McDonalds Vs fat gits with no willpower

[Steve6]

Originally Posted by CarylB

I agree that some psychlogical conditions can be due to chemicals; children's behavioural responses to certain E numbers for eg, or their responses to poor diet. I agree with Jamie Oliver 100% that school meals need to be of the type and quality that encourage attentiveness and discourage obesity. But not all symptoms of ADHD can be laid at the door of what they consume, and children's diet is a responsibility of their parents also.
Caryl

All symtoms of ADHD are dietary. Last November I was diagnosed with ADHD so I know what it's all about!!!! and diet was never discussed much to my anger now. I was pushed onto drugs that made me a zombie for months, and made me worse. I could NEVER focus, I had never ending anxiety attacks. I was also on Effexor for two years, and when I think back of the horror I went through on that stuff, I don't know how I came through it to be honest. I also know a person who's taking drugs for ADHD and he goes out and drinks every weekend, then he walks around wondering why he feels like he does. Why don't doctors focus on cutting out that junk instead looking for the quick fix by handing out drugs? I mean the lesson isn't be learned. You wouldn't have thousands; if not millions of people commiting suicide or commiting terrible crimes if these drugs didn't exist. Children drink coke nearly every day, a child eats a lot of junk food, I did myself. That's why they have ADHD!!!! That's my opinion on the matter. There is always a reason for having a made up disease like ADHD and bipolar. But ask the doctors, psychiatrists, and pharmaceutical companies they'll tell you it's all natural, and you just got it, that's FACT!!!!!!! and in my opinion it's one of the biggest lies in society for decades.

[daveake]

You're making the mistake of extrapolating from your particular case to the whole wide world. It's true of course that sometimes problems are caused by a reaction to certain ingredients, and that sometimes doctors prescribe drugs when a change of diet or lifestyle will do the trick, but both are a small minority of cases. You can't go banning things just because a tiny number of people react to them. Heck, some kids react badly to sunlight so lets ban that, eh? Or should we all live in bubbles because some people would die if exposed to common microbes? Perhaps we should ban the internet because some people post a load of bollocks on it?

Dave

[Evil One]

Originally Posted by Steve6

That's my opinion on the matter.

I drink a glass of fizzy pop every day and eat my fair share of junk food and I'm still pretty healthy. Some people have been ADHD/crazy/mental etc for thousands of years and I'm pretty sure there wasn't Ye Olde McDonalds around to receive all the blame.

[Steve6]

But Dave you are talking as if it's only a few people suffering from the problems I'm talking about. There are millions of people taking prescription drugs around the world everyday. How many people are taking their lives from drug induced mental illness everyday too? I'm not talking about the ordinary person who has no problems with this stuff, and are functioning fine in their daily lives. Keep doing what your doing, but there is a darker side to this stuff that you probaly haven't experienced. There are millions who are having mental problems, and are being misdignosed with mental illness and being told it's natural. That's what I'm angry about. This chemical imbalance in the brain does exist alright, but it's caused by something you have done. It's just not a natural occurrence. That's my opinion on the matter. The whole field of psychiatry is flawed.

[GDW]

That's it!!! I'm not eating at McDonalds anymore. From now on I'm taking it home.

[LucyK!]

Originally Posted by Steve6

It's very hard for me to explain stuff like this to you, because you have no interest in it, and never suffered from anything like I said before.

Just because you post on the same internet forums as people does not mean you know them. You have no idea about the people who post here and what they have and have not experienced and I think it's immensely unfair that you've assumed that no-one can possible understand what you're talking about because no-one has been through what you have - you don't have a clue what we've been through.

Otherwise I agree entirely with Dave, it's about education and choice. I've had/got my fair share of problems - which I'm not prepared to go into here - and it's now up to me how I control them.

If we're using McDonalds as an example, I know that their burgers absolutely kill me, I enjoy them at the time but I know that if I eat one I'll be doubled up in pain because of it. So I have two choices - don't eat it and be fine, or eat it and suffer. It's entirely my choice, and if I choose not to eat one I certainly don't expect everyone else to cut them out too, it's nothing to do with them.

As for ADHD, I taught a lot of children who suffered with it and I'm struggling to find the link between having/getting ADHD and diet. I agree with Caryl entirely that diet does have an impact on people with ADHD, perhaps more so than those that don't suffer with it, and cutting out the E-numbers and caffeine can drastically improve the attitude and behaviour of someone that suffers with it, but I don't for one minute think that "bad" food content can actually give you ADHD in the first place.

[CarylB]

Originally Posted by Steve6

All symtoms of ADHD are dietary.

No, they're not, although I agree that modifying diet may often ease if not remove the associated symptoms. Dave's beat me to it in pointing out that you're taking your own experience, which I'm not doubting, and applying it as a universal truth. You go on to describe both ADHD and bi-polar as "made up diseases", which is as baffling as it's incorrect. You're not an expert on bi-polar disease and to suggest that genuine bi-polar disease is purely food-related is just nonsense, and diminishes the seriousness of the condition for those who have it. And your suggestion that everything that you object to being in existence causes millions of suicides is a wild exaggeration in my view.

A remarkable one in 300 people are estimated to be gluten intolerant; probably a higher percentage than those affected by ADHD or bi-polar. Many are also dairy intolerant. Should we ban wheat, dairy and all wheat and dairy related products as well? Of course not; for most of us they're part of a normal healthy diet.

To hold a strong and emotional opinion doesn't make your view fact. Not all children eat junk food, nor drink coke every day. Both are OK if consumed in moderation and you are active enough to burn off the calories you've taken in, which brings us back to parental education and responsibility, and adults taking responsiblity themselves.

I agree with Dave that food producers should address the issue of making convenience foods more healthy; their response to eradicating transfats has been encouraging, and many are starting to lower salt and sugar content. But the basic issue remains. We don't need to consume convenience foods in quantity; it's a choice. There are plenty of other options .. like buying basic ingredients and cooking meals. The energy consumed in preparing them also means you use a few more calories than just opening a styrofoam box, can or packet! Education can help people make better informed choices, but ultimately it's down to the individual.

Caryl

[daveake]

Originally Posted by CarylB

I agree with Dave that food producers should address the issue of making convenience foods more healthy; their response to eradicating transfats has been encouraging, and many are starting to lower salt and sugar content. But the basic issue remains. We don't need to consume convenience foods in quantity; it's a choice. There are plenty of other options .. like buying basic ingredients and cooking meals. The energy consumed in preparing them also means you use a few more calories than just opening a styrofoam box, can or packet! Education can help people make better informed choices, but ultimately it's down to the individual.

Caryl

Indeed. The food producers are responding to public pressure, though rather slowly, but we all of course have the option of finding healthier options. For example rather than buying bread, which contains more table salt than you might think, I bake my own replacing the normal Sodium salt with Potassium salt. It's more work of course, but home baked bread is nicer and it helps keep that blood pressure down and me alive. . And whilst I've always cooked, these days it's all from basic ingredients and almost never any a pre-packed meal (I think I've had just one in the last year).

Dave

[Steve6]

Originally Posted by CarylB

No, they're not, although I agree that modifying diet may often ease if not remove the associated symptoms. Dave's beat me to it in pointing out that you're taking your own experience, which I'm not doubting, and applying it as a universal truth. You go on to describe both ADHD and bi-polar as "made up diseases", which is as baffling as it's incorrect. You're not an expert on bi-polar disease and to suggest that genuine bi-polar disease is purely food-related is just nonsense, and diminishes the seriousness of the condition for those who have it. And your suggestion that everything that you object to being in existence causes millions of suicides is a wild exaggeration in my view.

Caryl

My opinion is that ADHD and Bi-Polar are made up diseases. I mean you look at Meat Loaf's case for example, he had mental problems in the early 80s, because of drug abuse, does that make him an ADHD or Bi-Polar sufferer? There was nothing natural about it, it was the drugs. I'm sure he would tell you that himself. That was the cause for him the same way it's the cause for millions of other people around the world. But as I said before, you'll probaly get told it's natural like I was.

What I've said might not be universal truth as you and Dave have said Caryl, but there are thousands of people around the world who have gone through and are going through the same thing I am. There are two sides to every argument. You'll have people on this forum that will back up everything you have said. But then a lot of people will think I've made very valid points too. We could debate this for hours, because their so many unanswered questions in this whole area anyway. You probaly support the idea of medication, but the very real truth is; it's trial and error, because they don't know how this stuff works. But money talks, it's great that people get mental illness so they can profit from something that doesn't exist. My opinion!!!!!!

[duke knooby]

Originally Posted by daveake

You can't go banning things just because a tiny number of people react to them.
Dave

i wish you were deputy prime minister, (with jezza clarkson as leader)

[LucyK!]

How can you possibly start a sentence with "the very real truth is..." and end it with "My opinion!!!" ?

As for your comments above, if you genuinely believe that mental illness doesn't exist then that's up to you, but I'd be a lot more cautious as to how you word that, because that last statement frankly is an insult to anyone who's had even a sniff of a "mental illness".

[CarylB]

Originally Posted by Lucy!

As for ADHD, I taught a lot of children who suffered with it and I'm struggling to find the link between having/getting ADHD and diet. I agree with Caryl entirely that diet does have an impact on people with ADHD, perhaps more so than those that don't suffer with it, and cutting out the E-numbers and caffeine can drastically improve the attitude and behaviour of someone that suffers with it, but I don't for one minute think that "bad" food content can actually give you ADHD in the first place.

Nor do I think it's as simple as that with genuine ADHD in the majority of children. Unlike Steve, scientists are not sure what causes ADHD, but many studies indicate a strong genetic link. For eg children with ADHD who carry a particular version of a certain gene have thinner brain tissue in the areas of the brain associated with attention, and research has shown that this isn't permanent and as they grow up the brain develops to a noral level and the symptoms reduce. There's also evidence of a link between the condition and women smoking/drinking alcohol during pregnancy. Children exposed to high levels of lead seem to be more disposed to ADHD, which might explain why the condition has surfaced so strongly in the last 30 years, given the levels of pollution in our cities. In a small percentage it can be traced to an earlier brain injury.

Food additives are thought to be a possible contributory factor, and although sugar is widely supposed to exaccerbate symptoms, more research discounts this than supports it, and much of the evidence is allegorical and based on the effect of replacing an unhealthy diet with an across the board healthy one which improves most children's ability to concentrate and learn, whether they have ADHD or not.

The difficulty is that it's a condition that is hard to diagnose (imo many children are held to have attention deficiency may not actually have the condition, but display the symptoms for other reasons) .. and when parents decide their child has ADHD and treat solely by diet it's hard to be sure how far the resulting improvements are due to the diet solely and how far to the increased nurture and attention the child is receiving .. a bit like the Hawthorne effect in training, when behaviour changes because of observation and attention rather than because of the training itself.

Caryl

[Dave]

Originally Posted by Steve6

All symtoms of ADHD are dietary. Last November I was diagnosed with ADHD so I know what it's all about!!!!

So then you are aware that caffeine actually works as a calming agent in individuals who suffer with ADHD symptoms?

Just sayin...

[daveake]

Originally Posted by Steve6

All symtoms of ADHD are dietary. Last November I was diagnosed with ADHD so I know what it's all about!!!!

No, you don't. I wear glasses - does that make me an expert on myopia? I have high blood pressure and associated kidney disease, but I'm an expert in neither. The only thing I do know much about is how those things affect me and how in turn they respond to changes I make in my diet and lifestyle. In that regard I probably do know more about how my body reacts than my doctor does, since I live with it and he only sees me for 10 minutes every 6 months or so. What this means in practice is that ongoing treatment is a joint effort by both of us to adjust the strength and types of medication to keep the BP under control (not too high and not too low) and with a minimum of side effects. I could go on, but my point is that you can't expect any doctor to have all the answers, and that finding the best solution is something you may have to help you doctor with.

Dave

[Steve6]

Originally Posted by Lucy!

How can you possibly start a sentence with "the very real truth is..." and end it with "My opinion!!!" ?

I said the very real truth is the medication is trial and error because they don't know how this stuff works. That's the truth.

My opinion was "It's great that people suffer from mental illness, because doctors, psychiatrists, and pharmaceutical companies can make a profit from diseases that don't exist. Money talks".

Originally Posted by Lucy!

As for your comments above, if you genuinely believe that mental illness doesn't exist then that's up to you, but I'd be a lot more cautious as to how you word that, because that last statement frankly is an insult to anyone who's had even a sniff of a "mental illness".

Actually you have just insulted me with that comment. Why would I come on here and insult people with mental illness? considering I'm suffering with it now, and severely for 8 years. I even had it as a child. Honestly I think I'm entitled to word it as I see fit. I have a strong knowledge of the whole area, and I should at this stage. I would have begged for just a sniff of mental illness. I would have celebrated for week.

[Steve6]

Originally Posted by Dave

So then you are aware that caffeine actually works as a calming agent in individuals who suffer with ADHD symptoms?

Just sayin...

Caffeine works for a few hours. Like any drug it gives you a boost, and can make you addicted. But all it does is add fuel to fire, and makes your symptoms worse over a longer period.

[LucyK!]

I have no idea why you would, but you word everything in such a way that suggests that because you have experienced certain things then you know more about it than anyone else will ever know, and I stick with what I originally that I think anyone here would be insulted by your statement, given your post started with "ADHD and Bi-Polar are made up diseases" - if you're insulted by what I said then imagine how someone diagnosed bi-polar would feel about yours.

[Steve6]

Originally Posted by daveake

No, you don't. I wear glasses - does that make me an expert on myopia? I have high blood pressure and associated kidney disease, but I'm an expert in neither. The only thing I do know much about is how those things affect me and how in turn they respond to changes I make in my diet and lifestyle. In that regard I probably do know more about how my body reacts than my doctor does, since I live with it and he only sees me for 10 minutes every 6 months or so. What this means in practice is that ongoing treatment is a joint effort by both of us to adjust the strength and types of medication to keep the BP under control (not too high and not too low) and with a minimum of side effects. I could go on, but my point is that you can't expect any doctor to have all the answers, and that finding the best solution is something you may have to help you doctor with.

Dave

Dave you can't compare physical problems to mental ones. At least physical conditions can be diagnosed and treated. Mental Illness treament is flawed with nothing but trial and error. Four years ago I was diagnosed with Generalized Anxiety Disorder, and then 3 years later I had ADHD!!! I was even told I could have bipolar. Which is it???

[daveake]

Originally Posted by Steve6

I said the very real truth is the medication is trial and error because they don't know how this stuff works. That's the truth.

I know nothing about drugs for mental illness, but "trial and error" is required for any long term medication since you have to strike a balance between fixing the problem and causing side-effects, and everyone is different. This is not to say that the doctors and drug companies don't know how it works; it's saying that every person reacts differently. I changed my medication after the previous drugs caused a dry throat. It's just one of the known possible side-effects, and for whatever reason I was one of the people that reacted that way. I simply researched alternatives, spoke to my doctor about it and agreed on a replacement. Problem solved. This kind of thing is normal, not because they don't know how the old drug worked (they did) but because I was in the minority of cases where the side-effect happened.

Dave

[GDW]

Maybe it's GADADHDBP.

[CarylB]

Originally Posted by Steve6

My opinion is that ADHD and Bi-Polar are made up diseases. I mean you look at Meat Loaf's case for example, he had mental problems in the early 80s, because of drug abuse, does that make him an ADHD or Bi-Polar sufferer?

And he has never claimed to have ADHD or bipolar disorder. To suggest this condition is "made up" is simply cruel. It's a serious illness, devastating for the sufferer and their families, and there is overwhelming evidence that it can be inherited and that there is a genetic vulnerability to developing it. Diet alone is not the answer, and I have known several people with the condition who have always enjoyed a healthy diet, rarely if at all drank alcohol, who are so thankful for finally finding the right balance of medication to enable them to lead normal lives.

As to your being told you have bi-polar, I cannot comment, save to say you may have exbibited some of the symptoms, but I doubt you had the condition as such if merely eating a healthy diet had apparently eradicated it'.

What I've said might not be universal truth as you and Dave have said Caryl, but there are thousands of people around the world who have gone through and are going through the same thing I am. There are two sides to every argument.

The difference is that I acknowledge that a healthy diet has a part to play in relieving the symptoms of ADHD, often a vital one, whereas you keep trumpeting on that it's diet alone and that bi-polar disorder is a "made up" condition. I don't use multiple exclamation points either.

You probaly support the idea of medication, but the very real truth is; it's trial and error, because they don't know how this stuff works.

Again, you don't know what I support because you have just made the assumption. I have repeatedly said that diet has an important part to play. But yes, I do support medication when diet alone does not work .. as it won't with genuine bi-polar chemical inbalance. Indeed, it's trial and error, because science is still working to establsh a better understanding .. but when the right combination is found the result is close to miraculous.

But money talks, it's great that people get mental illness so they can profit from something that doesn't exist. My opinion!!!!!!

And a bizarrely ill-informed one in mine. Thank god for all the wonderful drugs that have been discovered. You're in your early 20s? No worries about dying from smallpox or polio then .. nor flu and all manner of diseases that have been either eradicated or minimised because of the work of the scientists and drug companies .. drugs to enable transplants, to reduce tumours, regulate blood pressure, to give those with alzheimers a longer better quality of life.

And yes, drugs to give those with bi-polar disorder and conditions such as schizophrenia, chronic and severe depression a chance of a decent quality of life. So many mental illnesses which for so lmany years had people confined to institutions, which can now be treated successfully. I'm not advocating the widespread prescription of mood drugs to people who just look for an easy path when life becomes depressing or disappointing, and yes, mistakes have been made along the way; the widespread prescription of valium in the 80s is a good example. But for those with severe and chronic depression they can be a life-saver when prescribed and monitored/managed well and for those with acute depression they can be helpful for a short time.

Just as with food and drink .. moderation and management and personal responsibility.

Caryl

[Dave]

Originally Posted by Steve6

Caffeine works for a few hours. Like any drug it gives you a boost, and can make you addicted. But all it does is add fuel to fire, and makes your symptoms worse over a longer period.

It is all personal choice in the end... As for me and my Starbucks... We shall be happy forever after.

[Sarge]

I'm confused. On the one hand, Steve6 stresses to have suffered from mental problems, on the other hand he claims it's something that doesn't exist. How can you actually suffer from something that has been "made up"?

[daveake]

Easy. I'm suffering from a non-existence of chocolate in the house right now.

[Sarge]

That was mean, I want chocolate now. And if I get fat, I'll blame it on daveake because he made me think of chocolate and indirectly urged me to go to the shop next door to buy some.