Verbal abuse

[Dave]

Originally Posted by R.

Then again, you all should learn to tolerate other people's opinions, even if you do not like it at all.
It simply doesn't make any sense to argue again and again in order to convince your opponent.
We all have seen that this does not work. Having said that, a little less could sometimes be a little more. Give this a thought please.

TOLERATE

That is the word I have been fishing around looking for in the past few hours.

TOLERATE

You do not have to accept what is being said, but you do need to be able to allow ceratin things to just be said without reaction.

TOLERATE

Couldn't have said it better myself R. Thank you from the very bottom of my little bat heart!!!

ROCK ON TOLERANT FANS!!!!

[Sue K]

Originally Posted by David M. Driskell

EXACTLY!!! This is what I tried to say last night. Maybe, if you feel the need to lash out about something, you should take the time to evaluate the messenger and where they generally stand on issues, then react accordingly. I have do this with the crazy news casts all the time - take into consideration what station I am watching before I accept and move on or decide to fire off an e-mail about what I just saw. Name calling never accomplishes anything. Just take a moment to consider the source when reacting to a situation.

ROCK ON MEAT LOAF FANS!!!

Please don't take offense, David, but what you are saying is probably alot easier TO say, as it's not happening to you.

Fact of the matter is that certain people have been VERY abusive towards Caryl to the point of cruelty at times. She's defended herself with dignity and at times, even with humor when she's been able to muster it. I think some would find that an almost impossiblity if it were happening to them.

It's very easy to tell others to turn the other cheek, so to speak, when it's not your cheek that is needing the turn.

It's also difficult when you've run out of cheek.

[Dave]

[quote=tink][quote="Please don't take offense, David, but what you are saying is probably alot easier TO say, as it's not happening to you.
It's also difficult when you've run out of cheek.[/quote]

Maybe it is not happening to me now, but it has happened to me in the past my friend. I have had my fair share of verbal garbage piled at my inbox - to the point of near breakdown. Sometimes if you feel people are piling up the abuse at you, it is time to take a vacation from the place that is causing you grief. I have been forced to do this from all Jim Steinman places on the internet. As much as I love Jimmy's crazy ways and amazing music, going to places his fans are at causes me pain in my heart that I just cannot tolerate at this point in my life.

ROCK ON FIRE BALL!!!

[CarylB]

TOLERATE

Fireball aka Meat Loaf said:
putdowns, Lies and just plan being angry over what I don't know I will not tolerate.

I think that covers needless verbal abuse. And like Meat I see no reason to tolerate that in any colour .. other's different views, yes. Name calling and abuse, no. Hopefully Rainer's post will signal an end to it.

However, I have no intention of taking a vacation from this place. That would be giving in to the bullies, and I am made of stronger stuff than that. :)

[The Flying Mouse]

Carol forgot to change accounts before she posted her message .

Her message is now below this one

[CarolM]

Originally Posted by CarylB

I don't think we need all to agree on everything Mrs Mouse, but this is about whether it's acceptable for a few people to verbally abuse others just because they have a different opinion, or step up and defend Meat.

I trust you're not suggesting that I should haul the cross around without comment. I have been patient, I have been courteous in my responses. I am rather tired of being the target for the kind of comments I posted at the start of this thread. And it's apparent that I am not the only one to feel it has gone too far and for too long.

im not saying we should all agree on everything,my post wasnt directed to you,it was directed to the people who think that insulting people is acceptable on a public forum,i havent got a problem with people defending themselves as long as they dont bring themselves down to the bullies level,which must be quite hard sometimes i can imagine.

Tink i suppose everyone to be one happy family is pretty unlikely, all im saying is that people should at least remain civil even if they dont agree with whats being said.

[CarylB]

Thank you Mr and Mrs Mouse .. I didn't really think you were suggesting that abuse should be acceptable .. and yes, sometimes it is hard to respond without sinking to the bullies' level. I don't think I have fallen into this trap. The reason I raised the issue was to effect some stand before I did, and before others got too discouraged.

That Rainer has signalled verbal abuse is not acceptable is something I value and respect, and trust this will signal an end to it. :)

I now see that the posts I was responding to were due to a techincal thang and not two minds that speak as but one :) .. but I guess Mouse was saying essentially the same thing earlier :)

[original sin]

umm i go out for a bite to eat and I miss so much.

Things seem to be slightly straighter now and I'm very pleased about that, I do remain concerned about some of the terminology being bandied around.
for example Tolerate - Imho we should not tolerate bad behaviour or meanness.
Personally I would like to see a lot more mutal respect and a lot more "practise what you preach", I'm fed up of the " I'll say what I want and have a right to" attitude".

From personal experience I do not hold with the theory that we should move away from bullying or unpleasantness, I have always believed in conforting my issues as that is the only way I can deal with them and live with myself.

Finally I will share something with you all that only a few know and maybe this will give you food for thought.

My 13 year old threatened to take his own life this summer due to bullying. I was too scared to leave him alone for 30 seconds for fear of what he might do. He had been driven into a deep state of despair due to verbal and physical abuse at school.
As a mother i do my best and find my self telling him things like, the offenders are immature and things will improve with age.
Then I come on here and see people getting away with (by my personal standards) some appalling behaviour and comments, and I sit back and I despair

I don't expect comformity or unity on all issues, but I do expect people to have respect and be able to put accross their point without being objectionable or personally insulting.

Family friends any group will never agree but I think Flying Mouse summed it up when he said

It also strikes me that there are those who seem to disagree/agree with certain people on matter of principle.I think this is wrong.I am personally happy to agree with a person on one thing and disagree with them two minutes later on another topic with absouloutly no hard feelings

and that my friends is called maturity

[Vickip]

Originally Posted by CarylB

.. and yes, sometimes it is hard to respond without sinking to the bullies' level. I don't think I have fallen into this trap. The reason I raised the issue was to effect some stand before I did, and before others got too discouraged.

That Rainer has signalled verbal abuse is not acceptable is something I value and respect, and trust this will signal an end to it. :)

You definitely HAVE NOT fallen into the trap Caryl .. and for that I thank you. And thank you for raising this issue .... something that should have been done a long time ago. All I can add is that I echo everything that people have said in support of Caryl ... and thank you Rainer for taking a stand and hopefully bringing an end to the verbal abuse once and for all :)

Vicki

[Dave]

***E D I T***

ROCK ON GOOD MUSIC!!!!

[Vickip]

Originally Posted by David M. Driskell

ROCK ON GOOD MUSIC!!!!

I Couldn't Have Said That better myself
Vicki

[Dave]

Originally Posted by Vickip

I Couldn't Have Said That better myself

Thank you very much. It really is all about the music to me. In most cases, I could really care less about what Meat and the band are wearing (well, maybe I am somewhat interested in what Patti has on, seeing as I do think she is "hot"), but it is about how this music makes me feel and what it does to my soul.

Few artists entire cataloge of work touches my heart the way Meat's music touches me. I could really give a flying fig if Jim, James, Webber, or even Meat himself wrote the song - what matters in my mind's eye is the musical delivery - not only Meat Loaf's voice but the entire package. I see way beyond this being a show about one man, but rather a cast of characters who all contribute.

ROCK ON EXCELLENT MUSIC!!!

[Vickip]

Originally Posted by David M. Driskell

Thank you very much. It really is all about the music to me. In most cases, I could really care less about what Meat and the band are wearing (well, maybe I am somewhat interested in what Patti has on, seeing as I do think she is "hot"), but it is about how this music makes me feel and what it does to my soul.

Few artists entire cataloge of work touches my heart the way Meat's music touches me. I could really give a flying fig if Jim, James, Webber, or even Meat himself wrote the song - what matters in my mind's eye is the musical delivery - not only Meat Loaf's voice but the entire package. I see way beyond this being a show about one man, but rather a cast of characters who all contribute.

ROCK ON EXCELLENT MUSIC!!!

I agree. I felt the "magic" the night I saw Meat sing CHSIB the first time at the Mohegan Sun this past September ... and I felt that same magic again this past weekend when I saw Simon & Garfunkel live for the first time in Atlantic City :)

Sorry ... I didn't mean to go off topic ... but I just can't get that S&G show out of my mind

Vicki

[shadow1000001]

Originally Posted by THE FLYING MOUSE

My opinion is that everyone has the right to their own opinion.Just as everyone has the right to disagree.When people resort to insults they not only make MLUKFC an uncomfortable place to visit, they undermine their own arguments.Making a coherent point with examples is one thing, but acting like a loony will only result in you being treated like a loony.It seems to me that those who throw insults round do themselves harm more than anything else.

It also strikes me that there are those who seem to disagree/agree with certain people on matter of principle.I think this is wrong.I am personally happy to agree with a person on one thing and disagree with them two minutes later on another topic with absouloutly no hard feelings.There is a world of difference between agreeing with a person,and what the person is saying.

I totally agree Mouse. I just wish that other people could see it that way



Maria

[Guppie]

Originally Posted by original sin

My 13 year old threatened to take his own life this summer due to bullying. I was too scared to leave him alone for 30 seconds for fear of what he might do. He had been driven into a deep state of despair due to verbal and physical abuse at school.
As a mother i do my best and find my self telling him things like, the offenders are immature and things will improve with age.

Thanks for sharing. I am a mother too... kids 19 and 17. I can imagine how that must feel like for a mother.

I'm probably gonna piss off the mods and admin over here but... that's what it started to look like to me here. English is not my native tongue, that's a disadvantage, but... The bully, the victim and the silent crowd...
I resent that. I refuse to be a part of the silent crowd. We are all adults here, but that picture came to mind.

I don't like what's going on over here the past few weeks as far as insults and abuse is concerned.
I read some people are afraid to say anything, concerned if they were gonna be the next victim.

I'm not. I state my case untill someone stops me.
I saw CarylB attacked recently, David a while ago... and saw some other stuff I just don't like.

I understand mods use their good judgment on different boards. I do. And if I want to keep posting here, I have to obey the rules, we all have to.

Maybe it's just me... maybe I'm not tolerant enough on the Dutch forum. Small forums are far more easy to control. But abuse like that: final warning. You do it again: I kick you out. No warning after warning, no moving to fight club... no registering again under another account, you're OUT. But that's me, and all people are different.

I don't think I've ever offended anybody on this board. And if I did, it was unintentional and I apologize.

I've never been verbally abused on this forum by anyone either. So... you could say it's not my problem.

No, for me personally, it's not. But I see what's going on and I don't like it. And I DO NOT want to be part of the silent crowd.

R and mods will decide as they see fit. I understand and respect mod's decisions. And then it is my choice not to participate anymore and that has to be respected as well. Not important, I see that too. I have great self esteem, but he he... being one of the over 700 members, one Guppie more or less doesn't count

I respect the mods. Because they have to be impartial and act on gut instinct and/or common sence. I have GREAT respect for R. The admin of a forum with this amount of members.

But in fact, each member deserves respect. And from what I've read: it isn't there.
Sorry for the long post. Just had to say this.

[Vickip]

Very well said Guppie .. you didn't offend me at all.
Thank you :) I absolutely agree with everything you've said .. except this :

Originally Posted by Guppie

Not important, I see that too. I have great self esteem, but he he... being one of the over 700 members, one Guppie more or less doesn't count

Are you kidding Of course every Guppie counts !! It wouldn't be the same without you around here :) Don't even think about leaving

Vicki

[CarolM]

David im with you. ROCK ON GOOD MUSIC, and it will always be good music from Meat.

[CarylB]

Guppie, who has imo no need whatsoever to apologise for her eloquent post, wrote:

But I see what's going on and I don't like it. And I DO NOT want to be part of the silent crowd ..... But in fact, each member deserves respect.

Not being prepared to be part of the silent crowd Guppie is what makes you the person you are, and as such one who is esteemed and valued in this forum by many of us :)

Sin had just posted:

..... I don't expect comformity or unity on all issues, but I do expect people to have respect and be able to put accross their point without being objectionable or personally insulting ....

I know something of what Sin and her family have been going through. Sadly many of us will know a family who number a child who is being bullied. As an adult I don't lose sleep over abuse hurled at me on the internet .. as Mouse has said, those who indulge in this just expose themselves for what they are. However, Sin's point about what we should be able to expect in terms of behaviour from adults, and her despair at coming to a forum she enjoys, and seeing people get away with behaviour and comments which by her standards are appalling ... this is (to quote a line from Life is a Lemon) what this is all about. In a world where some adults model abusive and bullying behaviour without reproach, some children will continue to see it as acceptable and bully their peers who are less able to shrug it off.

Meat was bullied at school. Meat clearly has a special place in his heart for children. The scars of bullying persist long after one has left childhood. We have seen how Meat reacts to what he described as "putdowns" .. they hurt him still, just as they hurt most of those they are levelled at, for let's make no mistake .. such comments are generally intended to ridicule and hurt those they are aimed at. I don't believe he would find abusive bullying behaviour acceptable in this forum, for let's be clear .. the kind of insulting comments we have been talking about here go way beyond the bounds of what could ever be considered humorous, teasing, or in any way acceptable in a society which holds any respect for the feelings of others.

Going back to Guppie's point about not being prepared to be part of the silent crowd, remember the maxim
"All that is required for evil to flourish is for good people to stand by and do nothing" ?

Some in this forum did not stand by yesterday, and I salute each one of them. And it is only when each and every one of us takes such a stand, wherever we are and whenever we see abusive bullying taking place, that we can send a clear and consistent message that this is not to be tolerated, that it is not acceptable, and perhaps gradually there will be fewer children subjected to this and their lives scarred and damaged. Because make no mistake, when verbal abuse is hurled at children it is indeed evil, and I don't believe I need add the "imo" rider to this statement, not in a world I want to inhabit.

[Dave]

Originally Posted by CarylB

Not being prepared to be part of the silent crowd Guppie is what makes you the person you are, and as such one who is esteemed and valued in this forum by many of us :)

Couldn't Have Said It Better Caryl:)

[Guppie]

Thanks, both of you.

[ChrissybabezNI]

I agree with what was said about tolerating but that I think should be aimed at the two or three particular individuals who seem to like picking someone out and chipping away and scrutinising every single word that is typed. As far as I can see it has been the same two/three people every time and out of the 700 odd people on this fansite, I think they are the ones who need to understand what TOLERATE is. They seem to have very strong views on how Meat should be supported and how we act and sometimes I can't help but question are they actually fans at all or do they just come on here to provoke? Anyway that is neither here nor there. I just hope they read all these posts and realise that people are on Caryls side here, and in no way is she the one in the wrong as we all have different ways of showing out support for Meat, and as someone quite rightly said, this IS a fansite after all, and its for fans. Please don't take anything I have said to be rude or disrespectful, thats just the way I see things. Chin up Caryl.
:)
Chrissy x

[Dave]

Originally Posted by Guppie

Thanks, both of you.

Guppie...you rock! Would you mind if I nominated you as "Board Goddess" for your wonderful personality and amazing people skills???

ROCK ON GOOD PEOPLE!!!!

[Guppie]

Yes, I'd mind because that would embarass the hell out of me

[CarolM]

Whooooooooooooooo, way to go Guppie.

[Dave]

Originally Posted by Guppie

Yes, I'd mind because that would embarass the hell out of me

LOL~!

Ya' know, my fave bartender has a chocolate martini as one of her specialties. I cannot watch her make one without thinking of my wonderous Internet friend Guppie. I think I shall have to have one this weekend and toast to level-headedness.



ROCK ON WEB FRIENDS!!!