Debate

[TheDoode]

I was going to reply to Kathy's post, and the others who have admitted that they haven't read the Voice thread, feel like they have no need to, and have gone on to assume and judge it anyway, but Mr. Happy has already said it all. One thing I will point out though: there was a disclaimer at the very top of that thread stating that it was to be a civil discussion, not focusing on the negative and most DEFINITELY not condoning the posting of comments of an unconstructive or hurtful nature.

But not having read that, you wouldn't know.

And one last point here: there's an awful lot of you who believe you do not fall into the '97%'. I'd think about that, because the math doesn't quite work out...

P.S. Where has the 'dislike' button suddenly disappeared to?

[JennaG]

Originally Posted by TheDoode

I was going to reply to Kathy's post, and the others who have admitted that they haven't read the Voice thread, feel like they have no need to, and have gone on to assume and judge it anyway, but Mr. Happy has already said it all. One thing I will point out though: there was a disclaimer at the very top of that thread stating that it was to be a civil discussion, not focusing on the negative and most DEFINITELY not condoning the posting of comments of an unconstructive or hurtful nature.

But not having read that, you wouldn't know.

And one last point here: there's an awful lot of you who believe you do not fall into the '97%'. I'd think about that, because the math doesn't quite work out...

P.S. Where has the 'dislike' button suddenly disappeared to?

It's there.

Are you trying to cause even more conflict by suggesting that more of us should be taking offence at the 97%?
I have no intention of 'thinking' about the math of it. If Meat Loaf thinks that I'm an evil person then he can, by all means, tell me so directly but until then I'll carry on believing what I damn well choose.

[olblueeyes]

Originally Posted by TheDoode

IAnd one last point here: there's an awful lot of you who believe you do not fall into the '97%'. I'd think about that, because the math doesn't quite work out...

And even more who are still clinging to this 97% figure, that Meat has already since said was exaggerated.

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

[JennaG]

Originally Posted by olblueeyes

And even more who are still clinging to this 97% figure, that Meat has already since said was exaggerated.

Thank you.

He's already said it was exaggerated so those of us who have not taken offence because they do not believe they were included in that total are quite entitled to believe that.

[TheDoode]

Originally Posted by JennaG

It's there.

Really? I don't see it.

Originally Posted by JennaG

Are you trying to cause even more conflict by suggesting that more of us should be taking offence at the 97%?
I have no intention of 'thinking' about the math of it. If Meat Loaf thinks that I'm an evil person then he can, by all means, tell me so directly but until then I'll carry on believing what I damn well choose.

Without being drawn into this: no, I'm not trying to cause conflict. Hence explicitly making a post about not intending to cause conflict. Referring to a thread where I posted a very civil proviso at the top... to avoid conflict.

With regards to the 97% - I'm just expressing my own annoyance, and I'll leave it at that. Unless you make a post that requires a reply.

[AndrewG]

Originally Posted by JennaG

Thank you.

He's already said it was exaggerated so those of us who have not taken offence because they do not believe they were included in that total are quite entitled to believe that.

This is getting crazy....


I think:
Man comes home tells his family to F off.
Family upset.
Next time man comes home man ought to apologise.
Family live happily ever after.

As the top on the forum says "we encourage honest opinion". Nothing in that voice thread was disrespectful, it was all honest. If we are forced to have to say "his voice is now the best ever" that's not honest. It would be propaganda and silly.
I know Meat wears his heart on his sleeve and probably some of the honest opinions do hurt him somewhat I guess, though I don't know why. If someone told me that that person loved my vocal during a certain era I can't understand why I wouldn't take that as a "Damn yes, I did that, this person loved what I did." instead of taking it as a constant negative "oh my voice isn't as good now."

I think Meat should be proud of his past career. I think everyone here looks at it with awe and most are still interested in what might be coming down the track.

[CarylB]

Originally Posted by JennaG

I agree with this. When I read the comments, I looked at them from Meat's perspective and asked myself 'what has made him post those remarks' I could see that there was a lot of hurt underlying the comments. I don't know the exact reasons why he was so hurt but he's not the only person to have ever said something he doesn't mean in a state of emotion and I'm more than happy to show him a little bit of understanding.

Just as I did. And not because I consider myself some super fan .. simply because I like the man, have seen enough to know he's a genuinely decent human being, and my first instinct is to wonder what prompts a hurt and angry outburst from anyone I care about at all.

I thought of the stream of filthy abuse and threats he has had to deal with on his FB page. He then posts positively about a new tour and an album, and comes to his fanclub page to see the response from his fans; sees yet another thread about his voice .. and I DID read it, and there was a preponderance of posts suggesting that his best days were over. (And I agree with Kathy .. his voice is so much a part of who and what he is, I don't think there is any such thing as "constructive criticism" of Meat's voice, unless your name happens to be Eric Vetro either. Meat said some years ago .. I worry enough about my voice for all of us, let me do it please.) And when he comes to the thread about the new album, 5 of the first seven posts before he responded were hardly those of excited and happy fans delighted to hear there would be another album .. but more about "hoping" it would have Steinman songs, not have Avery songs, not be like his latest album etc .. Hardly what a performer would hope to see when he announces his new work in my view.

I'd say too, that at the M&Gs Meat is genuinely wanting to make the time the best experience he can for those there. It is not some well-disciplined act .. and I think it goes beyond professionalism too. It is about warmth, gratitude, and caring for the fans who are there.

The "maths" is an absolute distraction imo, and I don't think worth arguing. Yes, Meat exaggerated wildly because he was hurt .. but sometimes he may feel that there is an awful lot of criticism; I know I do, and I'm not the person who is the subject of it. Like Kathy, I hope that those loyal fans who do feel offended now might reconsider. I know that what he said was not directed at me; it wasn't meant to be directed at them either.

I also feel that continuing to slate him for what happened, stating he should apologise, disapproving that he let fly when he was feeling hurt .. all of this just makes it harder for anyone to say they're sorry. Andrew said man comes home, upsets his family, should apologise. I'd say, man may have had a really hard day. It helps if his family remember that, try to remember he loves them and may not mean exactly what he said, wonder why he is hurting, and don't keep rubbing his nose in his lapse. He will be feeling sorry, and will make it up to them.

To err is human; how many of us never err, never give way to our feelings and regret that we did? .. to allow others their human feelings, to understand and forgive is real humanity.

Caryl

[TheDoode]

Originally Posted by CarylB

I DID read it, and there was a preponderance of posts suggesting that his best days were over. (And I agree with Kathy .. his voice is so much a part of who and what he is, I don't think there is any such thing as "constructive criticism" of Meat's voice, unless your name happens to be Eric Vetro either.

If you read that thread: you should know better. If you picked up on the... wait, I'm counting, TWO posts suggesting that (in that persons own view, to their own taste) Meat Loaf's best vocals were several decades ago, then you read that thread quite selectively indeed, skipping the '97%' positive comments posted there.

Originally Posted by CarylB

I'd say too, that at the M&Gs Meat is genuinely wanting to make the time the best experience he can for those there. It is not some well-disciplined act .. and I think it goes beyond professionalism too. It is about warmth, gratitude, and caring for the fans who are there.

And making money. I'm not saying that the above isn't involved, but let's not forget the real reason that all artists' Meet & Greets exist.

Originally Posted by CarylB

The "maths" is an absolute distraction imo, and I don't think worth arguing.
Caryl

I'm getting really bored of this. This is a discussion forum, not a totalitarian regime. I'm not here to argue with you Caryl, or state the contrary to whatever you say, or even question your degree of fandom, but there are things I just can't agree with, and I'm not going to sit here and not respond.

Doode.

[CarylB]

I'm not here to argue with you Caryl, or state the contrary to whatever you say, or even question your degree of fandom

There was in my view a general tone that Meat's voice had had it's heyday with some graphic representations of his voice peaking and tailing away. It's gone now, so neither of us can point to this or that, and we shall have to agree we disagree .. But, again in my view, there have been enough threads about Meat's voice .. as I think the moderator mentioned when he stopped you discussing on another thread.

[Sarge]

I was about to write a long reply to Kathy's post, but Mr. Happy has already said most of the things I was going to say.

I have just one thing to add regarding her "just for the music is not good enough" statement: To which extent someone gets interested in Meat Loaf and/or his work is up to them - not to you (Kathy), Meat Loaf or anybody else. This is a fan club - not a sect or a dictatorship. Following an artist is a personal issue and no one has the right to interfere with other people's lives that way. This is a fan site, it is not Meat Loaf's site. He is a (voluntary) member here like everyone else - except that that he gets away with breaking forum rules again and again.

Kathy, if you want to unconditionally support Meat Loaf, that's fine. Do as you please, enjoy his concerts. I hope that you'll also understand the point of view of those who have an issue with the way he treats the members of this forum. It's not that this was just a single outburst, it was one in a row of many. This is a place for people to discuss topics that are related to Meat Loaf, not a place for someone to take out their frustration on its members in the way Meat Loaf does.

[chairboys]

There is an element of truth in this 'family' thing.
This fan club/forum seems to have all the dynamics of a family.
Meat is undoubtedly head of the house and we love him for being father and all the pleasure he has given us over the years. Yet, like any dad, he upsets his kids with his outbursts (whether the are justified or not).
But, like a loving family whose love is almost unconditional we tolerate this.
We know he has erred ( and not for the first time) so we mutter between ourselves how evil he his and then we keep our heads down for a while until he has had a good night's sleep and wakes up in the happy jovial and caring mood we know he has.
We won't leave and he won't leave. Because as the Mitchells (from Eastenders) would say " Families stick together!"
Those who have threatened to walk are certainly taking time to put their boots on!
But, I do believe a few need to recognise that Meat was a touch over the top.
Here's to a happy christmas and a rocking new year!

[melon]

Originally Posted by chairboys

But, I do believe a few need to recognise that Meat was a touch over the top.

I've not said that he wasn't, but I see little point in going on about it over and over. I do believe that he probably feels pretty bad about it, as any decent person would.

I understand what its like to blow your top, and its a pretty crap feeling when you look at what you've done.

I'm still behind this guy 100% and never doubted it.

Sent from my HTC Incredible S using Forum Runner

[TheDoode]

Originally Posted by CarylB

There was in my view a general tone that Meat's voice had had it's heyday with some graphic representations of his voice peaking and tailing away. It's gone now, so neither of us can point to this or that, and we shall have to agree we disagree .. But, again in my view, there have been enough threads about Meat's voice .. as I think the moderator mentioned when he stopped you discussing on another thread.

Again, I think you've chosen to be quite selective with what you've read. If you need the proof to back it up, feel free to ask those who contributed to the thread originally.

With regard to the reply above: I think it says it all really; there's no point in even attempting to have a discussion if you're going to respond in a snide, derogatory way to what was a sincere post.

And for the record the moderation stopped 'a' discussion on another thread, he didn't personally stop 'me' from discussion. The subject was deemed off topic, hence the new thread which was on topic.

If you have a problem, personally, I'll suggest that you PM me.

[AndrewG]

Originally Posted by CarylB

I also feel that continuing to slate him for what happened, stating he should apologise, disapproving that he let fly when he was feeling hurt .. all of this just makes it harder for anyone to say they're sorry. Andrew said man comes home, upsets his family, should apologise. I'd say, man may have had a really hard day. It helps if his family remember that, try to remember he loves them and may not mean exactly what he said, wonder why he is hurting, and don't keep rubbing his nose in his lapse. He will be feeling sorry, and will make it up to them.

Meat Loaf is an adult. He should take responsibility and take some of the realities on the chin.

Pitying a perpetrator to the extent some do here is something I would never agree with.

It's not always someone else's fault in my opinion.

I'm pretty sure no-one would have jumped to the defense if someone other than Meat Loaf had posted in that manner regardless of what had gone before.

[Elijah's way]

I'm sure nobody cares but I just voted for President Obama.


And sorry if this is against any rules or whatever.

[GDW]

Originally Posted by Elijah's way

I'm sure nobody cares but I just voted for President Obama.

And sorry if this is against any rules or whatever.

Was it against the rules to vote for Obama?

[Elijah's way]

Originally Posted by GDW

Was it against the rules to vote for Obama?

lol no. I mean to share that info on this forum.

[wizardofodd]

Originally Posted by Elijah's way

I'm sure nobody cares but I just voted for President Obama.


And sorry if this is against any rules or whatever.

Hey if Meat can tell us who he is voting for so can you buddy. Good luck USA today, I hope you make the right decision. Who you elect matters and does effect the rest of the world.

[Cole]

"It saddens me to think that I can't turn back the hands of time "....
My favorite quote by a true genuine man, hopefully after today this can all be put to rest!!

[Vickip]

Meat knows how I feel about him ... which, in all honestly, is all that truly matters to me.
So instead of thinking about what he said, why not spend the time looking at yourselves and
think about why he felt the need to say it ?

[Adje]

Originally Posted by Vickip

So instead of thinking about what he said, why not spend the time looking at yourselves and
think about why he felt the need to say it ?

Well I guess something about reason and respect. Which were both missing in his post.

But then again it would only have been important to some of us here if it was said TO Meat Loaf. Now, because it bursted out of his mouth, we should wave it away and find guilt in ourselves.

So I humored you and looked in the mirror and my conclusion... On the vocal issue he had NO reason as it was discussed with the most respect. And for the political issue he had to respond because some of us felt we had to respond on something he himself started in public. Something he knew all too well would create discussion.

Either way Meat is at least equaly part of everything. Although some use a well mannered tone and others not so

[realViking]

Hey you guys....Realviking is back

Got quite dry eyes from reading all the comments in this forum.
First I was shocked, then I got angry. After a while I got heart beat, now I'm calm again
Was a lot to read through, a lot of opinions and angry comments. Not only from the Meat, but from the fans too.

I live 10.000 mil away, far over the big sea, and has no knowledge to Usa `s policy, and therefore I feel I`m not the one to start disscussing this.

Everyone, and I mean everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but not everybody has the right to use these to defame / bully one individual.
You can say your opinions in an adult and respectful manner.
People who criticize and destroy will always exist, but the way the rest of us with a heart of respect and love can handle it, is what matter.

For my part I've fallen in love with Meats music and his personality and devotion to family and people around him.
This has made me a better "thinking and loving" mom and girlfriend.

I became a mother for the second time on August 13 this year, to a beautiful little boy, and when I was in the hospital with terrible pain, I had Meats music in my earplugs. This calmed me incredibly much.

Hoping to go to the UK in April, and finally get to experience this live.
I can honestly say that I am a true fan, even though I don`t agree everytime with Meats comments.
I don`t agree with my fiancee everytime, but that doesnt mean I don`t love him ))

See ya`ll later, alligators
Hugs from Tine

[Sarge]

Originally Posted by Adje

And for the political issue he had to respond because some of us felt we had to respond on something he himself started in public.

As for his complaints about the reactions to it: He did not just state that he favored a particular candidate. He campaigned for him. He publicly urged people to vote for that candidate and talk everybody they know into doing the same. He just didn't tell people to wear blue socks instead of grey ones, he told them to do something that might affect their lives, the lives of their fellow countrymen and probably the lives of people in other parts of the world, too. That's not a careless decision to make. The moment you do that, you take on responsibility. If you decide to enter that minefield called politics, have the guts to deal with the consequences of your statements and actions. Expect that what you say and do will come under scrutiny and that there will be people who disagree with you.

[R.]

Don't look at just one thread only. Look further and take time into your consideration. Do you think this issue started just recently? I'll answer that question for you: No. I just skimmed through recent posts and wrote down a few words that got my attention. Here they are:

fairly good, struggles, far from perfect, terrible, screaming, weakest, disappointing, autotune, terrible, stupid, bad, lying, worst, painful, disrespectful, mediocre, horrid, slow, passionless, flat

And now, look at the top left corner of this page. Right, that's his stage name, his trademark. Imagine there was a website with your name on top and on that site people would post comments like I mentioned above regarding your work/art over and over again - how would you react?

Originally Posted by Adje

Well I guess something about reason and respect. Which were both missing in his post.

But then again it would only have been important to some of us here if it was said TO Meat Loaf. Now, because it bursted out of his mouth, we should wave it away and find guilt in ourselves.

So I humored you and looked in the mirror and my conclusion... On the vocal issue he had NO reason as it was discussed with the most respect. And for the political issue he had to respond because some of us felt we had to respond on something he himself started in public. Something he knew all too well would create discussion.

Either way Meat is at least equaly part of everything. Although some use a well mannered tone and others not so

[Vickip]

Originally Posted by R.

Don't look at just one thread only. Look further and take time into your consideration. Do you think this issue started just recently? I'll answer that question for you: No. I just skimmed through recent posts and wrote down a few words that got my attention. Here they are: And now, look at the top left corner of this page. Right, that's his stage name, his trademark. Imagine there was a website with your name on top and on that site people would post comments like I mentioned above regarding your work/art over and over again - how would you react?

Yes, exactly ! Thank you !