Bat Out Of Hell Returns - Page 2

duke knooby · 16 Mar 2007, 02:54

Quote:

i can only guess monsters loose is selling on its merits.. no jim as u said doesnt matter, all thats needed is a bat title and meat vocals... unfortunatley, a redone chsib with a bat title still isnt producing the goods, so whats it gonna take??? an album with power, drama, passion, emotion, humour, production, vocals, lyrics, grandeour.. the likes of which hasnt been seen since, well, last time meat and steinman collaborated???????

now what the hell was that album called?? i know it was a marketing thing, yet somehow it worked, it was mainly steinman songs, covered by meat, with some new songs added...

**Monstro** · 16 Mar 2007, 02:56

Jeez JOOnty, chill out m8, it's only an album, ain't life or death lol

Paul191 · 16 Mar 2007, 02:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by knooby

fair point, so why arent they buying it? lack of quality? not in fashion? tell us.. please. as u point out jim is very unimportant, so why did you waste a whole post talking about how unimportant he is??

It's people like you who really get on my nerves because you just don't read. In fact i'm not even going to formulate an arguement back.... Just scroll back up the page a little and try your very, very bestest to write an answer which actually makes sense and is.... Well, accurate.... Taking into account I 'DIDN'T' waste my precious time ranting about how unimportant the big guy is.

mszee · 16 Mar 2007, 02:59

I don't know one single person who DOESN'T get on your nerves

duke knooby · 16 Mar 2007, 03:00

thats the point though, its not just an album.. not just a bunch of songs, the real bat, and its marketing ploy successor (the fabulous bat 2) are events in my life.. they mean something... oh yeah chill.. go to bed u mean, sounds like a plan

duke knooby · 16 Mar 2007, 03:00

who's the big guy?

Paul191 · 16 Mar 2007, 03:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by mszee

I don't know one single person who DOESN'T get on your nerves

And I don't know one single topic that you haven't butted your little nose in and acted as if your all in charge.

Paul191 · 16 Mar 2007, 03:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by knooby

who's the big guy?

Oh, just some random, unimportant dude called Jimmy Boy.

mszee · 16 Mar 2007, 03:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul191

And I don't know one single topic that you haven't butted your little nose in and acted as if your all in charge.

Very very accurate...thank you...couldn't have said it better myself...

**Monstro** · 16 Mar 2007, 03:03

And they're events in my life as well, just that they don't rule it

duke knooby · 16 Mar 2007, 03:05

ok, glad we got that sorted.

Paul191 · 16 Mar 2007, 03:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by mszee

Very very accurate...thank you...couldn't have said it better myself...

Pudding · 16 Mar 2007, 07:55

I haven't posted on here for a while, but this thread had me pissing my pants with laughter on so many levels

Pud

geordieloaf · 16 Mar 2007, 08:24

Ok well i'm glade i waited to post a reply. It's great to hear that BOOH is still selling well. (I think that's what this thread was about)!

**allrevvedup** · 16 Mar 2007, 13:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pudding

I haven't posted on here for a while, but this thread had me pissing my pants with laughter on so many levels

Pud

I often wonder why we take all the stuff about sales so seriously in here...I mean Meat (be it cause of annoyance or touring) isn't exactly pushing us towards buying a single, which doesn't come out for another month.

The tour is a separate thing entirely and has always been. Meat will get healthy attendences at all of his shows, because he puts on a good show in good voice or not, even if there's no album to promote.

Bar buying 27 copies of each album, single and dvd that's ever been released no one can do anymore in here.

The album hasn't sold, maybe it will in the future. Is it looking like a bad move to not have waited for Jim Steinman? At the moment yes. Has Meat done as much as he can do without Steinman for this album? I think so, he got a good producer without as many quality songs as other Bat albums have had and possibly/probably had to release this by a deadline.

Not selling 40 million copies of Bat Out of Hell III and only selling around a million won't make Meat any less a performer, especially at the age he is at.

People associate Meat Loaf with Jim Steinman...it's unusual for a songwriter to be as famous as the singer, but there you go and I also think that Meat without Jim is the same as Jim without Meat - it doesn't work as well.

**RadioMaster** · 16 Mar 2007, 16:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by allrevvedup

I often wonder why we take all the stuff about sales so seriously in here...I mean Meat (be it cause of annoyance or touring) isn't exactly pushing us towards buying a single, which doesn't come out for another month.

The tour is a separate thing entirely and has always been. Meat will get healthy attendences at all of his shows, because he puts on a good show in good voice or not, even if there's no album to promote.

Bar buying 27 copies of each album, single and dvd that's ever been released no one can do anymore in here.

The album hasn't sold, maybe it will in the future. Is it looking like a bad move to not have waited for Jim Steinman? At the moment yes. Has Meat done as much as he can do without Steinman for this album? I think so, he got a good producer without as many quality songs as other Bat albums have had and possibly/probably had to release this by a deadline.

Not selling 40 million copies of Bat Out of Hell III and only selling around a million won't make Meat any less a performer, especially at the age he is at.

People associate Meat Loaf with Jim Steinman...it's unusual for a songwriter to be as famous as the singer, but there you go and I also think that Meat without Jim is the same as Jim without Meat - it doesn't work as well.

a)
you as fan might associate M/J or J/M, but is everyone out there who knows the music of one of them doing? I think not, many people out there never heard of Jim and he (sadly) not as popular as Meat.
(not speaking of the 'real' fans like us

)

b)
Read something a few days back had the inspiration to this thought:
what would have happened, IF Meat had waited for Jim to produce Bat3?
It might had never happened or at least not the way it did now. Let's face it: Meat Loaf is getting older, and we know that Jimmy isnt really the fastest writer on the block, which gives us a superb quality of his songs, but lets us wait for them as long.
Lets say it'd had taken Jim another 3 years to finish all the songs on the album + about 1/2 year of recording.
Meat would be 63 with the release then. Do you really think that it had the same vocal quality as Bat3 has now, or worse, it even got released?
I, for myself, I'm happy with an album that is not outstanding, but still a good, if not very good (compared to the other stuff in stores) album.

c)
cant really complain about the selling numbers, as it is one of the most sold albums in 2006 here

**allrevvedup** · 16 Mar 2007, 16:57

I understand all that RJ

I just think that there were people here hoping the clock would be turned back to 1977/78 and that Meat would be the surprise package again. Not happening this time.

It's an album and it's out. I don't think it'll be remembered with as much fondness as the other two Bat albums but then that's only my opinion

Jayd · 16 Mar 2007, 17:41

There will be a few reasons that Bat 3 hasn't sold well, and maybe Jim, not being involved could be one of those reasons, but that doesn't make it the main reason, as some on here do think. Great to hear Bat 1 is back and doing well.

loaferman61 · 16 Mar 2007, 17:57

The thing as I understand it (may be entirely off-base) is that Jim was attached to the project and thus the record company was promised Bat 3. For whatever reason Jim's slow schedule was not suitable for Meat as it was. Meat didn't want to work on the album for 3 years, he has a busy life plus an acting career to tend to and even working with Desmond he had a hectic time with filming one of his movies. The record company of course wanted something to call Bat 3 and pressured Meat into delivering something with that title which caused further unpleasantness, but when the deal was signed Jim was going to be on board and that was not an issue. We ended up with the album we have which the record company has promoted very poorly, generating no large amount of airplay to drive sales. I assume as a rock artist ages the majority of them experience lower sales anyway, so combined with no significant promotion the album has been remarkable to sell what it has. I am still betting the average rock music listener knows there's Bat 1 & 2 but has no idea a Bat 3 even exists.

**allrevvedup** · 16 Mar 2007, 18:53

Yeah but there's two problems for the record company, once the hype of calling it Bat out of hell III and being the final act, the triology coming together etc They need single worthy songs to promote.

It's all coming back to me now got some half decent play (by today's standards) and then they(the record company and/or Meat) couldn't decide if they wanted Blind as a Bat or Cry Over Me as a single so that got delayed thereby ruining any momentum the album had.

So from a possible christmas release to a late february release to a now late April release, whatever hype the album was to have is slowly dying and fading to nothing.

When you have people's attention you don't just go fade into the background again, you try and keep their attention and build on the hard ground work that has already been done.

Whoever has delayed the 2nd single's release (Record Company/Meat/Meat's management) can not expect an album to flourish in the charts with zip in terms of promotion.

Why is BAT 1 selling again? Possibly because people watch VH1 classic or Biography and have maybe seen the classic albums programme on there and wanted to buy it.

That alone has given Bat 1 more promotion in the last few months then Bat III has had.

Blackkat13 · 16 Mar 2007, 19:53

Heck if you buy bat 3 at walmart you get ultiamte albums dvd with it

michael.c · 17 Mar 2007, 15:03

sadly sales do matter as record companies sign and drop any artist on sales figures. and meatloaf is no different to this, the lack of 2nd single has not helped of course , however meats upcoming european dates and the eventuall 2nd or even 3rd single release should re ignite sales of bat 3 , ( and bat 1 ) again. but after those dates and singles have come and gone , the album will then sell very slow . again poor promotion and momentum , sadly nothing has been learned after the chsib promotion fiasco. bat 2 had quick singles of rock and roll dreams and objects in nice formats straight after anything for love released and meat was well into european tour by then.

Pudding · 19 Mar 2007, 09:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jayd

There will be a few reasons that Bat 3 hasn't sold well, and maybe Jim, not being involved could be one of those reasons, but that doesn't make it the main reason, as some on here do think. Great to hear Bat 1 is back and doing well.

Out of complete curiosity, what does make the main reason?

Pud

Kev · 19 Mar 2007, 11:18

I think we're all missing something here...

I agree that to a lot of people Jim not getting writing credit won't mean a thing BUT Meat singing Jim songs is what they are used to hearing.

By that, I mean Meat singing Jim style songs. We all know a Steinman song when we hear one and we all know a Meaty Steinsong when we hear one. The public might not know who writes the songs, but they know the sound... If that makes any sense.

They were well and truly duped with 'Id Lie For You (And Thats The Truth)'. The title reads like a proper Meat Loaf song and sounds like a proper (Steinman penned) Meat Loaf song.

You listen to some of the Bat 3 songs and they're clearly NOT what people are used to hearing and don't sound like a 'Meat Loaf song'.

That same sort of format is what people like to hear.

It's not caught word of mouth like the others have. Theres nothing there that makes random people tell other random people what this fantastic track is etc.

I think the last true Meaty song was A Kiss Is A Terrible Thing To Waste. That SOUNDS like a Meaty song.

Only When I Fell had the Meaty factor, thats what made me think they should have waited for Steinman.

Not sure if any of that has come across right, but not too bothered :P

Anyway, this week...

BOOH is up on sales by 3.6%

191 - Last Week
193 - This Week
BAT OUT OF HELL
MEAT LOAF
923 - Total sales last week
3.6 Sales percentage
EPIC LABEL
COLUMBIA GROUP
SONY BMG MUSIC
92 - Weeks in the top whatever number chart
878 - CD Sales
45 - Digital Sales
504,871 - Total Sales (This is the Re-Vamped Version and NOT the standard or limited formats)

Pudding · 19 Mar 2007, 12:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by icwuke

I think the last true Meaty song was A Kiss Is A Terrible Thing To Waste. That SOUNDS like a Meaty song.

It is a great song, even if the music is by Andrew Lloyd Webber

Pud

16 Mar 2007, 02:56	#27
Monstro Promoted to Wario's spellchecker Join Date: 17.09.2005 Location: London Posts: 12,947	Jeez JOOnty, chill out m8, it's only an album, ain't life or death lol

16 Mar 2007, 02:59	#29
mszee Mega Loafer Join Date: 28.03.2006 Location: And you think you're down under??? Posts: 26,252	I don't know one single person who DOESN'T get on your nerves

16 Mar 2007, 03:00	#30
duke knooby Mega Loafer Join Date: 24.06.2005 Location: belfast Posts: 17,909	thats the point though, its not just an album.. not just a bunch of songs, the real bat, and its marketing ploy successor (the fabulous bat 2) are events in my life.. they mean something... oh yeah chill.. go to bed u mean, sounds like a plan

16 Mar 2007, 03:03	#35
Monstro Promoted to Wario's spellchecker Join Date: 17.09.2005 Location: London Posts: 12,947	And they're events in my life as well, just that they don't rule it

16 Mar 2007, 03:05	#36
duke knooby Mega Loafer Join Date: 24.06.2005 Location: belfast Posts: 17,909	ok, glad we got that sorted.

16 Mar 2007, 07:55	#38
Pudding I'm A Prize Fight Lover... Join Date: 22.10.2003 Location: New Zealand Posts: 5,532	I haven't posted on here for a while, but this thread had me pissing my pants with laughter on so many levels Pud

16 Mar 2007, 08:24	#39
geordieloaf Can't You See My Faded Geordie Jeans Bursting Apart Join Date: 25.10.2006 Location: Newcastle Posts: 1,360	Ok well i'm glade i waited to post a reply. It's great to hear that BOOH is still selling well. (I think that's what this thread was about)!

16 Mar 2007, 16:57	#42
allrevvedup "Most things that i worry about, never happen anyway" Join Date: 29.11.2003 Location: Liverpool Posts: 5,362	I understand all that RJ I just think that there were people here hoping the clock would be turned back to 1977/78 and that Meat would be the surprise package again. Not happening this time. It's an album and it's out. I don't think it'll be remembered with as much fondness as the other two Bat albums but then that's only my opinion

16 Mar 2007, 17:41	#43
Jayd If I could bust into hell....... I would Join Date: 13.06.2003 Location: Montclair, New Jersey Posts: 1,314	There will be a few reasons that Bat 3 hasn't sold well, and maybe Jim, not being involved could be one of those reasons, but that doesn't make it the main reason, as some on here do think. Great to hear Bat 1 is back and doing well.

16 Mar 2007, 17:57	#44
loaferman61 Mega Loafer Join Date: 27.03.2003 Location: In the dark Posts: 1,557	The thing as I understand it (may be entirely off-base) is that Jim was attached to the project and thus the record company was promised Bat 3. For whatever reason Jim's slow schedule was not suitable for Meat as it was. Meat didn't want to work on the album for 3 years, he has a busy life plus an acting career to tend to and even working with Desmond he had a hectic time with filming one of his movies. The record company of course wanted something to call Bat 3 and pressured Meat into delivering something with that title which caused further unpleasantness, but when the deal was signed Jim was going to be on board and that was not an issue. We ended up with the album we have which the record company has promoted very poorly, generating no large amount of airplay to drive sales. I assume as a rock artist ages the majority of them experience lower sales anyway, so combined with no significant promotion the album has been remarkable to sell what it has. I am still betting the average rock music listener knows there's Bat 1 & 2 but has no idea a Bat 3 even exists.

16 Mar 2007, 18:53	#45
allrevvedup "Most things that i worry about, never happen anyway" Join Date: 29.11.2003 Location: Liverpool Posts: 5,362	Yeah but there's two problems for the record company, once the hype of calling it Bat out of hell III and being the final act, the triology coming together etc They need single worthy songs to promote. It's all coming back to me now got some half decent play (by today's standards) and then they(the record company and/or Meat) couldn't decide if they wanted Blind as a Bat or Cry Over Me as a single so that got delayed thereby ruining any momentum the album had. So from a possible christmas release to a late february release to a now late April release, whatever hype the album was to have is slowly dying and fading to nothing. When you have people's attention you don't just go fade into the background again, you try and keep their attention and build on the hard ground work that has already been done. Whoever has delayed the 2nd single's release (Record Company/Meat/Meat's management) can not expect an album to flourish in the charts with zip in terms of promotion. Why is BAT 1 selling again? Possibly because people watch VH1 classic or Biography and have maybe seen the classic albums programme on there and wanted to buy it. That alone has given Bat 1 more promotion in the last few months then Bat III has had.

16 Mar 2007, 19:53	#46
Blackkat13 Mega Loafer Join Date: 30.07.2006 Location: Hell, Michigan Posts: 1,989	Heck if you buy bat 3 at walmart you get ultiamte albums dvd with it

17 Mar 2007, 15:03	#47
michael.c Loafer Join Date: 07.12.2004 Location: belfast ireland Posts: 96	sadly sales do matter as record companies sign and drop any artist on sales figures. and meatloaf is no different to this, the lack of 2nd single has not helped of course , however meats upcoming european dates and the eventuall 2nd or even 3rd single release should re ignite sales of bat 3 , ( and bat 1 ) again. but after those dates and singles have come and gone , the album will then sell very slow . again poor promotion and momentum , sadly nothing has been learned after the chsib promotion fiasco. bat 2 had quick singles of rock and roll dreams and objects in nice formats straight after anything for love released and meat was well into european tour by then.

19 Mar 2007, 11:18	#49
Kev Just Kev Join Date: 01.06.2003 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 1,857	I think we're all missing something here... I agree that to a lot of people Jim not getting writing credit won't mean a thing BUT Meat singing Jim songs is what they are used to hearing. By that, I mean Meat singing Jim style songs. We all know a Steinman song when we hear one and we all know a Meaty Steinsong when we hear one. The public might not know who writes the songs, but they know the sound... If that makes any sense. They were well and truly duped with 'Id Lie For You (And Thats The Truth)'. The title reads like a proper Meat Loaf song and sounds like a proper (Steinman penned) Meat Loaf song. You listen to some of the Bat 3 songs and they're clearly NOT what people are used to hearing and don't sound like a 'Meat Loaf song'. That same sort of format is what people like to hear. It's not caught word of mouth like the others have. Theres nothing there that makes random people tell other random people what this fantastic track is etc. I think the last true Meaty song was A Kiss Is A Terrible Thing To Waste. That SOUNDS like a Meaty song. Only When I Fell had the Meaty factor, thats what made me think they should have waited for Steinman. Not sure if any of that has come across right, but not too bothered :P Anyway, this week... BOOH is up on sales by 3.6% 191 - Last Week 193 - This Week BAT OUT OF HELL MEAT LOAF 923 - Total sales last week 3.6 Sales percentage EPIC LABEL COLUMBIA GROUP SONY BMG MUSIC 92 - Weeks in the top whatever number chart 878 - CD Sales 45 - Digital Sales 504,871 - Total Sales (This is the Re-Vamped Version and NOT the standard or limited formats)