzone song was a strong worldwide success though.

It was #1 in the UK for an ear-cringing 3-4 weeks, and as far as I'm aware was the only Boyzone hit to ever achieve popularity in the U.S, but I'm not aware it made any significant impact in the charts there; as I said it didn't make the top 50 as far as I could find in NA. It went Platinum in the UK .. (as did CHSIB and HCTB).

Quote:

The main point is that (even since 1993)JS has had more success away from ML than the other way around.

Your main point. And imo unproven, one I totally disagree with, and one which won't develop more credibility simply by being repeated and continually based on the examples you give.

In my view success is measured by more than your examples. For Meat it is based on work done and delivered, and the quality of that work .. a pretty robust yardstick in anyone's book imo. Surely even the meanest critic would at least base it on things like sustained popularity, continuing to create and deliver new work which in the case of albums sells and makes an impact in the charts, continuing to perform to a level that fills theatres and arenas around the world .. and perhaps having a fansite where fans continue to get news of new releases and discuss new work delivered and out in the world.

Sarge · 28 Mar 2012, 11:34

When I saw the comparatively large number of new posts, I thought something interesting had happened (e.g. a live performance by ML), but unfortunately it's the same old silly Meat Loaf vs. Jim Steinman discussion again.

And it was triggered by... wait... a short comment by Todd Rundgren that had nothing to do with Steinman.

CarylB · 28 Mar 2012, 12:21

I think it was triggered by someone crowbarring in the comment "Without TR and Jim Steinman ML would be just another theatre guy who never went anywhere.", along with some words which have been removed. Until then it was comment on a remark made by Rundgren

robgomm · 28 Mar 2012, 13:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by CarylB

I think it was triggered by someone crowbarring in the comment "Without TR and Jim Steinman ML would be just another theatre guy who never went anywhere.", along with some words which have been removed. Until then it was comment on a remark made by Rundgren

It was indeed.

A Slice Of English · 28 Mar 2012, 14:02

Don't feed the trolls people.

daveake · 28 Mar 2012, 14:06

And back to Todd's comment, he does have a point unfortunately. In my relatively small (compared to some) sample of Meat concerts, he has rather often seemed to have left his voice behind at the previous show. My opinion, for what it's worth, is the same as something Jim said in interview ages ago - Meat's voice is one that needs rest between shows. I understand the pressures of needing to cram those shows together, but the end result is that when you go to a show you don't know if his voice will fully there or not.

Dave

Evil Ernie · 28 Mar 2012, 16:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by A Slice Of English

Don't feed the trolls people.

Trolling generally means posting stuff that you don't actually believe or posting something outlandish.

Every time I come here reminds me of 'The Buddy Bears'.

YouTube Video

Evil Ernie · 28 Mar 2012, 16:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by daveake

And back to Todd's comment, he does have a point unfortunately. In my relatively small (compared to some) sample of Meat concerts, he has rather often seemed to have left his voice behind at the previous show. My opinion, for what it's worth, is the same as something Jim said in interview ages ago - Meat's voice is one that needs rest between shows. I understand the pressures of needing to cram those shows together, but the end result is that when you go to a show you don't know if his voice will fully there or not.

Dave

But, but... He has such passion in his voice. He interacts with the crowd so great.

samurai7 · 28 Mar 2012, 16:12

somebody mentioned that Todd made his living off the back of Bat... The story I heard differs. He wasn't paid much, and funded a lot of it himself, then when it looked to be a flop he sold his producers rights. So.. make of that what you will. As for the comment. So what? you hear people say Meat can't sing, or is over the hill etc every day of the week. It's what YOU believe that matters.

Dave · 28 Mar 2012, 17:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evil Ernie

Is everyone on this forum a weak kneed wimp? Or a soccer (sorry, football)Mom who doesn't want anything negative ever said? I mean THINK ABOUT THE CHILDREN!

So he took a dig at Meat Loaf, so what? He KNOWS and worked with ML.

I am not a weak kneed wimp at all. However, I am professional and an entertainer myself. I have worked with people on stage and behind the scenes that I do not get along with. I have seen Meat Loaf on top of his form and have even seen a show that could be described as a "subway going down to the pits." Never, ever have I seen Meat Loaf (even when he was having trouble with a show) ever give less than 100%. Further, even on his worst vocal day - Meat Loaf can sing the hot patootie off any vocal Rundgren could utter. I personally think Rundgren is a jerk, and until proven otherwise (and this very unprofessional statement does not help his case), I will continue to think so.

Dave · 28 Mar 2012, 17:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sarge

When I saw the comparatively large number of new posts, I thought something interesting had happened (e.g. a live performance by ML), but unfortunately it's the same old silly Meat Loaf vs. Jim Steinman discussion again.

And it was triggered by... wait... a short comment by Todd Rundgren that had nothing to do with Steinman.

Amen!

AndrewG · 28 Mar 2012, 18:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evil Ernie

Trolling generally means posting stuff that you don't actually believe or posting something outlandish.

Every time I come here reminds me of 'The Buddy Bears'.

YouTube Video

Trolling as defined on Wiki

Quote:

In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evil Ernie

But, but... He has such passion in his voice. He interacts with the crowd so great.

What you are doing now seems to be trolling imo. Ie you've had your say but still feel it necessary to make sarcastic reverse comments which you clearly don't believe on the matter only to provoke emotional response.

Evil Ernie · 28 Mar 2012, 18:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndrewG

Trolling as defined on Wiki

What you are doing now seems to be trolling imo. Ie you've had your say but still feel it necessary to make sarcastic reverse comments which you clearly don't believe on the matter only to provoke emotional response.

Gimme a break. Sarcasm is clear as day.

A what would you rather have? A conversation or a Buddy Bears scenario.

Disagreeing makes things interesting.

**The Flying Mouse** · 28 Mar 2012, 18:29

Enough.

This thread has gone from a comment made by TR to a ML Vs JS pissing contest to a I don't know what

THis thread has nothing left to say

Two more things.

Anyone who wishes to make inflamatory/unduly critical posts about Jim should read Meat's post on the subject.

Anyone who wishes to make inflamatory/unduly critical posts about Meat should read the forum rules.

28 Mar 2012, 03:25	#26
Nick Super Loafer Join Date: 17.08.2005 Location: Pittsburgh Posts: 431	Meat Measures success by helping people. He said that in every interview. If he did that in any career he would have been happy. No one HERE is measuring success like Meat does.

28 Mar 2012, 04:36	#31
CarylB Mega Loafer Join Date: 16.04.2003 Location: Sheffield UK Posts: 5,910	Yes, in Europe. This is the UK fan club site, and Meat never lost anything in terms of popularity here. His career never needed relaunching, he remained a household name, even lived here. But Tanz wasn't big in the US was it? Nor did Boyzone's version of No Matter What trouble the scorer too much in NA; didn't even struggle into the top 50 in Canada .. so I thought we were basing this comparison of "success" largely in Europe

28 Mar 2012, 11:34	#34
Sarge Mega Loafer Join Date: 09.05.2008 Posts: 3,562	When I saw the comparatively large number of new posts, I thought something interesting had happened (e.g. a live performance by ML), but unfortunately it's the same old silly Meat Loaf vs. Jim Steinman discussion again. And it was triggered by... wait... a short comment by Todd Rundgren that had nothing to do with Steinman.

28 Mar 2012, 12:21	#35
CarylB Mega Loafer Join Date: 16.04.2003 Location: Sheffield UK Posts: 5,910	I think it was triggered by someone crowbarring in the comment "Without TR and Jim Steinman ML would be just another theatre guy who never went anywhere.", along with some words which have been removed. Until then it was comment on a remark made by Rundgren

28 Mar 2012, 14:02	#37
A Slice Of English Guest Join Date: 10.11.2003 Posts: 1,258	Don't feed the trolls people.

28 Mar 2012, 14:06	#38
daveake 200% is the new 110% Join Date: 13.03.2005 Location: Newbury Posts: 2,983	And back to Todd's comment, he does have a point unfortunately. In my relatively small (compared to some) sample of Meat concerts, he has rather often seemed to have left his voice behind at the previous show. My opinion, for what it's worth, is the same as something Jim said in interview ages ago - Meat's voice is one that needs rest between shows. I understand the pressures of needing to cram those shows together, but the end result is that when you go to a show you don't know if his voice will fully there or not. Dave

28 Mar 2012, 16:12	#41
samurai7 Rock Star Join Date: 09.05.2005 Location: The future... Posts: 2,928	somebody mentioned that Todd made his living off the back of Bat... The story I heard differs. He wasn't paid much, and funded a lot of it himself, then when it looked to be a flop he sold his producers rights. So.. make of that what you will. As for the comment. So what? you hear people say Meat can't sing, or is over the hill etc every day of the week. It's what YOU believe that matters.

28 Mar 2012, 18:29	#46
The Flying Mouse Armed ba$tard and Jo's other half. Join Date: 06.08.2002 Location: In the middle of nowhere near the end of the line. Posts: 16,104	Enough. This thread has gone from a comment made by TR to a ML Vs JS pissing contest to a I don't know what THis thread has nothing left to say Two more things. Anyone who wishes to make inflamatory/unduly critical posts about Jim should read Meat's post on the subject. Anyone who wishes to make inflamatory/unduly critical posts about Meat should read the forum rules.