It don't mean a thing ....(if it ain't got that Jim) - Page 2

dottie · 18 May 2003, 20:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by jcmoorehead

I think the point is. This is a great album but reviewers won't let it be good because Steinman had nothing to do with it.

Verily so

dottie · 18 May 2003, 20:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by mariella

Hi Dottie,

Furious!!!

Know there are a lot of narrow minded people out there. This is definately one of them. Sorry for him though, if you write like this, don't think you are a very happy person. Too bad for him..

Please tell me one thing, did he also say the bit that it don't mean a thing if it ain't got that Jim? Hope not, because that would be very disrespectful.

Well, of to throw some (old) plates on the floor as hard as I can, be back soon 'my happy self'!

Mariella

Yes Mariella thats the actual title of the article which is very long

mariella · 18 May 2003, 20:41

Thank you Dottie, whoever wrote this should go wash his mouth with soap right now. He is a fool who doesn't know what he is talking about.

So, what do we do? Lynch this guy, or ignore him?

Might be better to ignore him, won't have any plates left if I give this another thought.

But if you guys should decide 'to go after him' I am with you!!!

Mariella

coupe-de-ville · 18 May 2003, 21:26

I actually picked up this magazine in the supermarket and read the article whilst I was stood there. The things he was saying, really got me annoyed. Why must some reviewer compare every album to Bat 1 etc, every album has its own unique sound and CHSIB sounds fantastic to me.

Chris · 18 May 2003, 21:55

Just bear in mind that when the magazine publishes its lists of the staffs' record collection/all time faves etc etc, Meat never appears there. I suppose that when these people have made their minds up that they do not like an artist they then close their minds to all other possibilities.

Also, if people are anyhting like me (whcih very few people are thankfully!!) Ask yourself how many times you ahve heard 1 bad song by an artist and it has put you off that artist for a while??

Having said that, pass me the shotgun folks, theres a varmint needs shooting!!!!!!

Rob The Badger · 18 May 2003, 22:44

Hey, long time no see for me. But I thought I needed to say something.
Music critics are only doing their job.
Now, this review is not biased. He has a point. Meat Loafs non-Steinman albums are always lacklustre when one compares them to the likes of Bat I and II and even Dead Ringer. Not to say that these albums are bad, but Steinman's albums are so good, that they fail in comparison. Now, the purpose of a review is to inform the consumer. What he is trying to say is to people who have never bought a Meat Loaf album. He's saying, don't buy this, buy Bat Out Of Hell. And I totally agree.
Now, the problem lies then in finding another rock songwriter as good as Jim Steinman, and you'd be hardpressed to find one, that leaves you with a sense of Steinman wannabe albums, which always end up not making the grade, in comparison to Steinmans albums.
Of course, I do agree that to continually base ones opinions on an artist soley in comparison to the greatest album they ever made is narrow-minded, there are some valid points.
And of course, we as fans are biased to some degree.
So I say, read reviews by guys like Stuart Maconie.
If you want to read unbiased music reviews, go to www.q4music.com, or buy the mag.
Amyway, I have a great deal of respect for the music press, and it irritates me when people get the wrong impression.
Sorry.

mariella · 18 May 2003, 23:43

Hi Eyore,

I haven't read the whole 'review', not going to either. But I think it is VERY disrespectful to say 'it don't mean a thing if it ain't got that Jim' no matter 'how funny' this may have looked to him.

To suggest that anyone who has never bought a Meat Loaf album should buy Bat, is really saying, well Meat is only doing something worth listening to if Steinman wrote the songs. I think this is absolutely ridiculous.

I usually just ignore 'bad' reviews, the only reason I even bother to react to this one, is because I feel it was disrespectful.
All other negative reviews (and even this one) serve a purpose, people talk about the album. And I really don't think they have that much influence if people buy the album or not. People can listen for themselves..

Great day to you,

Mariella

Michael Marxen · 18 May 2003, 23:50

Most of the comments here don´t do the review justice.

1. It is the biggest featured review in this month classic rock (two full sides wit the picture), which means good promotion anyhow.
2. It rates the album "Good" (3/5)
3. It shows deep inside knowledge of the world of SteinMeatmusic.
4. Many things said are true IMO, like that it is Meats best non- Steinman-album or the mentioned fillers (Do It and Because Of You).

Although the review does not share my enthusiasm about CHSIB at all, I was actually pretty satisfied when reading it.

ChrisBelfast · 19 May 2003, 01:44

I was annoyed at this review in parts too. But before we comment its only fair to look at both sides. Yes the review had negative points, but it had good too, id rather focus on them. "His best attempt yet" and also " Meat remains a terrific singer" " And a marvelously baroque stage character." It then gives the album a "Good" rating(3/5)
I think this review is getting at the song writers, not Meat.

By the way there is a 1/2 page advert for BOOH 25th Anniversary in the mag. Q magazine also has a 1/2page add for CHSIB.

Meanwhile, go vote for Meat as the best live act on Rolling Stone Magazine online
http://www.rollingstone.com/survey/dynamic/default.asp
You need to type him in the “others” box as he isn’t one of the acts already listed!

Finally Meat is in this months FHM magazine

ChoccyBat · 19 May 2003, 01:51

Eyecore:

The reason we get wound up with a lot of the music press - but by no means all- is that they seem to have something against meat, something which physically prevents them from saying anything good about him. I mean go back to Bat 1 - he was absolutely SLATED and called the worst rock artist in the world - FACT! - yet now the press are saying that Bat 1 is fantastic and the only album of meats we should listen to!!! And that is only because it is one of the top 3 selling albums of all time. They are very fickle, and continue to slate this album in some quarters despite the fact it went in at number 4 and is still in the charts at 16.

None of us are biased enough to think this blows Bat 1/2 out of the water, but if you strive for perfection you are always dissapointed. Anyway, they slate him for not being as good as Steinman and then when he produces something excellent like the Single CHSIB, they say he is just doing a JimItation!!! The guy can't win!

Anyway its the public that counts and the sales of the album and tour dates show what they think of him!!!

ChrisBelfast · 19 May 2003, 01:55

One thing tho, ive read british magazines for this month with meat reviews in them and they all LOVE Love you out loud, i think it wasQ Mag, must check, that had it as the highlight of the album. So if meat needs any ideas for the next single, this one is very popular even with the critics.

Kat · 19 May 2003, 01:59

Hey he's entitled to his opinion!!
"Come writers and critics who prophesise with your pen...."

yeah I know I can't spell

ChrisBelfast · 19 May 2003, 02:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Marxen

3. It shows deep inside knowledge of the world of SteinMeatmusic.

This was good to see, at least the reviwewr did his homework before casting an opinion, unlike many other reviewers. He knew things about Steinman i dint know - that he couldnt drive!!??

mariella · 19 May 2003, 09:59

So, Jim can't drive a car.
Yes, very important detail.

Great day to you,

Mariella

ChrisBelfast · 19 May 2003, 13:29

he knew a background of meat and jim albums, he knew of pandorra box, amonst other things, all im saying is at least he took the time to research. How many reviews have u read that does that? By the way the driving comment was a bit of humour

mariella · 19 May 2003, 13:52

Thank you for making me laugh, Chris.
And you are right, at least he did some research.

Great day day to you,

Mariella

Rob The Badger · 19 May 2003, 15:51

Some critics are terribly overbiased sometimes...and I do agree that is disrespectful to say things like this, I don't think any harm was intended.

Renegade Angel · 19 May 2003, 20:36

The music press have always had it in for Meats music, although Q magazine did give CHSIB a pretty good review and they gave a great review to the Bat 25th Anniversary.

Anyway Good subject to discuss, well done to Dottie for starting it off.

dottie · 19 May 2003, 21:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renegade Angel

The music press have always had it in for Meats music, although Q magazine did give CHSIB a pretty good review and they gave a great review to the Bat 25th Anniversary.

Anyway Good subject to discuss, well done to Dottie for starting it off.

Thanks Renegade Angel

tbuck · 19 May 2003, 22:11

Yes dottie, glad you brought this up.

This is the review I referred to in an earlier thread, thought it was worthless so didn't go much further than to post this fact- in the text of this CHSIB review, Jim is mentioned by name 16 times and Meat 15 times.

The reviewer is using the release of CHSIB to praise and laud Jim, not to actually review the album. Very poor work on his part. JMHO

T

MBrevard · 20 May 2003, 01:17

Hi, Terry! Thanks. I hadn't realized this was that same article. No wonder everyone is up in arms!!!

The Steinman website posted a copy of it a couple weeks ago or more and I was infuriated by it then! Of course, THEY loved it. It's all about Jim--not Meat!!

This is NOT a case of unbiased reviewing by any means! It was obviously written by a Jim fan who can't see Meat beyond Jim. And what a shame that is because there is SO MUCH MORE to Meat Loaf than just Jim Steinman!! It's not that I don't love them together because, like everyone else here, I do! But Meat has so much more to offer than just that pairing.

It's just TOO easy (and totally unfair) to dismiss albums like CHSIB or Welcome to the Neighborhood because of Jim's lack of involvement. Plus, it's a total cut of Meat's talent and creativity, as well as his ability to select the songs that are good for him, right for him--ones he wants or needs to sing!!

I know that a lot of you feel the same as I do about this particular debate--but I suppose we'll be having it from here to eternity. It's just so unfair AND inaccurate to dismiss Meat and HIS contribution(s) to every project he's been involved in!!! It's infuriating and maddening, isn't it??!!

And I know, as the album after this one (you know, the one we're NOT talking about until next year

) gets closer to completion, these kinds of discussions are bound to get more heated and devisive.

I love Meat. I love Jim. I have absolutely NO PROBLEM enjoying their work together, as well as the works they have continued to do individually. As far as I'm concerned, it's good for partners to go off and do other things, because when they DO come back to each other, they have new things to bring to the mix! It's healthy! It's an expansion of horizons. How can that NOT be good for everyone concerned???!!

For the life of me, I just cannot understand why there must be this 'competition,' this animosity, this rivalry that the fans set up between them! I've tried to understand and to take the history of the two into account. But it's still feels SO senseless and such a waste of time and energy!!

Love to all,
MB
xxx

sherrie87 · 20 May 2003, 04:14

Preach it, MB!!!!

Sherrie

Fire Ball · 20 May 2003, 04:39

I agree with MB, Eveyone in the band has had words with that site ,We have never understood them. Do not understand that site.

Meat

Dave · 20 May 2003, 04:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fire Ball

I agree with MB, Eveyone in the band has had words with that site ,We have never understood them. Do not understand that site.

Here! Here!

I have given up on them a long time ago. It is very sad to see someone tell you in an AOL instant message they LOVE the album, but cannot say so in a public forum because they are worried about who they would offend. Do they not care they offended me by saying this. I have lost a couple online friends over this album. It is worth it! I would say this is SIMPLY THE BEST product Meat Loaf has ever put out that is a collaboration of many different songwriters. Each and every song is perfect for the completion of the "feel" of the project. It might be just me, but this album was meant to be listened to as a "whole," not a portion at a time. When you haul one song out of the mix it takes away some of the perfection of the "piece."

ROCK ON FIRE BALL!!!
CANNOT WAIT TO SEE YOU IN IOWA & CLEVELAND!!!

MBrevard · 20 May 2003, 05:28

Thanks, Meat!!

Love you,
MB
xxx

20 May 2003, 04:39	#48
Fire Ball Himself Join Date: 05.02.2003 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 1,044	Jim is great! I agree with MB, Eveyone in the band has had words with that site ,We have never understood them. Do not understand that site. Meat

18 May 2003, 20:41	#28
mariella Mega Loafer Join Date: 04.02.2003 Location: Holland Posts: 4,063	Thank you Dottie, whoever wrote this should go wash his mouth with soap right now. He is a fool who doesn't know what he is talking about. So, what do we do? Lynch this guy, or ignore him? Might be better to ignore him, won't have any plates left if I give this another thought. But if you guys should decide 'to go after him' I am with you!!! Mariella

18 May 2003, 21:26	#29
coupe-de-ville Rookie Join Date: 25.04.2003 Location: Bury, Lancashire Posts: 20	I actually picked up this magazine in the supermarket and read the article whilst I was stood there. The things he was saying, really got me annoyed. Why must some reviewer compare every album to Bat 1 etc, every album has its own unique sound and CHSIB sounds fantastic to me.

18 May 2003, 21:55	#30
Chris Mega Loafer Join Date: 14.04.2002 Location: Somewhere in the real world. Posts: 7,527	Just bear in mind that when the magazine publishes its lists of the staffs' record collection/all time faves etc etc, Meat never appears there. I suppose that when these people have made their minds up that they do not like an artist they then close their minds to all other possibilities. Also, if people are anyhting like me (whcih very few people are thankfully!!) Ask yourself how many times you ahve heard 1 bad song by an artist and it has put you off that artist for a while?? Having said that, pass me the shotgun folks, theres a varmint needs shooting!!!!!!

18 May 2003, 22:44	#31
Rob The Badger Too sexy for this post Join Date: 14.04.2002 Location: Manchester, UK Posts: 2,895	Hey, long time no see for me. But I thought I needed to say something. Music critics are only doing their job. Now, this review is not biased. He has a point. Meat Loafs non-Steinman albums are always lacklustre when one compares them to the likes of Bat I and II and even Dead Ringer. Not to say that these albums are bad, but Steinman's albums are so good, that they fail in comparison. Now, the purpose of a review is to inform the consumer. What he is trying to say is to people who have never bought a Meat Loaf album. He's saying, don't buy this, buy Bat Out Of Hell. And I totally agree. Now, the problem lies then in finding another rock songwriter as good as Jim Steinman, and you'd be hardpressed to find one, that leaves you with a sense of Steinman wannabe albums, which always end up not making the grade, in comparison to Steinmans albums. Of course, I do agree that to continually base ones opinions on an artist soley in comparison to the greatest album they ever made is narrow-minded, there are some valid points. And of course, we as fans are biased to some degree. So I say, read reviews by guys like Stuart Maconie. If you want to read unbiased music reviews, go to www.q4music.com, or buy the mag. Amyway, I have a great deal of respect for the music press, and it irritates me when people get the wrong impression. Sorry.

18 May 2003, 23:43	#32
mariella Mega Loafer Join Date: 04.02.2003 Location: Holland Posts: 4,063	Hi Eyore, I haven't read the whole 'review', not going to either. But I think it is VERY disrespectful to say 'it don't mean a thing if it ain't got that Jim' no matter 'how funny' this may have looked to him. To suggest that anyone who has never bought a Meat Loaf album should buy Bat, is really saying, well Meat is only doing something worth listening to if Steinman wrote the songs. I think this is absolutely ridiculous. I usually just ignore 'bad' reviews, the only reason I even bother to react to this one, is because I feel it was disrespectful. All other negative reviews (and even this one) serve a purpose, people talk about the album. And I really don't think they have that much influence if people buy the album or not. People can listen for themselves.. Great day to you, Mariella

18 May 2003, 23:50	#33
Michael Marxen Super Loafer Join Date: 04.02.2003 Location: Cologne, Germany Posts: 356	Most of the comments here don´t do the review justice. 1. It is the biggest featured review in this month classic rock (two full sides wit the picture), which means good promotion anyhow. 2. It rates the album "Good" (3/5) 3. It shows deep inside knowledge of the world of SteinMeatmusic. 4. Many things said are true IMO, like that it is Meats best non- Steinman-album or the mentioned fillers (Do It and Because Of You). Although the review does not share my enthusiasm about CHSIB at all, I was actually pretty satisfied when reading it.

19 May 2003, 01:44	#34
ChrisBelfast Mega Loafer Join Date: 18.02.2003 Location: Posts: 1,061	I was annoyed at this review in parts too. But before we comment its only fair to look at both sides. Yes the review had negative points, but it had good too, id rather focus on them. "His best attempt yet" and also " Meat remains a terrific singer" " And a marvelously baroque stage character." It then gives the album a "Good" rating(3/5) I think this review is getting at the song writers, not Meat. By the way there is a 1/2 page advert for BOOH 25th Anniversary in the mag. Q magazine also has a 1/2page add for CHSIB. Meanwhile, go vote for Meat as the best live act on Rolling Stone Magazine online http://www.rollingstone.com/survey/dynamic/default.asp You need to type him in the “others” box as he isn’t one of the acts already listed! Finally Meat is in this months FHM magazine

19 May 2003, 01:51	#35
ChoccyBat Yorkie Join Date: 28.07.2002 Location: York Posts: 415	Eyecore: The reason we get wound up with a lot of the music press - but by no means all- is that they seem to have something against meat, something which physically prevents them from saying anything good about him. I mean go back to Bat 1 - he was absolutely SLATED and called the worst rock artist in the world - FACT! - yet now the press are saying that Bat 1 is fantastic and the only album of meats we should listen to!!! And that is only because it is one of the top 3 selling albums of all time. They are very fickle, and continue to slate this album in some quarters despite the fact it went in at number 4 and is still in the charts at 16. None of us are biased enough to think this blows Bat 1/2 out of the water, but if you strive for perfection you are always dissapointed. Anyway, they slate him for not being as good as Steinman and then when he produces something excellent like the Single CHSIB, they say he is just doing a JimItation!!! The guy can't win! Anyway its the public that counts and the sales of the album and tour dates show what they think of him!!!

19 May 2003, 01:55	#36
ChrisBelfast Mega Loafer Join Date: 18.02.2003 Location: Posts: 1,061	One thing tho, ive read british magazines for this month with meat reviews in them and they all LOVE Love you out loud, i think it wasQ Mag, must check, that had it as the highlight of the album. So if meat needs any ideas for the next single, this one is very popular even with the critics.

19 May 2003, 01:59	#37
Kat Senior Loafer Join Date: 28.04.2003 Location: Somerset, UK Posts: 148	Hey he's entitled to his opinion!! "Come writers and critics who prophesise with your pen...." yeah I know I can't spell

19 May 2003, 09:59	#39
mariella Mega Loafer Join Date: 04.02.2003 Location: Holland Posts: 4,063	So, Jim can't drive a car. Yes, very important detail. Great day to you, Mariella

19 May 2003, 13:29	#40
ChrisBelfast Mega Loafer Join Date: 18.02.2003 Location: Posts: 1,061	he knew a background of meat and jim albums, he knew of pandorra box, amonst other things, all im saying is at least he took the time to research. How many reviews have u read that does that? By the way the driving comment was a bit of humour

19 May 2003, 13:52	#41
mariella Mega Loafer Join Date: 04.02.2003 Location: Holland Posts: 4,063	Thank you for making me laugh, Chris. And you are right, at least he did some research. Great day day to you, Mariella

19 May 2003, 15:51	#42
Rob The Badger Too sexy for this post Join Date: 14.04.2002 Location: Manchester, UK Posts: 2,895	Some critics are terribly overbiased sometimes...and I do agree that is disrespectful to say things like this, I don't think any harm was intended.

19 May 2003, 20:36	#43
Renegade Angel Super Loafer Join Date: 20.04.2003 Location: UK Posts: 551	The music press have always had it in for Meats music, although Q magazine did give CHSIB a pretty good review and they gave a great review to the Bat 25th Anniversary. Anyway Good subject to discuss, well done to Dottie for starting it off.

19 May 2003, 22:11	#45
tbuck Super Loafer Join Date: 14.04.2002 Location: USA Posts: 355	Yes dottie, glad you brought this up. This is the review I referred to in an earlier thread, thought it was worthless so didn't go much further than to post this fact- in the text of this CHSIB review, Jim is mentioned by name 16 times and Meat 15 times. The reviewer is using the release of CHSIB to praise and laud Jim, not to actually review the album. Very poor work on his part. JMHO T

20 May 2003, 01:17	#46
MBrevard Super Loafer Join Date: 06.02.2003 Location: Deceased Posts: 761	Hi, Terry! Thanks. I hadn't realized this was that same article. No wonder everyone is up in arms!!! The Steinman website posted a copy of it a couple weeks ago or more and I was infuriated by it then! Of course, THEY loved it. It's all about Jim--not Meat!! This is NOT a case of unbiased reviewing by any means! It was obviously written by a Jim fan who can't see Meat beyond Jim. And what a shame that is because there is SO MUCH MORE to Meat Loaf than just Jim Steinman!! It's not that I don't love them together because, like everyone else here, I do! But Meat has so much more to offer than just that pairing. It's just TOO easy (and totally unfair) to dismiss albums like CHSIB or Welcome to the Neighborhood because of Jim's lack of involvement. Plus, it's a total cut of Meat's talent and creativity, as well as his ability to select the songs that are good for him, right for him--ones he wants or needs to sing!! I know that a lot of you feel the same as I do about this particular debate--but I suppose we'll be having it from here to eternity. It's just so unfair AND inaccurate to dismiss Meat and HIS contribution(s) to every project he's been involved in!!! It's infuriating and maddening, isn't it??!! And I know, as the album after this one (you know, the one we're NOT talking about until next year ) gets closer to completion, these kinds of discussions are bound to get more heated and devisive. I love Meat. I love Jim. I have absolutely NO PROBLEM enjoying their work together, as well as the works they have continued to do individually. As far as I'm concerned, it's good for partners to go off and do other things, because when they DO come back to each other, they have new things to bring to the mix! It's healthy! It's an expansion of horizons. How can that NOT be good for everyone concerned???!! For the life of me, I just cannot understand why there must be this 'competition,' this animosity, this rivalry that the fans set up between them! I've tried to understand and to take the history of the two into account. But it's still feels SO senseless and such a waste of time and energy!! Love to all, MB xxx

20 May 2003, 04:14	#47
sherrie87 Mega Loafer Join Date: 20.02.2003 Location: Largo, FL Posts: 1,262	Preach it, MB!!!! Sherrie

20 May 2003, 05:28	#50
MBrevard Super Loafer Join Date: 06.02.2003 Location: Deceased Posts: 761	Thanks, Meat!! Love you, MB xxx