What being a fan means to me... - Page 2

Julie in the rv mirror · 17 Mar 2010, 08:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by meat_loaf2008

being a fan to me means that i support meat in everything he does, whether i like it or not, and I even try to promote meats work to my friends, hell, i even sing his songs and do my own tribute show at various events around the state for charities when i can be arsed. I have never seen meat live, but i find other ways of supporting him. Isn't that what matters?

Of course, supporting the artist in whatever way you can or is right for you is what matters.

I don't think there is any checklist to pass to be considered a fan.

Quote:

Originally Posted by suzieq

I'm going to really think about this one before posting however, a quick look up and three references will take a literal definition of fan (short for fanatic) as: marked by excessive enthusiasm and often intense uncritical devotion (Merriam Webster online) OR Fanaticism is a belief or behavior involving uncritical zeal or with an obsessive enthusiasm for a pastime or hobby (Wiki) OR a person with an extreme and uncritical enthusiasm or zeal, as in religion or politics (Dictionary.com).

I see a common word here: uncritical

I know you didn't write these definitions, but I nonetheless disagree with the notion that to be a fan (of anyone/anything) you have to be totally uncritical. Take away the emotional component of the "relationship" between artist and fan (and I say this purely from the fan perspective, obviously), and bottom line, you are a consumer. The artist is selling a product. In that aspect, I'm not going to buy a product I don't like, even if that product is a record by my favorite artist. Of course, if the artist is my favorite, the chances of my disliking one of their records so much that I wouldn't buy it are small. I just don't feel that I'm obligated to buy it (or say that I like it) or turn in my fan membership card.

*AndyK* · 17 Mar 2010, 11:36

This conversation is going to be an

Jayd · 17 Mar 2010, 11:54

I am a Meat Loaf fan, have been since a young kid, I am now almost 31 so that is a long time, maybe not as long as others, but a long time. But this does not make me a bigger or less a fan of Meat than someone who became a fan last week, or last month or last year. I like Meat for his music, for his enthusiasm he has for his work, he gives it his all, sometimes it is not great, sometimes it is outstanding. What he does will not please everyone, but that is tough shit really, because he has got an awful lot of fans to impress with his work, and not everyone is going to like what he does. I think this is coming down to his recent piece of work, and who is going to like it, and who is not because of Meat's, I won't say modern approach, I will say different. People do have their opinions, but I think they do need to remember, if you are going to post any negative comments, not to cross the line, because at the end of the day, this is a Meat Loaf fan site, with many many Meat fans, who will defend the guy, and also it's Meat's site, he comes on here quite often. I know he knows he is going to face criticism with anything he does , but he has feelings too, and he works damn hard to try and please not just his fans, not just his label, his family or friends, but also himself.

CarylB · 17 Mar 2010, 13:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Julie in the rv mirror

Now, I think, of course, that part of the "job" of being a fan (of anyone/ anything) is to be a bit of a cheerleader, and that just comes naturally. But, I don't think it makes me any less of a fan if I express a negative opinion now and then. Think of a Randy Jackson-on-Idol-type, "Dude, that wasn't your best performance..." It doesn't mean I love them any less.

Agreed, and saying Dude that wasn't your best performance certainly doesn't mean someone cares any less .. in fact it demonstrates quite a senstive level of care imo .. and paves the way for what is to come .. as long as that isn't a long list of failings delivered abrasively without any useful suggestions for what would improve it of course

I guess for me being a fan means you care for the whole enchilada .. so includes both the performance and the person who gives it, and that means caring about their feelings (and even when we don't care for people, if we want what we say to do anything more than put them on the defensive, or have them simply dismiss what we say, then we need to find a way of telling them why something wasn't acceptable or up to the standard we expected so that it doesn't immediately evoke that kind of response).

To say for eg that a video doesn't really appeal to you although you can see the audience it's aiming at, but that you'd have preferred something more this or that is expressing your view in a way that is reasonable and unlikely to result in a negative reaction .. describing how the person looks in colourful or ridiculing terms that amuse you isn't helpful imo. It's criticism, but there's nothing very constructive about it

And if someone has invested time, effort and money in producing something, to suggest they throw it away and start again because you don't like it would be thoughtless, bordering on the arrogant or daft imo. For constructive feedback (or even criticism) to be any use at all it must offer something that is feasibly actionable, as well as delivered in words that are chosen with care so as not to hurt the person's feelings. And many fans simply don't have the performance skills to be able to offer the constructing end of the sandwich. I'm one of those, so I don't attempt to offer "constructive criticism". Doesn't mean I'm as "ass-kisser" or "sucking up" .. I can't offer credible advice to someone who has so much more more experience and expertise than I, but I can say what I enjoyed and why.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jayd

I know he knows he is going to face criticism with anything he does , but he has feelings too, and he works damn hard to try and please not just his fans, not just his label, his family or friends, but also himself.

So true. Sometimes the things I see written seem to me much more about the disappointed feelings of the person delivering them. Such criticism is rarely, if ever, constructive. And bottom line, for me being a fan of someone means I would not want to hurt that person, and if I was angry or disappointed by something they did I would keep my fingers off a keyboard until I could be constructive.

Caryl

JennaG · 17 Mar 2010, 13:13

I’ve not been a member here all that long but this is a question that has been asked several times on other forums that I am a member of and each time it has made me stop and thing about what it means to be a fan. As a teenager it meant that I HAD to enjoy every single piece of work an actor/singer did but as I got older my thoughts on the matter changed.

- It’s okay not to like everything Meat does and it’s okay to have an opinion on his work but to me being a fan is to accept that he is human, he can’t be perfect all the time and that he has feelings. No one likes to have their work ripped apart and I imagine it’s quite upsetting if that criticism is coming from someone that calls themselves a fan. There’s nothing wrong with a little bit of constructive criticism, but it has to be written very carefully as things can easily be taken the wrong way. If I write something negative, I will always find something positive to say as well.

- Being a fan means that I look forward to each new project and that I consider each contribution on its own merits. Just because I don’t like one song on an album, or a particular album, doesn’t change my overall feelings about an artist.

- Just because I’m a fan of Meat Loaf doesn’t mean that he is the only artist I like. In fact Meat is one of two artists that I feel strongly about.

mszee · 17 Mar 2010, 18:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndyK

This conversation is going to be an

Your cubicle at work????

**Monstro** · 17 Mar 2010, 19:05

Nah, that's his pay scale lol

*AndyK* · 17 Mar 2010, 19:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monstro

Nah, that's his pay scale lol

Having just put down the phone after talking to my boss about this years payrise ... there's no lol-ing going on here

**Monstro** · 17 Mar 2010, 19:09

See... I was right

nikox1 · 17 Mar 2010, 19:21

being a meat loaf fan to me means? emmmmmmmmmmmm!!!!!
f**k its st.patricks day!! 13 pints and counting

daveake · 17 Mar 2010, 19:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by nikox1

being a meat loaf fan to me means? emmmmmmmmmmmm!!!!!
f**k its st.patricks day!! 13 pints and counting

If you can still count after 13 pints, then either you have a stronger constitution than I do, or you actually lost count at the 2-pint mark and have only had 1 since.

Dave

nikox1 · 17 Mar 2010, 19:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by daveake

If you can still count after 13 pints, then either you have a stronger constitution than I do, or you actually lost count at the 2-pint mark and have only had 1 since.

Dave

now that has got me thinking? and thinking hurts!!
no!! wait, the room im in is blue, but should be green? 13 pints so

daveake · 17 Mar 2010, 19:27

It'll be green quite soon ...

nikox1 · 17 Mar 2010, 19:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by daveake

It'll be green quite soon ...

not at all!! its only half time

Paul191 · 17 Mar 2010, 20:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evil One

Praise without constructive criticism is useless.

I think it's possible to criticise something and make it useful, but not all praise is intended to be useful. I think some people give praise because they like to give credit where credit is due in the hope it will inspire more provocative and stimulating work.

lorenzoduke · 17 Mar 2010, 20:25

Why post constructive criticism of an album that has already been recorded? Do you think Meat will go back and change it for you? Do you have some sort of obligation to buy it if you don't like it? Or could you just not buy it, say you don't like it and won't buy it if you feel the need to do so, and let others enjoy it without having to sift through all your negativity on what is after all supposed to be a fan club site?

mszee · 17 Mar 2010, 20:47

This is what I don't get...why call somebody's opinion necessarily criticism?

This is a forum (please read the definition of forum)...We are all here because we're fans...and we want to talk to people who are fans as well...we want to exchange the opinions...good or bad...

Honestly...if I had to read here day in and day out...Thank you, Meat...I don't know if it would be worth coming.

Lucky me...I LOVE new video and it started the fire under me...so it's all good...

BUT...I am not less a fan because I don't own every single that came out. I am not less a fan if I don't like every single thing.

I AM a fan...just come with me to any Meat's concert and see me going into complete and utter rapture...I have yet to take a good picture or notice a problem during the concert...or be able to recreate a single set list...cause I am in rapture...

Debates are good, forums are good...let's just respect each other and Meat...

Evil One · 17 Mar 2010, 21:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by lorenzoduke

Why post constructive criticism of an album that has already been recorded? Do you think Meat will go back and change it for you? Do you have some sort of obligation to buy it if you don't like it? Or could you just not buy it, say you don't like it and won't buy it if you feel the need to do so, and let others enjoy it without having to sift through all your negativity on what is after all supposed to be a fan club site?

If I spend my hard earned money on a Meat Loaf product then surely I am entitled to give my opinion on it?

Quote:

Originally Posted by mszee

Honestly...if I had to read here day in and day out...Thank you, Meat...I don't know if it would be worth coming.

Give it a couple of months and they will disappear from whence they came. Until the next tour anyway!

mszee · 17 Mar 2010, 21:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evil One

If I spend my hard earned money on a Meat Loaf product then surely I am entitled to give my opinion on it?

Give it a couple of months and they will disappear from whence they came. Until the next tour anyway!

I know...woodwork has opened up....

lorenzoduke · 17 Mar 2010, 22:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evil One

If I spend my hard earned money on a Meat Loaf product then surely I am entitled to give my opinion on it?

Of course! But I'm entitled to my opinion of French cuisine too - I don't like it. Yet I don't feel the need to go in to French restaurants, walk up to diners and tell them that they're eating crap.

Probably a poor analogy. Like I said, I get people coming here to weigh in on the single and say 'I don't like it because of a. b. and c.' It's the people who think they should have some sort of say in Meat's work and career direction who I think are overstepping the mark by a wide margin. Like a buffet, take what you want and leave the rest. But don't tell the chef how to do his job.

CarylB · 17 Mar 2010, 22:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by lorenzoduke

Like I said, I get people coming here to weigh in on the single and say 'I don't like it because of a. b. and c.' It's the people who think they should have some sort of say in Meat's work and career direction who I think are overstepping the mark by a wide margin. Like a buffet, take what you want and leave the rest. But don't tell the chef how to do his job.

I think that's an excellent analogy ..

I'd also add that it's a bit bizarre when people merely scan the menu, or just taste the hors d'oeuvres before deciding the entire meal is terrible and a sell-out by the chef

And a big difference between saying you don't like the food or style of cuisine because it's perhaps too rich or possibly not spicy enough .. that's reasonable. Denouncing it to all the other customers as crap or garbage is likely to get you thrown out of the restaurant and not allowed back

Caryl

PanicLord · 17 Mar 2010, 22:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by CarylB

Denouncing it to all the other customers as crap or garbage is likely to get you thrown out of the restaurant and not allowed back

Caryl

Yup - and rightly so!

duke knooby · 17 Mar 2010, 23:16

it doesnt suck when youre a fan

Evil One · 17 Mar 2010, 23:17

At no point have I claimed Meat's new album to be crap or garbage. In fact I'm pretty sure my comment was that Los Angeloser does nothing for me but I'm going to wait until I've heard the album before I make any judgement on it.

I don't like french cuisine so I don't go to a french restaurant. I do however like pizza. If I happen to eat in Pizza Hut and they've missed the spicy pork off my meat feast then I will complain.

daveake · 17 Mar 2010, 23:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evil One

At no point have I claimed Meat's new album to be crap or garbage. In fact I'm pretty sure my comment was that Los Angeloser does nothing for me but I'm going to wait until I've heard the album before I make any judgement on it.

Ditto.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evil One

I don't like french cuisine so I don't go to a french restaurant. I do however like pizza. If I happen to eat in Pizza Hut and they've missed the spicy pork off my meat feast then I will complain.

Indeed.

Except I don't go to Pizza Hut anyway 'cos one pizza would blow my salt ration for at least 2 days!

17 Mar 2010, 11:36	#27
AndyK Relentless Join Date: 21.11.2003 Location: Over the top..... seeing what's on the other side Posts: 18,694	This conversation is going to be an

17 Mar 2010, 11:54	#28
Jayd If I could bust into hell....... I would Join Date: 13.06.2003 Location: Montclair, New Jersey Posts: 1,312	I am a Meat Loaf fan, have been since a young kid, I am now almost 31 so that is a long time, maybe not as long as others, but a long time. But this does not make me a bigger or less a fan of Meat than someone who became a fan last week, or last month or last year. I like Meat for his music, for his enthusiasm he has for his work, he gives it his all, sometimes it is not great, sometimes it is outstanding. What he does will not please everyone, but that is tough shit really, because he has got an awful lot of fans to impress with his work, and not everyone is going to like what he does. I think this is coming down to his recent piece of work, and who is going to like it, and who is not because of Meat's, I won't say modern approach, I will say different. People do have their opinions, but I think they do need to remember, if you are going to post any negative comments, not to cross the line, because at the end of the day, this is a Meat Loaf fan site, with many many Meat fans, who will defend the guy, and also it's Meat's site, he comes on here quite often. I know he knows he is going to face criticism with anything he does , but he has feelings too, and he works damn hard to try and please not just his fans, not just his label, his family or friends, but also himself.

17 Mar 2010, 13:13	#30
JennaG Mega Loafer Join Date: 09.02.2010 Location: Posts: 1,934	I’ve not been a member here all that long but this is a question that has been asked several times on other forums that I am a member of and each time it has made me stop and thing about what it means to be a fan. As a teenager it meant that I HAD to enjoy every single piece of work an actor/singer did but as I got older my thoughts on the matter changed. - It’s okay not to like everything Meat does and it’s okay to have an opinion on his work but to me being a fan is to accept that he is human, he can’t be perfect all the time and that he has feelings. No one likes to have their work ripped apart and I imagine it’s quite upsetting if that criticism is coming from someone that calls themselves a fan. There’s nothing wrong with a little bit of constructive criticism, but it has to be written very carefully as things can easily be taken the wrong way. If I write something negative, I will always find something positive to say as well. - Being a fan means that I look forward to each new project and that I consider each contribution on its own merits. Just because I don’t like one song on an album, or a particular album, doesn’t change my overall feelings about an artist. - Just because I’m a fan of Meat Loaf doesn’t mean that he is the only artist I like. In fact Meat is one of two artists that I feel strongly about.

17 Mar 2010, 19:05	#32
Monstro Promoted to Wario's spellchecker Join Date: 17.09.2005 Location: London Posts: 12,946	Nah, that's his pay scale lol

17 Mar 2010, 19:09	#34
Monstro Promoted to Wario's spellchecker Join Date: 17.09.2005 Location: London Posts: 12,946	See... I was right

17 Mar 2010, 19:21	#35
nikox1 Mega Loafer Join Date: 06.07.2007 Location: Front line of the battle Posts: 2,657	being a meat loaf fan to me means? emmmmmmmmmmmm!!!!! f**k its st.patricks day!! 13 pints and counting

17 Mar 2010, 19:27	#38
daveake 200% is the new 110% Join Date: 13.03.2005 Location: Newbury Posts: 2,983	It'll be green quite soon ...

17 Mar 2010, 20:25	#41
lorenzoduke Mega Loafer Join Date: 24.07.2006 Posts: 1,269	Why post constructive criticism of an album that has already been recorded? Do you think Meat will go back and change it for you? Do you have some sort of obligation to buy it if you don't like it? Or could you just not buy it, say you don't like it and won't buy it if you feel the need to do so, and let others enjoy it without having to sift through all your negativity on what is after all supposed to be a fan club site?

17 Mar 2010, 20:47	#42
mszee Mega Loafer Join Date: 29.03.2006 Location: And you think you're down under??? Posts: 26,252	This is what I don't get...why call somebody's opinion necessarily criticism? This is a forum (please read the definition of forum)...We are all here because we're fans...and we want to talk to people who are fans as well...we want to exchange the opinions...good or bad... Honestly...if I had to read here day in and day out...Thank you, Meat...I don't know if it would be worth coming. Lucky me...I LOVE new video and it started the fire under me...so it's all good... BUT...I am not less a fan because I don't own every single that came out. I am not less a fan if I don't like every single thing. I AM a fan...just come with me to any Meat's concert and see me going into complete and utter rapture...I have yet to take a good picture or notice a problem during the concert...or be able to recreate a single set list...cause I am in rapture... Debates are good, forums are good...let's just respect each other and Meat...

17 Mar 2010, 23:16	#48
duke knooby Mega Loafer Join Date: 24.06.2005 Location: belfast Posts: 17,884	it doesnt suck when youre a fan

17 Mar 2010, 23:17	#49
Evil One Mega Loafer Join Date: 15.01.2007 Posts: 5,192	At no point have I claimed Meat's new album to be crap or garbage. In fact I'm pretty sure my comment was that Los Angeloser does nothing for me but I'm going to wait until I've heard the album before I make any judgement on it. I don't like french cuisine so I don't go to a french restaurant. I do however like pizza. If I happen to eat in Pizza Hut and they've missed the spicy pork off my meat feast then I will complain.